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On November 03 2016 21:36 NeverUnlucky wrote:
I very much dislike mahr's last post. Too many words to state "Meta-wise, I think he's a scum-lean". And it's a meta-read.
But he gets some tryhard points for reading Outlaw just to get that one meta read.
mahr, summarize why Foreman and I are scum.
Actually what he did is the proper way to make a meta read imo. It's meaningless to say "I think player X is scum kus meta" but if you backup that meta-read with examples and reasons it becomes more valid imo.
@gell I don't believe in meta myself so I have nothing to add really. I'd say that since he just rolled scum it makes the whole "not wanting to post gifs to not draw attn to himself" thing I mentioned before stronger, but that's about it.
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On November 03 2016 21:37 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 21:30 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 21:24 Rels wrote:On November 03 2016 03:29 ExO_ wrote:
Also to clarify why I'm claiming my VT role right now:
I'm getting it out the open right now. I think in a game this size trying to fake claim to get scum to target me would be a waste of time. So I'm letting everyone know now I don't have any abilities I cannot do anything at night and can only vote. You can choose to either believe me or not, but I'm telling the truth This makes ExO very likely town Explain. 1. It is obviously anti town to seriously claim VT at the start of the game. Scum usually don't do obvious scummy things, on the contrary they try to be townie. It's WIFOM, but in mafia the simplest explanation is often the right one. 2. It removes ExO's ability to fakeclaim if he's scum, which is a great tool as scum, and even more in semi open setup like the one we're playing.
Eh, I like this thinking but I think your first point is moot since Exo stated several times that he doesn't think his claim is bad for town. I'm actually seeing more of a disconnect between how much he talked about why he claimed and yet never realized why that claim might be bad.
I suppose since this is a newbie game I should elaborate on why a VT claim is bad for town. Basically it makes mafia's side goal of killing off blue roles that much easier. If you are VT and claim it is essentially helping mafia blue hunt by narrowing the pool of people they want to look into.
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On November 03 2016 21:43 NeverUnlucky wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Calix
Town doesn't ignore other members of the town.
I'm ignoring exactly 100% of these pushes between you and Calix.
Honestly you two seem to get so emotionally worked up over how you read each other I have a hard time taking any of it seriously.
... You guys might actually make an amazing scum team.
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On November 03 2016 22:17 Skynx wrote:
I only like darth so far for making sense with his posts while keeping it short and meaningfull.
I hate TT's reads in p15 or something they are literally the worst. He deserves a vote but I'll touch on this a bit later on.
Exo's reads are quite bad aswell but less bad than TT.
Haven't read Rels yet.
Rest is bad and should feel bad for being able to spam this much and actually say nothing of worth.
I'm gona vote for a stfu lynch on the biggest filter for now before i actually get a time to read in detail cuz this shit is unacceptable.
Please, touch on them all you want.
Stop complaining that you have to read a forum based game, it just makes you look like a child.
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On November 03 2016 22:22 Rels wrote:
Skynx is looking like Tumblewood when he was scum with me and tried to play as incoherently as possible to play the "too weird to be scum" card.
Yea I could see this.
I'm not opposed to a Whiny Bitch lynch on Skynx atm.
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On November 03 2016 22:32 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 07:05 Tictock wrote:
Calix and Marghal (or w/e) are my top town atm. Mostly everything they have done has been to push the game forward and have been looking at multiple people from multiple angles.
Skynx is a little shitter for trying to imply that this early game is NAI. This is prob the least jokey start of a game I have every seen. Kinda null on him despite his early posts seeming unlikely to come from scum imo.
I kinda think NU is town but I'm not really sure why, just feels natural and relaxed I guess. In the same vein I kinda liked Dark's one post too so they are both townleaning nulls. I really don't understand how these two can be your top town. Marghell is so soft in his stances to me it screams scuuuuuum. You played with me in a game where Calix played a very, very stgrong scumgame: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/513316-newbie-student-mafia-xxiii, so I don't understand how Calix can be top town in your mind when she has done nothing incredibly townie.
