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On November 05 2016 02:59 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:57 ExO_ wrote:On November 05 2016 02:56 Rels wrote:On November 05 2016 02:53 ExO_ wrote:On November 05 2016 02:50 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 02:47 ExO_ wrote:
Calix/Skynx any questions you have please ask me, before I flip as town please ask now. I will try my best to answer quickly. I'm 100% sure you two are town and the people like NU trying to discredit Skynx are almost certainly going to be scum Yeah, can you please summarise/ conclude your reads in one post? I think that would help people see what your reads were. You can even just cobble your previous posts into one since you have 10 minutes left. This is something I'm not very good at. a lot of my reads I base on what I think, and researching specific examples is hard. I think out of TT/Rels/NU there is at least 1 scum. Maybe 2. TT or rels should have known better than to let this lynch go down like it did, and instead both pushed it hard. I would look at them heavily. NU's game has just been really bad all around, hard to say if its because he's bad or because he's scum though. I didn't like the way mahgrell played, and the way he's afk now but I think he's something to look at after the top 3. DF is townier than mahgrell. Foreman is angry town I'm tired of seeing this. I only started pushing you as my main scumread a few hours ago. You even scumread me for not having a strong scumread on you yesterday. That makes another thing that is not consistent with your reads actually. I'm having doubts but I think you'll flip scum. I don't think i'll shennannie. again, distancing himself just like TT. Look very very very closely att TT/rels. they're both experienced and they both should've known this was a bad lynch. If you're town, you can go fuck yourself.
I feel like this is unnecessarily aggressive as a response. What about ExO's post was that objectionable?
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Can't really say that was a surprise after that EOD.
I'm going to go and colour-code that host vote-sheet thing and then I'll be doing some rereading of ExO's posts.
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On November 05 2016 03:04 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:59 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 02:59 Rels wrote:On November 05 2016 02:57 ExO_ wrote:On November 05 2016 02:56 Rels wrote:On November 05 2016 02:53 ExO_ wrote:On November 05 2016 02:50 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 02:47 ExO_ wrote:
Calix/Skynx any questions you have please ask me, before I flip as town please ask now. I will try my best to answer quickly. I'm 100% sure you two are town and the people like NU trying to discredit Skynx are almost certainly going to be scum Yeah, can you please summarise/ conclude your reads in one post? I think that would help people see what your reads were. You can even just cobble your previous posts into one since you have 10 minutes left. This is something I'm not very good at. a lot of my reads I base on what I think, and researching specific examples is hard. I think out of TT/Rels/NU there is at least 1 scum. Maybe 2. TT or rels should have known better than to let this lynch go down like it did, and instead both pushed it hard. I would look at them heavily. NU's game has just been really bad all around, hard to say if its because he's bad or because he's scum though. I didn't like the way mahgrell played, and the way he's afk now but I think he's something to look at after the top 3. DF is townier than mahgrell. Foreman is angry town I'm tired of seeing this. I only started pushing you as my main scumread a few hours ago. You even scumread me for not having a strong scumread on you yesterday. That makes another thing that is not consistent with your reads actually. I'm having doubts but I think you'll flip scum. I don't think i'll shennannie. again, distancing himself just like TT. Look very very very closely att TT/rels. they're both experienced and they both should've known this was a bad lynch. If you're town, you can go fuck yourself. I feel like this is unnecessarily aggressive as a response. What about ExO's post was that objectionable? The whole idea that I have 0 reason to push him and that I'm bad and should know better fuck you exo
He wasn't calling you bad. He was saying that one/ both of you/ TT are scum because you thought it was a good lynch and since you two are experienced, that means that one/ both of you are pushing a mislynch on purpose.
From the perspective of a wagoned townie, that makes sense to me and I don't see why you'd take issue with it since he was calling you mafia, not bad.
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On November 05 2016 03:04 Calix wrote:
Can't really say that was a surprise after that EOD.
I'm going to go and colour-code that host vote-sheet thing and then I'll be doing some rereading of ExO's posts.
Scratch the first part. Too many links to see what I'm doing.
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On November 05 2016 03:08 darthfoley wrote:
Also kind of over Rels taking it personally every time he has a major hand in a mislynch and the mislynched person is mad at him. Unless he's mafia, which wouldn't classify this as a mislynch
Why do you think Rels had a 'major part' in ExO's ML? TT was clearly the one driving that while Rels popped in later after ExO was an established wagon.
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On November 05 2016 03:09 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 03:08 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 03:04 Calix wrote:
Can't really say that was a surprise after that EOD.
