EPT[M][Cap] Tortoise Mafia - Page 2
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
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gumshoe
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On April 22 2016 23:08 Half the Sky wrote: 29/40 Also gauging their interactions with each other and in the context of the end of day voting, I am also of the opinion that there is one mafia between Tictock and gumshoe (expand quotes for the fuller picture) I think it would be more accurate to say were just not both scum together. I am playing beneath my standards this game so I'm not shocked that people find shit I do scummy so it is possible that tick tock is town. Weve also never played together before and historically players in games with me for the first time tend to find me scummy. but yeah if one of us flips scum, it's safe to say the other is town. But not the opposite. In general though I feel like this lynch was between 3 townies(ff hts sl), hence all the jumping around and lack of agendas. Scum probably just did not care about todays kill, so it's hard to read into it, but I will say this, the timing of shapes vote(last on to ff) makes me think hes town. Him sort of rushing onto ff as if his train was about to leave the station is townie cause i I doubt scum would be so eager to jump on a green flip when theres no danger of scum dying. Conversly Damdred jumping off the ff lynch to jump onto hts little bit before the flip seems like he may have wanted to distance. but I am not as sure about that as the shape vote, I just dont see scum abandoning their pet accusation to hop onto what they know is a mislynch. | ||
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gumshoe
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On April 23 2016 03:44 Damdred wrote: i'm working on my eon post currently and don't have a ton of posts but i'll answer anything in the meantime. 1) LS don't make things between you and HTS. You are tunneled at worst at best shes scum but I don't think what you are pushing her for exactly make her scum. I'm still thinking if shes scum but i'm pretty sure you are town so just chill and look at other people atm. 2) As for you GB yes I have a feeling you are town right now, as for those three I think all three are town. which spoils my post later on whops. 3) Its not distancing so much to move off a lynch thats going on 100% of the time. Kind of a null thing either side could do it. And shape had to vote was the easiest wagon, his response to his own vote and not really doing anything about it was a little worse I think. I agree that what you did could easily just be you trying to salvage what you thought was a bad lynch But shape was already on sl, he coulda just kept screaming for his head instead of just jumping onto what was gonna be an obvious green flip if was scum. That and his posting doesn't actually offend or anything so if nothing else I feel it's safe to assume he's town. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On April 22 2016 09:30 Fidei86 wrote: Can we give this guy a fucking medal for least convincing flip contrition? Jesus Jokes on you, I'm an Alomancer. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On April 23 2016 06:10 LightningStrike wrote: Okay so Shape's reason for switching seems odd. He wanted to lynch SL but decided to switch to FF despite the fact that he didn't like the swing of votes to FF and his defence for it was kinda poor too. Gumshoe reason for voting FF was he disliked FF's wasted post style but he was scumreading TT even more and claimed it was because TT wouldn't get lynched that he voted for FF. Although I do still think he's town it just odd. Koshi didn't like FF early on but then took his attention to HTS,Me, and DYH only to trust his early read on FFand seems to trust Koshi a little much. Seems calmer than my last game with him idk why is but seems like it. @Shape: What are your reads atm? @Gumshoe: Why you thought it would be a waste to push for the lynch of your choice EoD? Koshi: What are your reads atm? My comp was acting frizzy yesterday, couldn't make a big case so didn't feel comfortable pushing someone who was trying a lot harder than me sans qoutes and good formatting. Especially when my day 1 is not particularly reliable to begin with. Also I didn't hate FFs odds of flipping scum, def wasn't gonna vote sl or hts. | ||
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gumshoe
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This changes a lot about the day 1 lynch so hopefull there's stuff to find there. Damdred flip does not suprise, but he was pushing hts pretty hard, so it's interesting that scum chose to take that pressure off her. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
