EPTHopefully this starts before the holidays, so I can spend Xmas day getting drunk and mislynching Alex.
Newbie Student Mafia XVIII
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Fidei86
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Hopefully this starts before the holidays, so I can spend Xmas day getting drunk and mislynching Alex. | ||
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On December 15 2015 20:35 Half the Sky wrote: Please. He needs the noose after what he did to me in Dark Tournament  <3 Eh, when I tell people about DT, I'll say that Alex sheeped me on to you. Still wish I had yolo shot you n1. | ||
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On December 18 2015 23:43 disformation wrote: Tons of hosts and coaches. WTB players!  People scared that my #streak of six games town without being mislynched is going to continue. | ||
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Holy Guardians - Town - Loss - Onegu throw. Newbie XII - Town - Win - HTS carry Personalities - Town - Loss - Kita endgamed Himalayas - Town - Loss - I was masoned with Tina, but nobody would lynch the red-checked Holyflate #wtf. Seem to recall there was an Onegu throw here too. Newbie XIV - Town - Loss - Fidei throw SOTW2 - Mafia - Win - Rels carried Dark Tournament - Town - Win - TheShining carry | ||
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Shit. Scott has shown he's very good at reading me. Alex is jealous because I steal his wife from him at night to play Dota. I'm definitely not making it very far if I roll scum this game. | ||
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On December 23 2015 08:53 Tictock wrote: WTH Fidei... I clearly carried scum in HG, and threw Personalities by not fighting my ass off (only time people seem to be willing to consider me town). I demand I be credited accordingly. Also I was told you might need another coach but it looks like maybe you've got enough? Not really sure I'd qualify anyways. History is written by the historians! | ||
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Alex/NM's opening on me is the most NAI post I've ever seen - he and I always joke about lynching each other pre-game. I don't see how GB could have got anything from that post. GB have you played with NM before? The rest of GB's contributions are pretty ehhh as well. The only thing that sticks out to me is that the last time GB did a claim first post was Newbie XIV, where he was scum and claimed "not not doctor" or some such bullshit. Has anyone else noticed anything similar? The thing that irks me about Alex/NM's play is always his tone. I usually think when people type too formally it's a Mafia tell, because they're the ones concerned about things being out of place. But with him, that's just how he is. Maybe it's a doctor thing? Content wise, I liked his post at #202. I don't think it makes Irish scum at all, but this is how Scott plays. His activity is always up and down, and he basically has a "see say" way of playing town. He also has played a lot with GB afaik. If anything, I'd give Scott a slight TR. Null on Alex/NM though. Onegu has a horrible record of AFKing though D1 and then getting replaced. Ugh. I'm not going to hold my breath on that. I'm not sure what to make of ShapeLog. For an experienced player, the fact that like 80% of his posts are totally off topic would be a major warning sign. But since he doesn't have all that many posts, it could be that he's just feeling comfortable in the thread. As someone who is literally terrified of posting whenever I roll mafia, this is pretty towny to me WITH THE CAVEAT THAT IT IS FUCKING ANNOYING AND SHITS UP THE THREAD WHICH IS VERY ANTI-TOWN. Ahem. Don't spam posts please people. | ||
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On December 29 2015 18:32 mderg wrote: Meh, reading this thread is difficult when you don't know most of those names. People are quick to jump on GB, I like that because his opening was fishy but I also don't like it because it feels too easy. I'll have to see how that continues. Don't like GiygaS so far... Has made like 7 posts but I didn't see anything of substance. The fist reads also don't really seem that strong. I have a slight townread on NocturneMage, he's being out there and being open about his thoughts. He's also asking lots of questions which makes me think he's trying to solve the game. He is a dirty league player, though... I don't understand your read on Gigya versus your read on ShapeLog. I read Gigya's thread and I agree with what you say - it's basically soft town reads on a couple of people based on activity with the rest OOC filler. But then, look at ShapeLog's filter. It's mostly the same, except three times longer. | ||
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On December 29 2015 20:41 mderg wrote: I haven't really gone through his filter because it's annoying to read and didn't notice anything special from him in the thread (aside from spam). I guess that also doesn't make him look too good considering the filter size. I agree it's annoying, but what do you think about his alignment? | ||
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Onegu claims VT in every game he plays, whether it's voice or forum. It is super NAI. Hopefully he'll be less useless than all the other games we have played together, but somehow I doubt it >> | ||