I'm going to go and colour-code that host vote-sheet thing and then I'll be doing some rereading of ExO's posts. Scratch the first part. Too many links to see what I'm doing. I'll do it for you. What do you want green and red?
I just wanted ExO/ Calix highlighted green since those are the confirmed alignments to me.
But don't bother. Better to do it after the night kill tbh.
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So I think we should take TT into consideration more. I'm wary because he just led a ML and I'm not sure wherever scum!TT would do this. After all, people will naturally focus on the person who had yelled for ExO's head the entire day and only had one scum-read and scum don't want attention.
However I find TT's reluctance to see ExO's actions from a town perspective prior to the lynch to be suspect. He ignored Rels' earlier point about ExO's VT claim and kept making generalisations about ExO's play at EOD.
(also salty/ biased because his tinfoil theory against me was absolute crap)
So I am not a fan right now.
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I'm really annoyed at myself right now.
I was actually correct with my initial town-read on ExO (even if crappy) and I talked myself out of it. That's so fucking irritating.
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Alright, finished looking through ExO's filter.
He was a bit frazzled at EOD and his reads shifted quite rapidly (understandable) so it's hard for me to pin down the finer details of his reads but it's obvious that he hard town-read Calix/ Skynx, town-reads Foreman and thinks 1-2 scum are among TT/ Rels/ NU at the very least.
I've copied some quotes of his. I'd like some comments on them 
+ Show Spoiler [TT VT claim] +On November 04 2016 05:58 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 05:55 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:53 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 05:49 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:44 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 05:41 Calix wrote:
Foreman, can you give your thoughts on Skynx' wall-posts?
As for ExO, I missed #600. I'm not sure I agree. He says "I think ExO is scum but if he isn't then he's only a VT and is useless so he can die"
He thinks you're scum, ergo you're lying about being VT. All he does is rule out the possibility of you being TPR. I don't see inconsistency here. Or I'm lying about being VT to get scum to not mess with me on day 1. However look at the way he posts. He knows I'm only VT. You need to learn to read between the lines. Mafia are never going to come into the thread and announce they are mafia How would scum!TT know that you, the town!ExO, is telling the truth and that you're not a TPR exactly? I don't follow the "he knows I'm only VT" part. He wouldn't. However, he would had no problem killing me if he's scum (especially if he's scum and suspect I'm a power role). Does this make sense to you or do I need to break it down entirely? ELI5 I'm running into a problem that is rare for me - I have way too many town-reads. Needless to say, I'm having a hard time here. Scum TT knows who his scum buddy is, and who is town. He sees I claim VT. He knows that by killing me he'll either kill a VT (in which case he can claim "he was being worthless for town and it was good to get him out now, blah blah blah), or he'll kill a town power role and again blame it on my play. He claims that I'm either scum or VT. This is a call that nobody who is town will make. Because if a town player believes my VT claim then I cannot be scum. However if a town player doubts my VT claim then I might be power role and they might not wanna lynch me. The only people who would want to lynch me right now for the logic TT is presenting, are scum.
This might become a valid argument now that we know that ExO was town.
+ Show Spoiler [Foreman town-read] +On November 04 2016 07:42 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 07:36 Rels wrote:
ExO, the only thing that keeps me from tunneling you into oblivion is your explanation of the VT thing. Please answer me about why your foreman read changed without reason between now and yesterday because if I was scum and foreman, I wouldn't be half-assing it like he is. I check to make sure what I'm posting lines up with everything else posted so far. If he's scum and not reading something he's directly posting about then it's poor scum play imo. The tone of his posts comes across as lazy half-assing towny rather than scummy to me
(here for future reference)
+ Show Spoiler [Foreman 'intimidation' point] +On November 04 2016 09:06 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 09:04 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 08:59 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 08:58 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 08:55 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 08:53 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 08:51 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 08:48 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 08:42 ExO_ wrote:
NU is actively borrowing his reads for rels in an attempt to push me, with Marhgwell being 3rd on a wagon.