So scum must have ether a) been actively jeopardized by him enough they risked the shot or b) saw that he was so off the trail they figured killing him would further their cause and remove a solid townie at the same time. This of course pertains to the alignment of one tumble weed, damdreds prime case and the reason I assume for the risky shot onto him. Going by the effective case work so far deaddam and liveskies and the type of scum team the death of sl seems to imply we're dealing with, I think the obvious reasoning of starlord being shot to buy some space for a reeling scum team seems fair. So yeah I see no reason to get fancy, I'll take a tumble today. ##vote tumble | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On April 23 2016 11:59 Tumblewood wrote: I like HtS's associative D1 reads post, but besides that I hate to inform you that you're not lynching me today no matter how shitty or lazy my play is. + Show Spoiler [proof] + On April 22 2016 06:59 Tumblewood wrote: Voting sicklucker? I don't know why everyone switched all of a sudden. Going now but will be back just before deadline. On April 22 2016 07:40 Tumblewood wrote: NO gdi why did you all sheep me. Told you not to but you just wouldn't listen. Shape/hts/gum on the tail end of the wagon... Usually i'd say there's one scum on the wagon but there might be two. Running out of phone battery though but will definitely be here before EoN1 (probably tonight though) On April 23 2016 06:54 Tumblewood wrote: Don't care about conserving posts because I have so many right now. Even with one post per two minutes they wouldn't run out by eon anyway SL is probably the one looking weirdest to me atm damdred looking even stronger gumshoe is looking a little better on mobile, will be useful tomorrow though amazing how inconsistent one's capitalization can get without anyone noticing damn it's going to be nice to be a potential nightkill for once Umahgod that's amazing, your incredible and I look so baaaaads XD kill me now plox, I'll just put out some reads before I die and it'll be ok. Seriously I could not have fucked up worse, just just put me out of my misery please. ##unvote Also pretty sure tic is town, all his points on me are solid honestly, his lung thing was just the only scummy thing I saw at the time but honestly he's just not that scummy besides that ##vote gumshoe | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On April 23 2016 12:25 Tictock wrote: Yea... that seems like a pretty solid claim. ##Unvote TumbleDood Although I'm mildly upset that his means I should relook at things. .... Well I should but I'm just gunna vote gum. This kinda reeks of TMI and mafia sided thinking. Mafia sided thinking here in Bold. Evaluating Blueness of Damdred and focused on potential of KP blocking. I also don't like as part of the reason why he wanted to lynch tumble. Plus I already pointed out how Gum was lapdogging towards Damdred EoD so him doing it again here doesn't impress. Ima level with you, I'm am putting like 20 percent effort into this game and no comp sucks, Though there is absolutely no reason to give me a pass for that as those words were literally parroted by sl... Who was scum..... Who I town read for said words and then hopped off...... Oh my god this is amazing, my lurk meta would have looked better than this XD | ||
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gumshoe
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On April 23 2016 13:07 Tumblewood wrote: wtf gumshoe you didn't have to go full beggar mode there's still like 40 hours good use of a post ls hey gumshoe here's another land mine for ya: do you imply by this that you think hts is scum[mier]? OH MAH GAWD MORE SHELLS YAAAAY Also dont worry, I'll def throw out as much as I can regardless, but yeah I really feel like dying today, this is just the worst string of luck bad play I have ever combined. I was implying hts was a bit scummy yes, but then I saw the case damdred put out onto tumble and thought he was the one that killed for pressure relief. Now that thats not the case I'm kinda coming back around to hts as scum / : (cause thats def gonna help not get me killed XD) I will review her filter, she may very well have killed damdred to destroy the one big townie who could be a threat to her / : then pinned that scenario onto tumble, (even though he was coming around to town reading her after) sigh duck ALL I KNOW IS SHAPE IS TOWN, ALL HAIL SHAPE. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On April 25 2016 01:36 GlowingBear wrote: 16 Gumshoe are you there? I want to ask you a few questions. Soup, | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On April 25 2016 02:04 GlowingBear wrote: 17 Actually it was nothing, I was just checking if you were looking at the thread but not doing nothing to fight your lynch. Thank you for your attention. kewl : D as for fighting my lynch, it doesnt matter what I say, I've fucked up enough that theres always going to be some doubt and I dont want that bringing town down. I made the mistake of signing up for a game off the high of another, I've done that before but I simply did not learn my lesson then, without the actual will to devote the effort. None of that matters though, because the dude with that very excuse was scum and given my role in saving him no amount of effort on my part should ever clear me in this position. gg good luck town. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
