|
I'll start by confessing that I didn't actually read all of Shapelog's posts at a high level of attention. There's a lot of fluff in them, and while I don't expect or demand that everyone be all-business-all-the-time, it does mean that if you have a lot of off-topic discussion interspersed with your serious posting, I'm probably going to miss some of the latter.
With that said, Shapelog is a player who can't be evaluated solely on post volume or apparent involvedness in the thread -- he's produced very large filters as mafia with spammy posting styles similar to this one. Instead, you have to look at the quality of the content he does discuss amidst his fluff posting.
And while I'm a bit biased, I think it's strong work. He immediately comes to the correct conclusion regarding my setup spec posting, which is to realize that I was deliberately taking away mafia outs to our power roles, and pushed that line of argument with Trfel. Trfel gives a very weak non-answer here:
On February 16 2016 10:18 Shapelog wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2016 10:12 Trfel wrote:On February 16 2016 09:44 Shapelog wrote:
See Trofl you did not answer my question :/... This is why i cannot share my nice logic/reads with you. You posted a question? Oh, I thought it was rhetorical. I obviously disagree. Power roles can play their own roles, they don't need someone to direct them. The point isn't the setup speculation, that's not alignment indicative. I can't see how Eden as town could care so much about his setup speculation and not care about anything else. No, try again. Why would Scum! Eden push pro-miller claim While speculating that a DT is in the game. Like hell (and this is bad i know) but he could be the detective/tracker/watcher? thingy (at least that is what he speculated) and just bread crumb. Then lets get deep. That list was really just him saying the unflavor name of most of the roles and trying to figure out the Radin role. His only speculation is that a DT is in the game and that Millers are aware. Show nested quote +Eden wrote in his List,
I think any miller(s) should probably claim right away to take away the option for the mafia to use claiming miller as counterplay for a cop check. Would mafia push for a removing a out like that just to get cred?
On February 16 2016 10:22 Trfel wrote:
Because that doesn't matter?
Like, Eden's statement is of minimal significance, and even less relevance. [/spoiler]
Quite honestly, on further rereading it looks more like Trfel didn't actually read what I was trying to argue, and just seized upon the opportunity to manufacture a scumread based on the tried-and-false TL Mafia heuristic that "only mafia care about setup speculation."
Anyway this is turning into a Trfel read -- back to Shapelog. Shapelog immediately comes to the correct conclusion and pushes on Trfel a bit for failing to do the same, but does so very fairly and magnanimously -- he's not looking to accuse Trfel or exploit Trfel's misreading the situation to get a scumread, he's looking to hold a sincere conversation about Trfel's read and explain his own angle on the situation. Reads townie to me.
He's also spending quite a bit of time trying to figure out Tumblewood.
+ Show Spoiler +On February 16 2016 22:31 Shapelog wrote:Ok I have Insight on Tumbledore. Going in for the read. + Show Spoiler [Insightful posts] +On February 16 2016 06:04 Tumblewood wrote:
Scumreading Trfel pretty hard right now tbh On February 16 2016 15:46 Tumblewood wrote:
This D1 sucks. Nothing very significant has happened except Trfel and Eden arguing and getting nowhere, except for all that nice town cred people are building for themselves. On February 16 2016 16:16 Tumblewood wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2016 15:55 Tictock wrote:
Well, did you get any read off of Trfel and Eden in their exchange?
Who do you think is trying to build themselves towncred?
You and Shape were just on a mafia team together, do you have any insights into his alignment?
Maybe you could try to talk about stuff like that rather than complain that the day is boring. Trfel and Eden are town because mafia are usually afraid to get into a heated argument. I think everyone besides those two who has been active is making little town cred posts without substance. Shape was spammy as all hell last game. Is that just normal though? Maybe. Tictock, what do you think of Trfel and Eden arguing? Ok so this might seem really Meh. In fact it is Meh. But it is very different then Scum!Tumble intro post in the last Newbie. In the last newbie, as my scum partner, he opened up with a big read (note that he threw slug at me). His posts there out were also big posts. He also was like a gopher on groundhog day, he pop his head out, answer points about him being scum, then leave about 60% of the time. Other 40% was him pushing his scum reads. IF he was scum, he would have a scum read and take advantage of the situation between Eden and Trofl. + Show Spoiler [Or Tinfoil] + Slight chance that he is scum and someone like trofl or Etc. is a scum partner. I would feel fine giving Tumble a slight town lean ftm. On February 16 2016 22:49 Shapelog wrote:Actually that last post from him is a tad bit weird tbh. Show nested quote +On February 16 2016 16:16 Tumblewood wrote:On February 16 2016 15:55 Tictock wrote:
Well, did you get any read off of Trfel and Eden in their exchange?