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On December 29 2015 20:27 Irishbound wrote: @Fiedei - Snapes pregame posts inside the thread were very similar in that he'd post a lot with not much of it being particularly game related, think it's just a playstyle type thing for him. Can you explain your town read on Scott for me as well as comment on what about my scum-read on him you disagree with please. I've played with Scott in three games. The first was Holy Guardians, the second was NMXII and the third NMXIV. In HG he played very aggressive and accusatory, and was town. In the second game, he AFK'd and was town. In the third he actually played really well and I ML'ed him at LYLO for the town loss. But the thing I remember about his d1 in that game was that he would tend to quote long pieces of text and give a quick reaction to them. He didn't give long reads, he just sort of surfed the thread. His play here matches that. I also recall that he likes to tease GB (and indeed nearly got GB lynched d1 in XIV). It's a little thing, but if Scott and GB were adverse, I'd expect Scott to stay away from reading him early. So it's a bunch of little things, really. Usual caveat - it's early etc. But yeah. | ||
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On December 30 2015 00:08 NocturneMage wrote: Alright, this post. I am assuming you think GB is scummy, which a lot of other people are sayign as well. Are you saying his claim could make him more or less mafia? I gave an explanation earlier of how it could be anti-town but not necessarily scummy. Also I don't understand by what you meant by see say way of town. I'm not sure your stance is reasonable from the perspective that you haven't played with a scum Scott before. How do you know his post couldn't possibly come from a scum perspective? The tone read on me is confusing at best. In Dark Tournament you compared me to a Jack Russell on meth because I was emotional and last game I admitted that I was playing emotionally because Trfel and Half the Sky were in that game and both of those players had me on full tilt all game. The existence of HTS in general will have me on full tilt in any game as you should know but as neither of those players are present do you think my current tone is unusual or makes me mafia? You said before that my current tone is what you'd normally expect of me. So the meta change really doesn't make sense to me. I guess you caught me - everything that GB has done has basically been a big pile of "ehh". He has a lot of townreads and not much else. Scott pointing that out is NAI - it's just pointing out something that is factually true. I don't want to lynch GB off the back of it - hell we enough people AFKing through D1 to make a ton of better options. Re my tone read on Scott - that's fair. I might be set in my ways a little bit on him. I don't think Scott really has anything of any substance in his filter, so I'll move him back to null. As to my read on you - the first time we played together you were meek, the second you were outraged, and both times you were town. This time you seem more ... in the middle? I can't really fault any of your content though. Rels' Useful List of Useless People: - Onegu - TheCow | ||
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On December 30 2015 03:50 Shapelog wrote: Oh wait we have the lynch tomorrow nvm Shapelog. Please stop spamming the thread with new thoughts every few minutes. We're not really in danger of getting out of control at this stage, but it makes it much more difficult for town to focus on what's important. I'm getting flashbacks to having to re-read Moosy's 36 page filter at the end of NSMXIV... | ||
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On December 30 2015 02:06 mderg wrote: I don't think talking about the probability of lynching scum D1 is a good idea. I will strongly oppose a lynch like that, if you still want to plynch Onegu at the end of the day. Let me give you a brief history lesson. I have played with Onegu a number of times, and if he *doesn't* AFK through D1 and get replaced, he inevitably keeps his activity at an absolute minimum until the end of the game, regardless of alignment. Obviously it's easy to skate by as mafia without saying anything. But it's even worse as town because scum always can get an easy ML on him later in the day. TL has, in my view, a real problem with its aversion to considering policy lynches. I actually agree with kush here - if Onegu doesn't give us something to work with by tomorrow, he should be gone. I'm sick of losing games because he cba to play until LYLO. | ||
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On December 30 2015 10:26 NocturneMage wrote: Can you explain this post when you can? You are saying that you agreed with the read on GigyaS, and thus you scumread him (????) but then you are making a like to like comparison to Shapelog who you are townreading? Can you explain if this affects your townread on Shapelog or whether it should because I don't otherwise understand what you are getting at here? At the time, I thought that both Shape and Gigya were guilty of a serious lack of content. The difference, in my mind, was that Shape appeared to be loitering in the thread looking for activity, whereas Gigya ninja'ed in and out. However, on the premise that mderg adopted (ie just a lack of substance), there wasn't too much between Shape and Gigya. I actually really liked mderg's response to my prodding - he sort of admitted that his post wasn't as full as it could have been. | ||