there is simply no caveat, it would be hypocritical of me to tell town not to kill me when I fulfill all my own lynch requirements. 1) seemingly uncaring of the game 2) tied to scum 3) no real pushes or cases against anyone. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On April 25 2016 02:22 Tumblewood wrote: yeah, as genuine as this seems, I don't ever want to take someone to LyLo like this. too many question marks, and there'd always be that question in the back of my mind, "was that concession fake?" BUT, you can salvage this, gumshoe. if you are town, use your position as future confirmed townie to leverage your reads. I hate to see townies give up like this because I know you can still be useful. yeah dont worry writing stuff up now : D but at this point yeah, if players like tick tock and gb wind up bieng scum, they can fill days just accusing me over and over. But im not convinced tick tock at least is scum, so I dont really want to push him back. If I die, it'll force scum to adapt, which they dont ever have to atm because they will always have valid arguments against me as I am actually super duper scummy this game. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
Seeing a few arguments about people being underwhelming, it's a poor argument to have been made <10h into the game, but that's just me. SL, DYH, GB based on their openers are all people that I'd need to see more content from. SL in particular has both active and lazy town and scum metas. Note the bolded, she lists a bunch of names, some of which must be town, but directs our attention to sl, basically saying, look at this guy, he deserves scrutiny. It's not all out bussy, it's like shes asking other people to keep an eye on him which is not at all scummy as if she was intending to buss all out, she would probs do so herself to ensure cred. This matters because hts is a dominant force in thread and she knows that, when she directs people to look at someone, they are likely to do just that. It's a detail, but an important one methinks. ------------------------------------------------ Oh also theres been some questions as to why I focused on the nk wifom stuff so much, the answer is sheer laziness. An nk is a really easy thing to theorize about even without that much thread info. I talked about it alot cause I couldn't be assed to really dig into the game. -------------------------- ls The way ls tried to shape up the lynch to be between him and hts is the opposite of scummy, he is definitely one of my top towns and an uptick in typical activity (especially non blatant spam activity, ls has at least 6 very large decent quality wots) is usually very townie, as the urge to post more reads in thread is a townie impulse (until you get to the highest levels of course and not many people in this game, myself included, are there) ------------------------------------------------------ Gb-----, I fucking hate attacking players who are attacking me, I hate it because I feel robbed of objectivity. I only did it to tic cause it was noteworthy how he doubled back, and his first opinion felt informed by a pounce, but the rest of his stuff seems fine. (will go into that later) But at this point, I have to face the fact that those pushing me with certainty have a good shot of bieng scum, as I look terrible so they dont have to worry about me flipping green making them look bad, as they whole town will be shocked when I do and so they are free to push me as they please without fear of recourse. if theres a scum between tic and gb, it's honestly gb. This is going to sound weird giving what we know of how things actually went down, but gbs arguments against sl are terrible and reek of contrived red framing Ok since SL never answered me, I must say I don't like his posts He has an opening calling Damdred "null" (the only thing I can understabd from bolding a name) because damdred was wasting posts. This is bad because: 1) It is impossible to have contentful posts in the beginning of the game 2) Calling someone null is saying something someone did is not alignment indicative, which means (I) he is wasting a post because he is saying nothing contributive, and (ii) he is trying to look contributive while saying nothing at all. Wanting to lynch LS in the beginning of the game for wasting posts just reinforces this perspective There are two massive leaps in logic here, first off, gb assumes that the grey bolding sl uses means null, the problem with this is gb has a very distinct opinion of what null means. He asserts that calling something null is a sin, when even a smidge of thought of what sl is actually saying dispels that. Saying someone is blatantly wasting posts, and greying them out for it is effectively saying that they are acting in a manner that is scummy but that does not 100 