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On January 06 2016 00:48 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2016 00:44 Palmar wrote:On January 06 2016 00:38 ExO_ wrote:On January 06 2016 00:27 Palmar wrote:On January 06 2016 00:21 ExO_ wrote:
However Rayn/Artanis/Vivax/Koshi all thought you were scum Palmar, and all are dead townies. And at the start of day 2, I said scum Palmar would come and talk his way out of a lynch. And I think that is certainly a possibility. No, this is why you're mafia. You give no opportunity and use predetermined conclusions. You have decided I am mafia and thus if I talk myself out of a lynch I am mafia talking myself out of lynch. You don't even stop to think "what would town Palmar do". Because if you're just looking at the action (ie: talking myself out of a lynch), and doing it makes me mafia, then I suppose you'd have expected me as town to just get lynched because why? There is literally no course of action that would make you stop thinking I'm mafia, which means you've decided what I am a long time ago and will just say whatever you think supports that conclusion. On January 06 2016 00:21 ExO_ wrote:
The fact that GB was scum is points in your favor, but if Slam flips scum too then It stops even being a question in my mind that you're scum. I was wrong about GB so I at least owe you a relook. I have literally no control over slam's alignment. Hell, if he flips mafia I'm more likely to be town because I fucking brought up the point gb didn't vote on his counterwagon despite being in the thread at least close to the deadline. You don't get to call me scum by association. You're mafia. Now die. What was it, 1 page ago I was scum for thinking you're townie after the flip, a few posts later I'm scum because I won't change my mind on you. The fuck is the irrational pushing of me. I'm in the middle of reading your filter. As I said I owe you a relook. But are you kidding me with this? No matter what I say you're trying to skew it in some way. God I really hope you are scum. Aren't you supposed to be a vet of TL mafia? Being this stubborn and quite frankly stupid is going to lose town the game. I am not being stubborn. And it's not me who is skewing your words as much as the opposite. "What was it, 1 page ago I was scum for thinking you're townie after the flip, a few posts later I'm scum because I won't change my mind on you." I am talking about how and why, not what. I didn't call you scum for thinking I'm townie. I called you scum for thinking I'm townie while not in any way removing previous suspicion. IE you took WHAT happened without even thinking about HOW it happened. Again that isn't the case though. Somehow saying I need to reevaluate you = I think you're townie without suspicion in your mind. It's completely misrepresenting what I said.
Well not townie, but the point stands.
You took an action and decided an outcome based on it. How about you lynch Onegu because he claimed cop at random? Ritoky shot a townie. Damdred claimed a role that has since flipped?
You can't just look at what happened (random dude flipped mafia) you need to look at how and why.
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On January 06 2016 00:44 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2016 00:38 ExO_ wrote:On January 06 2016 00:27 Palmar wrote:On January 06 2016 00:21 ExO_ wrote:
However Rayn/Artanis/Vivax/Koshi all thought you were scum Palmar, and all are dead townies. And at the start of day 2, I said scum Palmar would come and talk his way out of a lynch. And I think that is certainly a possibility. No, this is why you're mafia. You give no opportunity and use predetermined conclusions. You have decided I am mafia and thus if I talk myself out of a lynch I am mafia talking myself out of lynch. You don't even stop to think "what would town Palmar do". Because if you're just looking at the action (ie: talking myself out of a lynch), and doing it makes me mafia, then I suppose you'd have expected me as town to just get lynched because why? There is literally no course of action that would make you stop thinking I'm mafia, which means you've decided what I am a long time ago and will just say whatever you think supports that conclusion. On January 06 2016 00:21 ExO_ wrote:
The fact that GB was scum is points in your favor, but if Slam flips scum too then It stops even being a question in my mind that you're scum. I was wrong about GB so I at least owe you a relook. I have literally no control over slam's alignment. Hell, if he flips mafia I'm more likely to be town because I fucking brought up the point gb didn't vote on his counterwagon despite being in the thread at least close to the deadline. You don't get to call me scum by association. You're mafia. Now die. What was it, 1 page ago I was scum for thinking you're townie after the flip, a few posts later I'm scum because I won't change my mind on you. The fuck is the irrational pushing of me. I'm in the middle of reading your filter. As I said I owe you a relook. But are you kidding me with this? No matter what I say you're trying to skew it in some way. God I really hope you are scum. Aren't you supposed to be a vet of TL mafia? Being this stubborn and quite frankly stupid is going to lose town the game. I am not being stubborn. And it's not me who is skewing your words as much as the opposite. "What was it, 1 page ago I was scum for thinking you're townie after the flip, a few posts later I'm scum because I won't change my mind on you." I am talking about how and why, not what. I didn't call you scum for thinking I'm townie. I called you scum for thinking I'm townie while not in any way removing previous suspicion. IE you took WHAT happened without even thinking about HOW it happened. Show nested quote +On January 05 2016 07:58 ExO_ wrote:On January 05 2016 07:57 Palmar wrote:On January 05 2016 07:56 ExO_ wrote:On January 05 2016 07:54 sicklucker wrote:
