EPTTeam Melee Mini Mafia VI: Newbies and Vets - Page 94
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Damdred
15669 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On March 07 2016 12:20 Damdred wrote: It wouldn't of mattered I was dead that day anyway, also tt thought he could offensively jail me.... Turns out nobody read op because I didn't know ko was factional haha. That's not what he said though... And ofc it matters if you lynch 100% scum with or without outing a blue.. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On March 07 2016 12:20 Damdred wrote: It wouldn't of mattered I was dead that day anyway, also tt thought he could offensively jail me.... Turns out nobody read op because I didn't know ko was factional haha. I thought this at first, but Kita did mention in my QT with Queen that KP was factional so our jail only really was effective as a medic save. And yes JAT, I was factoring in the fact that damdred CC'd me as blue when he was town not that long ago. I get where you guys are coming from, but IMO you are looking at worlds of "should be" (a fakeclaim should be mafia) whereas I tend to look at worlds of "what if" (what if town fakeclaimed...vs what if mafia fakeclaimed). Sure I reached a fualty conclusion, but that does not mean my process is neccesarily bad. Just like you wouldn't stop assuming fakeclaim=Mafia just becuase occasionally fakeclaims do come from town. Idk, maybe I'm just naive. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
In the exact same situation, Damdred probaly wouldn't do it again 'cause he was heavily criticized for it 'cause it was kinda bad. But it's not even the same situation, 'cause Damdred only claimed to save his life here. 100% scum, there was 0 chance VT!Damdred claimed blue to save his life when he was not blue. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
This is sorta what I'm getting at though... The thing is, because people actually do those kinda shit fakeclaims as town some people actually think like this could even happen.. I see this as pushing reality to fit what you think it should be, rather than accepting the reality and playing around that. On the one hand I totally get fighting for the world you want to see, but sometimes that just leads to you just fighting the world... I'll stop kus I'm getting all philosophical at this point and have probably lost the plot. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
TT (no offense) you could use a bit help with your blue play.  Btw I would never take offense to criticism of my play. I might argue and defend what I did, but IMO there is always more to work on. If I ever looked back on a game and thought "well I played perfectly, I wouldn't change a thing" I'd probably quit. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
Town almost never fakeclaims to save their own life. They can do it for other reasons but not for survival. You're wrong thinking it's a likely reality that VT fakeclaims to save themselves. I also believe that town should never fakeclaim period, but I can see the benefits of roleswapping or gauging reaction by fakeclaim a red check. Scum will always fakeclaim to save their own life if they are the lynch, 'cause it gets them a benefit over simply being lynched. Anyway TT I liked your mindset this game, you had good thoughts that happened to be wrong but whatever it was super cool to read how sandroba was scum for participating in a scum plan. It could have been true. But how you played your role was kinda bad. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On March 07 2016 19:44 Rels wrote: Town almost never fakeclaims to save their own life. They can do it for other reasons but not for survival. You're wrong thinking it's a likely reality that VT fakeclaims to save themselves. No you are 100% correct. I was misreading when Damdred claimed at first, but also failed to properly reorient my mindset when I finally corrected that. I actually think my mistake was putting too much faith in a gut read on Damdred and not properly evaluating based on that. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On March 07 2016 19:44 Rels wrote: Anyway TT I liked your mindset this game, you had good thoughts that happened to be wrong but whatever it was super cool to read how sandroba was scum for participating in a scum plan. It could have been true. But how you played your role was kinda bad. Here's the problem. A lot of things *can* be true. However, are they really likely to be true? sand was as close to lock town for his day 1 play as it's possible to be. All the rest is conspiratorial fluff. Sure 1 in 20 or 50 times you'll get the #bigplays and actually be right about it (if you're lucky) but most of the time you're trying to lynch a townie based on nothing. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On March 07 2016 11:10 Tictock wrote: Clearly Shit tier... have I ever claimed to be good? We should just roll with this. You shouldn't put a lot of faith in my tinfoil if it's not adding up. I'm also not keen to be NK'd early on. ^.^ | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On March 07 2016 20:10 Tictock wrote: We should just roll with this. You shouldn't put a lot of faith in my tinfoil if it's not adding up. I'm also not keen to be NK'd early on. ^.^ I'm not saying it to insult your play or anything. I like having you in games, you're enjoyable to play with. Just hopefully you can see what happened and maybe it'll help you improve next time? | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On March 07 2016 20:15 marvellosity wrote: I'm not saying it to insult your play or anything. I like having you in games, you're enjoyable to play with. Oh... I know. Just hopefully you can see what happened and maybe it'll help you improve next time? Always | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12973 Posts