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Town Irishbound - I liked that from the outset he considered a wide range of players (see #408). Although I am null-y on Scott, it is hard to fault Irish's reasoning. Moreover, the fact that he has been on Scott for his posts, rather than some of the other low activity players (eg Onegu, Gigya) suggests that he's scum-hunting rather than looking for an easy out. Finally, I thought that his read on me was honest and the fact that he asked Alex for guidance (at #416) felt like a genuine cry for help. Shapelog - I really, really don't like Shape's approach to posting. Spam posting like he does is a pretty effective mafia tactic to confuse the thread and dissuade people from reading their filter. HOWEVER, I note that he had more than a page of filter in pre-game. Moreover, his posting has struck me more as someone who wants to play the game and is impatient with everyone else (see eg #232). That, to me, is something that a relatively new player would find difficult to replicate as mafia. I also liked him criticising GB for giving him a town read at #302 - as mafia it's much easier just to take the read and pocket it rather than challenge it. Finally, his list post at #448 covered all the bases for a town list post for me. The Cow - I am a sucker for people who post infrequently but give detailed reads and thoughts. His read on me seemed very genuine and is actually something I agree with, in that I struggle to condense my thoughts down as far as I would like, and I tend to focus on ephemera (tone, overall posting strategy) rather than digging down into the weeds of detail. I like that he comes in with strong reads on Scott and Kmatt, then follows them up with helpful questions. I think most people (myself included) have been giving Irish a free-pass so far, so it's very useful to have someone sense-checking that as well. Null Mderg - I like his pressuring on Noon/Kush as well regarding D1. Someone said in the thread earlier that they lynch scum 60% of games D1. I don't think it's that high for me, but mderg is right that a successful d1 lynch for town reaaaaally fucks scum. He has a couple of short posts that give interesting insight (eg #376), but generally he seems pretty focussed on pushing his kush / GB association without looking wider than that. Alex/NM - Alex pointed out in an earlier post that my read on Scott was based on playing with him only as town. Fair enough. My reads on Alex are coloured by the same thing - we've been town together twice. He is doing his usual prodding / poking and asking lots of questions. One concern I have is that I see the progression for his Scott read, and his GB read seems to be foreshadowed at #391, but I'm not sure he really has given any particular read on Kush/Noon to date? I agree with the read, but I'm not sure how he got there. GB - I have played with GB a fair few times before, but he plays differently every time and I usually rely on others to give a good read on him. Here, he has really given out town reads with very little supporting evidence (he 'liked' Alex's opening at (#195), when that was a JOKE OPENING!), and then placed a vote on Kmatt without explanation (#333). As an experienced player, this sort of high-read / low-analysis approach would be easily explained as either lazy/distracted town or mafia. Someone said that GB is in another game at the moment, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now. There are definitely better lynches today. Kmatt - The big red flag for me here is what others have already pointed out - he seems very reluctant to give reads. That is understandable for a new player in his first game (#383). He does make an interesting point on GB that I kinda agree with (#197 - GB trying to buddy up to the thread). I think there are a lot of better lynches than Kmatt, but he's definitely someone to look back at if he doesn't start firming things up through D2. Scott - This is ugh. I think I'm actually better qualified than most people to read Scott, given that we've played three games together and I have given him a lot of attention in each. Yes, he and I have been town in each. HOWEVER, as I said before he has a number of different playstyles that seem to accord to how busy he is. And this is probably a mean thing to say, but I don't think he switches it up to keep his meta clean and I'm not sure he could. All that said, his content is totally garbage. He has had garbage content before as town. His read on Noon ("why would he TR me going against thread sentiment") is utterly idiotic, mostly because at that point there wasn't much thread sentiment against Scott AND because Noon's read was obviously weak. I don't want to jump straight onto Scott today because I think there are better lynches, and because (unlike others) he is very capable of coming