Eh, those where my off the cuff reads after reading the game for the first time.
I'm fairly confident in Calix being town though. It's mostly feels based though. I saw her scum game as being fairly careful and calculated, here I'm getting a much more natural and organic vibe from all her posts and read switches.
Gell... idk will have to reread him later, but still a townlean in my gut reads.
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On November 03 2016 22:51 Rels wrote:
K I'm almost caught up but I also have to go for a few hours, afternoon is full of meetings. My reads atm:
TOWN
Foreman NU ExO
Calix TT
Skynx mahrgell DF
SCUM
See you soon!
Uhhh...
Wut?
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So... Kinda meh about Rels so far.
About the only thing I actually liked from him was the post about the VT claim.
Rels what happened to you? Your play the past few games is like your heart just isn't in it anymore.
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On November 03 2016 23:16 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 23:15 Tictock wrote:On November 03 2016 22:51 Rels wrote:
K I'm almost caught up but I also have to go for a few hours, afternoon is full of meetings. My reads atm:
TOWN
Foreman NU ExO
Calix TT
Skynx mahrgell DF
SCUM
See you soon! Uhhh... Wut? Problem? 
Yea I think he fucked up his formatting or summin.
Oh wait is it like a town to scum thing?
Pretty weak list if that's the case.
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On November 03 2016 23:35 Calix wrote:
Also I'd appreciate your opinion on Rels in that Newbie game since you were largely uninformed and all that.
Honestly I don't really recall it was a bit too long ago, I'll go skim to refresh my memory though.
Ah, yea he seemed like obv town that game due to how gung-ho he was right off the bat and his interactions with Lunatic (and lunatic flipping scum) made it super obv he was town.
I don't feel like comparing the games is a good way to read Rels though, I've seen him be lackluster as town when he doesn't have much time and super active and involved as scum when he does.
Giving it more thought I might actually give Rels a slight townlean because as scum I think he'd be more worried about how he presents his reads, here it is more like he's just sharing what he's got so far.
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I was pondering my Rels read a bit while on a walk and realized I overlooked something.
On November 03 2016 22:51 Rels wrote:
K I'm almost caught up but I also have to go for a few hours, afternoon is full of meetings. My reads atm:
TOWN
Foreman NU ExO
Calix TT
Skynx mahrgell DF
SCUM
See you soon!
What makes you townread Foreman?
In other news I see Skynx decided to start playing the game and I'm not hating it so far.
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On November 04 2016 00:51 Skynx wrote:More badness cuz of word limit Tictock Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 07:00 Tictock wrote:
Ok more or less caught up.
Exo and Foreman seem like the obv scum team to me atm. A little less sure on Foreman, but eh w/e.
Exo is prob scum for his reaction to Calix's questions as well as him dropping the gif stuff. Calix was right to ask him why he dropped his "I'm gunna post in mostly gifs" kus the most likely reason why he would drop that plan is if he rolled scum and decided it would draw too much attn to himself. I think the fact the he only posted the one gif kinda supports that as well.
Exo's push on Calix is pretty BS too, saying she is scum for "trying to get him to post gifs" is just stupid kus there is no way that is what she was implying. Not to mention that I don't think Calix would ever do that as scum either.
After arguing with Calix a bunch all he did was call me scum for my one liner open. Seems like the obv lynch to me.
##Vote: Exo_ Exo is scum with Foreman Exo is scum for overreacting to a bad push > No, he had right to do that, he got voted by someone else plus the guy making the push didn't vote for him and said he is not even scumreading him. He has to retaliate here otherwise people will accuse him for not going after shitty pushes. Exo is scum for dropping the gif stuff > So you actually suggest him trying to be pro-town implies he did it because he rolled mafia is absolute OMGUS. Exo is scum for shitty push on Calix > I can sort of agree with this cuz it was badly worded. However this is quite bad as Exo's push is not indicative of Calix' alignment as regardless of the retaliation, Calix' push was bad and he stepped back from it and should be pushed for it. Nothing about Foreman this is literally the worse case ever Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 07:05 Tictock wrote:
Calix and Marghal (or w/e) are my top town atm. Mostly everything they have done has been to push the game forward and have been looking at multiple people from multiple angles.