Hum so we lynch exo tormorow Why would you lynch me? I'm somehow scum now? Either way I'll argue with you in a sec. Right now we need to focus on this vote you're not trying to re-evaluate your reads, you're just happy with a massive status quo of a lynch list that you want to go down. You could very well be scum, especially based on your complete reluctance to admit any of my effort today. I bet you barely even read it. I'll freely admit I didn't read the walls of text you posted. I skimmed them but I definitely didn't read them super closely. And I don't think anything you say is going to cause me to reevaluate you. Unless somebody like Damdred or Ritoky can explain to me why you are super townie I'm going to continue thinking you are scum. You even admit that you have no idea how it happened. You literally don't care about the process of things that ended up with me getting GB lynched. You don't care if my logic was sound you don't care if it was just a shitty bus or an actual analysis. And now I'm calling you mafia not for being stubborn, but because you're being stubborn in a way that doesn't make any logical sense for a townie. The only trigger to re-evaluating my alignment is that some random dude I happened to want to kill turned out to be mafia. Even then you have no idea if I just bussed him as scum or if I actually got him lynched legit.
I thought GB was town I was pretty sure of it. So I didn't really care about the process leading to his lynch at the time, because I thought he was town. I was concerned with getting the wagon off of GB at all costs. I have to reevaluate you, because I was wrong on GB. If I was wrong on GB I might also be wrong about the motivations leading to his lynch. However I'm really struggling to do that right now b/c I have to read your filter while replying to this thread. And its very hard to getting an objective mind when you are sitting here skewing everything I say.
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*ebwop hard to keep an objective mind
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yeah fuck it I'm out anyway
go reread, try to be less bad.
Also, hint: I didn't start posting because I was being pressured or because I found a lead or because jesus told me.
I started posting because it was roughly 9am on a monday at work and I had checked my monitoring systems and email, and decided to mafia a bit because there wasn't much to do. It was also the first day since day 1 where the lynch wasn't sort of automatic.
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On January 06 2016 00:51 ExO_ wrote:
*ebwop hard to keep an objective mind
Why would you strive to do that when your perspective up until now has been "fuck objectiveness, I religiously think palmar is mafia"
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On January 06 2016 00:54 Palmar wrote:Why would you strive to do that when your perspective up until now has been "fuck objectiveness, I religiously think palmar is mafia"
Again, I thought I was right. Until something upsets the status quo (me being wrong on GB) I'm going to continue thinking I'm right. No reason to be objective on you if you're scum.
Again 4 dead townies (townies btw that you all called as town before they died, something I've come across reading right now) thought you were scum.
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fuck it I'm actually going away
see you tonight maybe.
If I don't come back, don't lynch sl, damdred, onegu and ritoky. Probably don't lynch NM and maybe don't lynch exo. lynch into slam, shining, oo maybe ows
It's super important to remember the people who are not doing jack shit or just show up to randomly say things when it's convenient.
It's almost a good idea to just lynch shortest filter first tbh.
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On January 06 2016 00:56 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2016 00:54 Palmar wrote:On January 06 2016 00:51 ExO_ wrote:
*ebwop hard to keep an objective mind Why would you strive to do that when your perspective up until now has been "fuck objectiveness, I religiously think palmar is mafia" Again, I thought I was right. Until something upsets the status quo (me being wrong on GB) I'm going to continue thinking I'm right. No reason to be objective on you if you're scum. Again 4 dead townies (townies btw that you all called as town before they died, something I've come across reading right now) thought you were scum.
