TL Mafia LXXIV: Storm Mafia 3
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justanothertownie
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justanothertownie
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On March 09 2016 08:14 Damdred wrote: There are pros and cons, the players are more in control of when the day ends for example while there still being a hard deadline I believe in this case. Parts of it are scum favored like the no lynch if nobody cares. Yeah, and that is not a good thing. Theoretically you have to be active at all times because otherwise you can get screwed by bad teammates. And that happens all the time. If you are the only eu/us player on your team you are fucked because the lynch will most likely happen when you should be asleep or at work. It punishes bad townplay when bad townplay is everywhere without offering an advantage for town in return. It gives selfish people who just vote without thinking power. I don't see the slightest advantage - it just sucks. | ||
justanothertownie
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On March 09 2016 08:54 Palmar wrote: case in point: a partisan asshole in the wild. You list exactly one advantage of IML - no shennanies (which town can reliably control in plurality since they know in advance when they could happen and which aren't a bad thing anyways). When IML is ALWAYS a shenanny. You defeated your own argument. | ||
justanothertownie
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On March 09 2016 09:02 Palmar wrote: The question was "why is it bad?", not "why is it good?". I'll happily discuss this in some other thread though, let's drop it here. If you dislike it for this particular setup that's fine, you are not required to play. Yes, and since your point about plurality being bad is obviously defeated you don't have any while the the bad things about IML remain. But sure. I can keep this discussion out of your game thread. I am just annoyed that the only 2 "normal" games that get hosted atm. are BOTH IML. This is really shitty timing. | ||
justanothertownie
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On March 09 2016 15:03 sandroba wrote: Yo jat, just say screw it and sign up anyway, I want to play with you =P I think I lost my excuse when it got changed to plurality. Still a shame that 2 of the main reasons I usually join games are hosting instead of playing though... :/ /in I guess. | ||
justanothertownie
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What does "may not claim your wincon mean?" Are we talking about the wording? | ||
justanothertownie
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On March 20 2016 07:49 marvellosity wrote: it would be great if we could get 5ish more players. Storm games are always great and well balanced, and Palmar considers them normal so there's nothing too crazy like alignment changes or stuff people feel uncomfortable about basically pls join :> Brave statement. Don't underestimate me! | ||
justanothertownie
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justanothertownie
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On March 23 2016 02:23 Palmar wrote: Ok we're starting on Wednesday, Mar 23 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) Maybe you should pm/notify the people who signed up early. Because of your no replacement policy and shit... | ||
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justanothertownie
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On March 24 2016 12:39 rsoultin wrote: @.@ gah okay now i really want to lynch you Why? Don't you see what he is talking about? It is kinda obvious. Even though this approach is silly since I can't imagine mafia doesn't have this information. | ||
justanothertownie
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On March 24 2016 12:48 LightningStrike wrote: Since you are here what your thoughts on the game so far? Don't have too many. I read the first pages earlier and they were full of uninteresting gibberish. Now I just read the most recent ones because I somehow can't sleep/headache. | ||
justanothertownie
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Supposedly because of the car and the whole investigation around that. It doesn't actually confirm him though. | ||
justanothertownie
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That one was actually pretty funny. | ||
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justanothertownie
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He needs to give us reasoning for 1) why he shot so early and 2) why gumshoe. And if it isn't very convincing I am tempted to just policy lynch him. | ||
justanothertownie
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On March 24 2016 22:28 LightningStrike wrote: Meh they were very subtle well played on that.... Anyways any other thoughts atm? Never change LS. | ||
justanothertownie
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Explain. Both of you - I don't like it at all. | ||
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Because I agreed with quite a few of her posts already. Sure, she is competent scum but I don't see why anyone would scumread her so far. | ||
justanothertownie
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On March 24 2016 23:45 Superbia wrote: Let me ask it this way JAT- who do you think is mafia? I don't have strong scumreads yet. There are a few people (ritoky and slam) who did blatantly antitown things which should mean they are mafia but sadly I can't rule the possibility of bad townplay out entirely. Still slam needs to justify his shot. You for example seem engaged and proactive which is usually a good sign but I have a problem with a some of your posts. | ||
justanothertownie
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This one: On March 24 2016 22:28 rsoultin wrote: @.@ really? cause i can buy doing this just to be a dick to palmar but i don't buy in a million years that rit of all people thought that his play was good or that he was achieving anything with it like seriously >< i can look up which post was like duh duh duh obv what he was doing before he even claimed what he was doing when half the game hadn't even posted yet, but it definitely caught my eye like, i've seen vivax do this sort of play with...oneg maybe?...i think in assassination, and it still wasn't terribly solid but he at least was being subtle enough about it and then using it to inform his reads that it was obvious that he at least was town making a play, even if the reads he was getting were unreliable but the way rit did it absolutely never ever achieves anything here. like literally scum wouldn't even need the vt role name or whatever to see it if they had two brain cells to rub together, and the fact that rit has reversed his story now to say that no he was seriously trying to form a town circle with that? i call bs -_- so seriously, what the fuck are you seeing that i'm not, damdy? (tbf i agree on koshi though lol >< him stumbling all over himself was hilarious <3) also obv it was slam and there's another obv that i'm not going to feed him ^^ -pokes at rels- hihi oh, i think koshi asked about the ls read? it's basically the haha you high? type attitude when ls first gets scumread lol >< and no just cause someone says they're gonna change their play doesn't mean that you just throw out everything you know about them @.@ how many times have i said i'm gonna try to stop spamming? The only thing I disagree with here is the LS part because he definitely did that haha you high thing as mafia before. The ritoky part is entirely true. Also this one: On March 24 2016 22:50 rsoultin wrote: eh, fuck it, i don't respond to terrorists ^^ ##vote ritoky nh, super, dude, losing patience @.@ "reactive" obv means emotional posting and i have a hard time seeing how you wouldn't have an idea on koshi after you've been around this long I was about to write something similar until I saw this post. You played with Koshi before. Everyone who played with town Koshi knows how he plays. It is very odd that you feel the need to ask questions like this. | ||
justanothertownie
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On March 24 2016 23:54 Superbia wrote: Okay, maybe I need to await slam's explanation and evaluate from there. I'm still with ritoky as being town. Yes, indeed. In the same vein please explain this post: On March 24 2016 22:56 Superbia wrote: I also have no idea how people are evaluating slam as being non-town. 1) What is the point of declaring this before slam said anything about the shot? Aren't you interested at all/are you so sure about his alignment that you don't need him to? 2) If yes, why? What's towny about what he did? | ||
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On March 24 2016 23:00 Kurumi wrote: Back to Slam. If he were Mafia and that was a Mafia shot, all I'd see now should be "LYNCH KURUMI" and it is not the case. So it means the shot was not used as a means to incriminate me or cast doubt, or leverage it in any way. While I was not the only one voting gumshoe, I was the person pushing the hardest since the very first post of mine. Is there a chance that Slam was bluffing/trolling/whatever and Mafia decided to use that to kill Shoe and let the responsibility for the kill just land on Slam? There's no one on Slam either, yet... So it seems that this kill went through without any group agenda, leading me to believe that it was Town KP, be it Slam or anyone else. It just lacks follow-up, both ways (against me and against Slam) have not been taken by anyone. I think Slam is town. I don't understand this paragraph at all. Why does mafia need to follow up on this? The logical/natural thing for them to do if slam is in fact mafia is to wait and see how well it goes/if he gets away with it before acting. | ||
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On March 25 2016 00:01 Superbia wrote: Is it? Mafia loves to pile on easy townreads. At some point everyone will figure out their own meta and adapt. It's always good town play to be wary. My point was logical and valid, albeit possiblY irrelevant for Koshi's alignment. The fact remains that the meta-reads on Koshi so far CAN be called careless, and that fact increases the likelihood of mafia spewing. I myself would like to see some pressure on RSO. I feel like what Ritoky has done has not been mafia indicative whatsoever. I personally care very little for the whole VT soft shenanigans and have paid little attention to that, but his mindset on the gumshoe incident lines up with my own. Sure, the Koshi townreads were quite careless. That is a fair point. But still you don't need to ask those questions if you ever played with Koshi and I think you did multiple times. Feel free to "pressure" rsoultin but if you actually scumread her I would like to know why. Don't you understand her point of view on the ritoky thing? I think it is pretty consistent even if you happen to disagree with the conclusion. | ||
justanothertownie
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On March 25 2016 00:11 Superbia wrote: I don't have a solid town read on Koshi yet. I'm going to assume from all of this that rso is super high in your town circle. Am I scum going after her? I don't have a town circle at all (I also do not have a solid townread on Koshi yet - however your read on him is completely irrelevant for the argument that you are asking questions you shouldn't need to ask because those are about his general play and not his play in this game). So no, she is not super high in there. I am not stupid enough to townread rsoultin this early in the game. My point is that I do not see why anyone would scumread her for what she has posted so far. You aren't automatically scum for going after her. That depends on your reasoning. | ||
justanothertownie
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On March 25 2016 00:15 Damdred wrote: I'm not giving a RS read yet because lynching her d1 isn't a good thing probably plus mafia will get tired of her spamming and shoot her anyway. Lots of town reads so far its sort of surreal though super being bad towards me without any real reasoning is concerning to say the least. Lots of townreads, eh? Mind sharing? | ||
justanothertownie
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On March 25 2016 00:19 Superbia wrote: She completely ignored my posts (i.e. no read on me whatsoever) and scum-read/went after my 2 town-reads. I want pressure on her. What are you getting from all of this? I am genuinely curious. You're at the moment pretty much defending her by questioning the push on her. Why? Do you think mafia is actively pursuing her? What does this mean for your read on her? Why do you believe that pushes on her need to be questioned? Why are these questions relevant to solving the game? Is it more important than letting it play out and collecting information that way? Do you think your posts were so interesting that ignoring them would be unnatural as town? Because I ignored them too. I am not defending her at all. I want you to explain what is scummy about her to get a better read on YOU. So far the only thing you brought up was a disagreement about ritoky which isn't a very good reas. Pushes always need to be questioned. | ||
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On March 25 2016 00:31 Damdred wrote: Lots is probably an exaggeration but LS Vivax Super koshi Rit Slam Some of them are flimsy right now and built on gut rit and slam. Koshis is easily faked I think buy I think its enough for d1 pass. I'm decently sure about ls and vivax though, super has a few problems but is still solid. And I want to town read you jat but we are in the dating stage Oh jeez, how thrilling. Did you explain slam somewhere or is it really pure gut? | ||
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On March 25 2016 00:36 Shapelog wrote: What? You forgot about someone so scumlean them is totes the best way... Instead of looking at their posts and determining it form them? Maybe you flesh this out, otherwise if not, please do so at your earliest convince. Forgettable people usually have a very high chance of being mafia. It's a legit reason on its own. | ||
justanothertownie
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On March 25 2016 00:41 Koshi wrote: Mr. Chupazi never gets killed by mafia. I do not believe in shots that need to be fired so fast within D1. I do not understand why he wouldn't wait. He can die. That's exactly my line of reasoning here - I have no idea why he felt the need to shoot so early. Good boy. Still would have liked slam to adress the thing first :/ | ||
justanothertownie
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On March 25 2016 00:26 Koshi wrote: Confirmed Town + Show Spoiler + Likely Town + Show Spoiler + Maybe town + Show Spoiler + Vivax justanothertownie Not going to lynch Town + Show Spoiler + VayneAuthority rsoultin Tumblewood Rels Null + Show Spoiler + Stutters695 sandroba ObiWanShinobi (Happy to stay in the shadows Cav? That's bad, come out of it) Tictock Shapelog Tubesock Won't lynch right now Mafia + Show Spoiler + ritoky Kurumi sicklucker Damdred Superbia (I feel like this guy has some really wrong reads. On top of that, did he go against the people reading me as town because they do it too easy or because he thinks I am mafia or is it both? Looked like he adjusted his story when he was getting flak which is never good. It was also quite obvious JAT didn't have rsoultin super high in his townlist. misrepresenting is bad as well.) Maybe Mafia + Show Spoiler + Alakaslam LightningStrike Likely Mafia + Show Spoiler + Confirmed Mafia + Show Spoiler + Actually, can you explain why Tumblewood is in your townlist? And why LS is this far down? | ||
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On March 25 2016 00:52 Damdred wrote: Lets not go down that line jat just because you do not like my reads foes not mean you have to act so sarcastically towards me. I will just ignore you if I have to. As for slam some is gut and the way he was doing things earlier questions somewhat trying before he just went breadcrumbs everywhere made me think he's town. Less so now than before but yeah. Calm your tits. It was harmless banter and not even meant to be in negative in any way :p If I had a problem with your townreads I would have questioned you on them like I did with slam. | ||
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On March 25 2016 00:56 Rels wrote: Slam apparently knew when his shot was going to land: And posted 25 minutes before it happened: So him no staying up to see what the guy he shot flipped is super weird. Since you just looked at it - when did he make this post about rsoultin where he says "too late now"? Was this before the second quote? Because if that is the case this is really odd. | ||
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On March 25 2016 01:24 Tubesock wrote: Good morning. Kurumi is my biggest scum read. Seems opportunistic with the Gumdrops push. Damdred was fishing (but not for roles) and it didn't seem Gums was saying Damdred was fishing for that, but Kurumi jumps his ass. Meanwhile Ritoky ACTUALLY fishes for roles yet all Kurumi says is "very vary of Ritoky". The rest of Kurumi's posts seem nitpicky. Tumble and Shape are forgettable and blending. I'm going to leave Koshi at null. I'm not liking his "play" but I did like his little outburst of emotion. Although, I find it hard to believe that can't be faked. As far as town I think my strongest TR's are Superbia, Vivax just below Jat and Rels. Damdred with a town lean. Ritoky probably is in fact VT. Slam I think is probably town. I am having trouble seeing the point of breadcrumbing so much if he were mafia. Why not just shut up and blow someone up? I do want to hear his explanation. Red: Decent point. Not the breadcrumbing but the actual claiming vs. just shutting up. Green: You could have waited for this first. | ||
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On March 25 2016 01:45 sicklucker wrote: koshi dumb tell confirmed? would not lynch What are you talking about? That he assumed ritoky shot? How would a dumbtell like this mean anything unless Koshi is mafia together with slam? It really doesn't. | ||
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On March 25 2016 02:07 sicklucker wrote: this was kinda what I ment by the dumbtell jat. Rit just posted gum was town. Then koshi started going full retard with dumbemotion that I felt as townie The argument superbia makes doesn't make any sense though. If Koshi thought for whatever reason that ritoky shot gumshoe then his reaction to that is very consistent and logical ESPECIALLY since ritoky said he townread gumshoe. So if ritoky had shot he really should be mafia in Koshis eyes. What you are saying is the opposite. That the reaction is towny which is fair but is very different from koshi being town directly because of the dumbtell. wat | ||
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On March 25 2016 02:42 sicklucker wrote: Im getting vibes that your mad about a town circle forming Yeah, sure. Everyone besides you is saying I am town and I am afraid of a town circle forming. Makes sense. I just tend to not townread people day1. In Star Wars I literally didn't hand out a single townread all game. | ||
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On March 25 2016 02:57 Damdred wrote: Not sure what you have disproven, the only game ice been wrong on ls was the game we were scum and was powering him through his cell. Ritoky i am still 100% after d1, every time he's scum I'm on his ass made one bad call about him though which is why i said he's probably town. I tunnel scum generally and don't tunnel at all most of the time. Do your little stabs have no real value here. Weren't you quite wrong on him all game in outlaw or am I misremembering things? | ||