On March 07 2016 19:00 Tictock wrote: I thought this at first, but Kita did mention in my QT with Queen that KP was factional so our jail only really was effective as a medic save. And yes JAT, I was factoring in the fact that damdred CC'd me as blue when he was town not that long ago. I get where you guys are coming from, but IMO you are looking at worlds of "should be" (a fakeclaim should be mafia) whereas I tend to look at worlds of "what if" (what if town fakeclaimed...vs what if mafia fakeclaimed). Sure I reached a fualty conclusion, but that does not mean my process is neccesarily bad. Just like you wouldn't stop assuming fakeclaim=Mafia just becuase occasionally fakeclaims do come from town. Idk, maybe I'm just naive. I really don't think this is a bad thought in a vacuum. However with a claim as opportunistic and survival-oriented as Damdred did here, it makes it very likely that he's scum. When everyone is in agreement as well that a blue should CC, you should probably go for it. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
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justanothertownie
16343 Posts
On March 07 2016 22:21 VisceraEyes wrote: I was perfectly fine with you not counterclaiming Ticktock don't listen to these guys they're haters. Meanest comment yet :p | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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justanothertownie
16343 Posts
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justanothertownie
16343 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On March 07 2016 19:27 Tictock wrote: I see this as pushing reality to fit what you think it should be, rather than accepting the reality and playing around that. yes because the reality should always fit what it is here. That is the point. There should never ever be a situation where a vanilla town claims blue to save themselves being lynched. It is just terrible play and if people want to play better whenever someone claims blue when they are not just to save them from being lynched you just lynch them. If they are in town then it's on them, but it raises the overall quality of the play, if not there in further games. It is still not the wrong decision to lynch them, never. It's actually very important to discuss this kinda stuff here because there are (were) new players in this game and i wouldn't really want to them to think claiming blue as town if you are being lynched is an acceptable move, because it is not, it is just retarded. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On March 07 2016 19:44 Rels wrote: Dunno, it's straightforward to me. Town almost never fakeclaims to save their own life. They can do it for other reasons but not for survival. You're wrong thinking it's a likely reality that VT fakeclaims to save themselves. Vivax also did this in Outlaw and should have 100% be the D1 lynch. I also believe that town should never fakeclaim period, but I can see the benefits of roleswapping or gauging reaction by fakeclaim a red check. Claiming a red check is also terrible unless you somehow know the other person is mafia (well... like here Damdred on D2 start for example when he doesn't die as a jailkeeper in game with no roleblocker). Scum will always fakeclaim to save their own life if they are the lynch, 'cause it gets them a benefit over simply being lynched. Yes, which this situation is educational in comparison to what actually happened and how N1 and D2 went down for town. In a "perfect" world (which is not even that hard to figure out) if Damdred lives he is scum and auto-lynched on D2, if he dies and flips vanilla then good. You don't actually need a counter-claim but if the town doesn't realize that (like it happened) then you have to counter-claim Damdred. You protect either marvellosity or sandroba because they are the most likely people to solve the game, VE wasn't really doing much from what i gathered. If i was JK i would always protect marv because marv tried to lynch the dude who is always scum because he claimed my role, it's not really much harder than that. Basically as JK/doctor, especially on N1, always protect the (a) player that is the most capable of solving the game. Always, it doesn't even matter what you think their alignment is unless you somehow KNOW they are scum. It's always the best play. A L W A Y S ! [/QUOTE] | ||
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