Skynx is a little shitter for trying to imply that this early game is NAI. This is prob the least jokey start of a game I have every seen. Kinda null on him despite his early posts seeming unlikely to come from scum imo.
I kinda think NU is town but I'm not really sure why, just feels natural and relaxed I guess. In the same vein I kinda liked Dark's one post too so they are both townleaning nulls. "pushing the game forward" here means voting for wrong and weak and meaningless reasons that are not there. what does this even mean? Can you like quote some stuff indicating why them two are town? Cuz i see nothing. Middle ground on me, calls me shitter, unlikely to come from scum, in the end null. If above two are town for pushing the game forward by a clear margin for you, why am I not an as clear scum for doing the absolute opposite?? These don't make any sense. Two lists of opinions about people after a long silence and they are all meaningless/wrong.
##Vote: Tictock
And you called my post on Exo the worst case ever.
Exo is scum for overreacting to a bad push > No, he had right to do that, he got voted by someone else plus the guy making the push didn't vote for him and said he is not even scumreading him. He has to retaliate here otherwise people will accuse him for not going after shitty pushes.
This is pretty out of context. First Calix saying she wasn't scumreading him has nothing to do with his defense since Calix said that much later (I also have no issues with her pointing out something she doesn't like, calling it illogical or w/e, and then not scumreading the person for it. I actually shows deeper thinking imo). Second, of course anyone is going to defend themselves, it's about how they do it. Exo took 2 questions from Calix as some kind of immense pressure to make him post gifs (what?) and called her scum for it. That's overblown no matter how you look at it.
Exo is scum for dropping the gif stuff > So you actually suggest him trying to be pro-town implies he did it because he rolled mafia is absolute OMGUS.
I stand by my assessment. Him changing his stance from "I'm gunna post gifs and have fun" to "I'm gunna claim VT and get all serious about shit" is far more likely to come from someone who rolled scum and doesn't want to draw attention for posting mostly gifs.
You clearly don't know what OMGUS is.
Middle ground on me, calls me shitter, unlikely to come from scum, in the end null. If above two are town for pushing the game forward by a clear margin for you, why am I not an as clear scum for doing the absolute opposite??
You could be, but similarly to my thinking on Exo your early play was openly drawing attn to yourself which is not usually what scum want to do. I alluded to that somewhere.
These don't make any sense. Two lists of opinions about people after a long silence and they are all meaningless/wrong.
How does any of that make me scum?
And long silence? How are you going to accuse me of taking a long silence when you've spent the whole first half of the phase just complaining about reading and only now getting around to posting substance...
![[image loading]](https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQkHi3nsGJ8AucnLED6W693XXtwW7HEPAWRC1uV2yHryDFu2Cxv)
Your other post was decent, but you can stay floating in null/scum territory for this.
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I should be around for most of the day, but going to mostly just check in every couple of hours or so from here on out as I work on other stuff.
Exo and Skynx are my top picks for lynch right now.
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Responding to Darth,
Why do you "like this thinking" if you admit that his first point is null and you don't respond to the second point? If it's all null or NAI, what is there to like?
The 2nd point was what I liked.
Ticktock says two lines before that you shouldn't compare games with Rels, because of his variability, then gives him a slight townlean based off of what can only be characterized as meta analysis off of previous games. Why would you think his scum play is likely to play out one way or another when you've just admitted that he has various playstyles?
I was mostly just saying comparing that game to this one prob wasn't a good way to try and read rels. The other point is my opinion of how Rels plays, take it or leave it, it's speculation hence why I said it's weak.
Not trying to rehash everything, but IMO saying it's illogical for town to do something, worded in that way, implies a mafia lean to some extent. TT, can you explain, how it shows "deeper thinking" and why that deeper thinking indicates Calix to be town?