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On March 25 2016 03:07 Alakaslam wrote: Do that then because that's been proven so effective, JAT, and will secure a town win. Fuck this bullshit, you butthurt idiots are so everywhere that I lose all motive to cooperate. No hate @ Superbia, Vivax, Kurumi, etc who convinced me the guy could very likely be scum, nooooooooo hate the shooter and policy lynch even though he 1. Breadcrumbed enough that you all knew it was me 2. Told people to think about what a gumshoe flip would tell them (but was clearly ignored) No that's a policy lynch that will help us win because he will still be a destructive force in the game, because multi shot vigs are totally possible. you are going to make not breaking the rules really damned hard. How about you stop crying like a baby and explain why you made that shot at that time when you were in no danger to ever be nightkilled. | ||
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On March 25 2016 03:15 Tumblewood wrote: Trying to catch up from my phone, but you're making a new post for every two I read. I think one of Kurumi and LS is scum, because they were the gumshoe wagon starters (I don't feel comfortable scumreading either of the other two) and he was the target for a mislynch. Also, all of you scumreading Slam for that shot are idiots. He was wrong, but he's obvious town because of it. You voted him too. Why are the wagon starters scum then? | ||
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On March 25 2016 03:19 Tumblewood wrote: I haven't voted anyone. They're scum for pushing an easy mislynch. Why the fuck did I think that you voted? I am confused. So you think townies never push other townies? That seems a little bit ridiculous. | ||
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On March 25 2016 03:27 Tumblewood wrote: Townies push other townies, but for different reasons. Gumshoe posted really awkwardly (a la big ramble), and that paints a big target on his back that says, "Lynch me!" Townies look more at the people who aren't so obvious because the quality of the lynch actually matters to them. That's not true at all. The definition of lynchbait is a scummy townie. It is the most normal thing in the world for townies to scumread scummy people. The only way someone is an easy mislynch is if he is acting scummy. | ||
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On March 25 2016 03:39 Alakaslam wrote: Cannot shoot after day1, Suspected one of either Gumshoe or Kurumi, Felt that Gumshoe was not adding useful talk and being distracted by my old meta. Who is crying so hard? "Slam shot wrong dude plynch him now" Vindictive AND an asshole, I see. Take a higher road than I take in every way or not at all. See, and why did you have to whine instead of just posting this earlier? Whatever. Let's not shit this thread up any further. If you had to shoot day1 you should have discussed a good target with the rest of us instead of going rogue like that. The problem is that whoever brought it up (Tubesock?) is right and if you were mafia you could have just stayed silent while shooting a good townie. So I am certainly not lynching you today. | ||
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On March 25 2016 03:41 Alakaslam wrote: NO IN FACT THEY WONT LIKE I AM SO PROUD OF MY SHOT OR SOMETHING? WHAT THE FUCK MAN. TELL ME NOT TO SIGN UP GET THE HELL OUT WITH YOUR GUILT TRIP BULLSHIT NO ACTUALLY IA M OUT. I don't come here to read this kind of shit and run my blood up. Calm down. If you actually had to shoot day1 it is not an idiotic play and I apologize for the way I went at you. | ||
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On March 25 2016 03:46 VayneAuthority wrote: There's no way roles are random, I swear the same people get blue roles everytime. It's usually people I want nowhere near a blue role too... Dank day 1 Let's not rile him up any further, ok? | ||
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On March 25 2016 03:49 Damdred wrote: VayneAuthority Kurumi Stutters695 sandroba Rels Tictock Tumblewood Tubesock Right now I think most of the scum is in this list so far, or at least people I would think about lynching today. Kurumi, VA and Rels are sort of fringe being off the list just because I think they seem like they could be useful if they are town down the road so far. Rels is pretty idk difficult right now he doesn't have a few of his town things he generally does going for him. The others are an assortment of policy/low volume/failure to postings/no real smart things so far. I find the lack of sandroba disturbing. | ||
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On March 25 2016 03:50 Koshi wrote: Lynch Slam. I don't believe he had to shoot before the 24h mark. Why do it so fast? LYNCH SLAM. Why did he shoot gumshoe and claimed it instead of shooting let's say YOU without saying anything? | ||
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On March 25 2016 03:51 VayneAuthority wrote: How likely does a "have to shoot day 1 vig" sound in a non experimental game to you just curious? Fair point but I had a look at the roles of the last storm game and there were quite weird ones in there. Also a dayvig itself is already quite unusual but it obviously exists. | ||
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On March 25 2016 03:55 Damdred wrote: Yeah I mentioned it earlier I think or at least thought it, he would be my #1 lynch right now. Hes been playing some great town games lately, the last one I was in with him he dominated the game if not for a modkill they would of won easily. His past few games have been really good. Now hes just....not here almost 24 hours into d1 I think hes a good lynch today. There are 2 possibilities: 1) He didn't notice the game started because it was kinda suddenly and it seems Palmar ignored my plea for reminding people. 2) He is mafia. | ||
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On March 25 2016 03:58 Damdred wrote: I am hoping its more two than one for sandroba tbh. Probably should just look elsewhere for the first 36 hours and decide then. Exactly. | ||
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On March 25 2016 04:08 VayneAuthority wrote: it's not too crazy to be scum lets be clear about that. If he truly follows the house of brown, chezinu is infamous for making super scummy ridiculous plays as scum. On the other hand, i have little to no interest in lynching slam today but maybe later once i get a better feel of the roles in this game and people's sentiments. Yep. That's the way to go. On March 25 2016 04:08 Koshi wrote: Your shot was superbad Slam and you should feel bad. But w.e. It happened. We lost an obvious townie. ggwp. Let's call slam town. I'll update my list when I feel like. I don't feel like atm. What happened to LYNCH SLAM all of a sudden? | ||
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On March 25 2016 04:15 LightningStrike wrote: JAT, Koshi, and Shape can I have your reads atm please? Nope, sorry. | ||
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Because 1) I will start traveling to my parents in about 15 minutes/will be on my phone only and 2) I don't feel like it. The things I wanted to say are all in the thread. That's where I am at so far. If I think someone should be lynched I will push that person and you will therefore know it. | ||
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On March 25 2016 05:54 Koshi wrote: Pretty sure I should make it to D4 or D5. Afk till then. Pretty sure you won't unless I die very early. | ||
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On March 25 2016 06:49 ritoky wrote: because i don't think you have the stones to claim not town as mafia that early into the game and then do some weirdly bad rescindy stuff. i mean it is in my filter in a spoiler on a big reads post. Superbia isn't a coward as scum and you don't even need any stones to do that. It is completely nai. | ||
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On March 25 2016 06:56 Kurumi wrote: I would love to lynch Ritoky, but his play was so terrible I can't believe a scum would make it... Or am I being double fooled here, JAT? As long as you get away with it it is not a terrible play as mafia. And ritoky is known for making plays. | ||
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On March 25 2016 06:57 ritoky wrote: i spelled it out multiple times, but sure. i am vt, i know nothing about the setup since it is closed. i have been in closed setups that are basically the same as a normal game and closed setups with 20 players, 19 of which are roles or mafia. i wanted to gauge the nature of how many PRs were in the game while locating all the VTs and narrowing down my potential mafia greatly. so i angle shot using the name of the role, assuming all town roles are named the same thing and that mafia either didn't get fake role pms or were too careless to reference them and understand what i was doing before it was already too late. the goal was to utilize the picture of the expedition, have people understand it, realize expedition was also in their role pm, and start forming a coalition of townies who understood we were all town based on the understanding of the expedition. from there you have a large block of people who identify eachother as near lock town and there is a vast amount of control over the day phase because of it as well as a smaller pool of people for potentially mafia. it forces mafia into an awkward spot where they have to choose to not PR hunt and leave PRs alive thus costing them a great deal or leave this large block of semi-confirmed townies alive and concede a ton of day phase control. the mafia lose something large either way. i think it is a pretty well devised plan, apparently i am alone. But here is the problem: You as an experienced players should not assume that mafia has no fakeclaims or knowledge about roles. Especially when 2 of the most experienced people of the community are hosting. It is really hard to believe. | ||
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On March 25 2016 07:03 ritoky wrote: i mean very often i don't even read the fake claims in my QT, especially right away at the start of the game when there's a lot more shit to worry about as mafia than your list of fake claims. most players, myself included, from my experience only reference them when needed. Once they realize that you are testing them which you outed extremely early btw. they just look it up. The result is that you tell mafia who is blue and learn nothing yourself. | ||
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On March 25 2016 07:11 ritoky wrote: agree to disagree. i will defend that plan as really good in and outside the game, and even if it gets me lynched. i agree with you my execution was bad, the picture was too unclear of communication, and i got antsy and should have held silent longer. i also think the plan was so poorly executed that it isn't devastating or even detrimental like you seem to think. if executed properly i think it is a massive town sided swing. if you disagree on the EV i dunno, we just disagree about gameplay. Yes, I disagree. It doesn't make sense in theory and it also doesn't work in reality. People tried the same in assassination which lead to batsnacks (?) believing I was confirmed town even after I had already openly claimed scum. | ||
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On March 25 2016 07:13 Rels wrote: Why did you post these 1h30 after the picture ? Good question. This fits a "gonna confirm myself as town to those idiots" mindset much better than the mindset ritoky claims. | ||
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On March 25 2016 07:22 ritoky wrote: who cares if 2 blues die if you have idk....8 semi-confirmed townies operating as a voting block.....do you seriously undervalue townies knowing with 95% certainty who eachother are that much...just absolutely mindblowing.... people are so opposed to making plays for terrible reasons and they are eeyores about it on top of it. There is no 95 % certainity. This can never happen. On March 25 2016 07:26 Tubesock wrote: Ritoky is arguing why communism is such a great idea on paper. Only that his plan isn't any good on paper. | ||
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On March 25 2016 07:39 Tubesock wrote: Same same. You earlier town read Sicklucker. Can you elaborate? Maybe Obi also. I guess in one of your last lists you had SL above Vivax who fell for town reads (you didn't like his reads?) and then Obi as mid tier town. Anyway, taking away the blue hunting I think Ritoky is town. And I do believe him about his plan. This isn't to say I trust him, but he's not going to be on the D1 lynch list. I like the Sandroba plynch. ##Vote: Sandroba This is a pathetic copout vote. | ||
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On March 25 2016 07:49 Tumblewood wrote: Jat, do you believe that making plays that don't help town only comes from scum? Obviously not. Otherwise I would be yelling to lynch ritoky by now. But I think healthy scepticism is appropriate when a player that is usually good with mechanics and also a very bold and competent mafia player makes such a play. And for me it is more what rels pointed out earlier. Ritoky didn't even try to use this disaster in a towny way. He started with outing someone he thought might be blue and tried to confirm himself instead of actually looking for other VT like he claimed. | ||
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On March 25 2016 07:57 Shapelog wrote: Wait hold on. I am going to use this 8 logic here because i am confused now. + Show Spoiler + So Best case would turn it into 8 v 13 right? Let say about 5 roles are 3rd party/mafia So 8 v 8 v 5..... Mafia would have some kinda of KP so they would shot into the 8 vt;s or whatever, let say 3rd is a kill role. So each night 2 of the confirm townies die, or they shot into the suspect pool. The 8 blue roles would then check eachother/use their power on the other people (assuming they have a power). Well, Instantly, a tracker/watcher would be fuck over because any person they check would go somewhere. The only way to get a good track is to track to a death. All the other ones are useless because they can't determine anything. They only have a 2/25 chance (N1) of catching scum. And they can still be vig technically. But lets say it was 10 or something 10 v 11 -> 10 vs 6 vs 5, Blue roles have to cover less people. But that is still 10 other people a invest blue role has to either check or track. Not to mention that any of the 10 vt's could be shot theoretically (scum/3rd party killer would pick high value targets) And this is not meationing if the roles are not trackable or watchable. Then Physiologically, some invest blue roles might check the vt to make sure they are vt's. thus wasting a check. I guess the protection and vet roles would be fine/in a better spot. idk about what would happen if you than make everyone out of the circle claim. Eh it not that great when i look at it like this. Are you 2 seriously arguing over the completely irrelevant math of a number ritoky obviously just made up to prove his point? Wtf. | ||
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On March 25 2016 08:00 Superbia wrote: JAT, what do you think of the people pushing on gumshoe pre-slam-shot. Scum in there? Possible. I don't think there is something inherently wrong with pushing gumshoe early though. His first post WAS really bad. I wouldn't scumread anyone only for this. | ||
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On March 25 2016 08:01 Damdred wrote: On the plus side the pool for the lynch today is still kinda small. JAT what do you think of rels? I am always careful about rels. But he made some good observations so far so I wouldn't lynch him today. | ||
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On March 25 2016 08:06 Kurumi wrote: I only made one post on this, no idea why Shape brought it up, the thing that stroke me the most was that ritoky thought 8 players is huge, while it is not. BTW JAT, there is one thing I like about sandroba lynch: past experience with scum in Storm 1. RebirthOfLegend went MIA, I believe on Day 2, because we thought he'd be modkilled on the basis of lack of activity, but more seriously because of playing against wincon of either side, we lynched someone else. He lived on, even posted very fast after the lynch happened. He was the Mafia Poisoner. There is a world where sandroba is a red role and just wants to survive the D1, but I think sandroba has enough time to prove us wrong if he chooses to pop into the thread in like, even 12 hours. I won't support the sandy lynch right now, I just wanted to say that there was a play concerning "afk" mafia in the first Storm Mafia and because of lack of activity requirements we need to keep an eye on that. I am well aware that we need to be less lenient on activity this game and that scum sandro is prone to lurk like a bitch. But if we want to policy him we can do that before deadline. The ideal case would be that we have a vig who can kill him in the night because if we really waste a lynch on sandro we won't gain any information regardless of his flip. | ||
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On March 25 2016 08:07 Shapelog wrote: IIRC i didn't do the bolded. Tube questioned me about it and i said i would look back at your posts. I thought the concept was good because it would theoretically make a good town circle if it worked. I didn't take into the account of what happens to the blue roles and how it would play out (I should of). I think rik is town because he tried to make a play that would help town in his opinion. Why would scum put that much attention on themselves? to snag some blue roles? I admit the excuation was awful because of Calling Damdred blue/scum, thus giving away any benefits it might have. Also if it was a mafia play, i think it would of been thought out more and he wouldn't out it. I feel like he hasn't really plan for a response to this mess, which would make since if he is town. I think we can all agree that ritoky thought it would get him townread regardless of his alignment, no? On March 25 2016 08:08 Superbia wrote: All right, now that I have both your attention I want to continue the train of thought. Everyone kind of agrees that gumshoe's post was somewhat scummy, and that it was an easy scum-push regardless of alignment. So I'm inclined to believe that -a- scum would pile on the push. Agreed? This seems like an arbitrary claim without a solid foundation to me. | ||
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On March 25 2016 08:17 Superbia wrote: It is somewhat arbitrary JAT, but gumshoe flipping green is the most relevant info we have right now. Give me something concrete and I might give you an opinion. Assuming something random is not how I work. | ||
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On March 25 2016 08:23 Superbia wrote: Rso didn't care for the gumshoe wagon. Neither did JAT or Rels iirc. Of course I didn't. I didn't think he was particularly scummy or towny (he also did not post anything interesting at all) and it was really early in the day. Also pushing gumshoe is always a good thing since he tends to lose interest in the game pretty quickly otherwise. | ||
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On March 25 2016 08:32 Superbia wrote: Also I'm going to make a wild calculated guess and say that one between Rels and JAT is 3rd party. Ah, I see we are at it again with the arbitrary unfounded claims. | ||