Marhgwell is scum, and probably NU I disagree with both of your scumreads. Mahrgell's flip on me looked like an honest reassessment. If he was scum, he could have accused me of AtE and used my reach out as grounds to double down on me. NU... I don't get why you think he's scum. What do you think of Mahgrell voting me without giving his reasoning just now? What about NU literally taking the words out of rels mouth as a reason to push me, even though rels didn't see it as a reason to scum read me. foreman read the damn thread. And do something to help town. What did this post accomplish here? What did you disagreeing with me (in a bad way) accomplish? N O T H I N G My bad, let me be more productive, then. ##Vote: ExO_ for what reason? Why do you think I'm scum? You're flat out lying about me and attempting to intimidate me, for one thing. For another, your scumreads are trash and consist of two people pushing you. Because y'know, the entire scum team is going to throw everything they have into a d1 mislynch. how exactly am I lying about you? or attempting to intimidate you? Aren't you supposed to be mr.coldnotaffectedbyonlinepersonalities guy No, I'm Mr. Distantandunintentionallytreatpeoplelikepixelsuntiligettoknowthem guy. You are lying about me doing nothing in my disagreement with you. Before you say you weren't, be a pal and quote where i stated my thoughts on Mahrgell's flip prior to that post. Otherwise, admit that you were simply trying to intimidate me into thinking I was being worthless. ...what? are you delusional? Like legitimately are you delusional? Nothing I've done has been even close to intimidation. And nothing I've done has even been close to lying. You're literally bordering on actually being delusional
While ExO town-read him, I think this post is interesting because it's an example of Foreman being hyperbolic with poor reasoning.
+ Show Spoiler [TT read progression read] +On November 04 2016 14:36 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 14:30 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:11 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:09 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote:
But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) Thats actually kinda my point, town!Exo could have said the same things, or started posting gifs to joke around. What did we see? Him getting butthurt that you called him out for not posting Gifs and attacking you for it. Starting a discussion is EXACTLY what town wants to do. And its exactly what I did. Implying that I wouldn't do that is town is at best misleading. What I did drew a lot of attention to me, you really think thats what I would do as scum? Instead of posting a few gifs and joking around a bit? please. Lynch TT its so obvious at this point Cute... but you really never did anything with that now did you? On November 03 2016 15:11 ExO_ wrote:
I'm tired. I just got home. I don't feel like reading through the read. But I'll tell you my thoughts in a nutshell from the point I left.
I jumped on to Calix initially and continued to pressure him(her?) long after I thought she was scum. I do think the way he entered the thread was dumb and likely to inflame me. But his responses afterwards seemed very much from a towny perspective. I continued the pressure to see who would jump on the bandwagon with me in an attempt to press low hanging fruit.
I'll look at it tomorrow, but NeverUnlucky/foreman are both going to be the first people I look at. Your follow up to this was voting me kus you liked Skynx's case and think he is a cool guy. Now it seems like you've forgotten you even scumread me. On November 04 2016 08:42 ExO_ wrote:
NU is actively borrowing his reads for rels in an attempt to push me, with Marhgwell being 3rd on a wagon.
Marhgwell is scum, and probably NU And apparently everyone who is voting you is also scum, so your reads are just OMGUS. On November 04 2016 09:16 ExO_ wrote:
Darthfoley/Skynk have the shortest filters and might be good places to look as well. Going off filter length NU/Calix shouldn't be scum because they are so far and above everyone else. I'd find it hard to be posting that much as scum Which is now effectively half the game being thrown in for good measure. I guess Skynx is also not a cool guy anymore either. you are cherry picking my filter, without following any of the progression of it. Why? I think you are trying to tilt me. It's not going to work
Need to reread the chat to see if ExO is onto something here so I'll just leave this here for now.
+ Show Spoiler [Skynx town/ meta read] +On November 05 2016 02:48 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:47 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 02:45 ExO_ wrote:
Okay I'm back home I'm going to try to type things out as fast as I can.
CALIX listen to me. Skynx is town. There is no way he comes in and town reads me at EoD as scum. It's too risky. You two need to lead the town here While I can conclude that the white-knighting accusations would draw attention to him because he is black-sheeping, surely that can be dismissed with WIFOM, no? If you are town then it's similar to what he did last game with Lunatic. Do you have any other reasons to town-read him? I don't think it's like what he did with lunatic. Not on Day 1. Not like this. And I don't think he'd make the same play back to back like that. It's not smart. Also he wasn't the first person to really start pushing that luna might be town. Here he comes in at the very end saying I might be town. Its too risky as scum. He is not scum, do NOT let the others convince you he is
+ Show Spoiler [Reads list] +On November 05 2016 02:53 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:50 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 02:47 ExO_ wrote:
Calix/Skynx any questions you have please ask me, before I flip as town please ask now. I will try my best to answer quickly. I'm 100% sure you two are town and the people like NU trying to discredit Skynx are almost certainly going to be scum Yeah, can you please summarise/ conclude your reads in one post? I think that would help people see what your reads were. You can even just cobble your previous posts into one since you have 10 minutes left. This is something I'm not very good at. a lot of my reads I base on what I think, and researching specific examples is hard. I think out of TT/Rels/NU there is at least 1 scum. Maybe 2. TT or rels should have known better than to let this lynch go down like it did, and instead both pushed it hard. I would look at them heavily. NU's game has just been really bad all around, hard to say if its because he's bad or because he's scum though. I didn't like the way mahgrell played, and the way he's afk now but I think he's something to look at after the top 3. DF is townier than mahgrell. Foreman is angry town
(last two quotes here for future reference)
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On November 05 2016 03:38 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 03:34 darthfoley wrote:Mahrgell is always talking about what he's gonna do: he's been supposed to look into me, skynx and TT 18 hours ago. On November 04 2016 09:23 mahrgell wrote:On November 04 2016 08:29 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 04 2016 08:26 mahrgell wrote:
Okay, finished reading up on Exo.