It's because they're bad and I'm good.
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On January 06 2016 00:57 Palmar wrote:
fuck it I'm actually going away
see you tonight maybe.
If I don't come back, don't lynch sl, damdred, onegu and ritoky. Probably don't lynch NM and maybe don't lynch exo. lynch into slam, shining, oo maybe ows
It's super important to remember the people who are not doing jack shit or just show up to randomly say things when it's convenient.
It's almost a good idea to just lynch shortest filter first tbh.
Awh.
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I just opened his filter it's 6 pages.
He's actually a surprisingly good candidate for mafia.
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I'm gonna close this window now though, you can figure out yourselves if he's mafia.
I'm looking forward to hard hitting analysis.
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I'm not that sure exo is mafia, but he infuriates the fuck out of me. d1 palmar is probably better than d3 palmar at reading him anyway.
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On December 29 2015 23:22 Palmar wrote:
Status report thing:
Town:
Coag (mason)
Rsoultin (mason)
Maybe Town:
rayn: he's annoyingly suspicious of me but most of the other things he has done this game look like town rayn. He's agitated but involved. He doesn't take bullshit and he does the thing which he always does as town. When he called me out based on the switch to Vivax thing earlier today it was a super red text/green text rayn moment, even if it was based on him misunderstanding
Exo: I'm less sure because he hasn't done jack shit today and I feel like he was not much involved yesterday. However I think the point I made yesterday about his paranoid scenario regarding the masons is still much more likely to come from town.
Koshi: He lead the shennies which isn't scummy at all. He's also been spiteful and tonally "correct" this game. He isn't timid and doesn't ask shitty questions. It's mostly a tone read but still, I think it's ok.
Maaaaaaaaybe town:
HF: He hasn't said anything particularly annoying that I've noticed, and I also feel like he isn't actively looking for a fight which he does a ton as mafia. He off-handedly called GB mafia yesterday in such a casual way. He's perfectly capable of playing like this as mafia, but if I try to not be too paranoid I'd probably bet on town.
Trfel: He said something at some point that I liked. I can't really remember what or why, but I'm trusting my earlier read until I have a reason not to
Other people I know something about but don't really have an opinion on:
Vivax: Should be shot. Can't be allowed to live until lylo, but I have no idea if he's scum or just a moron.
Ritoky: He made a case that I didn't read, but at least he made a case so... idk?
Damdred: I don't remember him saying anything particularly intelligent which is a good way to townread him, and I feel like he's been background-y and meh. But I also know that usually when I think Damdred is mafia he isn't.
People I haven't read/don't remember/decided to ignore
Onegu
sicklucker
OO
Moosey
boxerfred
ness
Slam
Obiwan
Shining
Ticktock
There's probably quite a few mafia in this list. if I'm wrong about 1-2 of my scummy people there's 2-4 mafia in the peopel that I've ignored because that's the way it always is. I'll try to work on this list tonight and tomorrow if I'm alive.
Maybe scum:
Kush: Bad vote on me, called out Exo for things he didn't understand. He's been pretty shit all over
Artanis: he's being super reasonable and willing to listen to people. I know he isn't rayn or some other tunnel god, but still, it's a bit over the top how much he's trying to let other people form their own opinions and barely prodding it. Just like yesterday I didn't read his ows case I haven't read hf today and he doesn't really seem to care.
Probably scum:
GlowingBear: called me out in a really awkward way yesterday and then got into a argument I think. The main thing is that he was reading a conversation about a thing, and then asked about the very thing the conversation was about. It's 100% clear he wasn't actually reading the part of the thread he asked about, he just saw something and ran with it.
Day 2 your hardest scum read turns out to be scum. The only interaction you had with him was:
On December 29 2015 03:57 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2015 02:37 GlowingBear wrote:
Also, Palmar, if you hadn't read anything and you didn't catch up, how do you know coag and rsoultin are masons? How can you not know the answer to this when the argument That followed was literally about the very source of my info
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Exo, Palmar is not mafia.
Go do something else.
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palms town. I even took the time to read his filter over this morning.
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 30 2015 01:16 Palmar wrote:
Actually screw it. I just looked at artanis' filter. He didn't mention me at all before this. He started out yesterday by asking me to look into OWS then not caring that I didn't. Same thing with HF this night. He did at some point start going along with thread sentiment.