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On March 25 2016 08:37 Superbia wrote: I actually feel super good about my circles right now. Just don't have a straight up mafia I want to push. Like Tumblewood/Damdred would be okay-ish but I'd rather keep my vote on rso and see where that brings us? Thoughts anyone? I still don't really see why rsoultin would be mafia for the things she posted but she definitely lacks presence by now. Do what you want - I will go for a run and then I will try to sleep. | ||
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On March 25 2016 08:42 Superbia wrote: That's fine. Can we pretend we're both town for the rest of today and see where that brings us? May help me on your alignment. Sure. | ||
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On March 25 2016 09:22 Shapelog wrote: When was the last time i got deep sleep? Tuesday? Jeez. Anyways, I still would lynch: VA- Mellow yellow, need more out of him Tumble/Rsoul- one of them. Want TUBMLE TO FUCKUONG RESPOND!@!!!! Mr.Stutter - Just disappeared after asking me a question OWS Sandman as a Plynch Still need to dive JAT, Kunimi, Someone i prob. forgetting. In other words your mafia list is a list of all the inactive people. Not very impressive. | ||
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On March 25 2016 16:33 sandroba wrote: Read up till gumshoe died so far. It looks like slam shot him adn koshi somehow arrives at the conclusion it was ritoky. Kinda weird from koshi, but it seems like an honest mistake, not a fake dumb tell. Ritoky btw looks like is very likely townie, not really because of his vt gambit (which could be done by mafia if they had the roles early), but because of how much he believes his plan was the shit. As town we tend to think our dumb plan is so great imo =P. Weird that slam didn't make any coments after the shot if it was him (which I'm inclined to believe). If I had to decide right here I'd say slam is scum. That's not a good point. He can be proud of his plan regardless of alignment. On March 25 2016 21:49 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Just sandroba. I've got a bunch of experience with sandroba and iirc he's completely useless as mafia - he posts very little and the posts he does make are easily recognized as illogical and bad. He is far and away stronger as town. Most of the times sandroba is completely useless as mafia, yes. But he can also play a fucking scary game. Just look at catastrophe mafia for prove. I think sandros posts today were okay. But he needs to return and continue to play. | ||
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On March 25 2016 22:21 Kurumi wrote: All that is in VA's filter is that he will be voting for rso and that he did not read much of the thread. He brought nothing of substance concerning rso, he said his vote would be be "half policy, half read". So no, he wasn't useful, he did not talk only about things important to him - his entire filter is just fluff like "oh man blues be blues everytime I play a game". He actively avoided talking about anything at all in any way and you believe that's better than talking? Bogus Vivax, bogus. Why do you want to sheep sandroba? Why are you already agreeing that rso is a good lynch prior to having your own opinion? Being like that is VAs usual townmeta though. If he talked about it at length trying to find a sensible reasoning for his read then that would scare me way more about him. On March 26 2016 00:51 sicklucker wrote: I think the only people who would truly think someone is 3p is a mafia in an open setup. A town would just think they are mafia and asume there is no 3rd party. but a mafia would see dandred playing weird look at their qt and see hes not in said qt. Knowing dandreds not mafia that mafia would then know that said dandred is third party. Then why aren't you calling superbia scum right now? You know the guy who said Rels/me were 3p? | ||
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On March 25 2016 23:18 Tubesock wrote: Rso, I'd liek to talk about Tumble. His only real read is Vivax is town. Which I agree with. He also didn't like the pile on of Gumdrops and came out with 2 suspects for it, which I also agree one (well the one, Hi Kurumi!!!). He also thinks Slam is town, which I also agree with. His sin really is not putting out more reads but he has a few in there and I don't get the impression he's trying to be substantive. So, why do you think he's scum? Outside of Ritoky's "play" I think he's town. I don't think it's at all outside his mafia play to make a bold move like that, but I guess I think there are better people to lynch? This post is all around terrible. Awful reasoning for the questionable tumbelwood townread. Vague ritoky defense without any meat behind it even though he admits that ritoky could make his gambit as mafia. On March 26 2016 00:01 Damdred wrote: I like this post, its a good post. time to eat No, it is really not. It is a very bad post actually. Noone is ever mafia for posting a giant case and you should know better, damdred. On March 26 2016 00:28 rsoultin wrote: this is not what tube said at all and i'm pretty sure you know that -_- It is EXACTLY what tube said. Wtf are you doing? On March 26 2016 00:28 rsoultin wrote: this is not what tube said at all and i'm pretty sure you know that -_- No, he is not. His anger is absolutely understandable. Not liking rsoultins recent posts at all. Tubesock is probably one of the best lynch targets right now. | ||
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On March 26 2016 04:45 sicklucker wrote: we can probably let him get mod killed... He won't be modkilled for inactivity in this game. | ||
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This one: On March 26 2016 00:32 rsoultin wrote: hyperbole much? like, you're right, these reads came later cause he entered the thread later, which is why i questioned him on gum to begin with since gum was doing the same thing he's accusing you of doing, yet you're completely misrepresenting what he's scumreading you for which just makes me twitch >< | ||
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On March 26 2016 04:57 Damdred wrote: I could lynch tube though he's on my list I thought you liked his post very much just now? | ||
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On March 26 2016 04:30 Koshi wrote: ##unvote ##vote tubesock voting tubesock because rsoultin is the worst lynch I ever saw in my life. Not kidding. I am puking. Can you elaborate why it is THAT bad? Her recent posting was pretty disappointing and she lacks any town presence. I understand wanting to lynch other people before her but this post seems quite overboard. | ||
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Where the fuck is everyone? Especially the two main wagons? | ||
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On March 26 2016 05:57 Rels wrote: You quoted a post explaining how rsoul is scum and another one explaining why LS, who rsoul townreads, might be scum. Why should rsoul read these posts and be like "I was wrong rit could be town" ? The main problem I have with this is that all sandro ever says about why rsoul is scum is that he disagrees with her scumreads. Which I find pretty unconvincing alone. Especially since ritoky has completely disappeared since his ridiculous fit about his stupid plan yesterday. I think rsouls play is lacking severely by now and it's not a bad thing that she is a wagon at all but I would expect sandro to present more convincing arguments than this. | ||
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On March 26 2016 06:06 Shapelog wrote: *math states the at least 1 to 2 people might be scum when using 4 player mafia team. I am guessing you are pulling that right out of your ass superbia style, yes? What's with people just assuming things for no reason recently? It's retarded. | ||
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On March 26 2016 06:08 Rels wrote: Caught up. I don't want to lynch rsoultin.She's kinda underwhelming but she was also there talking about reads for a long time. Tube on the other hand is a good lynch I think, I liked JAT and Kurumi's posts about him. Gonna filter him after that post to see if that changes my mind or not. Still want to lynch ritoky too. For all the old reasons + he didn't do anything since. Like, it's really different from the town!ritoky I remember from two past games: I want to be a millionaire and ... nutcracker I think ? The one before outlaw. In those games, ritoky was challenging the thread with questions, and in nutcracker guiding the lynch towards someone scummy BUT while at the same time keeping the people he could read alive even if they were scummy. Like it showed a will to solve the game which is not there in this game; he did the plan and that is it. Who I thnk is town in random order: Vivax, OWS, Kurumi, SL, Slam, JAT, Shape, Koshi, Tumble. Who I'm OK lyncihng: tube, ritoky, Stutters, VA. People I didn't list or I forgot are either null or slight lean one way or the other. We are not lynching VA. Stutters is pure policy and maybe we have a vig for him or something. | ||
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On March 26 2016 06:12 Rels wrote: Stutters is actually the ideal person for a Slam shot. Hopefully he's dealt with by a vig. You towread VA ? I wouldn't call it a townread. But I have played with him countless times and know better than to lynch him day1 for being useless. The only time he ever isn't useless on day1 is if he is mafia. | ||
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On March 26 2016 06:12 Shapelog wrote: I was just using a 4 player mafia team because a 5 player mafia team was just a tad bit harsh for the point i was making. Perhaps a 4 and 1/2 scum team should suffice no? Pretty much. Though i think the scum team number should be roughly 4-5 since for m18 it was 4. idk how Mr.PAL-mar balances though. What's the point? Why are you even talking about this? I thought you wanted to reduce the amount of unnecessary spam you produce. | ||
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On March 26 2016 06:19 Shapelog wrote: Oh yeahhhhhhhhh, i forgot about that. :/ I was talking about this because you typed something about it. IF you are talking about the original post, i want to know what LS thinks about Tube or anyone for that matter that he finds sus. Fair enough. You could have done that without the random irrelevant number comment though. | ||
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On March 26 2016 06:25 Rels wrote: The biggest thing for him being scum is this post. A lot of hours after its first reason to scumread Kurumi, tube is still stuck with the same reasonning. His scumread is not evolving with the thread. Futhermore, there is also the fact that he is so focused on only a couple people. Plus the read switch on me. Plus the "I would have scumread gumshoe if Kurumi didn't jump on him" sentence with doens't make sense. Yes. I just read his filter again and stopped at the same post. It is very weird that he jumps on kurumi for overexplained/longish posts defending gumshoe when gumshoe was the worst offender in that regard and I don't think I buy his explanation. I don't see the train of thought here. | ||
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On March 26 2016 06:34 Superbia wrote: RSO stop lurking right now. +1 | ||
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On March 26 2016 06:37 Shapelog wrote: Actually yeah That post from tube is a bit off. Thought i feel like rsoul is still mafia so i am sticking to my guns. Idk about tube anymore tbh. Felt at first like a town tunneling onto someone but these points you are making Rels. I can't really deny it doesn't make much sense. Still annoyed that wagons are not here. The problem is I don't think Tube will return. He said he was going to work and that he can't post from there. Which is indeed annoying. No idea what's going on with rsoultin. | ||
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On March 26 2016 06:40 sicklucker wrote: I think I want to vote rstoulin even tho tube is also mafia just because I think its easy to kill tube tormorow and get two mafia if that makes any sense. But hum It doesn't. | ||
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On March 26 2016 06:43 Superbia wrote: I don't even read tube in any particular way (i.e. I don't really have a read on him at all). Also wagon was formed rather quickly and I do not recall anyone feeling particularly strong about him at all during the course of the day. So feels like pile-on votes. But whatever. 20m in a 21 player game is not enough time to do anything. He will probably flip town and rso will probably have to be shot or checked during the night. No cop that isn't completely retarded will ever check the counterwagon. | ||
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On March 26 2016 06:49 Superbia wrote: What? It's great to figure out the game's flow. It's the most obvious frame target in the game. No sane person checks into that. | ||
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On March 26 2016 06:47 Damdred wrote: I'm here traffic was bad I voted tube. JAT just don't get cold feat today: ( I might. Rsoultin isn't even here defending herself. Who knows. | ||
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On March 26 2016 06:52 Superbia wrote: I'm hoping for 6 flips. Then you will be very disappointed. | ||
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We don't even get to know what his role does? | ||
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On March 26 2016 07:05 sicklucker wrote: Ya no im just really smart =] If you were town and smart and cared about tube not being lynched you would have brought it up when a switch would have been realistic instead of at the last minute. | ||
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On March 26 2016 07:08 Shapelog wrote: Why are so many people saying they are going to flip? All you doing is making mafia decided wither or not they want to WIFOM you or not. Who cares? It won't influence mafia at all. | ||
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On March 26 2016 07:09 Superbia wrote: PR actions should not be discussed. Though rso is a decent night KP target imo. I don't care if it's PR KP, mafia KP or 3rd party KP. Good shot either way. We will see. I think it would be far more valuable to lynch her. I really need people like ticktock and stutters to either start posting asap or to die because lynching them would be very unproductive. | ||
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On March 26 2016 07:12 Koshi wrote: If you want to know who is mafia open my list post. Well at least we lynched a null read of mine. Your play this game sucks ass. If you are town that is. | ||
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On March 26 2016 07:12 sicklucker wrote: Like i clearly didnt care if tube got lynched and thought he was scummy. I just came to the conclusion near the deadline that rstoul is probably stupid confident because SHE HAS 8 MAFIA BACKING HER UP AND LYNCH BAIT TO COMPETE WITH like she was not even here for the deadline at least tubesock made it clear he could not make it Yes, now you are saying this. Where was this emotion and pushing before it was clear that tube was the lynch? | ||
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sandro Koshi ritoky rsoultin (damdred) I will make it my mission to see to enforce this day2. | ||
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On March 26 2016 08:00 Damdred wrote: Hmmmm why am I in parenthesis jat you can be insulting if need be Why do you always assume that I am trying to insult you? :/ You are in parenthesis because I think you were more involved than the other people on the list. | ||
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On March 26 2016 08:23 Koshi wrote: I think my list is pretty good. But we will see. I am hoping I get flak later though. And I will defend myself minimally. Let's assume your list is good. That doesn't make your play any good. And it doesn't make you town either. Your biggest strengths as town are your townyness and your pushyness. Your play here is lacking both so you are 1) playing like shit 2) mafia. | ||
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On March 26 2016 08:40 Damdred wrote: Lol I was just poking a bit of fun q.q Really though I do agree that I wasn't as involved as I should,of been. Even though it night be worthwhile to kill Tina with how the wagons were I'm not sure exactly if she is scum considering how lax both wagons were and with people pushing one way or another especially with Tina up for lynch. That is total void depending on how she acts because she had a really good chance to be lynched. Its also probable we need to lynch into,the afk no voters though just s we don't get into,the position later in game where we lose due to no votes. I hope we have another vig or bomber I think stutters is a good example. I think I'm most secure still with jat and super as top towns I,need to reread. Really some of the non voters are surprising Yeah, she had. If me switching would have killed her I maybe would have done so in the end. | ||
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On March 26 2016 10:25 Tictock wrote: ok I made it to pg 20 before getting distracted again Why did you even sign up for this game? At this rate we just need to get rid of you somehow. | ||
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On March 26 2016 23:44 sandroba wrote: That's one way of looking at it. Another way is I wasn't here so I couldn't push it harder but I was on her, "top town by many" superbia was on her, "top town by many" jat was considering switching to her and no one had a real reason for lynching tube, but despite all of that she ended up not being lynched. Also what do you make of the strong hint of I'm blue don't shoot me in her last post? Do you think that's likely a townie mentality at this juncture? I don't read that as "I am blue". | ||
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On March 26 2016 23:40 Vivax wrote: the 4 people who didn't vote have to be shot if possible, preferably either TickTock or stutters. Don't claim if it you do it. Yup. | ||
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On March 27 2016 00:13 sandroba wrote: no u. Just pretend he doesn't exist. Are you completely caught up? | ||
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Because I would expect a little more content from you if that is the case. Where is the clever analysis? The awesome case? All I see is you keeping the same reads you always had without really developing them or looking at things from multiple angles. Your mindset seems to be very linear. | ||
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On March 27 2016 00:37 Koshi wrote: sandroba is calling the obvious townies mafia (rsoultin, Vivax) and focussing on making them look bad. Simply destroying town circles from forming. Sandroba hasn't focussed on solving the game. Look in his filter and see that he is ignoring to give reads on 15 people in the game. Simply because he isn't involved enough in this game to give a fuck about that as mafia. Only gives information away. Actually called ritoky 100% town and based a case on rsoultin for that. That reason alone is ridiculous and 100% mafia. Yeah, more or less what I said in a less polite way. | ||
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I would have expected at least 2, probably 3 anti town KP here. If that really was a vigshot then we had a fucking crazy night1. I gues some blues did their job. | ||