percent make them scum. Ie they are worth keeping an eye on but not worth drowning in accusations this very moment. sl, regardless of his alignment, is pointing out damdreds behaviors because the game has just started and hes offering an opinion on how he feels about some elses play. Sometimes we find things odd or shady and want to communicate that without totally alienating a potential townie. Its something scum might do, but just as well something townies do as well, the fact that sl was scum means nothing. gbs reaction to it is totally out of proportion and utterly insincere. He also had to make multiple assumptions about what sl was trying to say ,and what calling something null actually means, to allow himself this reaction. It just seems so wierd and blown out of proportion, more like something I would write / : does not at all warrant the "are you kidding me" gb gives out. None of this would bother me, except for the fact that gb never ended up voting sl especially because he said he would sheep damdred I'm voting with Damdred because he is my strongest townread atm damdred voted sl, regardless of how fake gb seemed about sl from my view, gb clearly was passionate about him as he wasted like 2 posts out of pure outrage twoards sl. instead he voted ls and stayed there, as you know ls is one of my top town reads coming out of day 1, so what does gb see that I dont? In the beginning he seems to think ls is town via reverse association with sl Wanting to lynch LS in the beginning of the game for wasting posts just reinforces this perspective Later on, he posts a big case on ls and me and abandons his pursuit of sl to do so. He seems to think were scum together, because of how fast ls abandoned his read on me, note, I abandoned my read on damdred just as fast, this somehow makes damdred town, but me scum -_- in general early game is a time when we know nothing about each other and sometimes we abandon early reads the instant actual content comes to light, you know, kinda like how you seemingly abandoned your read of sl entirely after realizing… what about him? Regardless, the above isnt the damning bit. Here TT notices the same thing as me on LS. He also seems to be thinking critically about every person in the game. Makes me feel he is most likely town. A weak read, but a town one he claims tic tock sees what he saw, but theres no mention of what he saw or agrees with in this post or any before it. So I assume it has to be one of the two points tic raised here, 1: That ls is wasteful (tinfoil hate jokes) Didnt you town read ls earlier for sl going after him for spam posts? When did you invert your opinion? 2: That ls was pouncing on me. As for 2, tick claims ls is scummy for pouncing me and reads me as town. Gb totally disagrees with this as we saw earlier, he thinks me and ls are scum together. Damdred DYH Tumblewood gumshoe LightningStrike Tic and gb seemingly both have different versions on what happened, tic thinks im town and ls was scum pressing, but then what gb sees is ls doubling back because were both scum together. Yet he agreed with tic ? Why didn't he mention this key distinction then? Why didn't he clarify what it was he was agreeing with when he seemingly didnt buy tics point on ls spamming(seeing sl as scum for going after that earlier) and didn't agree with tic conclusions about what ls and me were all about? Did he even read what tic posted? smells like..................... contradiction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! / : Seems like hes contorting thier views to fit (though they really dont) so that he can vote on the guy they both agree on, ls, and through this all his sl read is seemingly lost entirely, and is no longer even a vote option for gb. Also this post is terrible regarding me. Bad backtracking. Do you want or you don't want to have discussion ongoing? It makes me feel you actually wanted to justify your vote to LS instead of just pushing a discussion further. Townie points taken away. Null leaning to scum. Wtf is this, of course I want to discuss, thats the game, I made a vote to see how people would react, got the townie reaction from dam and backed off as theres no point chasing those I dont think are scum (same story with tic tock honestly) gb is scum reading me for changing my opinion(which isnt bound to be that great at games start anyways) and explaining why I did so(which was to look for reactions, like ls’s, to you know, discuss). Hwat. In general gb seems to go after people for not constantly being at one anothers throats... sure scum can be timid, but thats hardly a rule. Also wierd was gbs attitude to the lynch I dislike this post from Koshi. He points out problems with LS and Shape but doesn't conclude nothing from it. Then he proceeds to vote... Ta-da! Fecalfeast. This post is a good example of red framing, he makes it look like koshi did something wrong here with his assesment of ls and shape, when he in fact did not, he concluded they looked scummy, but could be town for