##Vote Exo_
Writing up my reasoning in a bit.
So far I have 2 more players on my todo pile: DF and Skynx. I will probably try to squeeze those in some time after sleeping and between family ^.^ Would you kindly summarize what your reads now look like? My more recent and confident ones: Scum: Exo_ Neut: FM Townlead: Calix, NU, Rels I want to reevaluate TT, Skynx and DF next. DF posted a lot of stuff, and it seemed to not match my image of him and at some point he went completely off when accusing me. But I may be biased on the stuff he writes about me, so I have to reread his filter and I will probably focus on the stuff not concerning me to make my judgement. From first impression I would tend scumlean though.I hope to ind time tmrw for it. Skynx is Neut in my mind so far, mainly because I didn't pay much attention to his posts besides the onne paragraph directed at me. From memory he posted mostly useless stuff early, but later had 2 wot against me and 3 other players. Then his TT case. I will focus on those. (I actually wanted to do that earlier... but somehow kept busy) TT I would townlean from memory. But I want to check the case made against him. If I currently Neut Skynx, while having a scum+scumlean, this would make Skynx by process of elimination a townie and his case must have some substance. Also iirc Exo jumped on it. If it was completely fabricated, this would mean the the entire scumteam went allin here... Then again, Exo jumping on it actually makes TT and Skynx look better. But this is now too much speculation, and I will warm this up once we have a flip. Anyway... I just want to read TT again On November 04 2016 09:43 mahrgell wrote:
Thanks @Calix
With that I will now finally go to sleep. As time may be rare tomorrow, who do you suggest to look into first out of TT,DF and Skynx?
I guess you are valueing Skynx highly, so could you maybe give me a summary how you came to this? And then I would start with one of the other two. Probably DF, as TT seems to be tied to skynx. DF seems to be upset with me though and I don't feel like revenge reading ^.^ I doubt anything useful will come from his. On November 05 2016 02:45 mahrgell wrote:
Okay, I just made it back and finished reading up. I see no reason to change my vote. Exo's posts past my case have ust reinforced my impression further. I guess we see him flip and continue from there. I finally want to dive into Skynx/DF and TT. ^.^ Should be doing that before this nights Habs game if family doesn't keep me busy. Otherwise I for sure will have it done before end of the night.
At this point I'm actually a bit surprised how I'm suddenly everybodys darling. I guess I want to look i this progression too, as I feel kinda buddied here.
Then again... lets flip Exo first... This certainly will provide interesting information. How many times can you say you're gonna filter dive before you do it? Why are you asking other people who you should look into? Why is mahrgell claiming he would be "revenge reading?" He town leans me, so why would looking through my filter be useless? These posts were made 18 hours ago, and 1 hour ago. I DO NOT LIKE Dig deeper my friend. I announced yesterday afternoon that I'm with my family from yesterday evening until saturday noon. Yes, I had another posting spree in the night, when I sneaked away. Still my activity is drastically reduced compared to the first 26 hours right now. Expect me back tomorrow as noon. And you may also continue reading up on peoples lists. I appeared as toptown and close to toptown on several lists. And I don't consider this to be a good thing, tbh.
Why don't you think that's a good thing?
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On November 05 2016 03:48 darthfoley wrote:
Damn it mahrgell i was hoping you wouldn't post something pro-town
Because now you have to fake re-evaluating your reads? 
I agree that mahrgell's post is extremely townie though. He's basically saying "I want to be taken seriously and don't like people using the noob card on me" which is the exact opposite of what scum in his situation would do imo.
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How do you know that HTS is the scum coach though?
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I'm not even sure if we're allowed to discuss this but meh.