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On March 27 2016 11:16 Koshi wrote: explain the interactions between the engineers better. And try to give it all at once because the more you hold back the more I think you are mafia. Just spill it all out. Only leave out what would be bad for mafia to know. but say EVERYTHING else. You are stalling. Yes. It very much looks like stalling right now. | ||
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On March 27 2016 02:47 Damdred wrote: Still no tina, stutters, Tt and others: ( Please help us vigilante and shoot smart... but I know you big will go big and shoot jat or SL and say you were going big. What is this btw.? I mean even if we ignore that those could have been the actual nightkill targets - why post this? On March 27 2016 03:50 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Tbh I'm kind of shocked that tube was actually lynched considering how horribly inactive I was. I think that tells us something about the scumteam in that they probably didn't care very much about either lynch, I.E. it's unlikely scum was up for lynch. What does tube being lynched have to do with you being inactive? Why the fuck would tube happening easily be an argument in favor of his counterwagon? On March 27 2016 03:53 Damdred wrote: Ows is a smart man This is not the first time you called a really bad post good now. | ||
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On March 27 2016 07:41 LightningStrike wrote: I object the lynch Tina despite everything you think it was most likely town vs town day 1. Show me exactly why. Don't repeat this without reasoning all the time. On March 27 2016 10:11 sandroba wrote: His plan is too stupid to come from mafia, he seemed too proud of it to be mafia, him coming out and bragging about his plan after a townie just got shot is too balsy to be mafia, multiple posts from him I find thoughtfull and none sound fake to me. What makes you so sure he is mafia? All I can read is that you think he could do that plan thing as mafia, which doesn't make him mafia at all. He is right that you are not considering anything else and is tunneled on this idea without adding any other value to the thread. You can't say he is mafia for having a scum read on you because I'm town and I do as well, calling it BS doesn't make it go away. Suppose you are wrong about ritoky, who is mafia? If you are town you should be in a unique position to analyse day 1 wagons, should maybe start with that? If ritoky is town this is not why. I can see why you would think this but it's not true. | ||
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On March 27 2016 11:23 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Like, I guess rso being up for lynch and not getting lynched was something? But it still feels really weird because nobody ever really sheeps me and me getting my lynch despite not being around to ensure it is weird. Shouldn't that mean that rsoultin is actually far more likely to be mafia than town to you? | ||
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On March 27 2016 11:27 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I don't understand why I should think this. Elaborate? I actually touched on this a bit earlier and said that both wagons being really close and me being busy at the time probably meant that both wagons were town. I will try to explain it to you: Obi push tube. Obi go afk. Tube still lynched over rsoultin. Obi surprise cause noone sheep Obi normal. ???????????? Obi conclude people listen to him town and wagon tvt. | ||
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But that's the point. If you think mafia "sheeped" you then that would make rsoultin more likely mafia in your eyes. | ||
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On March 27 2016 11:36 rsoultin wrote: Cause I really am a good town player but I would have understood if people shot me. I should be more active around Monday but I can't be sure. You can be a good town player but so far you haven't been at all and you can't seriously expect mafia to shoot you when you were the counterwagon to a townie day1. How about you use this supposed information advantage you have over us to make some useful analysis... | ||
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On March 27 2016 11:40 rsoultin wrote: I said I'd discuss what y'all want but this is stupid. Can't really play much till Monday so stop calling me useless. Was anything but funking useless when I was here so you can call me a liar if you want or just accept that I don't have the time to delve right now Oh, I will accept that. But even when you were here you did not have any impact on this game and you will have to admit that being afk does not make you town - it is nai at best. There is really no reason to townread you. I expect you to play for real on monday then otherwise I am not opposed to lynching you despite the claim. | ||
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On March 27 2016 11:40 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Vivax is starting to fall off a bit tbh. Maybe he's scum. Agreed. | ||
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On March 27 2016 11:40 sandroba wrote: How likely you guys think it is that palmar introduces this kind of variance to the game for no particular reason? I mean some person has to invent something give to the other who can use it the next phase and it has only 50% chance of working and you only know what it does after you use it, you don't even know if whoever invented it is town or not. Pretty questionable. On March 20 2016 07:49 marvellosity wrote: it would be great if we could get 5ish more players. Storm games are always great and well balanced, and Palmar considers them normal so there's nothing too crazy like alignment changes or stuff people feel uncomfortable about basically pls join :> By now I have really no idea how this game is supposed to be a normal game. Especially if this rsoultin claim is true. | ||
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On March 27 2016 12:53 sicklucker wrote: ok ya. I forgot slam was a vig. your both probably not viggies. Why? Palmar said he would compensate for his activity policy with vigs. | ||
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On March 27 2016 13:10 sandroba wrote: I don't think I would claim my shot as SK. Especially considering there were no mafia kills, I would probably just be happy to leave people wondering why mafia shot stutters. I don't think you should make it your job to throw doubt on me jat. I think already enough people are going to tinfoil about that regardless. Yeah, maybe. As long as you keep playing the game I am unlikely to really go for your lynch anyways. | ||
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On March 27 2016 15:10 Alakaslam wrote: You Dude That's all I have. No wait you didn't go far enough "You are not helpful. You shoot town. You are a pain in every game you are in." I see into your posts, you do not hide as well as the others do though better than rayn does. You don't see into anything right now. You are angry and beligerent for no reason at all. You shot town, yes. Do I disagree with your target? Yes. But I also shot town before - shit happens. "You are a pain in every game you are in." - Never did I say or even imply anything like this and this is certainly not my opinion. You are not helpful and obstinate right now and yes, it annoys the shit out of me because I would like to win this game. Doesn't mean that I don't generally respect you as a person and player. | ||
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On March 27 2016 15:18 Alakaslam wrote: Anyone can pull this off but I remember emotional things with unfortunate clarity. I make associations on just about everything and study social interaction far more than anyone normally does due to my social inabilities; because I cannot sense context normally as most people do without thinking, I must study every nuance, every facial expression, every unspoken truth And I have dealt with most scenarios multiple times And when things look exactly the same, I question how they could not be actually the same thing So Save face but don't expect my reaction to change You believe what you want to believe then. | ||
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On March 27 2016 20:00 Tictock wrote: Finished reading up till EoD. This vote is really odd as a final count, both Rsoul and Tube voting Kuru and everyone piled on them... could be a TvT. I think one of Kuru or Rsoul is probably scum though. Reads at this point: VayneAuthority - Null - + Show Spoiler + Drops a half assed read on Rsoul #547, pretty much only thing he's firm about and leaves. Could be townie not giving a fuck or scum dropping a vote and outing. Kurumi - Scum lean - + Show Spoiler + #216 kinda an odd open, he really just rambles about a couple of different people in one post; Gum pointed out this interesting bit in #268; #305 alot more rambling and the conclusion that gum is for sure scum feels kinda over the top; #495 stopped reading after the "bollocks I was really wrong, I really was too harsh" reaction to gum flipping town; #870 kinda like this post, feels genuine... could prob come from scum though; #1008 actually like this response; #1071 really weak vote, opportunistic and rife with omgus; WoT's feely rambling like they have no read drive/motivation behind them, reads seem kinda weak and opportunistic for how much he likes to write Stutters695 - Turns out was a blue... Damdred - mild scum lean - + Show Spoiler + #166 decent post, shows critical thought and is pushing for info; #300 decent reads, disagree about Vivax and LS though; #379 mimics Jat in making the "sensible statement here" also the snap defense of LS feels off even if he's townreading him; #1264 don't like this vote, #959 pile of garbage that boils down to "don't lynch me, I'm a good player!"; #1055 says he likes this post from Tube but in #1264 he plops his vote on Tube with no real explanation (actually never did find much about his Tube read rechecking his filter) Weird vote on Tube, not explained and he had recently quoted a post he liked, a few townie posts but nothing I haven't seen Damdred do as scum before sandroba - town - + Show Spoiler + #966 felt same way about SL's gum vote; #967 weird he doesn't know gum got shot; all in all the thought dumb from #966 to 972 feels pretty towny; Feels alot like sandroba from last game ObiWanShinobi - town lean -+ Show Spoiler + #957 and #1000 seems like Obi is being fairly forward with his thoughts Koshi - town - + Show Spoiler + Easiest read in the game, I have posts noted for him but why bother... Rels - town lean - + Show Spoiler + #439-440 jumps in with stuff on his mind; #537 exactly my thought; #1280 I like this catch; I read Rels by the way he pushes on people and things, as scum he tends to nitpick and will overpush little things, here he feels level headed and his pushes are more questioning than vindictive. I also doubt a scum!Rels would say I could be town for being afk. justanothertownie - town lean - + Show Spoiler + #348 feels like an odd open, the way he defends Rit while dismissing his plan suggests he has a strong town read on rit; #544 & # 557 are both solid posts from Jat, I like how he's applying critical thinking but not being quick to conclusions Can't recall if I've actually played with JAT before so not sure what his scum range is, but he is probably town from the way he is processing things ritoky - slight scum lean - + Show Spoiler + The whole VT claim, fishing, w/e thing seems off to me. It's not so much that Rit played it so poorly, but that he put so much focus on it. I found one LS read from him early on I liked, #285, but otherwise his first page (actually a large part) of filter is all about his brilliant play. #816 also shows that Rit knew there was a chance his play might never even work (he knows that Scum QT's are often provided with fake claim info). #827 claims to give no fucks, but 832 keeps defending his plan and telling people it was good seems like he gives several fucks. It's like Rit knows his plan didn't work, played it bad, but is really concerned that people know it was done with pure intentions. I'm just not feeling like Rit's actions match what he claims he was doing here. #798 is a pretty weak read on Super imo, I wouldn't put that past a scum!super at all. Posts like #404 is more what I'd expect from town!Rit, simple to the point reads. sicklucker - Town lean - + Show Spoiler + #162 feels like a bit of a hop on vote; So not much really stood out to me from SL, but he's not giving a shit how he comes off to people and I can see the reasoning behind his pushes pretty clearly. Hard to explain but he feels town Alakaslam - Scum - + Show Spoiler + I really disliked Slams reactions after his shot went off, he pushes blame off on others, some of his explanation on the shot seems convoluted, and he basically fucked off after defending himself. I'm not seeing anything he's done to contribute to this game. #137 right off the bat this feels odd, it's quite clear what koshi is doing with that (reffering to his list postings); #363 says he would have shot Rsoul; #409 now suggests he's rethinking and must sleep on it?; #655 says everyone being butthurt makes him not want to cooperate, but everything he's done has been acting on his own thus far... Slam hasn't even given reads; #678 says he considered shooting Kuru or Gum, went with gum kus of bad meta useage (as in gum was sorta scum reading slam); #844 says he was agreeing with Kuru and shot Gum, then suggests he's mad he's getting the blame; #1140 the timeline in this is wrong, Slam says he thought about retracting the shot before bed, woke up thinking about it, then remembered his original reason for scum reading gum... how did he forget why he wanted to shoot gum in all the "thinking" time he had? It's really weird how Slam says he was both considering shooting Kuru but agreeing with him on gum at the same time. He also never mentions his thought about shooting Rsoul after the shot goes off, there is too much not making sense to me here, besides the fact that slam shot a fairly active person so early with so little thought given Tumblewood - Null/slight town lean - + Show Spoiler + #278 tumble's open, it adds nothing and look terrible... probably town; #286 another post that does little to impact the game, fits with town meta #329 feels like Tumble is setting up blame for a town flip from gum rather than looking for voting modivations; #670 really doesn't make sense, especially why he is SURE slam is town here I'd prob put Tumble down as town for meta, but that's not a great town read Shapelog - Null - + Show Spoiler + #181 post mirrors my thinking; #187 reads seem weird, not sure why he's TRing slam; #283 I dont get this post, it's a wierd response to LS; #623 feels really wishywashy to me, like he's really avoiding coming to conclusions; #711 this focus on VA seems odd when there are multiple people, like myself, who are not really playing, shape himself has pointed us out #716 maybe just a little too eager to please & respond? Shape's overall tone and attitude gives me a town feel, but his reads feel a little off to me and he's being kinda wishywashy while focusing on weird things. Vivax - Town - + Show Spoiler + I like this style of play from vivax, it screams town to me. #262 I like this "fuck off let me do my thing" attitude coupled with promising to behave, plus I like his points; #324 huge stream of thought type post, unlikely from mafia; #634 yea, never lynch vivax rsoultin - Scum lean - + Show Spoiler + #327 open post that tries to talk about a ton, but says nothing; #331 is a bad post, it says nothing while implying people are scum, it's also a surface reaction which shows no effort in reading tumble; #1017 this tunnel on Rit feels a little forced, even though I agree he's sus; #1019 these "I'm not the lynch" style posts feel so blah to me, #1117 weird vote given how focused she's been on Rit, also unsure where this read on Kuru comes from kinda like #353 and #358 is the sorta attitude you get from a town not giving a fuck While I have a similar suspiscion of Rit, Rsoul doesn't seem to be willing to look at Rit possibly being town while asking others to do the same for herself. Combined with her sudden burst of activity when she was being voted on, and her odd vote while semi-giving up pushing Rit, I'm having a hard time seeing Rsoul as town. LightningStrike - scum lean - + Show Spoiler + #172-173 kinda odd how defensive of Slam he is being, especially give gum wasn't really pushing slam; #196 Promising to check things and taking a lot of middle of the road stances; #277 omgus feels out of place, #279 he is over-defensive over something simple; #534 feels a little opportunistic, #891 really good non-answer... ; I know LS has something of a reputation of being lynchbait, but I'm not getting much from him that suggests he's trying to solve the game here. I only recall him posting some town and null reads, never got the sense that he has scum reads Superbia - Town - + Show Spoiler + #135 half joking/half down to buisness; #174 not sure where this TR on slam comes from; #192 good points, also adds to my own thoughts about #187; #242 strong post, gives me strong town feels; #501 - 505 love this train of thought breaking down the gum wagon Attitutde & tone feels town, paranoid about people town reading him, probably has done the most to try to sovle the game Can you explain to me what's the point of putting in all this effort to make this post with all those reads when you haven't even read the rest of the thread which could change your opinion on everything? You could just read instead. This does not strike me as a towny mindset at all. | ||
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On March 27 2016 20:33 Kurumi wrote: I crumbed it earlier, was on him since the very first post and had a big post on him before the deadline? Why would I NOT should Koshi? I like the idea of shooting lurkers, but given that we have too many of them I wanted to kill the guy who is not the most active nor the least, so the perfect scum spot. Because there is no way in hell that Koshi survives this game. If he is town we will make him show his colors. If he is mafia we will lynch him anyways. We will know his alignment soon enough. He is an awful shot. I do not like this claim at all. | ||
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On March 27 2016 20:37 Kurumi wrote: I am not giving Mafia a single additional role action, not after RoL Poisoner fiasco in the first one. No chance. No chance in fucking hell. I am not waiting on Koshi, his time is up - he had entire D1 to get off his shitty list play and he didn't, he got active during the night being all cocky. Which is mafia indicative how exactly? | ||
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On March 27 2016 20:43 Kurumi wrote: Are you certain of surviving any night ever? I wasn't. I am not. We lynched, I think Toad, based on his line saying that we'll see him tomorrow. He was scum. If that doesn't work for you, then why Koshi puts the most effort during the night, when nothing can be changed? You could have shot someone like ticktock, That would have been helpful. It doesn't matter when Koshi puts in his effort. Putting in effort in itself is never scummy. | ||
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Which is why I'll be revisiting this: On March 26 2016 07:21 justanothertownie wrote: List of usually competent people who really need to step up their game: sandro Koshi ritoky rsoultin (damdred) I will make it my mission to see to enforce this day2. Sandro is doing a decent job now. Damdred is also playing. I might push to lynch one of the others tomorrow unless they get off their asses. I am also tempted push Vivax. | ||