thier entrances, then said that ff might be town for his post, but was the most likely scum of the three. Also gb has never mentioned ff once till now, can we assume he town reads ff for this? Why hasent he mentioned this read yet (I looked)? This lunch is obviously not hitting mafia Judging by this post and the last, gb clearly did not think ff was mafia, so why did he do so little to save him? Finally, theres the fact of how his sl read disapearing act has finished completley by the end of night 1 Mafia could pretty much pile up on SL's counter wagon. This post seems to indicate even that he thinks sl is town, why? Whats changed? This is the last we heard since this sudden flip I know the case on SL isn't the strongest. Although I think his attitude was suspicious, I only wanted to keep developing discussion. I also like to push a target in a way everything is explained in details, whatever slignment he is, because I think mafia has a hard time covering all aspects of their stories. Regardless if a post is NAI or AI, a hard push will almost always reveal inconsistencies if the player's intention is made up When did his attitude become not at least suspicious Gb? Why no push at night? What really ticked me off about gb was this though. 17 Actually it was nothing, I was just checking if you were looking at the thread but not doing nothing to fight your lynch. Thank you for your attention. This is such bullshit. If I dont respond, I die anyways, but if I do, seemingly thats more damning? Gb isnt using this to convince himself of my alignment, hes reading into the doubt in thread and using this as a means to ease it no matter how I respond. There is no correct answer to what gb did, therefore it is null, but he treats it as if THIS is somehow what makes me scum If I don't respond, he says see? He doesnt care, if I do he says see? Hes lurking. This is not a tactic to nail scum, this is showmanship designed to ease towns into a mislynch. And I want you to know gb no matter what alignment you are, I would have probably not bothered to post at all (pretty tired of maf after normal )  if you had not shown your hand with such a base/shitty tactic. Just want you to know that.When I flip green, this is the fuck you lynch. Why? 1: For attacking sl for contrived reasons, then dropping his read at the drop of a hat. 2: For all his scum reads coming down to framing certain actions as scummy, when they are in fact null at most times at best. 3: For agreeing with tic when in actuality they agreed basically only on ls pouncing (though had hugely differing opinions on what that meant) just so he could contort thier views to match. 4: For suddenly treating sl as town come night? Really gotta drive home how wierd his silence on sl is. 5: For seemingly knowing ffs alignment despite never talking about it or really pushing against his lynch besides the bare min for I told you so rights. 6: for pushing dam into town reading him. Nevermind damdy. I think you're town so it is no use to argue on something that won't lead anywhere. Do you think I'm town? I wanna bounce some thoughts with you if you're willing to trust me. What are your reads atm? I really have a feeling that we have mafia between koshi/gumshoe/LS. Do you have any reason to disagree? Theres probs more, but this is already pretty huge / : his scum reads against hts and koshi are meh at the least. (note this is important, as the prevailing strat on tl mafia is to kill those accusing you, so getting dam to town read him before he dies is useful) more reads coming soon. (oh also big walls of text before me dying are things I do as scum, this does not make me town) | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On April 25 2016 04:56 DoYouHas wrote: I get the reasons why gum is a good lynch, I agree with them, but I would rather lynch Koshi. + Show Spoiler [GB's case] + On April 24 2016 06:10 GlowingBear wrote: Well, you can't really tell someone is town by his way of posting when you're playing a post-restricted game. You're basically said he looks town by game events and that makes him mafia (so, meta-read). But you've just posted this: So what is the real reason you're voting Shape? Is that because he looks underwhelming or because of that bad meta? Also, you said you're also voting Shape because people are pretty townie to you. So how am I "meh"? Why are you not willing to vote me? Isn't "meh" basically "underwhelming"? Which means there are more underwhelming people in the game by your own standards. So why going against Shapelog, who actually posted a lot Day1? By normal standards, I am kinda underwhelming this game based on my inactivity (and I'm inactive because I've been busy), DYH is also underwhelming. Why are you not talking about them? Why didn't you lynch SL who was pretty much underwhelming day1? Why did you pressured people asking them "why aren't you voting SL"? Also, are you sure you find people townie? : So if gumshoe is looking bad... how are you townreading everyone? Why aren't