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On November 05 2016 03:53 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 03:51 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 03:48 darthfoley wrote:
Damn it mahrgell i was hoping you wouldn't post something pro-town Because now you have to fake re-evaluating your reads? I agree that mahrgell's post is extremely townie though. He's basically saying "I want to be taken seriously and don't like people using the noob card on me" which is the exact opposite of what scum in his situation would do imo. Yes, I agree. I'm also somewhat between slightly and kind of annoyed that as soon as ExO flipped, almost everyone peaced
Feel free to comment on my ExO post.
I actually think TT might be mafia here. This is mostly because he never ever considered ExO's posts from a town perspective, didn't re-evaluate, has no real scum-reads outside of ExO, etc.
I'm also biased by meta because I read this game where he was stuck in a tunnel on SL and even then, he stepped back and was like "yeah I am tunneling" and tried to see his posts from a town POV but just couldn't. And there's none of that there. He just wanted ExO dead.
I'm going to reread it now and I'm aware that it's meta, but it's not a bad point imo.
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On November 05 2016 03:54 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 03:52 Calix wrote:
I'm not even sure if we're allowed to discuss this but meh. We're not. We can't even know if one of the noobs rolled scum. It was a joke.
If I see 'it was a joke' from you again, I'm going to throttle you.
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I really hate it when everyone just fucks off after I claim to have a scum-read.
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I would just like to say that Skynx's "ExO is town because of how he retaliated against the pushes against him" logic stretches back a long way. I'm in TT's filter and in Skynx's TT case, he criticises TT for scum-reading ExO because "he had right to do that, he got voted by someone else plus the guy making the push didn't vote for him and said he is not even scumreading him. He has to retaliate here otherwise people will accuse him for not going after shitty pushes." This means that Skynx didn't just randomly invent a reason to town-read ExO.
Also TT's point about "scum not wanting to draw attention to themselves" still doesn't make any sense. He town-reads Skynx for it (but retracts it later because 'he's self-aware about it being his town-meta'). This 'logic' leads to this delightful piece of wankery:
On November 04 2016 05:23 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 05:09 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:04 Tictock wrote:
Actually didn't someone mention that Skynx said he tries to open scummy to see who goes after him?
If that's true then I have to throw out my line of thought about his early game. Clearly scum!Skynx would try to replicate that type of play from his towngames. Eh? Your first line is correct. Skynx claims that he acts scummy to see who goes for the low-hanging fruit as a town tactic. Your conclusion is making me scratch my head. I don't see how learning about Skynx' play-style -> thinking he'd replicate it as scum -> entrance posts are null. Because I was giving his early posts a townlean because he was drawing attn to himself and scum tend to not want to do that. However if Skynx has an established meta (and more importantly is self aware of it) of playing scummy at the start of the game to draw attention then my initial thinking no longer applies. Scum!skynx would go out of his way to act scummy at the start simply to replicate that aspect of his townplay. And thinking about it more this was it would make Skynx's early posts make more sense if he is scum trying to replicate his bad start of day play. Stuff like calling the entire early game NAI, and complaining about reading constantly make a bit more sense coming from scum trolling than town trolling. However this is prob a line of thought that only makes sense to me.
The logic is absent. There are only assumptions to be found.
(also the last line hedges on his theory because even he knows how utterly moronic it is. I'm only noting this because he's been doing that hedging thing a lot)
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@Tictock
He also scum-reads ExO because 'he didn't want to draw attention to himself by only posting gifs'
What's the issue here? He somehow thinks that ExO overreacting to my question, being overly defensive and lashing out at me is something that...will NOT get ExO a shit-load of attention...?
He has to think that. Why?
- He scum-reads ExO.
- He claims that scum don't like attention and that ExO didn't post gifs because he didn't want attention.
- Therefore he has to think that ExO's reaction was intentionally designed to not get attention onto ExO.
Here's what I found:
On November 04 2016 06:09 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote:
But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) Thats actually kinda my point, town!Exo could have said the same things, or started posting gifs to joke around. What did we see? Him getting butthurt that you called him out for not posting Gifs and attacking you for it.
How does anyone think that attacking me and getting salty are things that won't draw attention to ExO?
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On November 05 2016 04:49 NeverUnlucky wrote:
To be fair you've ignored Foreman and I before, so you have no right to complain now.
So instead of posting anything relevant to my case, you make an empty post. Okay.
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On November 05 2016 04:52 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 04:51 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 04:49 NeverUnlucky wrote:
To be fair you've ignored Foreman and I before, so you have no right to complain now. So instead of posting anything relevant to my case, you make an empty post. Okay. Will make a proper response later, just to be busy to read your case atm
I can see why Skynx wants you dead. You just posted for the sake of posting.
Piss poor play if you're town.
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EPT
