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On January 31 2016 02:30 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2016 02:22 darthfoley wrote:
Yo Trfel. I'm not sure of anything this game. Especially given that 3 VTs have died with nothing to show for it. I'm going to be busy for much of today at a smash tournament, but I will definitely give Eden's filter a closer look.
Off the top of the dome:
I'm not sure I really understand the motivation behind mafia!Eden to go so aggressively after Onegu. I guess it could be because Onegu is a veteran and would be more likely to find inconsistencies in his posts? I mean Onegu was hardly anyone's TR... he was either null or scum read iirc. Would've been a relatively easy lynch (might've taken a couple cycles) and he probably wouldn't have had to put his finger on the scale as much. Seems like a much safer play as mafia to push Onegu, just not to the extent Eden was doing so. Even if mafia were scum and knew there was a vigi, I highly doubt scum expected the vigi shot on Onegu N1. I think that it's much easier for scum to hard-push someone than soft-push them. I know that this is true for me, anyway. I feel like Eden would hard-push Onegu there because it's something that's easy to do and makes himself look active, and also to influence the vigilante to shoot Onegu. The big thing to me is the reaction after Onegu died, which I'm really having a hard time understanding from town. Basically: "I have a scumread on Onegu, he's 100% scum! I could be just biased though, because I'm really biased, but Onegu is scum anyway!" "YOU SHOT ONEGU! YOU'RE THE BEST!!!" instead of.... I'm biased, why did you sheep me and shoot Onegu? Which is what I'd expect from town who was just hard-pushing someone and they got shot N1. I guess I also don't see why this can't come from mafia!Eden. It's not a difficult thing for mafia to do, and it's at least somewhat aligned with mafia motivation (I'd say very, but it's subjective I suppose).
This is really backwards and perplexing to me.
If I thought Onegu is really likely to be scum, even acknowledging my biases, why would I complain that someone sheeped me and shot him?
How does it make sense in your head for someone who is hard-pushing a scumread to be disappointed and questioning a confirmed town vigilante for shooting a scumread?
Of course a townie is excited his scumread got shot. Even if that read was wrong, it means you don't have to waste the day campaigning against a townie and spending a lot of effort convincing people to lynch them. And when you add in that Onegu was a toxic presence in the thread, telling everybody to stop doing things and that he was so much better than everyone (while also not doing much constructive posting himself), of course I was happy he bit it.
Like this is just so fundamentally off-base. So many of your claims about how town should behave are backwards and alien to me. I'm gonna have to go read your other games to see where this is coming from I guess. I just don't get how you come to any of the conclusions you do about this game.
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i am not reading or responding to all that noise
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On January 31 2016 03:28 Trfel wrote:
This is getting complicated. I'm going to get lunch, I'll figure the rest of this out eventually.
I looked through JesusIncarnate's filter, but I just don't see him being mafia. I don't really think that the roleblock on nooniansoong means much now that I've thought about it more. There are too many potential flaws with that analysis.
1. Mafia doesn't always do the optimal play, for a wide variety of reasons
2. Even if mafia is trying to do the optimal play, they can see things differently than I/we do, this is a game of opinions
3. Other factors to consider (this basically is part of #2, but whatever)
So just going with my read on JesusIncarnate, he's likely town.
Which leaves three mafia in Eden1892, Ikidomari, PepperMintTea, and Tumblewood. Ikidomari was looking really scummy to me, but I think I need more time to think about it and read him correctly. I know that this is unflipped association, but Eden1892 and Ikidomari make more sense together as mafia than either of them individually (I have a bit harder time seeing either of them as mafia individually). This POE indicates that they are both mafia, but POE is bad and I'm bad, so I really need to think more about this and figure things out.
It's possible it doesn't mean much, but I think you're going to be hard-pressed to explain the alternative circumstances, which leaves my conclusion as the conclusion by default.
- Even if mafia doesn't always do optimal plays or sees things differently, it's hard to justify roleblocking someone that's not their kill if they think a vet is in the game, unless they think that someone is the vig and going to shoot mafia.
- Even if mafia blablabla, it's hard to justify roleblocking someone that's not their kill if they think that person they're roleblocking is the doctor, since you would just shoot the doctor.
Still basically just leaves you with the world where they thought kush was vig.
@kush -- why do you keep asking about Jesus being replaced? It seems pretty reasonable to me just to kill them and not worry about it. (unless you're angle-shooting for modkill Jesus lynch Trfel which makes sense)
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##vote: jesusincarnate
I can't figure out what to do with Trfel. Don't have time now to go reread old games of his, and even after I said that about his thought process, I'm not even sure how much it matters (and thus whether that's even a good use of limited time).