you pressuring/voting gumshoe WHO IS LOOKING BAD instead of simply voting Shapelog who has been UNDERWHELMING? See, Koshi, your thought process isn't clear. It looks like you throw thoughts out of the blue without any kind of consistency. You're following your own agenda. That's why I think you're mafia. + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2016 07:28 DoYouHas wrote: Koshi - I want to say Koshi's active and aggressive style is town. But he jumped up and down on me for valid points against Shape. He jumped up and down on HtS for the null read of FF while ignoring things I thought pointed to her being town. I don't think we get into the EoD we had without at least 1 scum in the movers and shakers. (Koshi, HtS, Damd, and maybe TT) Koshi pushed the lynch of 2 town for sure and probably 3. He is attacking town, leading lynches on town and after being proven wrong on FF he still wants to off HtS instead of stepping back and reassessing. Thinking he could be scum. Koshi led the wagon off of SL, attacks town all of day 1, and is very inconsistent day 2. He is pushing a scum agenda. ##Vote: Koshi Absolutely not, Koshi is a similar player to rayn in some ways, checked his games, he can be very aggressive. He def doesn't deserve to be lynched today and I was just as guilty for leading the lynch off sl as he was. You are not lynching someone who actually wants and is playing the game(and is probs town) before me. Also scum are not inconsistent here, they are decisive, this lynch is working out for them currently. | ||
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gumshoe
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gumshoe
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On April 25 2016 04:59 Tictock wrote: This is also in response to Tumbles last post as well. Its kinda odd, but tbh I think its even stranger behavior for town. I see he just posted a WoT with some reads ( I only have a ten min break so will only be able to read part of it before it's over) but he waited to ~2 hrs before the deadline to put in effort. I just don't buy town feeling like they are in as bad a spot as gumshoe is saying he is in. Like there was a game I played where I was the gunsmith, Onegu (as scum) faked a redcheck on me and I derped and said something about being a miller then claimed my role. Everyone thought. I was so full of shit Damdred even fake CC'd my claim as VT and made it so that everytime I posted everyone was just like " why are you even trying scum?" Even in that situation I kept posting and sharing my thoughts and reads because I knew that eventually I would flip town and those might be useful. I don't see that from gum here, just a lot of " woe is me" type posts and then w/e he has in that WoT. I'm only going to be around breifly before EoD to reevaluate and look at what happens in the next few hours, but I feel like we kinda have to lynch gum at this point because he never took the oppitunity to do anything till now and we really shouldn't let another EoD like D1 happen, especially in the case that gum is scum and is hoping to play on sympathy and the odd feeling of a slow day. Never just say this is townie or this scummy. We have an archive for a reason, I have behaved exactly this way as town and scum before. Don't lynch me for how you interpret my behaviour, you've never played with me and you haven't bothered to learn my wierd meta. Lynch me for my actions, which are terrible, so yeah probs just lynch me cause you don't want the doubt that I tricked you lingering, and unless you kill gb or fedie, this is probs a mislynch so it's better if I does : P Coming out with a caseon fedie soon. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On April 25 2016 05:06 DoYouHas wrote: You just listed two people I think are town. Aggression is not exclusively a townie trait and it doesn't make Koshi town. I regard Koshis play as generally townie for several reasons, sl was a crap shoot, gb was killed pretty much in the exact circumstances sl was in the other game, he flipped town. There's no way to really read players like that, so while it's tempting to say, he did this therefore he's scum, the situation does not warrant it. Koshi is also town because of his interactions with hts day 1. I don't think scum Koshi would have picked a fight with the most formidable player then backed off like he did, Also gb is pushing Koshi hard enough that via that read methinks Koshi must be town. Koshi is null at worst, you can in no way justify killing me before him. Also, it's to be expected that you town read scum, scum are tricksy, they are far more capable of waving the waters of suspicion as they have all the answers. The people you dont suspect after day1 usually have at least one red among them / : we may both be right, we may both be wrong, bottom line is, these are the people I'm willing to lynch, otherwise better I just die than watch a townier player than me go down. | ||
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