Kus it's really easy for scum to go, "Thats illogical! Contradiction! Scum!" but as we all know town acts illogically and contradict themselves plenty often. Trying to find out what caused that by asking questions is that deeper thinking, not pigeon holeing someone based off one silly thing (see Exo or Foreman's push on Calix for examples there).
The green implies that TT should be townreading Skynx, and maybe even ExO for doing things "mafia normally wouldn't do" (i.e. drawing attention to themselves early), yet he flips in the next paragraph to saying his opening was scummy for being silent? You can't have it both ways.
I was saying he stays in the null scum/territory for me kus of the overall post, not just that last point. A lot of his reasons for scum reading me felt disjointed and the last bit was all BS. How were my reads wrong (especially when he brought up similar points to me on people)? And why would my reads being "wrong" make me mafia? etc etc
You might ask why I don't have the same reaction to your post here, but I just get the sense that you don't get my way of thinking/posting rather than putting things together that don't make sense (like the "long silence" thing).
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On November 04 2016 02:44 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 23:59 Tictock wrote:On November 03 2016 23:35 Calix wrote:
Also I'd appreciate your opinion on Rels in that Newbie game since you were largely uninformed and all that. Honestly I don't really recall it was a bit too long ago, I'll go skim to refresh my memory though.
Ah, yea he seemed like obv town that game due to how gung-ho he was right off the bat and his interactions with Lunatic (and lunatic flipping scum) made it super obv he was town. I don't feel like comparing the games is a good way to read Rels though, I've seen him be lackluster as town when he doesn't have much time and super active and involved as scum when he does. Giving it more thought I might actually give Rels a slight townlean because as scum I think he'd be more worried about how he presents his reads, here it is more like he's just sharing what he's got so far. Ticktock says two lines before that you shouldn't compare games with Rels, because of his variability, then gives him a slight townlean based off of what can only be characterized as meta analysis off of previous games. Why would you think his scum play is likely to play out one way or another when you've just admitted that he has various playstyles? Again, I disagree. I consider the first line to be a metaanalysis on activity (= you cant meta him on activity).While the second is more of an analysis on general town/scumtraits. Imho you are just tunneling here, and try to spin things so they fit your foregone conclusion.
Yea this is a fairly accurate interpretation of what i was saying.
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On November 04 2016 02:48 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 02:43 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 02:28 darthfoley wrote:On November 04 2016 01:53 NeverUnlucky wrote:
Perhaps you have reads you would like to share? c: Sure I think Foreman is most town to me. My pyramid thing would go something like this TownForeman NU, Calix, Skynx Rels mahrgell, ExO, TT MafiaI have Rels null because he's yet to really engage the thread besides an early read pyramid. I want to hear why he "hated" my post, among other things. Can I get Calix's and your opinion of each other? I'm pretty sure you are townreading each other, yet continue to bicker and harp on the same points. I'd also like to hear what you think of Ticktock If you got "Calix and NU town-read each other" and "bicker and harp on the same points" at this point in time from us then you haven't been reading. I think he's mafia. I'm currently ignoring him until I'm prepared to re-evaluate him since he might just be a shitter. As you may have gathered, it's difficult for either of us to form an impartial read on the other. Also he irritates me and I'd rather play the game without dealing with that. "I think he's mafia, so I will ignore the posts he makes that could make me think he's town." NICE. VOTE THIS. I took my time (Scarce resource for me atm) to properly respond to her shitty cases without being toxic, and that's her answer. IGNORE.
NU, I suggest you actually do the same thing as Calix said she was doing.
Take a step back, go do something else. Come back to the game and ignore Calix for a bit.
Re-evaluate when you are less likely to jump on the OMGUS train or just stay confirm biased.
Right now you are just blowing up every little thing you take issue with and are warping what was said to fit your thinking.
Calis didn't say "I think he's mafia, so I will ignore the posts he makes that could make me think he's town." she basically said, "I think he's mafia but I want to ignore his posts for now so I can evaluate him later more objectively"
Like I've said a couple of times already the two of you get so riled up over how you treat each other it makes half of what you say meaningless.