I think I'm still generally ok with where we're at. Slightly annoying that I'm ending up in various POE lists, but understandable. Mainly the fact that the other clear townies' POE lists are converging makes me pretty confident in where we are.
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On January 31 2016 05:57 Shapelog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2016 05:51 Eden1892 wrote:
i am not reading or responding to all that noise Here you go again doing to me what you did to Onegu. ##:Unvote
##Vote: Eden1892Idk even know if you are the best lynch for today. But you just practically earned my vote with that.
i don't care
although i would say i'm not doing nearly the same thing to you that i did to onegu. there's no way you're mafia, i'm just not wasting effort on a long-winded case i know is incorrect. inefficient use of time
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Yo kush help me figure out Trfel.
I hate so many things he's said this game. Like multiple times I've read his posts and just not understood what he's getting at fundamentally.
But he seems like he really believes it and just the tone of how he posts feels townie to me. Idk how to explain it.
You clearly suspect him, do you just not think he's being sincere? Or that his take on everything in the game is just scummy?
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Posted without catching up.
My gut is telling me Trfel is town somehow. I feel like I'm just talking to someone with a really really different approach to the whole game and it's screwing with my read on him.
Just the effort level and nuance in his posting should be enough to clear him probably. Tbh if I just assume the lots of questions with little apparent direction thing is just a play style thing, I don't really know why I scum read him.
I think I'm gonna have to step back from the game a bit and think. Things aren't clearly coming together like they normally do when I'm on the right track.
Will try to get back tonight.
Oh and Trfel - Eden is fine. The numbers wouldn't even be there if someone didn't already register that handle
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On January 31 2016 07:53 Trfel wrote:
Eden, are you busy?
Quite - I'm at work waiting to be sat lol.
AMA and I'll answer when I get a bit of time
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Fair assessment. What you miss from a cursory look at that game is that I didn't take on that role until later in day 2, when I had something worth pushing. Much as here, I was involved throughout, but mainly just pursuing various leads and pushing here and there where I thought I might have something. It took Tubesock's hard work for me to get something that was both certainly true and sufficiently dissident to need a push -- at which point I pushed.
I tried the same with Iki but for some reason was convinced it was dumb. Shrug.
I will try to get some progress made later tonight. I think kush probably has the right idea in just letting Jesus get modkilled and trying to double lynch. Don't think Trfel should be the other hit though. Probably Iki, I'm starting to think I just went full retard again like I did last game with darth.
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We are not lynching Trfel. That post is literal never ever coming from scum.
I don't even know who we are lynching yet but it's not Trfel. Period.
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On January 31 2016 15:25 nooniansoong wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2016 15:17 Eden1892 wrote:
We are not lynching Trfel. That post is literal never ever coming from scum.
I don't even know who we are lynching yet but it's not Trfel. Period. That megapost? You're wrong. Look at his last scum game.
i'll have a look. brb
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On January 31 2016 15:45 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2016 14:50 _MexicanAlien wrote:
I find it suspicious how eden and trfel somehow decide for obscure reasons that lynching each other is not going to work or they just town read. They seem to be supporting each other in spam.
I think Mafia is:
Tfrel
Eden1892
Mafia lean:
Ikidomari
Jesusincarnate
Town lean:
darthfoley
PepperMintTea
Town:
Shape log
Null:
nooniansoong
I'm personally offended that you have Shapelog as more of a town read than me given that i'm the vigilante aka blue role lol
gr8 pl8s m8 i r8 8/8
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In the middle of rereading Trfel's filter this game and comparing to his most recent town and scum game. I am inclined to think his play this game is actually more reminiscent of his last mafia game from what I did read, but I'm also really skeptical about how useful this information is, since the basis of the comparison is basically all tonal and there are several things that may affect that. I'd have to give a more complete reread of all his past games, after adjusting for how recent they are (since how he played months/years ago isn't representative of anything) and I don't really feel like doing that.
I am curious about one thing though. Trfel:
On January 28 2016 08:45 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 08:35 Eden1892 wrote:On January 28 2016 08:26 Trfel wrote:On January 28 2016 08:22 Eden1892 wrote:On January 28 2016 08:21 Trfel wrote:
I didn't have an opinion on Tumblewood until I checked his filter more carefully, and then I realized that I was missing some important things. Like what? Be specific. You cited literal none of these "important things" when you voted him. Of course not, he has to answer my question first. Then he gets to know why he's mafia  What a cop out. I hate this. I feel obligated not to press you further on this in the event I'm wrong and you're on to something. But if I'm right and you're full of it, this is just giving you time to stall me out and avoid getting lynched. If you're town you need to make a good faith effort to show me you're not full of it with this line of questioning. I read Tumblewood's filter and felt his suspicions of Shapelog were very consistent and understandable (though I disagree with them). This question looks very do-nothing, like a lot of your questions have been this game. And your flip in those posts I cited is really suspicious to me. I'm trying to act in good faith and not screw up your play if you are town. Meet me halfway and give me a reason to believe you're not just hot air with this. Eden, I'm trying very hard to not direct the thread. It's a newbie game, I feel like the new players should lead it.Basically, I don't feel that Tumblewood actually cares about his scumreads. His filter seems to be contributing, but while it is contributing, it doesn't seem like he's scumhunting. He's always scumreading the top suspects, but not talking about them, either, which is probably the biggest example of this.
