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On April 27 2016 03:52 gumshoe wrote:also, you realize this Show nested quote +I've admitted the case on SL was much more to keep discussion ongoing instead of really pushing him. is a bad thing right? You understand that scum like to make faint cases against each other right? Clearly you do, as you attacked ls for a faint case early on. Show nested quote +Wow, suddenly gumshoe is likely town. After you were suspicious of his vote. A quick shift from the original suspicion. I don't like it. mang, its like your hacking off fingers to replace to fix your nose / :
It's exactly what you do every game when you're town ROFL
Also, just to be clear, I was NEVER against lynching SL, I just knew the case was weak to grant a lynch on him for solely that
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On April 27 2016 04:03 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2016 03:57 GlowingBear wrote:On April 27 2016 03:52 gumshoe wrote:also, you realize this I've admitted the case on SL was much more to keep discussion ongoing instead of really pushing him. is a bad thing right? You understand that scum like to make faint cases against each other right? Clearly you do, as you attacked ls for a faint case early on. Wow, suddenly gumshoe is likely town. After you were suspicious of his vote. A quick shift from the original suspicion. I don't like it. mang, its like your hacking off fingers to replace to fix your nose / : It's exactly what you do every game when you're town ROFL Also, just to be clear, I was NEVER against lynching SL, I just knew the case was weak to grant a lynch on him for solely that I never make faint cases bro, I go all the fuck out XD when I make a case I do it cause I think there scum. when I voted damdred I thought he was scum, but his answer assuaged me, your lazy hole pocking does none of that for me now also there was a point where sl was very close to getting lynched, and you showed up conviniently right after that window. And regardless of what you say about sl, what the facts state is that you let him slip. No explanation now can fully fix actions that happened then / : hence my lack of me reconsideration during our current discourse.
You DO realise I made a legit case that I simply thought it was weak to grant a lynch?
And you're saying that I, as scum, see my partber getting lynched and do nothing to change that scenario, but then when he isn't getting lynched I show up just to... Rant on the lynch. Yeah.
So you think I should evaluate Koshi considering an agenda and that's how you evaluate tbings and how
People with minimal understanding of the game evaluate things, but when you're evaluating me, you don't have to consider an agenda.
I'm done talking to you, you are Mafia, period.
If anyone has questions to me regarding any of those points discussed, feel free to ask. I'm voting no one else today. And if you want to lynch me, fine. Just lynch gumshoe tomorrow
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On April 27 2016 03:47 Half the Sky wrote:6/40 Show nested quote +On April 26 2016 06:32 Half the Sky wrote:
GB being mislynched a shittonne does not give any indication for his play now. He fakeclaimed in Firefly yes, but I don't believe he did jack all in Outlaw. Fakeclaims are done for specific reasons when they aim for the objectives needed (to draw a blue, to divert a lynch, etc) and someone fakeclaiming or not does not and should not ever vindicate them. There's a ridiculous amount in GB's filter that indicates several problems including
(1) lack of followup day 1 reads,
(2) lack of engagement (or delayed engagement) with Koshi, he throws the names he does night 1 and I engage him first on Koshi when I discuss my phobias but he doesn't touch him until Koshi calls him on on this day 2.
(3) the dropped read on SL day 1.
(4) softpushing from sicklucker day 1 ("I'd lynch GB a little from his posts....and then selective reasoning on me when I was going to get lynched)
(5) his post highlighting why I was mafia was terrible in that it completely ignored arguments that were already made
(a) saying my posts are convoluted does not make me mafia when I explain them a bazillion times, furthermore that is parroting from Koshi one day later Damdred was confirmation biasing HARD but at least I could tell he was town based on interactions with other townies.
(b) Second it was VERY reasonable and not suspicious to surmise that a low-activity player was mafia, GB basically framed something that was townie (or at worst null) and framed it as mafia agenda. That behaviour itself is mafia driven. Read post 583 again if you don't understand.