Who do you think is trying to build themselves towncred?
You and Shape were just on a mafia team together, do you have any insights into his alignment?
Maybe you could try to talk about stuff like that rather than complain that the day is boring. Trfel and Eden are town because mafia are usually afraid to get into a heated argument. I think everyone besides those two who has been active is making little town cred posts without substance.Shape was spammy as all hell last game. Is that just normal though? Maybe.Tictock, what do you think of Trfel and Eden arguing? Ok so he answers the question without really giving too much info beside it. Then makes a nice town statement IMO. But then for the last two lines he doges the question. Have I heavily been spamming? No. He could of talked about my TT interactions or even my semi-defense on eden or etc. He could of done more in that department on a read on me. It is like he is avoiding giving me a read for some reason. He redirects the question back to TT, which to be fair. Is legitimately fine (since TT kinda has been delaying that with Soup). But why does he not try to pressure TT more? idk maybe it is a personal play-style of mine to go after people and make their life misbehave. Which i guess would make him town according to last game but still.... @Tumbledore, what is your current read on TT and Why?
It's worth noting that he doesn't really come to a conclusive read on Tumblewood, but I think what he does produce -- a town lean, despite some misgivings about perceived weird posts -- is sensible, and I think that the "I was scumbuddies with X last game, so I'll pay special attention to X for my team in this game" is a very intuitive thing for a townie to do after just getting out of that game in which they were teammates.
I'm fine giving Shapelog a town lean and am pretty confident I wouldn't lynch him today.
Question for Shapelog:
- You've said you would go back and review the interaction between Trfel and me to get a more conclusive read on us. Having now done this (if you haven't, go do this), what is your opinion on Trfel's alignment?
|
On February 17 2016 07:17 nooniansoong wrote:
Eden, who do you think we should lynch though?
I'm still working on deciding that. My answer right now is Trfel, as the more I read his attempt to push on me, the more it comes off like mafia trying to pounce on the "setup spec = mafia" heuristic that's popular here instead of a townie sincerely attempting to comprehend what I was doing. Check out the interaction between him and Shapelog that I pointed out for more specifics.
I reserve the right to change this answer though. I don't feel I have a sufficiently thorough understanding of the game to this point to give an answer I'm fully confident in
|
goddammit formatting fail
|
Eden, nothing I said had anything to do with what you did. It's all about what you DIDN'T do.
I specifically said that setup speculation is not mafia indicative. I stated this several times that this is NOT why I was scumreading you.
I was scumreading you for being separated from the thread and completely ignoring everything else that was going on. This isn't necessarily mafia indicative, but when coupled with how seriously you took the setup talk, to me it seemed extremely suspect. This argument is clear throughout my posts.
Eden's second series of posts showed willingness to interact and involvement in the game, directly contradicting my arguments, causing me to strongly reconsider. Furthermore, my meta had an extremely serious flaw.
It frustrates me greatly when people say that my arguments are things that they clearly aren't when half of my argument is explaining why this isn't what I'm saying in the first place. If you're going to call my argument bad, please actually acknowledge that you understand what my argument is first. Thanks.
|
whatever this shit takes way too long. fuck a filter dive
DO NOT LYNCH:
Shapelog
Tictock
nooniansoong
PROBABLY DON'T LYNCH:
rsoultin (prepared to move into do not lynch territory again, pending further meaningful activity)
Palmar (underwhelming to this point, but has too much potential and not enough actually suspicious activity to be the lynch)
OKAY WITH LYNCHING // HAVE MADE NO REAL IMPRESSION:
Tumblewood
Breshke
The Shining
mderg/scott31337
GlowingBear
DOWN WITH LYNCHING:
Trfel (his case on me looks more like a mafia trying for a gotcha vote than a legitimate townie argument -- notice the interaction I pointed out with Shapelog where, in the face of reasoned concerns with his arguments, he handwaves the point as being 'irrelevant' when it clearly isn't.)
sicklucker (voting me for "claiming VT" when I didn't do that, similarly uncritical application of bad setup spec heuristic from a player I know is capable of better.)