Why are you arguing that I'm mafia for not directing the thread, when you yourself said that you felt you shouldn't be directing it yourself? It would seem to me that you would believe you're town, in which case you've already seen a reason why someone would not want to direct the thread as town.
I proceed to give you my own reason for not being as directing as maybe I normally would be (which isn't even fully true anyway -- my style as town these days is decidedly not directing the town, unless I have something really good and I think that I need to step up and take control to get that something going), but then you scumread me for not being directing.
This strikes me as inconsistent.
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##UNVOTE
##VOTE: Ikidomari
Not comfortable enough with lynching Trfel. Jesus likely to be modkilled, or replaced, so Iki is the best choice.
Pretty sure all my d1 arguments basically still apply and that I let Iki go for no reason.
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Trfel how on Earth do you think I would be on the same team as Ikidomari...
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On February 01 2016 03:48 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 03:47 Eden1892 wrote:
Trfel how on Earth do you think I would be on the same team as Ikidomari... Because of your role pm and because of his role pm. The burden of proof is on you. Why couldn't you be on the same team as Ikidomari? Once you present a reason, I'll consider if it's valid; at the moment I don't know of any valid reasons.
Weird mine says vt so idk what you mean??????????
And no it isn't. Trflol pls. Why do you have us on a team together?
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On February 01 2016 04:03 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 04:00 Eden1892 wrote:On February 01 2016 03:48 Trfel wrote:On February 01 2016 03:47 Eden1892 wrote:
Trfel how on Earth do you think I would be on the same team as Ikidomari... Because of your role pm and because of his role pm. The burden of proof is on you. Why couldn't you be on the same team as Ikidomari? Once you present a reason, I'll consider if it's valid; at the moment I don't know of any valid reasons. Weird mine says vt so idk what you mean?????????? And no it isn't. Trflol pls. Why do you have us on a team together? I dislike unflipped association, but I remember that my cursory glance told me that you (Eden) only make sense as mafia if Ikidomari is, reason being that I don't see you going back and forth so many times over town.
have you EVER seen me play town before?
like literal last game when the exact same thing happened with mafia darthfoley?
this is ridiculous. what do you think i am? your portrayal of me as someone who never changes his mind about anything and is supremely confident in all his reads at all times is a comic caricature of my actual play and completely divorced from reality
On February 01 2016 04:29 _MexicanAlien wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2016 03:47 Eden1892 wrote:
Trfel how on Earth do you think I would be on the same team as Ikidomari... Because of how you accused him for very good reasons then suddenly dropped your case against him because he acted all sad and 'I want to learn'.
and what about that is mafia behavior?
On February 01 2016 04:30 _MexicanAlien wrote:
And them how he tried to convince us you didn't help him, even though the only thing that would accomplish would be to make you less suspicious, which is not something town would do.
ok so that is a reason to think ikidomari is mafia, but then how does that have anything to do with me?
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Because why on Earth would I ever go to all the trouble of making my teammate look horrendous and then weakly walk it back like I did?
I am legitimately stunned that this isn't obvious to everyone. That's horrible mafia play. If Iki was going to incriminate himself like that, then the correct thing to do is to ignore it for a bit and hope no one else really calls it out. Maybe they don't and you coast (especially in a newbie game), neither one of you are in the spotlight and it's perfect. If someone else calls it out, then you bus Iki and move along.
But look at how the game has played out, literally the only reason any of you chuckleheads are talking about Iki at all is because I put Iki's big post during day 1 on blast. How does that make any sense for a partner to do?
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Whatever, you're a dick and probably next anyway.
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On February 01 2016 05:58 nooniansoong wrote:
Eden lol don't be full of yourself. I jumped on ikid as did Darth at the same time you did.
Darth followed me lol. And you didn't get in the middle of it and push the issue like I did.
I guess saying no one would have noticed at all is a stretch, but the main point's the same, doing what I did with Iki makes no sense for a scum team.
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EPT
