[M][N] Presidential Election Mini Mafia - Page 14

On June 30 2016 05:56 Superbia wrote:


I feel his ego is already drastically reduced. x;

On June 30 2016 06:09 Jean Valjean wrote:
I'm also seriously contemplating just saying fuck it and playing like a normal person

On June 30 2016 06:13 Tictock wrote:


Eh, it's possible but I think that game you are reffering to was one of Tumble's first games?

His play has evolved quite a bit over time... though by that same thought it's possible he's playing a fairly solid scum game.

On June 30 2016 20:35 Jealous wrote:
I can't deny that he played well in D2. However that is pretty WIFOM for me because it could just be a good player under pressure trying to go down the list of "What would a townie do in my case?" or it could be an actual townie under false pressure. The main problem I have is that if Damdred isn't scum, then who is?

I don't think TT is, as of now. I think that the cases on Jean and Superbia are similar from what I've read so far, so that is a confusing ordeal because if one of them is scum then either one of them is playing an incredible scum or one of them is playing a bad town. I think we can assume the former to be true. Superbia has shown himself to be a clever player in both games so far; Jean has shown himself as a much more transparent and open player. If I had to decide between the two of them, I'd go with Superbia. However, I'd really need to dig in his filter to find any evidence to support this inclination because from the D1 filter read I did on him and what I recall from N1/D2, I haven't seen anything overly scummy from him. This is now on my to-do list.

Artanis was my only other pick besides Chezinu. Why? Perhaps there is more than "meta" behind his townreads on people. If Damdred were to get lynched yesterday and he made that long and almost exceedingly townie-toned post about why Damdred would be town, then he would get a lot of credit and whoever pushed Damdred might be in the spotlight. This is the perfect scenario for scum - divide the town between the people who wagoned Damdred and those that did not, with him being the leader of the "did not" party. Of course, only scum or cop would know for certain that Damdred is not scum. If Artanis was scum, it'd be very wise of him to counter-argue a strong case that I built against Damdred with "meta" and nice formatting to basically say "Damdred can't be scum, he is super town," and in this scenario WHEN and not IF Damdred flipped town, Artanis could use this as leverage as both a case against anyone who voted for him (especially me) and as a defense against anyone who questions him ("But if I was scum, wouldn't it make sense for me to allow town to mislynch Damdred?"). This is all circumstantial and by no means confirmed; I still need to lynch Damdred to see how it plays out, but if he does flip green I want everyone to be aware of this possibility.

So, Skynx, who to you is scum then?

On June 30 2016 21:44 Jealous wrote:

No, I'm saying that your townread on Damdred might truly be valid in your eyes, or you might just be trying to take a stance on him that automatically excludes the people who don't have your experience with him. Essentially you are appealing to a certain subset of the town population and excluding the other, forcing a divide between the two. Whether this is intentional or not, I don't feel comfortable taking your word as gospel on the matter without substantiated evidence within this game. Essentially, you are asking newbies to trust you, whom they do not know well as a player, about your analysis about Damdred's meta, whom they also do not know well. Try to see it from at least my perspective, as I cannot speak for others. If you came into a game that hinges on deception, would you feel comfortable trusting the guy saying "I've been here before, I know you're new but trust me on this one?" This isn't Diablo 2 where you can trust Deckard Cain and Akara to not stab you in the back, this is more like Skyrim where the NPC at the bar will poison your drink and leave you in some temple halfway across the world under the pretense of a drinking contest.

I'm not willing to devote hours into reading previous games just to catch up on meta reads, that's just not a reasonable request in my opinion. Also, doing what you say in order to trust you more is the same as a prisoner determining his own punishment; you're naturally going to propose the avenue that is most beneficial to you but not necessarily the one that is most objective. In other words, make a case for why Damdred can't be scum along the lines of what I did, within the confines of this game as opposed to an argument that has prior knowledge as a prerequisite.

Also, I know you said you don't want to discuss reads (can you explain why, by the way? I don't think I understand your explanation because newbie), so maybe this is more up your alley in terms of meta:

You and others have used the argument that "Damdred/X/Y would have already given up if they were scum in this scenario." What players do you think would not give up in this scenario? Would you give up?

On June 30 2016 22:19 Jealous wrote:

At first I thought this was a great metaphor and got me to understand your side of it completely. However, even though the moon is white the majority of the time, it is still yellow when it appears yellow, it is still red when it is red, it is still black when it is black. In reality, the moon has no color. Color is a subjective, human perspective. The moon merely reflects the light, angle of light, or lack of light shone onto it, and we attribute color to it based on the ways our eyes perceive a small portion of the light spectrum. Even a moon that in your experience of 27 days appears as one color, at least one day out of the lunar month it will be a different color. Replace day with game. In other words, I find your absolute lack of faith in Damdred's ability to change his play given the circumstances to be pretty complacent and potentially just as myopic as my unwillingness to see the things I've dug up as anything but scummy.

I see, that makes sense. I was going to pose a question to the town as a whole asking something along the lines of, "if the person you suspect as scum were to lynch anyone, who do you think it would be?" and I came to the same realization: anything said in response would simply be a confounding factor when the NK does come, so I didn't post that ^^

On June 30 2016 23:04 Jean Valjean wrote:

I have probably written more words than you. I just consolidate my posts.

There's probably a way to figure that out.

On July 01 2016 04:30 Skynx wrote:
Who's around? I'm gona post big stuff soon.

On July 01 2016 04:54 Damdred wrote:
It's an MMO so probably would die no?