EPTOn March 22 2016 08:13 Hapahauli wrote:
What’s funny, is that despite all the toxicity in the thread, town was in pretty good shape overall. There was some pretty good information in the thread, and both mafia were very catchable Day 1. Rels had made a fairly excellent post on Geript...
This case should get him lynched in a calmer game. The idea that someone 180’s on a scumread hard enough to derail a lynch at the last minute despite objecting to a longer day cycle is absurd. The story isn’t believable, and it is especially hard to square geript’s inactivity with the concreteness of his read progresson on Alakaslam.
What’s funny, is that despite all the toxicity in the thread, town was in pretty good shape overall. There was some pretty good information in the thread, and both mafia were very catchable Day 1. Rels had made a fairly excellent post on Geript...
This case should get him lynched in a calmer game. The idea that someone 180’s on a scumread hard enough to derail a lynch at the last minute despite objecting to a longer day cycle is absurd. The story isn’t believable, and it is especially hard to square geript’s inactivity with the concreteness of his read progresson on Alakaslam.
On the face, I understand this argument. But I think it's really wrong. The context of the "short days" post was in an environment when ~36+ hours in no one was voting or actually actively trying to get anyone lynched. I'm also a player that, as both alignments, is actively aware of who's joining who to coalesce a lynch. So when you see a really odd marriage of 2 pairs of people that basically want to lynch each other (me+tumble vs Vivax + Shape IIRC) with a random other, there's assured to be mafia on that wagon. Especially when the towniest people that day (myself, yamato and Koshi) are all voting for 3 different people. That's a really weird lynch to get behind as any alignment. That said, I think Rels really overplayed the unvote more than he should have. Don't drop the subject, I deserve at least some pressure and need to explain the why's and what not. But how overblown he made it, made it that much easier ignore with a simple hand wave.
The real warning sign, IMO, wasn't the fact that I got off that lynch, but this:
On March 15 2016 08:00 Hapahauli wrote:
Alakaslam (4): geript, Tumblewood, Rels,Koshi, Shapelog
Tumblewood (3): Alakaslam, yamato77, Koshi
Shapelog (0):Alakaslam, Koshi, Koshi
Rels (0):Koshi
Not Voting (0):
Final Vote Count - Day 2
Alakaslam (4): geript, Tumblewood, Rels,
Tumblewood (3): Alakaslam, yamato77, Koshi
Shapelog (0):
Rels (0):
Not Voting (0):
That's right, on D2 I'm voting with the same crew (minus Vivax) for what reason???? IDK. This is actually I think my second mistake this game. I should've lynched Tumble here I think, but in the long run it was a bit better to have lynched Slam because it made VCA really weird between the non-confirms. FWIW, the first mistake I made was not having a clear townlist on D1. I should've had some sort of heirarchy posted because I always have that as town with reasoning for why XZY is town, neutral or scum.
On March 22 2016 08:13 Hapahauli wrote:
I don’t think anyone playing this game is bad. Most of you have the knowledge, experience, and intelligence you need to carry a town to victory. Players in this game fell short in leadership. This was a town where people were loud and opinionated and tried to lead, but largely failed in doing so.
I don’t think anyone playing this game is bad. Most of you have the knowledge, experience, and intelligence you need to carry a town to victory. Players in this game fell short in leadership. This was a town where people were loud and opinionated and tried to lead, but largely failed in doing so.
When I first played scum, this was the major reason why I could never understand how Kita could "feel" so active without actually being half as active as he felt. The reason why I was able to do so well this game was because I was the town leadership. I'm a good town player (not the best, but good) and I got away with a meta case which no one bothered to actually check (FYI it's totally fake) and a quite weak case on Vivax with zero repercussions. As town, you have to hold the leaders responsible at least in some regard. Koshi gets a pass because of un-CC'd blue, but I got the two lynches I wanted on D1 with 0 pressure for being wrong on both.
On March 22 2016 08:13 Hapahauli wrote:
Geript - + Show Spoiler +
Geript - + Show Spoiler +
Well played, until the ending anyway. You were too blatantly obvious trying to play Yamato and Rels off each other. Being passive mafia always carries the risk that town will get their collective heads out of their asses and lynch you.
I think you try to play too fancy sometimes, which can get you into trouble against a non-dysfunctional town. For example, the last minute vote-switch on Slam was a very dangerous play, that got you rightly called out by Rels. You were very fortunate that Vivax existed.
Another example are some very weird posts you made in LYLO.
Townies just don’t think like this in LYLO. It’s just very unbelievable to be 100% convinced that someone is town for those reasons at the end of a game. If you want to tell a more convincing story, you need to harness some of the paranoia and uncertainty of being a townie and put them into your posts.
I don't want to take too much away. Surviving four lynches is quite the feat. But I feel you got way too overconfident towards the end.
I think you try to play too fancy sometimes, which can get you into trouble against a non-dysfunctional town. For example, the last minute vote-switch on Slam was a very dangerous play, that got you rightly called out by Rels. You were very fortunate that Vivax existed.
Another example are some very weird posts you made in LYLO.
On March 21 2016 07:08 geript wrote:
Bottom line, I can write a strong town case for yam. I can't for you.
Bottom line, I can write a strong town case for yam. I can't for you.
Townies just don’t think like this in LYLO. It’s just very unbelievable to be 100% convinced that someone is town for those reasons at the end of a game. If you want to tell a more convincing story, you need to harness some of the paranoia and uncertainty of being a townie and put them into your posts.
I don't want to take too much away. Surviving four lynches is quite the feat. But I feel you got way too overconfident towards the end.
FWIW, I think I should've switched to vote Yam earlier. I think that would've kept the focus between those two while Rels would've still been tilted enough maybe not see through it. The late switch to Yam is basically forced from any alignment; it always looks bad and I didn't have enough time to respond (due to work). In 2v1 with a deadline, you have to lynch. Lynching gives you >0% of winning.
Regarding the late vote switch again, I wasn't fortunate Vivax existed. It's possible because Vivax existed as he did. That's a bit odd to say, but steam was already well directed towards him and people wanted him out for a variety of reasons. I can't pull off Slam if there isn't a good secondary lynch option for obvious reasons, but because it exists it allows for it.
Regarding the weird post on town-casing Yam, I honestly just think about things a bit differently than most. My townreads are just far, far better than most of my scumreads; and most my scumreads are basically explanations for why they're not town. So in endgame, me resorting to who is town and who isn't, is just kinda how I operate.
Overall, yes probably overconfident and too cutesy in general. But after the modkill, I wanted to win my way. I was close, but I did fuck up a few things enough to not secure the fifth lynch.
On March 22 2016 08:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I said it before and i am gonna say it again.
Don't no-kill for shit reasons (that you can't even know are true or false). You lost because of it. Had you gone to lylo with any other people than two of Koshi/yamato/Rels you win 99 time out of 100 in this game. You fucked yourself over.
goodnight.
I said it before and i am gonna say it again.
Don't no-kill for shit reasons (that you can't even know are true or false). You lost because of it. Had you gone to lylo with any other people than two of Koshi/yamato/Rels you win 99 time out of 100 in this game. You fucked yourself over.
goodnight.
If the question is: Is not killing in any of those situations better than killing? The answer is no. N1 kill moves to 5v1; which makes lynches harder which is scum favored and also decreases the clock by 1 lynch. But again, that wasn't really the point of why I was playing. I wanted to survive 5 lynches and I wanted to avoid the tracker. Yes, I could've avoided a Yam/Rels/Me lylo and instead had something a bit easier like Rels/Shape/Me.