back into the thread and being useful. Scum Gigya - He has a filter almost totally devoid of reads. His one TR is Irish (#214) but at the same time in his post at #192 he actually says that as Irish is experienced, the post could have been faked. ???. He also suspects GB for his "matter of fact town read", even though he agrees with it? The only thing keeping this from moving into policy is that he has a couple of posts where he talks about non-game stuff (#225, #228). If you have time to do that, you have time to play as well. This is how newbie mafia play, imo. Noon/Kush - This whole filter makes me want to facepalm. He TRs Scott for saying he could "possibly jump" on someone else's read. WTF? I just don't understand this read at all - mafia are the ones who are going to hedge and give weak reads, not town. He then goes into a day-long "woe is me, D1 is so hard" stupor, which is (a) totally destructive to town, and (b) effective at hiding his thoughts on the game. Having said that, he then seems to basically mindlessly sheep GB onto his read onto Kmatt. I also don't follow his point about NM and KMatt whiteknighting, since a bunch of other people also came into the thread to say that timestamp analysis wasn't helpful. He then also prods a bunch of people into giving reads, despite the fact that he himself has given almost no content. Policy Onegu - Please all think of a world where we get to LYLO or LYLO-1 and Onegu still hasn't said anything, still hasn't been modkilled and still hasn't been lynched. He does this EVERY GAME HE PLAYS. And it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for town to win if it gets that far, because he is a total coin-flip and the easiest ML in the world. His content is totally absent. I'm going to vote Gigya for now, but I'd consolidate onto Onegu or Kush if necessary later. ##Vote -- Gigya | ||
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On December 30 2015 23:30 Kmatt wrote: Pretty much the same sentiment as above for me. I leave for work in 30 mins and don't get out until 5pm Burger-time (vote o'clock). However I am going to assert that GB is the more dangerous target. Sure, Scott was acting "scummy" by not really participating, but he hasn't really derailed the thread or caused trouble (yet). GB on the other hand is an active poster who has been calling quite a few scumreads (myself included) with virtually no justification, as well as some very empty townreads. The fishy interactions with Noon are enough to seal the deal for me. More importantly, if we were to lynch Scott, we would learn almost nothing. Even if he came up scum, his posts have been so hollow that we wouldn't have a solid lead to go from there. Unless GB can clean up his act in time, there's a lot more to be gained out of him. ##unvote GiygaS ##vote GlowingBear ... Okay, I'll bite. My view is that lynching people for 'information' on D1 is basically the worst thing we can do. Without any flips -- and particularly without any scum flips -- associative reads are pretty much worthless. We should either lynch scum, or Onegu as a plynch. But since you're here I'll ask - what about the GB/kush interaction don't you like? I think it's extremely fishy that Kush says "I don't know how to play D1 I have no reads woe is me" and then immediately jumps onto GB's vote on you, but I don't really see how that reflects badly on GB? | ||
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On December 30 2015 07:39 GlowingBear wrote: Ok fully caught up I'm voting Kmatt because reasons ##Vote: Kmatt @GB as far as I can see, you never posted this into the voting thread. Just in case you'd forgotten. | ||
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If you actually want to help then give your thoughts on Scott/Noon/Gigya, or anything else really. | ||
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This thread re-entry so close to EOD is just so super suspect to me. He comes back in as one of the four leading wagons, and without anything further says "oh I'm going to choose between one of the other leading wagons once I've read their stuff". And the two people he's choosing between are both voting for him. ??? I really don't want to lynch into Scott/Kmatt right now. There are a bunch of better options (Kush / Gigya / Onegu). I think Gigya is the most likely to flip scum. The fact that Scott is on him as well just makes me even less excited about lynching him. | ||
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On December 31 2015 04:34 GiygaS wrote: Ok, I've read the thread. Going to go over fdei's filter again and then decide between him and scott. This thread re-entry so close to EOD is just so super suspect to me. He comes back in as one of the four leading wagons, and without anything further says "oh I'm going to choose between one of the other leading wagons once I've read their stuff". And the two people he's choosing between are both voting for him. ??? I really don't want to lynch into Scott/Kmatt right now. There are a bunch of better options (Kush / Gigya / Onegu). I think Gigya is the most likely to flip scum. The fact that Scott is on him as well just makes me even less excited about lynching him. | ||
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ugh | ||