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On March 28 2016 03:07 Koshi wrote: Confirmed Town + Show Spoiler + rsoultin Likely Town + Show Spoiler + Vivax Rels justanothertownie Maybe town + Show Spoiler + ObiWanShinobi Shapelog Damdred LightningStrike Not going to lynch Town + Show Spoiler + VayneAuthority Alakaslam Tictock (if he keeps playing, otherwise kill with no remorse) Null + Show Spoiler + sandroba Won't lynch right now Mafia + Show Spoiler + ritoky Maybe Mafia + Show Spoiler + Kurumi Likely Mafia + Show Spoiler + Tumblewood Confirmed Mafia + Show Spoiler + Superbia sicklucker Game is hard. Explain Vivax and rsoultin. | ||
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On March 28 2016 12:52 rsoultin wrote: if you're certain on jat i'm gonna accept that (within reason) cause the way he was acting around the lynch was actually pretty off. same with sl >< though to be fair it wasn't off in a way that couldn't be town sl. like jat seemed to be sniping at everyone for preferring one lynch over another but didn't actually seem that invested in his own vote, and well sl being sl...i think both have to be left for now, though You really want me to lynch you, eh? | ||
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On March 28 2016 15:00 sicklucker wrote: but if koshis like a third party that cant be killed by kp only lynched or needs to be hit with more then one kp to die. He would claim medic save because thats his only option. So thats one way to explain the second medic theory Thought the same earlier. Koshi being like "I have no say in who the lynch is" etc. just makes me want to lynch him hardcore anyways. | ||
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On March 28 2016 18:23 Vivax wrote: So I guess I'll bump up rso in the scumbook, but then I can't really explain to myself shapes and sandros votes on D1. Sandro did scummy stuff even though he isnt in the super apathetic scum meta I know of him and shape is just a different person than in every other game ive played with him, in which he was always town, so these two guys ive me a pause from fully accepting a rso scum world. wat So sandro, who is actually playing the game unlike most of his scumgames and shape the guy you don't know as mafia prevent you from scumreading rsoultin because they voted for her? Are you serious? | ||
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I will not change this unless Koshi starts playing his towngame. This is ridiculous. | ||
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On March 28 2016 21:39 LightningStrike wrote: I just woke up and sicklucker is full tunnel on me -_- Maybe paranoia because of last game? Tina been defending herself while talking to sicklucker and ritoky. @JAT: Is it possible that Koshi could not have fire as town? Just curious because you played with him more than me. Yes, I played with him a LOT and no, I have never seen this to be the case. The only way Koshi doesn't have fire as town is if he is once again intentionally holding back for retarded reasons. So let's eliminate this small chance by pushing him. | ||
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On March 28 2016 21:53 Superbia wrote: JAT what you think of Vivax? I already said how tempted I am to push him as well. Can easily be mafia. | ||
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On March 28 2016 21:51 LightningStrike wrote: VA and Rels plus probably Koshi if JAT is right on him. See my who I want to lynch post for VA and Rels. Koshi I might sheep JAT one maybe but he my least comfortable lynch atm. Explain to me in detail why VA and Rels. Also explain to me in detail why you are so certain that rsoultin is town. | ||
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On March 28 2016 21:58 sandroba wrote: I'm up for lynching koshi, vivax or rels instead of rsoul. I think I prefer koshi too. @rsoul supposedly you did get an item today which you can use right? Maybe the effect is ultra pro town and you could pehaps "prove" yourself if the rng is your friend. ' Worth a shot I suppose, it's not like we lack scummy people to lynch. That's exactly why I am hesitant to lynch her today. That + her breadcrumbs are legit which doesn't confirm her town but it makes it likely she did not make shit up randomly. | ||
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On March 28 2016 22:08 Vivax wrote: Superbia is 80% mafia cause he misinterepreted my joke post about shitty reads from claims which he wouldn't if he realized that the entire day I spent ranting about that way of forming reads. He's probably trying to rescue rsoultin here by trying to find some shitty mislynch. The first post here (which is the later one) is the post he thinks contained my reads on ritoky and rsoultin when literally two posts before I said the stuff in the second post. Which definitely isn't a townread but a reason to be hesitant to lynch them. A player like superbia is not this bad as town, never. He's one of the best towns around and this game he isn't. Easy scumread. Right... | ||
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Do you see the problem with this? | ||
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On March 28 2016 22:24 Vivax wrote: 100 % mafia Pretty hard to believe this is a genuine reaction tbh. | ||
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On March 28 2016 22:30 Vivax wrote: I don't even see why I should answer this question spam, they're just a way of keeping me busy and give no useful information. If anyone else has useful questions they can be answered.But JAT and super are on the lynch list. The important thing I gained from this is that Koshi is most likely town cause he pointed the finger at the right guys recently. My reads obviously changed since D1 based on stuff that has been happening. Of course I react aggressively to someone using bad and scummy reasoning to try to mislynch me, especially when it's so easy to display how superbia didn't even read up to two posts previous to that post before inventing a reason to paint me scummy. rofl Please go ahead - this will be entertaining. | ||
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On March 28 2016 22:38 Vivax wrote: Im curious to see if you can answer that question, otherwise its a pretty pointless question to have a confident 5 man team or however many there are in a game with people like TT, Slam and a ton of people not playing to their usual metas like Shape and Koshi. But good thing Koshi is out of the way. I can't confidently name 5 people, for today I can only hope that rsoultin flips mafia and I'll know if scum had to pile up to save her yesterday. No, you could also use your brain and make arguments without relying entirely on the day1 lynch. I know you are able to do that. | ||
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If she is mafia - he defended her in an unwarranted way and voted the counterwagon. If she is town - he defended her in an unwarranted way and had to vote accordingly which was no problem since is was tvt. So all you have to do is evaluate his play and you even admit that he isn't playing his towngame. | ||
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On March 28 2016 22:43 Vivax wrote: Rels is good as scum guess, VA is a crapshot, TT is good, Tumble I kinda townread for his daring read on Slam on D1 but it might be a shit read, Koshi depends on your alignment which I lean mafia on cause of you tried to find a quick reason to call me mafia which is proven to be a joke post. I think rsoul/TT/All the vig claims/yourself/JAT/Rels/Shape/Koshi have done suspicious stuff in their own right, I don't know which combination it is until I have more information, but I feel good about lynching rsoultin cause she said I wasn't trying to solve the game when D1 I got townread precisely for that and she didn't try to figure out which mafias were pushing her, instead her pushers got townread and hesitant people scumread based on probably thread sentiment. You got townread for posting a few longish posts with observations early day1. Then you got townread for that and completely disappeared. Saying you weren't trying to figure out the game at this point isn't scummy. It is simply the truth. Btw. tell me since when do you base all your reads on how people treat yourself as town? What you are doing right now is scumreading everyone who is attacking you. | ||
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On March 28 2016 22:53 Vivax wrote: Not everyone, Damdred also said at some point he believes I could be mafia but I felt it was justified to assume for my tendency to simply go afk for days as scum. I pretty much scumread people who push scum on me for shitty reasons a lot of time, but only when I can see why those are shitty reasons. Rsoultins and superbias were shitty reasons. Oh, wow there was one person you didn't immediately omgus. I guess my point is defeated now. Forgive me. | ||
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On March 28 2016 23:08 Vivax wrote: Well it's not a pile on when im third to vote of like 7 or 8 people and on top of it you just leave out the post where I explain why I actually scumread him. Thanks, gives me more confidence that you are mafia, just trying to throw at me whatever can stick and if it doesn't you go look for more ammunition that is just as bad as the previous one. Here's why I voted tubesock. Try finding something more credible on your third attempt. The previous one wasn't scummy, this one wasn't scummy either. The post he just quoted IS very odd. | ||
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On March 28 2016 23:10 sandroba wrote: you mention jat is town in every post damdred, it's a bit weird. no one isn't even going against jat wtf are you talking about? It doesn't matter why he does this - there are several possible explanations regardless of his alignment and none of them is worth talking about. | ||
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On March 28 2016 23:16 Vivax wrote: Well JAT would be fine if he didn't spend all his time just trying to sound witty and taunt me. He's not solving the game or creating information, just spamming it up. Too bad that things go the way I want and your angry omgus style isn't working, hm? | ||
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On March 28 2016 23:18 LightningStrike wrote: JAT to answer your question about Rels and VA: VA is a meta borrowing from(gasp) Kush from Star Wars where I see some of his star wars posting atm and VA was scum there. Rels: Okay he haven't done much stuff and usually tries to be the main voice at times and I not been feeling it this game and a good you had about the obs qt in Cell he forgot to give a read on me plus he would try harder to figure out my alignment. Can you give me examples on how his posting here looks like star wars? Because I vehemently disagree with this. Don't really think I understand the Rels stuff but maybe that's on me. I have trouble concentrating right now. | ||
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On March 28 2016 23:20 VayneAuthority wrote: alright I caught up on the thread im back. Really no reason to post a big post about 800+ posts so I will answer questions if there are any. Specific things that triggered me - 1. voting yesterday. Was pretty dead tbh so trying to decide if that was possibly a town on town lynch or if it was just the holiday weekend. 2. I was thinking rels could be scum at some point then i started reading a bunch of posts of people i want nothing to do with thinking rels is scum which is weird. Potential separating maneuver? I do think Rels is a decent lynch still honestly his reads and paradigm of posting so far are meh. 3. Pretty sure Koshi is doing his play as bad as possible thing to stay alive. I would just assume whatever he says he means the opposite, would explain a lot of his posts/reads. No real point to respond to anything he says until its like day four. 4.This LS/rsoultin/etc circlejerk is still making me gag, please make it go away. Probably read like 20-25 posts reading through of them just sucking eachother off and saying that the other is town for zero reason and they dont want to lynch eachother. Exactly what the policy part of my vote was about. my mafia atm - Rsoultin, Rels, Tictock, Alakaslam, ???? Any opinions regarding the claims? | ||
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On March 28 2016 23:47 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I started agreeing with it and then kind of axed that idea when I started moving people around. Tumble is probably my top scum along with Tt and I've got a few outliers that aren't concrete yet. Then now is the time to push them. So far you don't seem very interested in getting that done. You could start by explaining why Koshi/rsoul aren't good lynches and continue explaining why tumble and TT are. | ||
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On March 29 2016 00:21 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I know, he did that earlier in the game with tumble where he accused him of being scum because of pregame stuff. It's really starting to wear on me. That much is true. You have got stuff to answer though. | ||
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On March 29 2016 00:34 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Rso is one of the outliers I've mentioned so her getting lynched is, imo, not terrible. Though I'm not sure what the case on koshi is? Can someone explain pls? Did you not read anything I wrote about him? Do you actually think this is Koshis usual townplay? I did ask you to explain why you disagree with his lynch. You are not allowed to answer with a counter question. | ||
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On March 29 2016 01:33 Tictock wrote: Just finished pg 98, not sure I like all of these responses from Rsoul, but they aren't terrible. Heres the thing SL, her breadcrumbing looks legit. I definitly believe that she has the role she claims she does, the question is if Engi's would be opposing (of different alignments) or both town sided. Given the description of the role I'm inclined to believe that both Engi's would be town. Of course we only have Rsouls word about the nature of her role... Besides her claim I'm not seeing much that really convinces me that Rsoul is town though. Right now I'm thinking the lynch should be on one of Rsoul, Slam, or Kuru. Slam is kinda tempting simply because I fell like he's been getting some undeserved town reads that make no sense to me, plus the stuff I pointed out rgarding his shot. Noone is ever mafia because he receives undeserved townreads. What about Koshi? On March 29 2016 01:42 Koshi wrote: Wagon of justice coming for me? Yes, it is. | ||
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Why is rsoultin confirmed town? It doesn't make any sense. You can say you are "comitted" as much as you want. I want to know WHY. I also want to know WHY SL is mafia with a vest. | ||
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On March 29 2016 02:37 Koshi wrote: Mafia got a cpr doc. I already told you. If you want to know exactly how mafia kp works I suggest you ask superbia. Why don't you show me why I would need to ask superbia instead? The scenario where mafia targeted you with a cpr doc and you survived because Kurumi shot you is incredibly unlikely. | ||
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On March 29 2016 02:39 Koshi wrote: As town I believe I left enough doubt in the thread. It is not my fault you can't read me. it will be 6 pages full honesty. You guys have nothing on me xcept meta. And I refuse to help you on that part. I have given my full view on who is mafia multiple times and even though I have not given a lot of information on why I think what I think, I have given some. If I get lynched it really is on you people and not on me because I actually did way too much already. lol, ok. Die then. | ||
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On March 29 2016 02:41 VayneAuthority wrote: I see my ignore koshi advice was not heeded. He is legit trolling to stay alive longer Cool, then put us all out of our mísery and vote him right now. | ||
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On March 29 2016 02:51 VayneAuthority wrote: I don't think hes mafia though. if i voted some one for being annoying/supporting mafia the award would go to alakaslam by a landslide. Slam isn't even here though. He might get replaced. Koshi is better than this. The most protown thing you can do is to vote him. | ||
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On March 29 2016 03:00 Vivax wrote: Isnt Rels better than this? Isnt Shape different than this? How can you be so confident it can only be Koshi when at least two other are playing differently just like he is. I dont get the same level of confidence you do just cause its koshi whos being different, it doesnt add up. Of course it adds up. Koshi normally is the fucking innocent child of TL mafia while he has lots of trouble even coming close to that as mafia. He isn't towny this game - so he is either mafia or intentionally playing worse than he can. I do not negotiate with terrorists. I don't know if shape is different. Even if he is - is this his mafia meta? Same with Rels. If you can demonstrate that go ahead. | ||
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What more do you want? | ||
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On March 29 2016 03:12 Damdred wrote: I posted some things about Rels, I sort of think that Koshi is still town though just trolling. I don't care. If he really is "just trolling" then he can fucking die. This game is hard enough without shit like that and if one of the few players who should be good at this game decides to screw town over on purpose then that is on him and I won't even feel bad about lynching him. | ||
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On March 29 2016 03:13 Vivax wrote: I had a few posts of back and forth on Rels with Damdred a few pages ago, Each one of us argues something different. You could also like, have some sort of opinion on it? But somehow you're just sure it's Koshi and besides taunting me you don't see anything interesting besides lynching Koshi and only KOshi? It's like you skipped the thread between superbia attacking me and Koshi coming back to post so you could push Koshi. Yeah, it's not like I commented on you interaction with super, right? Right? Wrong. The case on Rels seems to be "he isn't very active". That is true. But unlike Koshi Rels has 0 problem with being active and pushy as mafia so that alone does not convince me. | ||
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On March 29 2016 03:22 Koshi wrote: JAT seems to be really angry and disappointing about me not calling him mafia 24/7. I will note that down for future games. Yes. It's like you don't love me anymore. | ||
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On March 29 2016 03:23 Tumblewood wrote: Jat this is like 7 pages ago but do you actually think Vivax is scummy for his OMGUSing? Yes. It was completely unwarranted the way he did. | ||
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On March 29 2016 03:24 Vivax wrote: You call it omgusing when someone tries to misrepresent you twice and then somehow thinks he can prove you're mafia by analyzing your sleep schedule? There was no misrepresentation and certainly no reason to all of a sudden declare the guy 100 % mafia. The sleep schedule thing is whatever. | ||