(6) Softpushing from GB on DYH (see post 583) - he says DYH makes him uncomfortable, but what does he do about it? Nothing. He doesn't even engage him or change that read when he and DYH both vote Koshi. In post 628 you will see
(7) GB's push on Koshi makes no sense (through post 623). Koshi clearly explained why Shape was underwhelming compared to GB and that was based on the metas he had for both players. He def focused on some people more than others and he did use the argument too scummy to be scum, which was wrong on sicklucker...and he did the same for gumshoe. But it's a read that whilst bad is not exclusively mafia. Alright, GB, let me go through point by point here. I want to see your responses, if any. (1) I had issues with these, and when I tried to engage you on Koshi you didn't engage. You brought these names up without any followthrough and the way you wrote it, it looked like you were trying to see whether they would stick. Relevant quotes here. Show nested quote +On April 22 2016 11:03 GlowingBear wrote:
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Nevermind damdy. I think you're town so it is no use to argue on something that won't lead anywhere.
Do you think I'm town? I wanna bounce some thoughts with you if you're willing to trust me.
What are your reads atm? I really have a feeling that we have mafia between koshi/gumshoe/LS. Do you have any reason to disagree? Show nested quote +On April 23 2016 05:47 GlowingBear wrote:
For what reason you think Koshi and LS are town, damdy? You explained subsequently in pursuing Koshi, but where did the LS/gumshoe reads go? (2) you've explained a little better just now in why you had an issue with Koshi, because you're sort of semi-metaing him as logical and you thought he had an agenda. Okay, moving on. (3) The first thing (you'd see it in my filter here) that drew attention to you was how your SL read dropped. This looks really bad to me particularly when he's flipped mafia. Relevant quotes as follows (spoiler): + Show Spoiler [quotes] +On April 21 2016 02:11 GlowingBear wrote:
4
Ok since SL never answered me, I must say I don't like his posts
He has an opening calling Damdred "null" (the only thing I can understabd from bolding a name) because damdred was wasting posts. This is bad because:
1) It is impossible to have contentful posts in the beginning of the game
2) Calling someone null is saying something someone did is not alignment indicative, which means (I) he is wasting a post because he is saying nothing contributive, and (ii) he is trying to look contributive while saying nothing at all.
Wanting to lynch LS in the beginning of the game for wasting posts just reinforces this perspective On April 22 2016 03:04 GlowingBear wrote:
I know the case on SL isn't the strongest. Although I think his attitude was suspicious, I only wanted to keep developing discussion. I also like to push a target in a way everything is explained in details, whatever slignment he is, because I think mafia has a hard time covering all aspects of their stories. Regardless if a post is NAI or AI, a hard push will almost always reveal inconsistencies if the player's intention is made up Post-lynch - On April 22 2016 11:03 GlowingBear wrote:
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Nevermind damdy. I think you're town so it is no use to argue on something that won't lead anywhere.
Do you think I'm town? I wanna bounce some thoughts with you if you're willing to trust me.
What are your reads atm? I really have a feeling that we have mafia between koshi/gumshoe/LS. Do you have any reason to disagree? (4) I'm going to skip 4 because this was on SL, but when I take this and your read on SL dropping, to me it looks like both of you are trying to tread around each other (5) You said my posts were convoluted and considering the argument you had against Koshi - let's take a step back. I directed you to Post 583, and I tried to illustrate to you that I wasn't JUST looking at VCA, I was also looking at general thread activity and a few other things to make the suggestion I did. Now that DYH has flipped mafia, does that make you reconsider your read in any way? Also speaking of reconsidering reads, you also had Fidei in your lynch list. What about that read?
Ok.
On SL: I thought his posts were suspicious, so I've called him out. I do those kind of things on every game because I always try to develop discussion. It doesn't mean, however, that it was a strong case that I would use as grounds to any lynch. Then I had to be and entire day AFK, and when I came back, I tried to do a big catch up post. In that catch up post I found informational stuff that led me to believe gumshoe and LS were Mafia (and to be fair, I don't even remember what it was). I saw nothing else from SL because I could read only until page 6/7 at that time.
Then I only came back two minutes before deadline to see a lynch that, by VCA, looked like it was going to hit town. I didn't have time to do anything.