"Could probably lynch Palmar"
"Should look more into Palmar"
etc
But no reasons, no proof that he has actually read it.
Then he returns to the thread and suddenly it's "I WILL LITERALLY SKULLFUCK YOUR CORPSE PALMAR", and I'm like "dude relax".
The only reasonable explanation is that artanis actually read through my filter and now believes he found something. The problem of course is he's been bitching about not being able to play so I really doubt that. I also feel like he would've mentioned it if he read through my filter.
This makes him mafia every time.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 30 2015 01:25 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2015 01:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 30 2015 01:22 Palmar wrote:On December 30 2015 01:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 30 2015 01:18 Palmar wrote:On December 30 2015 01:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 30 2015 01:10 Palmar wrote:On December 30 2015 01:07 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On December 30 2015 01:05 Palmar wrote:On December 30 2015 00:40 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also if I'm right on Palmar I don't think OWS is scum because I don't think two scum are going to be the only ones to attack me when everyone else is townreading me. But you definitely think the one guy who does is scum. Especially the one that both lead the suspicion and the one that actually provided reasoning. If you are somehow town, you should dismiss my suspicions as just that and actually consider me more favorably for actually exploring things that others aren't exploring. OWS is barely attacking you, he said like one sentence about you. Even I am not really attacking you, I just pointed out a tonal thing that looks a bit off and could make you mafia, and you decided to make a u-turn on everything because of those two little things. There is no way that you genuinely 100% believe that my suspicion of you can ONLY come from mafia perspective. No, you have no focus. You haven't had focus all game. You're just spewing out what you think gets you townread. Your effort has not been in finding scum. I don't need to convince you that you're scum though. At what point did you discover I had no focus and thus I must be killed with a vengeance? Because I don't recall you mentioning anything of the sort before right now? What do you even mean by focus? You're prodding everywhere but you're not actually doing anything. Everything you do and read seems convenient and focused more on just posting things than anything else. No I'm not. The only thing that is barely true is that yes, I am mostly interacting with the things that are in the thread when I am in the thread. Other than that, this is just bullshit. Alright. What original thoughts have you brought to the thread? Exo's tinfoil = town thing GB's inconsistent questioning HF's calling out of GB being sort of townie Your attitude being distant/weird/uninterested Koshi toneread hell, just go throught the list I literally pasted a page back or so. Most of the things I think about the game are in that list. Already mentioned by two people before you. Already mentioned by HF. Already agreed upon by Rayn and myself. Extremely shitty. Already made by me. The fact other people have the same thoughts as me does not invalidate mine. And I doubt anyone explained the exo thing with the reason I did, although I don't quite know.
And this is where my scum reading of you really starts. I agree with what Artanis said. you hadn't done much to advance the thread. You mostly had repeated other people's opinions up to this point in various ways. You say Artanis is either scum or he found something on you. We know he Artanis isn't scum, so at this point I'm inclined to agree with what Artanis was saying. Hell you yourself earlier in your filter you said Artanis was being very reasonable.
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town vrs town early game is super common tho...
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Just an FYI, I know that exo has a history of getting into these long, detailed tunnels on people so him going nuts over his Palmar scumread doesn't look terrible despite it being misguided.
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I'm on page 11 of Palmar filter.
On January 04 2016 22:42 Palmar wrote:
it'd be really grand for town if I actually flipped mafia after this, so many associative reads to be had.
On January 04 2016 22:39 Palmar wrote:
(the reason I'm doing these is that there is a very real chance there is enough lynch inertia to just kill me today even if no one is really sure why. I'm trying to be useful! Such town, wow.)
He posts both of these while making some pretty big read posts. So in my mind its either one of 2 things happening:
He's scum and really trying to talk his way out of a lynch. Like to an incredible extent. Or he's town and actually trying to help town. The amount of effort it would take to post all of his read posts leads me to believe it's just too much effort to put into something as scum. If he is scum here it's incredibly well done.
That being said the other tidbit I get from reading Palmar's filter so far is Kush. Palmar is really pushing Kush at this point, and I tend to agree as I read it. If Kush flips scum, it basically confirms Palmar as town.
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EPT