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On March 29 2016 03:25 Vivax wrote: No it was 100 % warranted cause superbia claimed I had town reads on ritoky and rsoultin cause he read 1 out of 3 posts where 2 strongly hinted at my actual opinion and the post he mentioned being a joke post. So, let's assume for a moment that you are right and evil superbia knew that. What's the point of accusing you like this if he knows that you can easily rebut it? It doesn't make sense. | ||
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On March 29 2016 03:29 Koshi wrote: Goddamn JAT you are bad for defending superbia. That is just really bad play. Did you even try to read his filter? I don't care at all about superbia right now. He could be anything. This is about Vivax. What Vivax is saying is simply untrue and his reaction was way overboard. | ||
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On March 29 2016 03:31 Vivax wrote: Some people even fall for awful arguments as long as they don't do fact check but are blinded by the appeareance, if you're town you're one of them. This is why he would do that. The thing is though that I am not swayed by his arguments but by your extremely poor reaction to them. | ||
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On March 29 2016 03:34 Vivax wrote: Spell it out loud that you don't get worked up about shitty arguments being used against you? Of course I do. But I don't immediately assume that shitty arguments can only come from mafia. If you had called him an idiot, questioned his reasoning etc. etc. I would have had 0 problem with that. But all you did was saying he is 100 % mafia. | ||
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You still owe me a defense of Koshi. | ||
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On March 29 2016 03:38 Vivax wrote: That's cause he's skilled at this game in my experience? I played voice mafia with him several times. So if people who I normally assume to be skilled use arguments that completely lack fact checking and were literally just slapped there before he finished reading, then I think those people are mafia, Theres a reason some players are read like "if this guy doesnt lynch mafia before D3 hes mafia". Sometimes bad equals scum and I count superbia among them. There are 0 active mafia players on this site who can be read according to this logic. 0. Whatever. I am not interested in continuing this argument. I won't change my opinion, you won't change yours. Right now I am not lynching you anyways. Move on. | ||
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On March 29 2016 03:40 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I thought I owed you an opinion or something. Well, there are 2 possibilities: 1) You vote Koshi. 2) You explain to me why you don't. | ||
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On March 29 2016 03:43 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Btw Jat, I don't know what you're using to differentiate between koshi's town and scum play because I don't really feel like he's done anything that weird. ... here we are again... Town Koshi push reads, have understandable reasoning, be very emotional about, be relentless, be active, be obvious town This Koshi push no reads, have no reasoning, don't be emotional, don't be relentless, don't be active, don't be town | ||
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What about it? | ||
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On March 29 2016 03:51 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Was it not the counterpoint to your case? No? | ||
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On March 29 2016 03:53 Koshi wrote: I really don't understand why people actually think I am mafia tbh. Even the meta is pretty off. I am pretty sure I have not played like this as mafia. It's completely different. But maybe I evolved a bit. It is easier to evolve my mafia meta to this than it is that you people actually believe I prefer to play town like this. You answered your own question. If you play town like this you are borderline playing against your wincon and I really don't give a shit if I mislynch someone doing that. | ||
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On March 29 2016 03:54 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I feel like this conversation is going to get stale pretty fast. Why not? You don't get to avoid every request with a question and then ask me more questions which have obvious answers. Koshis post disproves nothing I said. How about you give YOUR opinion once in a while? | ||
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On March 29 2016 04:00 Koshi wrote: I will not answer to you anymore. It is obvious you are trying to enrage me taunting me. I will say this once. This lynch is on you, you are fucking horrible not being able to read me, I did everything a good townie would do. Endgame this will never be on me. Of course it will be on you. And the irony is off the charts coming from the guy who hardcore pushed me when we were both town in almost every game we ever played in. | ||
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On March 29 2016 03:58 Koshi wrote: I also don't really know what I can do to "proof" I am town. Things I did: 1) Gave my reads on everybody in the game constantly, they were updated constantly. A lot of changes were made. 2) Answered questions asked to me. 3) Made twice a list with bullet points on who I think is mafia. 4) My reads are currently still 100% correct. 5) I have not pushed mafia agenda. Nobody here can proof I did. Even as town I could push mafia agenda but even that you guys can't proof. 6) kept up with the game and adjusted my reads based on events. You can't say I didn't play this game as a good townie would. I just didn't post 15 pages of nonsense and yelled at people. Summary: You did the bare minimum to be able to survive. You did not push anything. Is this supposed to be a towncase? | ||
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On March 29 2016 04:16 ObiWanShinobi wrote: If this falls through I'll probably just roll with Vivax/Jat on their lynch and hope they're seeing something that I don't. Yeah. Why push something or even elaborate on any opinion or read ever. That's just waaay too hard work man. | ||
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On March 29 2016 05:00 VayneAuthority wrote: oh shit deadline is today already? I missed more then I thought I would. These wagons are super confusing to say the least. i think everyone on Tumblewood is town though so nbd. People on rsoultin is a clusterfuck so makes me more hesitant. People on koshi are lynching by merit rather then playing mafia, fair enough not my playstyle though. People on Koshi are lynching Koshi for being scummy. If that is not playing mafia then I don't know what is. | ||
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On March 29 2016 05:06 VayneAuthority wrote: When has he ever spam posted stupid theories and been super belligerent as mafia though and not even attempted to try and look good? I honestly can't think of any examples or anywhere this game even remotely resembles his mafia play but maybe you know something im missing Never in this game has he been super belligerent unless you are saying refusing to play his towngame is belligerent rather than a thing he can't do anything about as mafia. I also don't remember him spamposting stupid theories. | ||
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On March 29 2016 05:29 rsoultin wrote: talk about something worthwhile or shut up -_- you're a pain in the ass no u | ||
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On March 29 2016 05:31 rsoultin wrote: you saying my read on kuru is worthless, cause if you are i'd like to know why. you can leave the snippy at the door You were talking about the thing were Tube attacked Kurumi, yes? Because if you are then the things tube said were still ridiculous even though he was town. And I was the one who jumped your throat about that. So I really wonder how this would make it more likely for kurumi to be mafia. | ||
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On March 29 2016 05:37 rsoultin wrote: is this it? i'm sorry, but koshi's really shit as scum...like no his play hasn't been shoot you between the eyes duh no doubt town!koshi i agree but it's nowhere near his scum play either, i feel. do you disagree with that? like do you honestly have an example of him this involved/reactive as scum, even if it fell off later? He isn't involved at all. And yes, there are mafia games where he survives a few days without straight afking. Go look for them yourself. | ||
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On March 29 2016 05:39 Koshi wrote: Not involved? Holy shit. I have been superinvolved. You are really just really tunneled and extremely bad at the game. It has to be both this game. Sorry. Just true. You haven't even TRIED to get a guy you list under CONFIRMED FUCKING MAFIA lynched. If someone is extremely bad at this game then it is you. Unless you are just mafia. | ||
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On March 29 2016 05:41 rsoultin wrote: no. my experience with koshi says otherwise, so if you say these games exist it's on you to show them, or at least name them this close to lynch All it takes is a quick look at the database. You don't even have to open the filters listed there since you can determine how long he lasted without doing so. | ||
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On March 29 2016 05:46 rsoultin wrote: ...are you honest to god telling me that by looking at how long koshi lasted i'll instantly be able to tell how he played in the game? rofl >< that's stupid jat even you must see that. what is the game you're thinking of? surely you have something in mind? people don't make blanket statements without games in their head they just don't Look, if you want to piss me off I can also just lynch you instead. | ||
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On March 29 2016 05:48 Koshi wrote: I have made multiple posts on why he is mafia. I cba to make 4 pages or 80 posts on why he is mafia. If you prefer to believe I am mafia over superbia. Or that you think I should be lynched over superbia than that is because it is you who is extremely bad at the game. You think you are using meta on me. But at this point even that meta is so flimsy I don't know if you are mafia just bullshitting or just really really bad at the game. At least some of the people currently in this thread see the truth. That is all I need. This wagon on me formed quite quickly when I was afk and since then all the people on my wagon dissapeared. Probably because their head isn't as far up their ass as yours is. It is truly magnificent to see how you are trying to blame me for getting lynched. You are truly terrible JAT. Congratz. Signed Koshi I don't care. If you don't try to win as town - you can die. Signed JAT | ||
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On March 29 2016 05:56 rsoultin wrote: pues okay i found one where yeah he can scrounge up limited activity as scum, but he's got a similar filter there after 5 day phases to his one here after 2 day phases so meh -_- can you give your points in brief? I assume you are talking about the game he replaced into. Normal mini something something. | ||
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On March 29 2016 05:56 Vivax wrote: Scummy as fuck post tbh, thread police but not really trying to be useful prior to 10 min pre deadline. We still have an hour bro | ||
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On March 29 2016 06:00 rsoultin wrote: it was early -_- why are you...gah is there a reason you're being obstructive? other than by nature? Let's see... Maybe because everyone aknowledges what I say about Koshi is true but still dismisses the possibility of him being mafia? Like you do for example? | ||
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On March 29 2016 06:04 rsoultin wrote: dude i'm trying to verify your claim and see if i'm wrong and you're being an ass. if you're salty cause you're not being listened to, at least have the presence of mind to recognize it when someone's trying to engage with you and figure out where you're coming from nvm i'm just gonna look at this on my own. you prob should take a breather if you're this tilted -_- It's not about this looking like scumKoshi. ScumKoshi does not have a fixed look or behaviour. It is about this being NOT townKoshi who DOES have a fixed look and behaviour. | ||
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On March 29 2016 06:11 rsoultin wrote: so you're telling me to database dive for no reason...even better -_- This is what I said from the beginning. I only told you about the database since you insisted that scum koshi wouldn't be able to fool people. | ||
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On March 29 2016 06:06 rsoultin wrote: yeah take a breather and look at my kuru points please. least you can do if i'm plumbing the entire fucking database here -_- What Kuru points are you talking about? The fact that he wasn't around after the flip? Doesn't convince me. | ||
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On March 29 2016 06:14 LightningStrike wrote: I just got home and I see Tina,Koshi ,and Tumble are up for lynch. Ugh I don't Tina to be lynched that for sure. Idk about Koshi and Tumble lynches. This is hard to think who would be scum ebtween tumble and koshi.... Ok, this is your last chance to explain to me why you write stuff like the bolded before I call bullshit on you. Why are you so sure that she is town? | ||
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On March 29 2016 06:22 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Everyone piles onto my lynch again... Now I'm paranoid. D: Nononono. People piling onto your half assed push are town. Remember? Nothing to worry. | ||
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On March 29 2016 06:23 rsoultin wrote: ye actually i misremembered @.@ it was his reaction when i pointed out that tube's scumread was because the case was super unnecessary and over the top at the time, which i agreed with, not just because he "made" a case then he reacts like a loon + Show Spoiler + On March 26 2016 00:30 Kurumi wrote: He said my post was too big for the time of the game and that only scum would push gumshoe, because he was so obviously scummy that it was obvious that he was town PRETTY EASY TO SAY THAT WE HAS TOWNIE AFTER HE ALREADY FLIPPED, HUH? On March 26 2016 00:38 Kurumi wrote: That's what he said. He said I made an ultra big post (lol no read maybe games from 2012 or so) that I nitpicked (lol no) and ME PUSHING GUM MADE HIM THINK GUM IS INNOCENT, like his reasoning for gum being town while he was reading the thread is because someone scumread him (just like Tube himself!) and began pushing him. I wonder what Tube would've done on my spot, probably pat gumshoe on the back and tell him "oh man you are such a townie looking like obvious scum hahahahaha" and then proceed to wait for someone to put effort in the game and call them scum, because town-meta is that the first person to put effort is scum, because effort is not needed to win games when it's Romantic era, FEELINGS AND PRAYERS ARE THE WAY On March 26 2016 00:41 Kurumi wrote: like I can imagine sandroba making a case on me and Tubesock voting sandroba BECAUSE I AM SO OBVIOUSLY SCUM THAT A CASE ON ME MUST COME FROM SCUM On March 26 2016 00:44 Kurumi wrote: HE HAD LIKE THREE VOTES ON HIM AND ONE FROM SICKLUCKER WHO SAID IT WAS A PRESSURE VOTE HIMSELF HE WAS NOWHERE BEING LYNCHED AM I THE ONLY PERSON LITERATE ENOUGH TO READ WHAT PEOPLE WRITE IN THIS GAME ^ even though i thought this was over the top, it wasn't even this that clinched it in my mind. it was the fact that i kept asking him for other scumreads but all he did was all caps here in what looked pretty fake ragey fit shit to me then fucked off until his post right before the day post...so not here at deadline, not willing to discuss anything, not here all night seemed a lot like he was reaching and just trying to justify an afk vote and my probing caught him flatfooted Yeah, sorry but this is exactly what I mentioned earlier and I still think it was justified. Tubesocks attack WAS bs. | ||
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wtf dude | ||
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On March 29 2016 06:35 sicklucker wrote: CaN the people that see koshi and rstoul are working together plz help me consolidate on one of them and not have this split shit vote where they get away from lynch bait You can start by voting Koshi who has more votes than rsoultin. | ||
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On March 29 2016 06:36 sicklucker wrote: Tumblewood (6): VayneAuthority, ObiWanShinobi, Damdred, Koshi, Vivax, Tictock of these only Va diddnt vote tubesock fuck patterns do you not see them? Sure. If rsoultin is mafia tumble probably isn't. But you don't need that information to come to that conclusion considering they are both ´wagons right now. | ||
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On March 29 2016 06:38 rsoultin wrote: jat, that read progression spamming excitement koshi had early game just makes it really hard for me to see him as scum here rsoul, the fact that never in this game did Koshi try to get any of his scumreads lynched just makes it really hard for me to see him as town here He basically doesn't care at all who gets lynched as long as it isn't him. | ||
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On March 29 2016 06:41 rsoultin wrote: ye voted tumble obv "obv" | ||
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You think that he made a post saying super is 100 % scum equals him trying to get the guy lynched? Did you ever play with Koshi? | ||
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On March 29 2016 06:44 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I would, I think. Jat, what do you think? Seems like a total crapshoot to me. | ||
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On March 29 2016 06:47 rsoultin wrote: there's a ton of posts on super have you been paying attention? There isn't a ton of posts and he never tries to convince anyone with it or get someone to vote super. | ||
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On March 29 2016 06:54 Damdred wrote: There will be why shouldn't we switch to you tt Maybe because there is only one vote on him and deadline is in 5 minutes while we already have 3 fucking wagons for you to choose from. | ||
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On March 29 2016 06:54 Tictock wrote: Do it guys, I'm prob not getting any better, and I'm not gunna fight it. ....... | ||
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On March 29 2016 06:58 sicklucker wrote: I HAVE ON IDEA WHAT THE VOTECOUNT IS I CANT LYNCH WOH I WANT TO LYNCH IN THE ORDER I WANT yeah.. what the actual fuck | ||
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On March 29 2016 07:09 sicklucker wrote: huh so now we know who saved koshi. You morons got lucky I sapose but thats huge. For the record dont switch with 3 minutes left. While I didnt care much about ticktock one way or the other I had an order of prefured lynches and by not having a vote count and I had no chance to get my best perceived possible lynch Yes. | ||
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On March 29 2016 07:10 Rels wrote: or actually you need to CLAIM next day Yes. You claim day3 if you saved koshi. Otherwise we lynch him. | ||
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On March 29 2016 07:18 LightningStrike wrote: Honestly I think Mafia were caught with their pants down with that lynch in 5 mins before deadline. You think so? I can basically guarantee you that people bussed. | ||