I simply forgot about SL. Just like that. Because I thought I saw way more important things to pursue. And as I saw a clear fownie in Damdred, I tried to chat with him so we could work together.
Now, sometimes I reevaluate stuff but I don't state it in thread. LS was one of that reevaluartion. I scum read him almost every game, and Damdred correctly reads him almost every game. So I took Damdred's word for granted. I know I have my limitations as a player, and working together is really important to me when I have a strong town read I trust
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On April 27 2016 03:47 Half the Sky wrote:6/40 Show nested quote +On April 26 2016 06:32 Half the Sky wrote:
GB being mislynched a shittonne does not give any indication for his play now. He fakeclaimed in Firefly yes, but I don't believe he did jack all in Outlaw. Fakeclaims are done for specific reasons when they aim for the objectives needed (to draw a blue, to divert a lynch, etc) and someone fakeclaiming or not does not and should not ever vindicate them. There's a ridiculous amount in GB's filter that indicates several problems including
(1) lack of followup day 1 reads,
(2) lack of engagement (or delayed engagement) with Koshi, he throws the names he does night 1 and I engage him first on Koshi when I discuss my phobias but he doesn't touch him until Koshi calls him on on this day 2.
(3) the dropped read on SL day 1.
(4) softpushing from sicklucker day 1 ("I'd lynch GB a little from his posts....and then selective reasoning on me when I was going to get lynched)
(5) his post highlighting why I was mafia was terrible in that it completely ignored arguments that were already made
(a) saying my posts are convoluted does not make me mafia when I explain them a bazillion times, furthermore that is parroting from Koshi one day later Damdred was confirmation biasing HARD but at least I could tell he was town based on interactions with other townies.
(b) Second it was VERY reasonable and not suspicious to surmise that a low-activity player was mafia, GB basically framed something that was townie (or at worst null) and framed it as mafia agenda. That behaviour itself is mafia driven. Read post 583 again if you don't understand.
(6) Softpushing from GB on DYH (see post 583) - he says DYH makes him uncomfortable, but what does he do about it? Nothing. He doesn't even engage him or change that read when he and DYH both vote Koshi. In post 628 you will see
(7) GB's push on Koshi makes no sense (through post 623). Koshi clearly explained why Shape was underwhelming compared to GB and that was based on the metas he had for both players. He def focused on some people more than others and he did use the argument too scummy to be scum, which was wrong on sicklucker...and he did the same for gumshoe. But it's a read that whilst bad is not exclusively mafia. Alright, GB, let me go through point by point here. I want to see your responses, if any. (1) I had issues with these, and when I tried to engage you on Koshi you didn't engage. You brought these names up without any followthrough and the way you wrote it, it looked like you were trying to see whether they would stick. Relevant quotes here. Show nested quote +On April 22 2016 11:03 GlowingBear wrote:
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Nevermind damdy. I think you're town so it is no use to argue on something that won't lead anywhere.
Do you think I'm town? I wanna bounce some thoughts with you if you're willing to trust me.
What are your reads atm? I really have a feeling that we have mafia between koshi/gumshoe/LS. Do you have any reason to disagree? Show nested quote +On April 23 2016 05:47 GlowingBear wrote:
For what reason you think Koshi and LS are town, damdy? You explained subsequently in pursuing Koshi, but where did the LS/gumshoe reads go? (2) you've explained a little better just now in why you had an issue with Koshi, because you're sort of semi-metaing him as logical and you thought he had an agenda. Okay, moving on. (3) The first thing (you'd see it in my filter here) that drew attention to you was how your SL read dropped. This looks really bad to me particularly when he's flipped mafia. Relevant quotes as follows (spoiler): + Show Spoiler [quotes] +On April 21 2016 02:11 GlowingBear wrote:
4
Ok since SL never answered me, I must say I don't like his posts
He has an opening calling Damdred "null" (the only thing I can understabd from bolding a name) because damdred was wasting posts. This is bad because:
1) It is impossible to have contentful posts in the beginning of the game
2) Calling someone null is saying something someone did is not alignment indicative, which means (I) he is wasting a post because he is saying nothing contributive, and (ii) he is trying to look contributive while saying nothing at all.