I'm aware that both of my targets are primarily on here for making a case on me, and I don't care. I bring it up because I'm sure some jackass is going to point out that it's OMGUS, and I want to make it clear that it's not -- I'm not down for lynching them because they voted me, I'm down for it because their reasons for doing so were very poor, look like mafia reasons for voting someone, and come from players who I know can do better.
|
Setup speculation is not alignment indicative. I think it's of minimal value, you can disagree, but whatever. Either way, it's not something that is hard for mafia to do, and mafia does it a reasonable amount. Town also does it a reasonable amount.
I am capable of understanding the arguments for simple things like "the miller should claim", thank you very much. It's just not alignment indicative in and of itself.
|
On February 17 2016 07:58 Trfel wrote:
Eden, nothing I said had anything to do with what you did. It's all about what you DIDN'T do.
I specifically said that setup speculation is not mafia indicative. I stated this several times that this is NOT why I was scumreading you.
I was scumreading you for being separated from the thread and completely ignoring everything else that was going on. This isn't necessarily mafia indicative, but when coupled with how seriously you took the setup talk, to me it seemed extremely suspect. This argument is clear throughout my posts.
Eden's second series of posts showed willingness to interact and involvement in the game, directly contradicting my arguments, causing me to strongly reconsider. Furthermore, my meta had an extremely serious flaw.
It frustrates me greatly when people say that my arguments are things that they clearly aren't when half of my argument is explaining why this isn't what I'm saying in the first place. If you're going to call my argument bad, please actually acknowledge that you understand what my argument is first. Thanks.
Except that at no point was I separated from the thread? I led off with setup posting and immediately started doing other things (townreading rsoultin, talking to Tictock) as they came up. This has been demonstrably and flagrantly false from the outset.
You basically said that I was scum for talking about setup spec at the alleged expense of other things. Since I was talking about other things, that alleged expense was not actually an expense, and your argument becomes "Eden is scum for talking about setup spec." When someone calls you out on how my setup spec was pro-town you handwave it as irrelevant and continue pushing this line of argument.
|
On February 17 2016 08:00 Trfel wrote:
I am capable of understanding the arguments for simple things like "the miller should claim", thank you very much. It's just not alignment indicative in and of itself.
So it's not alignment indicative for me to push a line of argument that only helps town? If I'm mafia and doing it then I'm reducing my own team's outs to redchecks to get towncred when I can do other things to get towncred without reducing those outs. It's a strictly worse line of play than several other ones, like simply being fake-afk until real stuff happens that I can talk about.
|
On February 17 2016 08:03 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 07:58 Trfel wrote:
Eden, nothing I said had anything to do with what you did. It's all about what you DIDN'T do.
I specifically said that setup speculation is not mafia indicative. I stated this several times that this is NOT why I was scumreading you.
I was scumreading you for being separated from the thread and completely ignoring everything else that was going on. This isn't necessarily mafia indicative, but when coupled with how seriously you took the setup talk, to me it seemed extremely suspect. This argument is clear throughout my posts.
Eden's second series of posts showed willingness to interact and involvement in the game, directly contradicting my arguments, causing me to strongly reconsider. Furthermore, my meta had an extremely serious flaw.
It frustrates me greatly when people say that my arguments are things that they clearly aren't when half of my argument is explaining why this isn't what I'm saying in the first place. If you're going to call my argument bad, please actually acknowledge that you understand what my argument is first. Thanks. Except that at no point was I separated from the thread? I led off with setup posting and immediately started doing other things (townreading rsoultin, talking to Tictock) as they came up. This has been demonstrably and flagrantly false from the outset. You basically said that I was scum for talking about setup spec at the alleged expense of other things. Since I was talking about other things, that alleged expense was not actually an expense, and your argument becomes "Eden is scum for talking about setup spec." When someone calls you out on how my setup spec was pro-town you handwave it as irrelevant and continue pushing this line of argument. Why are you so confident in Tictock being town? I don't have great reasons to townread him right now, and I didn't see anything in your filter, correct me if I missed something?
Anyway, you don't have to say that my arguments are incorrect by responding to arguments that I didn't actually make. I'm well aware that town is perfectly capable (and often does) talk about setup. I've already directly explained what caused me to say the things that I did, with quotes and specifics, and I've specifically shown what caused my read to change, so I have nothing more to say on the matter.
I'm slightly leaning town on Tumblewood, his posting feels a bit more free than last game. It's a weak read, but I think it will be made more clear in time.