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On March 29 2016 07:36 Damdred wrote: I will say this it's possible it's a CPR doc and they were killing koshi without a shot I guess? But that sounds way to op No fucking way. Not only would this role have a different name but like you said it is op. | ||
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On March 29 2016 03:18 Koshi wrote: I don't understand why people say I am trolling. These are my reads. I am not constantly posting and rereading because I don't want to do that and because I had 4 days of work and I got more pleasant things to do. Voting me because I am not obvious town is really bad play. I am still more town than some others are. Also, my reads are probably pretty good, but because I am not sure of that yet I can't really be too obnoxious about it. Also really odd to say the cpr doc thing is "the final nail on the coffin", because it is almost the only thing that could actually have happened in case kurumi is town. Or it was [retracted] who saved me :D. There is 1 who might have done it lol. You weren't by chance talking about THIS GUY: On March 27 2016 20:00 Tictock wrote: Finished reading up till EoD. This vote is really odd as a final count, both Rsoul and Tube voting Kuru and everyone piled on them... could be a TvT. I think one of Kuru or Rsoul is probably scum though. Reads at this point: VayneAuthority - Null - + Show Spoiler + Drops a half assed read on Rsoul #547, pretty much only thing he's firm about and leaves. Could be townie not giving a fuck or scum dropping a vote and outing. Kurumi - Scum lean - + Show Spoiler + #216 kinda an odd open, he really just rambles about a couple of different people in one post; Gum pointed out this interesting bit in #268; #305 alot more rambling and the conclusion that gum is for sure scum feels kinda over the top; #495 stopped reading after the "bollocks I was really wrong, I really was too harsh" reaction to gum flipping town; #870 kinda like this post, feels genuine... could prob come from scum though; #1008 actually like this response; #1071 really weak vote, opportunistic and rife with omgus; WoT's feely rambling like they have no read drive/motivation behind them, reads seem kinda weak and opportunistic for how much he likes to write Stutters695 - Turns out was a blue... Damdred - mild scum lean - + Show Spoiler + #166 decent post, shows critical thought and is pushing for info; #300 decent reads, disagree about Vivax and LS though; #379 mimics Jat in making the "sensible statement here" also the snap defense of LS feels off even if he's townreading him; #1264 don't like this vote, #959 pile of garbage that boils down to "don't lynch me, I'm a good player!"; #1055 says he likes this post from Tube but in #1264 he plops his vote on Tube with no real explanation (actually never did find much about his Tube read rechecking his filter) Weird vote on Tube, not explained and he had recently quoted a post he liked, a few townie posts but nothing I haven't seen Damdred do as scum before sandroba - town - + Show Spoiler + #966 felt same way about SL's gum vote; #967 weird he doesn't know gum got shot; all in all the thought dumb from #966 to 972 feels pretty towny; Feels alot like sandroba from last game ObiWanShinobi - town lean -+ Show Spoiler + #957 and #1000 seems like Obi is being fairly forward with his thoughts Koshi - town - + Show Spoiler + Easiest read in the game, I have posts noted for him but why bother... Rels - town lean - + Show Spoiler + #439-440 jumps in with stuff on his mind; #537 exactly my thought; #1280 I like this catch; I read Rels by the way he pushes on people and things, as scum he tends to nitpick and will overpush little things, here he feels level headed and his pushes are more questioning than vindictive. I also doubt a scum!Rels would say I could be town for being afk. justanothertownie - town lean - + Show Spoiler + #348 feels like an odd open, the way he defends Rit while dismissing his plan suggests he has a strong town read on rit; #544 & # 557 are both solid posts from Jat, I like how he's applying critical thinking but not being quick to conclusions Can't recall if I've actually played with JAT before so not sure what his scum range is, but he is probably town from the way he is processing things ritoky - slight scum lean - + Show Spoiler + The whole VT claim, fishing, w/e thing seems off to me. It's not so much that Rit played it so poorly, but that he put so much focus on it. I found one LS read from him early on I liked, #285, but otherwise his first page (actually a large part) of filter is all about his brilliant play. #816 also shows that Rit knew there was a chance his play might never even work (he knows that Scum QT's are often provided with fake claim info). #827 claims to give no fucks, but 832 keeps defending his plan and telling people it was good seems like he gives several fucks. It's like Rit knows his plan didn't work, played it bad, but is really concerned that people know it was done with pure intentions. I'm just not feeling like Rit's actions match what he claims he was doing here. #798 is a pretty weak read on Super imo, I wouldn't put that past a scum!super at all. Posts like #404 is more what I'd expect from town!Rit, simple to the point reads. sicklucker - Town lean - + Show Spoiler + #162 feels like a bit of a hop on vote; So not much really stood out to me from SL, but he's not giving a shit how he comes off to people and I can see the reasoning behind his pushes pretty clearly. Hard to explain but he feels town Alakaslam - Scum - + Show Spoiler + I really disliked Slams reactions after his shot went off, he pushes blame off on others, some of his explanation on the shot seems convoluted, and he basically fucked off after defending himself. I'm not seeing anything he's done to contribute to this game. #137 right off the bat this feels odd, it's quite clear what koshi is doing with that (reffering to his list postings); #363 says he would have shot Rsoul; #409 now suggests he's rethinking and must sleep on it?; #655 says everyone being butthurt makes him not want to cooperate, but everything he's done has been acting on his own thus far... Slam hasn't even given reads; #678 says he considered shooting Kuru or Gum, went with gum kus of bad meta useage (as in gum was sorta scum reading slam); #844 says he was agreeing with Kuru and shot Gum, then suggests he's mad he's getting the blame; #1140 the timeline in this is wrong, Slam says he thought about retracting the shot before bed, woke up thinking about it, then remembered his original reason for scum reading gum... how did he forget why he wanted to shoot gum in all the "thinking" time he had? It's really weird how Slam says he was both considering shooting Kuru but agreeing with him on gum at the same time. He also never mentions his thought about shooting Rsoul after the shot goes off, there is too much not making sense to me here, besides the fact that slam shot a fairly active person so early with so little thought given Tumblewood - Null/slight town lean - + Show Spoiler + #278 tumble's open, it adds nothing and look terrible... probably town; #286 another post that does little to impact the game, fits with town meta #329 feels like Tumble is setting up blame for a town flip from gum rather than looking for voting modivations; #670 really doesn't make sense, especially why he is SURE slam is town here I'd prob put Tumble down as town for meta, but that's not a great town read Shapelog - Null - + Show Spoiler + #181 post mirrors my thinking; #187 reads seem weird, not sure why he's TRing slam; #283 I dont get this post, it's a wierd response to LS; #623 feels really wishywashy to me, like he's really avoiding coming to conclusions; #711 this focus on VA seems odd when there are multiple people, like myself, who are not really playing, shape himself has pointed us out #716 maybe just a little too eager to please & respond? Shape's overall tone and attitude gives me a town feel, but his reads feel a little off to me and he's being kinda wishywashy while focusing on weird things. Vivax - Town - + Show Spoiler + I like this style of play from vivax, it screams town to me. #262 I like this "fuck off let me do my thing" attitude coupled with promising to behave, plus I like his points; #324 huge stream of thought type post, unlikely from mafia; #634 yea, never lynch vivax rsoultin - Scum lean - + Show Spoiler + #327 open post that tries to talk about a ton, but says nothing; #331 is a bad post, it says nothing while implying people are scum, it's also a surface reaction which shows no effort in reading tumble; #1017 this tunnel on Rit feels a little forced, even though I agree he's sus; #1019 these "I'm not the lynch" style posts feel so blah to me, #1117 weird vote given how focused she's been on Rit, also unsure where this read on Kuru comes from kinda like #353 and #358 is the sorta attitude you get from a town not giving a fuck While I have a similar suspiscion of Rit, Rsoul doesn't seem to be willing to look at Rit possibly being town while asking others to do the same for herself. Combined with her sudden burst of activity when she was being voted on, and her odd vote while semi-giving up pushing Rit, I'm having a hard time seeing Rsoul as town. LightningStrike - scum lean - + Show Spoiler + #172-173 kinda odd how defensive of Slam he is being, especially give gum wasn't really pushing slam; #196 Promising to check things and taking a lot of middle of the road stances; #277 omgus feels out of place, #279 he is over-defensive over something simple; #534 feels a little opportunistic, #891 really good non-answer... ; I know LS has something of a reputation of being lynchbait, but I'm not getting much from him that suggests he's trying to solve the game here. I only recall him posting some town and null reads, never got the sense that he has scum reads Superbia - Town - + Show Spoiler + #135 half joking/half down to buisness; #174 not sure where this TR on slam comes from; #192 good points, also adds to my own thoughts about #187; #242 strong post, gives me strong town feels; #501 - 505 love this train of thought breaking down the gum wagon Attitutde & tone feels town, paranoid about people town reading him, probably has done the most to try to sovle the game who suddenly townread you for no fucking reason after no kills happened? Were you actually setting him up to fakeclaim? | ||
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On March 29 2016 07:58 Superbia wrote: I have some thinking to do. :p I am really hoping town doc did not save koshi though. I am almost 100 % certain Koshi at least got hit by KP because Ticktock clearly tried to set up a claim which would pretty much make Koshi mafia. Unless Kurumi is mafia with Ticktock that is. | ||
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Who were the discussed vig shots night 1? Stutters and Ticktock. Stutters is town. Ticktock most likely can't save himself. Who was set to be lynched day2 according to townleaders? Koshi. People therefore might shoot him. Koshi is the logical save. The only other option would be rsoultin if she was mafia. | ||
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On March 29 2016 08:09 Koshi wrote: No it wasn't. I could tell you who but maybe he really saved me! Sure, wait until it's daytime. | ||
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On March 29 2016 08:22 sandroba wrote: I'm starting to think there are 2 mafia teams -_- Where the fuck were you? :/ | ||
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On March 29 2016 08:26 Koshi wrote: it's probably wrong. unless Kurumi is actually brilliant and set this TT doc thing up. But I doubt that because Kurumi never wanted to see TT die I think. This is impossible. Ticktock CLEARLY set up a claim of saving you here: On March 27 2016 20:00 Tictock wrote: Finished reading up till EoD. This vote is really odd as a final count, both Rsoul and Tube voting Kuru and everyone piled on them... could be a TvT. I think one of Kuru or Rsoul is probably scum though. Reads at this point: VayneAuthority - Null - + Show Spoiler + Drops a half assed read on Rsoul #547, pretty much only thing he's firm about and leaves. Could be townie not giving a fuck or scum dropping a vote and outing. Kurumi - Scum lean - + Show Spoiler + #216 kinda an odd open, he really just rambles about a couple of different people in one post; Gum pointed out this interesting bit in #268; #305 alot more rambling and the conclusion that gum is for sure scum feels kinda over the top; #495 stopped reading after the "bollocks I was really wrong, I really was too harsh" reaction to gum flipping town; #870 kinda like this post, feels genuine... could prob come from scum though; #1008 actually like this response; #1071 really weak vote, opportunistic and rife with omgus; WoT's feely rambling like they have no read drive/motivation behind them, reads seem kinda weak and opportunistic for how much he likes to write Stutters695 - Turns out was a blue... Damdred - mild scum lean - + Show Spoiler + #166 decent post, shows critical thought and is pushing for info; #300 decent reads, disagree about Vivax and LS though; #379 mimics Jat in making the "sensible statement here" also the snap defense of LS feels off even if he's townreading him; #1264 don't like this vote, #959 pile of garbage that boils down to "don't lynch me, I'm a good player!"; #1055 says he likes this post from Tube but in #1264 he plops his vote on Tube with no real explanation (actually never did find much about his Tube read rechecking his filter) Weird vote on Tube, not explained and he had recently quoted a post he liked, a few townie posts but nothing I haven't seen Damdred do as scum before sandroba - town - + Show Spoiler + #966 felt same way about SL's gum vote; #967 weird he doesn't know gum got shot; all in all the thought dumb from #966 to 972 feels pretty towny; Feels alot like sandroba from last game ObiWanShinobi - town lean -+ Show Spoiler + #957 and #1000 seems like Obi is being fairly forward with his thoughts Koshi - town - + Show Spoiler + Easiest read in the game, I have posts noted for him but why bother... Rels - town lean - + Show Spoiler + #439-440 jumps in with stuff on his mind; #537 exactly my thought; #1280 I like this catch; I read Rels by the way he pushes on people and things, as scum he tends to nitpick and will overpush little things, here he feels level headed and his pushes are more questioning than vindictive. I also doubt a scum!Rels would say I could be town for being afk. justanothertownie - town lean - + Show Spoiler + #348 feels like an odd open, the way he defends Rit while dismissing his plan suggests he has a strong town read on rit; #544 & # 557 are both solid posts from Jat, I like how he's applying critical thinking but not being quick to conclusions Can't recall if I've actually played with JAT before so not sure what his scum range is, but he is probably town from the way he is processing things ritoky - slight scum lean - + Show Spoiler + The whole VT claim, fishing, w/e thing seems off to me. It's not so much that Rit played it so poorly, but that he put so much focus on it. I found one LS read from him early on I liked, #285, but otherwise his first page (actually a large part) of filter is all about his brilliant play. #816 also shows that Rit knew there was a chance his play might never even work (he knows that Scum QT's are often provided with fake claim info). #827 claims to give no fucks, but 832 keeps defending his plan and telling people it was good seems like he gives several fucks. It's like Rit knows his plan didn't work, played it bad, but is really concerned that people know it was done with pure intentions. I'm just not feeling like Rit's actions match what he claims he was doing here. #798 is a pretty weak read on Super imo, I wouldn't put that past a scum!super at all. Posts like #404 is more what I'd expect from town!Rit, simple to the point reads. sicklucker - Town lean - + Show Spoiler + #162 feels like a bit of a hop on vote; So not much really stood out to me from SL, but he's not giving a shit how he comes off to people and I can see the reasoning behind his pushes pretty clearly. Hard to explain but he feels town Alakaslam - Scum - + Show Spoiler + I really disliked Slams reactions after his shot went off, he pushes blame off on others, some of his explanation on the shot seems convoluted, and he basically fucked off after defending himself. I'm not seeing anything he's done to contribute to this game. #137 right off the bat this feels odd, it's quite clear what koshi is doing with that (reffering to his list postings); #363 says he would have shot Rsoul; #409 now suggests he's rethinking and must sleep on it?; #655 says everyone being butthurt makes him not want to cooperate, but everything he's done has been acting on his own thus far... Slam hasn't even given reads; #678 says he considered shooting Kuru or Gum, went with gum kus of bad meta useage (as in gum was sorta scum reading slam); #844 says he was agreeing with Kuru and shot Gum, then suggests he's mad he's getting the blame; #1140 the timeline in this is wrong, Slam says he thought about retracting the shot before bed, woke up thinking about it, then remembered his original reason for scum reading gum... how did he forget why he wanted to shoot gum in all the "thinking" time he had? It's really weird how Slam says he was both considering shooting Kuru but agreeing with him on gum at the same time. He also never mentions his thought about shooting Rsoul after the shot goes off, there is too much not making sense to me here, besides the fact that slam shot a fairly active person so early with so little thought given Tumblewood - Null/slight town lean - + Show Spoiler + #278 tumble's open, it adds nothing and look terrible... probably town; #286 another post that does little to impact the game, fits with town meta #329 feels like Tumble is setting up blame for a town flip from gum rather than looking for voting modivations; #670 really doesn't make sense, especially why he is SURE slam is town here I'd prob put Tumble down as town for meta, but that's not a great town read Shapelog - Null - + Show Spoiler + #181 post mirrors my thinking; #187 reads seem weird, not sure why he's TRing slam; #283 I dont get this post, it's a wierd response to LS; #623 feels really wishywashy to me, like he's really avoiding coming to conclusions; #711 this focus on VA seems odd when there are multiple people, like myself, who are not really playing, shape himself has pointed us out #716 maybe just a little too eager to please & respond? Shape's overall tone and attitude gives me a town feel, but his reads feel a little off to me and he's being kinda wishywashy while focusing on weird things. Vivax - Town - + Show Spoiler + I like this style of play from vivax, it screams town to me. #262 I like this "fuck off let me do my thing" attitude coupled with promising to behave, plus I like his points; #324 huge stream of thought type post, unlikely from mafia; #634 yea, never lynch vivax rsoultin - Scum lean - + Show Spoiler + #327 open post that tries to talk about a ton, but says nothing; #331 is a bad post, it says nothing while implying people are scum, it's also a surface reaction which shows no effort in reading tumble; #1017 this tunnel on Rit feels a little forced, even though I agree he's sus; #1019 these "I'm not the lynch" style posts feel so blah to me, #1117 weird vote given how focused she's been on Rit, also unsure where this read on Kuru comes from kinda like #353 and #358 is the sorta attitude you get from a town not giving a fuck While I have a similar suspiscion of Rit, Rsoul doesn't seem to be willing to look at Rit possibly being town while asking others to do the same for herself. Combined with her sudden burst of activity when she was being voted on, and her odd vote while semi-giving up pushing Rit, I'm having a hard time seeing Rsoul as town. LightningStrike - scum lean - + Show Spoiler + #172-173 kinda odd how defensive of Slam he is being, especially give gum wasn't really pushing slam; #196 Promising to check things and taking a lot of middle of the road stances; #277 omgus feels out of place, #279 he is over-defensive over something simple; #534 feels a little opportunistic, #891 really good non-answer... ; I know LS has something of a reputation of being lynchbait, but I'm not getting much from him that suggests he's trying to solve the game here. I only recall him posting some town and null reads, never got the sense that he has scum reads Superbia - Town - + Show Spoiler + #135 half joking/half down to buisness; #174 not sure where this TR on slam comes from; #192 good points, also adds to my own thoughts about #187; #242 strong post, gives me strong town feels; #501 - 505 love this train of thought breaking down the gum wagon Attitutde & tone feels town, paranoid about people town reading him, probably has done the most to try to sovle the game Kurumi did not claim his shot until 16 minutes later: On March 27 2016 20:26 Kurumi wrote: I shot Koshi and he is still alive, any takers? Sorry I have not posted since the last post, I had to get it posted and then rush to another place, since family time! So if Kurumi is town there is 0 way for Ticktock to know you were shot. It is CONFIRMED that one of you and Kurumi is mafia. Since you are actually playing now maybe it is Kurumi. But one of you is scum 100 %. | ||