Wanting to lynch LS in the beginning of the game for wasting posts just reinforces this perspective On April 22 2016 03:04 GlowingBear wrote:
I know the case on SL isn't the strongest. Although I think his attitude was suspicious, I only wanted to keep developing discussion. I also like to push a target in a way everything is explained in details, whatever slignment he is, because I think mafia has a hard time covering all aspects of their stories. Regardless if a post is NAI or AI, a hard push will almost always reveal inconsistencies if the player's intention is made up Post-lynch - On April 22 2016 11:03 GlowingBear wrote:
22
Nevermind damdy. I think you're town so it is no use to argue on something that won't lead anywhere.
Do you think I'm town? I wanna bounce some thoughts with you if you're willing to trust me.
What are your reads atm? I really have a feeling that we have mafia between koshi/gumshoe/LS. Do you have any reason to disagree? (4) I'm going to skip 4 because this was on SL, but when I take this and your read on SL dropping, to me it looks like both of you are trying to tread around each other (5) You said my posts were convoluted and considering the argument you had against Koshi - let's take a step back. I directed you to Post 583, and I tried to illustrate to you that I wasn't JUST looking at VCA, I was also looking at general thread activity and a few other things to make the suggestion I did. Now that DYH has flipped mafia, does that make you reconsider your read in any way? Also speaking of reconsidering reads, you also had Fidei in your lynch list. What about that read?
Regarding (5), I didn't look at him and to me fair when I said your posts were convoluted I was being hot headed against you. And sorry, sometimes I skip your long posts when they are too long lol. Sorry for being lazy.
Fidei on my pool was when I was considering only VCA. He didn't hammer DYH if I remember correctly? I don't really have reasons to scum read him other than not remembering anything relevant coming from him
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This is my post 27. I have to consolidate. Please if you want me to explain anything, pretty please, consolidate in one post and I'll answer it properly.
HTS, still regarding SL: this is self meta, but... When I'm scum I mostly never attack and drop a scum read on them. I push that bus until the very end or I simply never attack them. I NEVER do something like attacking and forgetting them.
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28
HTS, I actually said I had no reason to scumread Fidei other than his play being very forgetful in this game.
By the way, I've been thinking about HTS and I believe that the way she is approaching the game, especially the situation between me and gumshoe, makes her very likely to be town.
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29
I must say, although as weird as it sounds, that I'm starting to believe TT is the last Mafia.
Does anyone understand why?
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On April 28 2016 04:22 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2016 04:21 GlowingBear wrote:
29
I must say, although as weird as it sounds, that I'm starting to believe TT is the last Mafia.
Does anyone understand why? Why don't you tell us?
I think his reads are kinda disconnected. I remember him calling me town for pushing SL and I thought it was weird because I'd expect the opposite reaction but it didn't get my attention atm
But him making a huge case on fidei and not pushing it further, and not having a clear opinion on me and gumshoe... Makes me wonder
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On April 28 2016 06:07 Tictock wrote:
Bah idk, on the one hand GB is a good lynch for suddenly going "Hey I think TT is scum, do you know why?" and I'd also be pretty happy to mess up his record as scum.
On the other hand I really can't say with and confidence that I believe Shape to be town.
...
So I guess I'll vote GB.
If you all lynch me we should still have plenty of time to work this out so no worries.
All for me, I'm out till well after deadline.
Rofl
You've called ME town the whole game and now that I called you Mafia you dropped your case on fidei and is gladly voting me
It is TT, guys.
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By the way, as I said before, Wednesday's are horrible to me. I've been here for as long as I can
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People are too hard on themselves. Game was far from being bad. All townies were active and contributive. If they were wrong regarding the last scum, well, too bad. It doesn't mean bad play tho.
HTS was townie, TT was townie, Koshi was townie after day3.
I think it's totally fair that we overlooked Shape for bussing his two partners. Especially when he hammered DYH for no reason whatsoever. The probability of Mafia doing that is low.
Again, stop being harsh on yourselves. Game was good. Most of times we LISTENED to each other, and that's not very usual in a Mafia game these days.
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EPT