My biggest suspicion is probably The Shining right now, but that's not a very big suspicion  I need to reread the thread when I can, but I'm doing a pretty lousy job of finding mafia. I'll try and get to it later tonight.
|
On February 17 2016 08:05 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 08:00 Trfel wrote:
I am capable of understanding the arguments for simple things like "the miller should claim", thank you very much. It's just not alignment indicative in and of itself. So it's not alignment indicative for me to push a line of argument that only helps town? If I'm mafia and doing it then I'm reducing my own team's outs to redchecks to get towncred when I can do other things to get towncred without reducing those outs. It's a strictly worse line of play than several other ones, like simply being fake-afk until real stuff happens that I can talk about. This is correct, I don't think that it is at all alignment indicative. However, I disagree that it is a strictly worse play.
|
It's unfortunate that I don't want to post right now.
I bet that's not very helpful of me.
|
Oh yeah, and people get mad at me when I say who I'm suspicious of without posting reasons.
The Shining still hasn't come back, to me this makes his posts feel a bit dry. Suddenly vanishing, in addition to still not having come back, while seeming to be interested in his sicklucker read earlier, feels off to me, however it's quite early in the game and it's possible that he's just suddenly busy or a bit disinterested for some reason.
|
On February 17 2016 08:12 Palmar wrote:
It's unfortunate that I don't want to post right now.
I bet that's not very helpful of me.
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGTTu3qUYAAEFVC.jpg:large)
|
@Trfel -- my reasons aren't great either lol
His filter is just full of posts that I nodded my head to, like this one:
On February 16 2016 15:55 Tictock wrote:
Well, did you get any read off of Trfel and Eden in their exchange?
Who do you think is trying to build themselves towncred?
You and Shape were just on a mafia team together, do you have any insights into his alignment?
Maybe you could try to talk about stuff like that rather than complain that the day is boring.
I'll save you the one where he talked about us :p
But it's just stuff like that. He's been on the ball with what he's chosen to respond to this game. This early on I'm affirmatively on board with not killing him (that is, "I don't want to kill him because of X things he's done," as opposed to negatively on board with not killing, as I am with Palmar, for instance).
I don't think he's some lock town or anything. He's not outside what I would guess is his range for mafia behavior, but he's certainly done enough for me not to kill him atm.
|
Too be totally honest I don't really have strong scum feelings about anything and im really struggling because of it.
The trefel/eden "fight" really seems like it comes from two towns to me. I agree with eden and i think I understand what trefels argument actually is but don't think it was right since there wasnt really much going on in the thread for eden to be disjointed from but that is my opinion. I said it was a town on town fight because I feel like either one of them as scum could take it to that next level and start shitting up the thread which would push the other player (who would be town in this scenario) to do this as well.
I also think Ticktock is town just of how happy/relaxed he seems but I have no idea of his scum meta so this could be totally wrong but im fine with it for today.
I would lynch SL just because i can never read him and I don't think with the way he is playing this game I ever will be able to.
|
Underwhelming post from breshke
|
On February 17 2016 08:41 nooniansoong wrote:
Underwhelming post from breshke
I agree though idk what's wrong
|
Vote Count - Day 1
Eden1892 (1): Trfel, sicklucker
Not Voting (12): Palmar, Shapelog, Tictock, Tumblewood, Breshke, nooniansoong, The Shining, scott31337, Eden1892, Rsoultin, GlowingBear, Trfel
At this time, Eden1892 is slated to be lynched.
Day 1 ends in on 21:00 GMT (+00:00).
The voting thread is here.
Only votes there will be counted.
|
Trying to move the game forward, but most people don't even have a page of filter to use. It's hard to town/scum read anyone besides Trfel and Eden.
Really I'm just concerned that scum will win because town lacks information and doesn't seek any.
|
not lynching the truffle ^^ he sounded like a truffle
what does a truffle sound like?
truffle sounds like a truffle in this game
#circularreasoningftw
also not lynching a breshke...so i saw the points on shapelog, eden...the thing that was bugging me about his posting was it almost seemed over the top, like he's trying to sound cheery when he isn't. also, he clearly didn't understand what you were getting at lol >< if he didn't realize that any millers in the game would be aware millers
disclaimer: i don't think i've ever played with shapelog, so the toneread is meh probably. for those who have played with him, is he always this OMG OMG sunshine!!! hahahaha!
2nd disclaimer: dumbtell lol...of course scum can also fail to read the op but eh
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