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On December 31 2015 03:25 nooniansoong wrote: lemme summarize reasoning for voting fidei real quick. Several posts that are long and have nothign to do with scumhunting. Talking about past games, talking about the virtues of policy lynches, etc. In his big reads post, his scumreads are summaries of me and gigas' play put into a scummy light. He latches on to some of my trolly posts and doesn't stop to think "why would scum make such overtly scummy posts"? None of the posts I pointed out were trolling. I can see lots of scum motivation for saying how hard the day is and how bad you are at it. That's a classic way of avoiding actually making any f***ing reads. That part of the case is garbage. As to talking about previous games and policy lynches ... I literally always do that. And it's actually been super relevant here (how can you scum read me for doing it, but not Scott when Scott's case on Onegu is literally 100% meta). I need to consolidate onto Kmatt or Scott. Leaning Scott, just because his thread re-entry is so opportunistic. | ||
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Where did your GB scum-read come from? | ||
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On January 01 2016 14:18 NocturneMage wrote: The second question regarding Onegu - since I've never played with him before is that is the whole finding scum thing based on scumreads on you - is this something he does as town, mafia or both alignments? I've never seen mafia Onegu. Whenever I've played with him as town, he's generally contributed nothing until D3 or D4. By that point, he generally gets pushed by scum. This helps him solve the game, but by that stage his thread pull is usually so shot that townies are happy to move onto him. In this game he has actually posted more than he usually does. I just want to talk a little bit about this 'scum-slip' before I re-read some other filters. This is the quote again: Policy Onegu - Please all think of a world where we get to LYLO or LYLO-1 and Onegu still hasn't said anything, still hasn't been modkilled and still hasn't been lynched. He does this EVERY GAME HE PLAYS. And it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for town to win if it gets that far, because he is a total coin-flip and the easiest ML in the world. His content is totally absent. I was discussing a policy lynch, wherein you essentially have to disregard your target's alignment and lynch them. If they are scum, great! If they are town, you lynched them because they are so disruptive and/or unhelpful that town is better off anyway. Obviously this is a tool you want to use very judiciously, because mislynches are bad. But my experience of AFK Onegu is that it's better to get it out of the way sooner (and hope he's scum). This wasn't a lynch suggestion based reads. This was a POLICY lynch. I could have spelt it out a bit more fully, where it would have said "[he is] the easiest ML in the world if he is town, and if he's mafia we had no chance to get a read on him." I sort of thought that bit was implied, but w/e. My issue with Onegu's approach is that he: 1. Joke voted me 2. Found this 'slip', despite having seen me post the same thing before in every game we've played together (and always both been town) 3. Ignored Shape saying basically exactly the same thing 4. Now has a scum read on GB which seems to come from GB trying to meta read Onegu and Onegu saying GB should know better. But he ignored that scott also had a meta read on him (perhaps because scott's meta read was town?). My issue with this approach is that it is very easy for him, as mafia, to come into the thread and spew the same stuff over and over again about the 'slip'. That is super scummy to me. | ||
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On January 02 2016 02:30 GiygaS wrote: Kmatt may have been first to vote, but all his reasoning was said before by others. He didn't point to those posts though, he presented the insights as his own by adding some random quotes from GB's filter. He did the exact same thing on me too. I still have him as a major scumlean, as this is pretty much his only analysis content. The post where he answered a lot of questions he just summarized the situations. This with his weird reasoning to flip back to GB again despite not liking his scum lean because he's "more dangerous". Hmm that's a fair point. It's def scummier just to sheep onto someone with no new reasons, but I hadn't thought about the possibility of sheeping onto someone for new reasons. Honestly Kmatt's read and vote progression was pretty all over the place D1. Usually that's something I push really hard. The issue I've had though is that everyone who has played like this has usually been newbie town, rather than scum. When I was scum in SOTW2 I was sort of terrified to change my vote at all. Has Kmatt explained what he meant by 'more dangerous'? I'd like to hear it if he has. Will look at his filter now. | ||