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On March 29 2016 09:14 Koshi wrote: JAT, how did he set up a docsave on me? He just says I am 100% town? Which was a brilliant read of him! It was at a point where noone was townreading you and several people had stated they wanted to lynch you. And look at the words he uses. Easiest read in the game etc etc. Sorry but it is obvious. Nobody would state this read as mafia in this situation. | ||
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On March 29 2016 09:19 Koshi wrote: You may or may not be going insane. probably are. Look, I know you are pretty stupid. But even you must realize that there wasn't anything that warranted a read this strong at that point which by chance came exactly after you supposedly were targeted by KP and just before someone else claims said KP. If you are town then Kurumi is mafia. | ||
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Then how the hell did Ticktock know you were shot? Because he clearly did. No matter how much you overrate yourself, that read never happens otherwise. | ||
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Don't you see how irrational that is? If someone actually saved you he needs to claim immediately day3 because otherwise we won't lynch anyone else but Kurumi and you. | ||
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On March 29 2016 09:27 Rels wrote: JAT why do you say TT knew Koshi was shot ? He was a doc and said this before Kurumi claimed his shot: Koshi - town - Easiest read in the game, I have posts noted for him but why bother... At a time where noone in the game really townread koshi and the thread sentiment was to lynch him. They were probably going for a play here. If Koshi is mafia he saved him and was going to sell it as a townsave. If Koshi is town he made the plan with Kurumi who claimed to have shot Koshi only 26 minutes later. | ||
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On March 29 2016 09:34 Rels wrote: This only works with Kurumi, with Koshi he had no way of knowing vig shot Koshi, unless his role indicates him when he save his target maybe. Of course not but in that case he still visited Koshi and for all investigative purposes he was saving him so it is something you could fakeclaim very well when KP are missing. Judging by Koshis behaviour right now it is more likely that it is kurumi anyways though. | ||
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On March 29 2016 09:34 Koshi wrote: SHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh don't give him a bad trip. Jeezus. Maybe his head will explode. Where was your whole obnoxiousness earlier? If you hadn't hid your whole assholeish stupidity for no reason you wouldn't have been pushed at all and we wouldn't have wasted all this time. What's the point of playing like a retard only to throw your whole new style away AFTER you avoided the mislynch?! How retarded is that? | ||
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On March 29 2016 09:39 Koshi wrote: You are still going with this? seriously? Why would they do this? Why would mafia Kurumi tell mafia TT to claim a safe on me before he claims a shot? Why??????? Holy mozes are you insane? Because it saves both of them should they be on the block. It makes both of them look towny. Kurumi is able to sit on this claim and ticktock could have claimed if wagoned (which was fortunately averted by a last second wagon). How can you not realize that this is a good play? | ||
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On March 29 2016 09:40 Koshi wrote: Not only claim a safe on me. But do it in a way only JAT could ever interpret it as one. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA You can bet your arrogant ass that people would have believed the claim with that quote to back it up. If you deny that you are the one who is actually insane. | ||
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On March 29 2016 09:43 Koshi wrote: No seriously JAT. That wasn't a crumb. Everyone will tell you that. It's ok. We all make mistakes. We will see Koshi, we will see. I will quote all those posts if kurumi flips mafia and also add them to your already sizable retard post collage where they can join those ~10 pages of you calling me 100 % mafia when I was town. | ||
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On March 29 2016 09:47 Koshi wrote: Look. Even if I am mafia with TT. How does it make mafia TT ever look good if town Kurumi shot me and then TT saved me? When I flip mafia it doesn't. if TT flips mafia it doesn't. So the scenario in which TT is mafia with me is just ridiculous and I don't udnerstand how you ever entertained that idea. But even in the scenario TT is mafia with Kurumi it is only a good play if I flip town AND kurumi would flip mafia. That is way too long away. And TT would not think kurumi would flip, or for sure not make a play around it. Like... It is the worst and most convoluted way for mafia to gain cred. I don't understand where you are going with it. we are reaching a point it is so insane it actually happened and you are mafia with them and know about it. Wrong. In the scenario where you are mafia and kurumi town it would not make ticktock look bad at all if you flipped mafia. The only bad world is when he flips. In the world where kurumi is mafia which probably is the reality it is always a good play to set this up. Always. Nobody needs to flip anything for this to be good. | ||
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On March 29 2016 09:52 Rels wrote: Even if he backtracked 100%, he still put the spotlight on his teammate if scum when there are several potential lynches happening. Sure, but he could have banked on being ignored like usual. He even agreed with me when I said it was too late when things actually started to happen. | ||
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On March 29 2016 09:51 justanothertownie wrote: Wrong. In the scenario where you are mafia and kurumi town it would not make ticktock look bad at all if you flipped mafia. The only bad world is when he flips. In the world where kurumi is mafia which probably is the reality it is always a good play to set this up. Always. Nobody needs to flip anything for this to be good. To explain this further: With this setup: If TT gets pushed he claims the save on you which is confirmed by Kurumi. Should you ever be lynched and confirmed as town this gives him huge credit and even if you aren't he buys at least a few days by this. Should Kurumi ever flip he gets extra credit. Should he ever flip Kurumi gets extra credit added to the vig claiming making his life easier before that already. There is literally 0 downside to this. | ||
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On March 29 2016 09:57 Koshi wrote: Can somebody else pls politely tell JAT he is going a bit craycray with this docsave crumb by tt? Sure, you say it's not a good play. I show you that it most certainly is. You ignore it and try to insult me. Welcome back town koshi our lord and savior who is a little special. | ||
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You? Weren't you the one saying "this is so cool" ? | ||
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Yeah, that guy is off the table for now. | ||
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On March 29 2016 10:01 Rels wrote: Yeah. There is nothing in TT post that suggests it was a plan. And if there was a plan they didn't do it. And I think kurumi is town. Then what was so cool about that post? That's literally the only content it had. | ||
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Whatever enough talking about this. | ||
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On March 29 2016 10:05 Koshi wrote: no pls don't stop. You are on the brink of convincing us. There is no point ^^ If I am wrong I am wrong - too bad but it was plausible. If I am right I am right which is nice and you look like the dumbest moron on earth which is a double win. | ||
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On March 29 2016 10:14 Rels wrote: JAT rsoul never fakeclaimed right ? How am I supposed to know? I would have to look that up myself. | ||
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On March 29 2016 10:14 rsoultin wrote: ye i'm around lol it worked or maybe it didn't? just carry on ^^ You can't say shit like this and then not continue. | ||
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On March 29 2016 10:18 rsoultin wrote: lol actually i can and i honestly think it's best Whyyyyyyyyyyyy You will have to tell at daytime though. | ||
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On March 29 2016 10:24 Koshi wrote: There is an hour resolution. Goddamn if rsoultin is town I played such a brilliant game. Damdred vivax rels jat shape rsoultin lighteningstrike all correctly identified while other people were sitting on rsoultin koshi scumteams. The mafia still is. But how can you be town if you are still not calling me mafia? Something isn't right. You being right isn't right. | ||
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On March 29 2016 10:31 ObiWanShinobi wrote: He's calling me mafia already so we're halfway there. Doesn't count. You could be mafia and he is never right now me. | ||
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On March 29 2016 10:48 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I think we should probably kill ritoky or something. If there is no medic claim tomorrow we lynch kurumi. But ritoky can absolutely be mafia. | ||
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On March 29 2016 18:15 Koshi wrote: Also ritoky latest post was something about "I don't play games which are a claimfest" while he opened the game trying to find all the greens. This is a decent point. On March 29 2016 21:14 sandroba wrote: @vivax yes rsoul's role does sound farfetched, she should be questioned tomorrow about it no doubt. there is no mention of any refund mechanics on my pm. I seriously doubt kurumi is mafia unless there are 2 mafia teams. I doubt mafia would come out and admit they shot town koshi if they don't know how he survived. Or randomly lie about it on the off chance their medic gets lynched today for that matter. I wouldn't be surprised if all vigis are town, considering mafia has a doc and might as well have a vet according to your theory. Honestly I'm impressed at how much koshi has posted, but the easiest explanation is still that koshi is mafia with TT. This is true but you just have to look at koshis play. If that is mafia he is an impostor and not koshi. On March 29 2016 21:44 Koshi wrote: Kurumi is not mafia. The easiest explanation really is that he got RB. I don't even know why nobody said this earlier. Then nobody had to save me. We really need to know if a rb gives his bullet back. He said he didn't get it back?! So I very much doubt he was rbed unless bullets are also not refunded when rbed but why on earth would mafia rb kurumi? The easiest explanation if you are town is that Kurumi is fucking mafia and considering the fact that he did not even post once since the flip I don't get why you would say this is unlikely. Unless there is a town doc who saved you and who needs to claim if that is the case. Because if noone does he have a more or less confirmed mafia in Kurumi. On March 29 2016 22:58 VayneAuthority wrote: yes thats correct, its unlikely tumble is mafia aka why I look bad atm. the most important question is JAT is bad this game or was he purposely misconstruing koshi's meta and other bad posts because mafia? I have not been misconstruing shit. Koshi did not play his townmeta until the lynch yesterday - that is a goddamn fact. Now he is. On March 29 2016 23:07 Koshi wrote: Nha. JAT could have seen it way faster that I was town. Or hold off. Him insisting to kill me would be good mafia play. It would be terrible mafia play. If I KNEW you were town I would never ever keep pushing you like this knowing you would probably start playing at some point. All the time. | ||
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All around awful play. But that doesn't matter anymore. He is playing his towngame now and no matter how annoying and unbearable it feels - that's just how koshi is. | ||
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People who did not lynch Ticktock: Ritoky - hasn't done anything towny basically all game. Only pushed rsoultin. ^^^^^^ Good lynch. Superbia - gotta let Koshi do his thing here. What I liked about superbia is his involvement but he can do that as mafia. Did not like his posting earlier in the game that much - disagreed with a lot of stuff there. Sicklucker - thought he was town earlier. He DOES talk a lot about his claim but that's par for the course for him. Wouldn't lynch him over the likes of ritoky I guess. VA - Could be anything, Wouldn't rule him out. Wouldn't lynch unless they play a bad day3: sandro, scott Sandro needs to do more though. I wasn't a fan of his absence yesterday - had no real impact on any lynch so far and that is concerning. People who killed Ticktock: Shapelog - joined early, might have thought the wagon wouldn't succeed. Might have bussed. Could be anything. Obi - Started the thing but when it happened wasn't as much of a fan anymore. Maybe he made a horrible mistake as mafia. rsoultin - Could have bussed - the wagon was winning already when she joined. Let's see what she has to say about the item. Don't really think she is mafia though. TW - Same as rsoultin. Don't know what to make of him yet. Not lynching for now: Vivax, Rels, Damdred, LS, Koshi Noone here is confirmed town though. TT was not important to mafia anymore since our vigs probably have used their shots and he was the weak link anyways. We also don't know if no other mafia was on the block yet. | ||
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On March 30 2016 04:00 VayneAuthority wrote: I was just about to ask you where your reads are instead of just defending yourself too, good thing i waited I don't need to defend myself. I have been obvious town all game and the fact that I had to push Koshi because he decided to be retarded once again doesn't change that in any way. Even he couldn't bring himself to openly call me mafia because he is afraid to be wrong like he always is. | ||
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On March 30 2016 04:23 Damdred wrote: Basically I read the game like this Kura Super/Rit VA SL After that everyone else should be pretty safe tommorow unless they have a terrible day. Really think RS claim is still true anyway. And it was obi and shape I believe rels, i think both are town atm Well, I see we are pretty much in agreement then. | ||
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On March 30 2016 04:43 VayneAuthority wrote: why do you keep telling us about your role repeatedly then and couldn't keep your pants on at the end of day 1 deadline letting everybody know your powers and that you were probably shot? lol hahahaha | ||
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On March 30 2016 04:44 sicklucker wrote: well if hes mafia hes waiting till the nk so he has to convince less people. thats how jat plays mafia You have no idea how I play mafia bro :/ | ||
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On March 30 2016 04:50 sicklucker wrote: are you claiming mafia? because this game I have thought you to be town Yes, because that is how logic works apparently. | ||
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On March 30 2016 05:33 rsoultin wrote: tch :/ why must you guys spam the shit out of the thread while i'm gone all day? highlights? I don't think there are any highlights unless you enjoy Koshi being Koshi again. | ||
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On March 30 2016 05:49 rsoultin wrote: lol it's hardly useless and i have the feeling you should definitely listen to me, but if you really feel like you need to grill him over shit no one else cares about please go ahead. why not. that's certainly not clutter of course mhm Even if damdred was confirmed town it wouldn't be useless to question him. And he isn't confirmed town. | ||
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On March 30 2016 06:38 rsoultin wrote: yeah no that was actually rels thanks though mr. snipey ^^ you should realize why i'm doing this so stop being a grumpy gus plzthx No, it was you. Rels was the clutter guy and he was right. | ||
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On March 30 2016 06:45 LightningStrike wrote: Ugh Rels complained about the useless clutter not Tina lol. Yes, that's what I said. | ||
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On March 30 2016 06:49 Vivax wrote: And never forget JAT can easily be mafia, I don't care if you all townread him, during the TT lynch he played poorly and he did a good job at just posting so much about how he was upset about koshi not playing town meta and him deserving to be lynched etc. Just because you got lucky with a last minute shenanny lynch on a lurker whch could have easily fucked the votecount over completely you aren't playing a better game. | ||
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On March 30 2016 06:54 Vivax wrote: I wanted to lynch TT since D1, and suggested it during D2 way before deadline shenannies. I was dead set on lynching him even after his shitty reads post So yes I played better. There was never any real potential of him being lynched until like 5 minutes before deadline. Only if you had pushed him and built a wagon on him all day you would have played better. There were 3 (!) other wagons. If you don't get enough people which is easily possible you fuck up royally. | ||
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On March 30 2016 06:58 Vivax wrote: Guess what happened after I posted about TT? Rsoultin, you and superbia. Stellar play, diverting from scum. Guess you couldn't convice anyone then. Stellar play. | ||
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