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Like I've said a couple of times already the two of you get so riled up over how you treat each other it makes half of what you say meaningless.
Especially when most of it basically boils down to stuff like this...
"He put words in my mounth! That scummy bastard!"
"OMG how can she scum read me, that scummy bitch!"
"He said an illogical thing! Scum!"
"She is ignoring me! Scum!"
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On November 04 2016 03:26 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 02:28 darthfoley wrote:On November 04 2016 01:53 NeverUnlucky wrote:
Perhaps you have reads you would like to share? c: Sure I think Foreman is most town to me. Please explain. I'm rarely "most town" on sites I play regularly, so this feels off with no explanation.
This post is actually a pretty decent reason to consider Foreman town.
Scum pretty rarely question why people townread them, it's kinda counter productive for them.
It's obv not foolpoof, but I'm finding myself considering Foreman more and more towny.
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On November 04 2016 04:30 ExO_ wrote:I didn't like his filter and trust skynx
I thought you were gunna actually look at stuff not just sheep someone.
I R dissapoint
Least my vote is in the right place.
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On November 04 2016 04:44 Calix wrote:
I maintain that Rels is a good lynch to be honest.
TT seems to have arrived, however. Let's see if he blows me away with some super-townie posts or whatever.
Nope.
On November 04 2016 04:46 Calix wrote:
I'd like TT to clarify his reads on ExO and Skynx, especially with reference to that "attention-seeking" thing. I found that hard to follow.
Ok.
Skynx's early posts:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 03 2016 04:12 Skynx wrote:
Man you guys are way too fun to read On November 03 2016 04:50 Skynx wrote:
None of what happened so far is AI guys please... On November 03 2016 04:54 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:53 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:50 Skynx wrote:
None of what happened so far is AI guys please... Then do something that will make AI posts happen. What is the point of sitting around and complaining that people are making early reads exactly? What is the point of spamming bunch of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with anything other than increasing postcount for people that are not here yet?
Exo's:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 03 2016 03:02 ExO_ wrote:
I'm VT lame Not including the Gif post On November 03 2016 03:11 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:08 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:06 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:04 Calix wrote:
NU's boring. Nothing new to see there.
ExO, should I be asking why you're not 'largely communicating in gifs'? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're not, but I'm curious as to what made you change your mind. ![[image loading]](http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq303/neko_riddles/Fighting_Over_Marisa_From_Touhou_Pr.gif) So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do. You think it's illogical for me to immediate claim VT before posting a gif? Give me a break. If anything your attempt to get me to revert to gif posting only and now trying to throw shade on me is indicative of your scum alignment On November 03 2016 03:15 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:12 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:11 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:08 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:06 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:04 Calix wrote:
NU's boring. Nothing new to see there.
ExO, should I be asking why you're not 'largely communicating in gifs'? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're not, but I'm curious as to what made you change your mind. So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do. You think it's illogical for me to immediate claim VT before posting a gif? Give me a break. If anything your attempt to get me to revert to gif posting only and now trying to throw shade on me is indicative of your scum alignment Please point me to where I 'attempted to get you to revert to gif posting only' if you'd be so kind. You'll note that I specifically said 'I'm glad you are not posting in gifs' (which you then responded to...with a gif...instead of a response) And yes, it's illogical for town to claim a role and then post a gif in lieu of a coherent response. If you were actually happy I wasn't posting gifs, why would you bring up the fact that I said I would post primarily gifs? I think any reasonable person realizes that's much more likely to get me to post gifs, than to offer an explanation that will ultimately be irrelevant to the game. You brought it up in the hopes that I would stick to my word and posts only gifs, instead of helping town. You are scum ##vote Calix
Skynx starts off complaining, and when called out responds with similar attitude.
Exo claims, makes a gif post, then gets all defensive and aggressive about your questions. Takes that into a serious mode by turning it into a case on you.
Skynx continued his bad posting even after getting called out. Exo immediately got upset you called out his not posting gifs and got super defensive about it.
I'm amazed you guys even try to draw a comparison here, there is a very clear difference in their opening play.
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EPT