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On January 01 2016 15:02 NocturneMage wrote: Can you explain this? (bolded) If you read Noon's filter carefully you will see subsequent pushback. I think that when I made my post, things hadn't really moved on from his read on Kmatt. I do think up to around that point he was pretty scummy, for the reasons I gave. After that, though, I think his filter has been ... up and down. I liked alot that he thought over the case against Kmatt, and engaged GB on it quite extensively. It's difficult to see a particularly scummy reason for defending Kmatt -- scum would probably prefer to keep that avenue open (see #404). I did not like his case on me at all at #513, and a couple of other people posted that it was quite lacking. He actually says specifically at #571 that he didn't vote me for the scum slip, he did it because of his case. But as soon as the day was over, he admitted his case was bad (#633). Since then he has questioned Onegu on scum slips (#668), and thrown a bunch of shade on people at #696. He admitted in his post that the reads were ehhh, and I agree they were. Still, I think it's townie to start thinking about people others hadn't really been (especially mderg and Irish). I see that an experienced scum would probably start doing that now to set up the board for late game, but for a newer player I think it makes a ton more sense to just be typical townie paranoia. I also don't like that he aggressively pushed his case on me up until EOD, at which point he dropped it and hasn't really talked about me since. That could be because he realised he was tied to a weak case, and that the easiest thing was just to drop it. At the same time, we now know that scott was town, so it kinda makes more sense for this to be a townie Kush re-evaluating. That especially makes sense because Kush was town-reading scott and so would definitely have wanted me to get lynched, since I was the only other viable wagon. So, yeah. I think kush is probably town. | ||
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On January 02 2016 23:30 nooniansoong wrote: Do not clap for a wall of text lol. Kush you here? What do you think about Kmatt's post? Ithe thing that stands out to me is the hyper aggressive tone. Its kind of a change from his D1. Now you have to read it too | ||
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On January 02 2016 23:58 nooniansoong wrote: Fidei.I didn't read it. I skimmed it and it confirms my newb town read. Yes it's aggressive in tone which I think is town coming from a newer player. He seems to believe what he's saying. Except town does do all those things he said town doesn't do. So I don't think it's a good case. I don't think being aggressive in reads is necessarily newb town, especially when that townie has previously been kinda meek. Ehhhh. I really want to hear from Shining and Alex (NM) before I update all my reads. I'll quickly read GB's filter a bit to see if I can get a handle on it. That said, the fact that Onegu is so happy to jump onto GB for literally the flimsiest reasons I've ever seen make me more sure that Onegu is scum, which makes it unlikely GB is with him. But, associative reads, I get it. | ||
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1. His early reads were mostly town reads and were short, but that fits in with him being in another game. Kmatt puts a lot of emphasis on that in his case, but it's NAI if anything. In my mind it's more towny than anything as he would find it harder to walk back if he needed for a ML. 2. My experience of playing GB is that he struggles to maintain calm when he plays as scum. In the game we played together, he was much more acerbic and less flexible with his reads. He's different here - note #736 where he re-evaluates on Kmatt. GB is an experienced player who probably could change up his meta, but I think he's probably town. He's not the lynch today for sure. | ||
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On January 03 2016 00:55 mderg wrote: I don't like this post at all. You're simply using his reads to vote without giving it any real thought. You're also ignoring pretty much all of his other reads this game. That's not town play. ##vote GB I'm going to go look at Irish's filter now, to check. GB's recap looks right to me, but best to be sure. | ||
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He sets out his reads at #427, which are: Scott scum NM town GB town Kush scum mderg town Kmatt town Fidei null Shape town Gigya scum Onegu null/town Not really sure which reads you think GB missed out mderg? Gonna check your filter now for your progression on GB. | ||
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##vote: Onegu | ||
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On January 04 2016 08:19 Kmatt wrote: Okay so all things considered that last 10 minutes were pure bull. I'll admit I might have been having a bit of fun with my write-up. Still, there's one point I'd like to have explained by anyone at this point. I could tag most any of his quoted posts as being anti-town, but my biggest issue (which I'm honestly surprised that it seems to be overlooked) is right here: (For context, he was voting on me day1) Now what in the hell was this. GB Believes me to be scum GB Asserts that Scott is town GB Declares that he would not lynch Scott over a stronger scumread (me) GB Drops his vote on a scumread(me) to intentionally vote Scott who he believed to be town, not because he believed Scott was scum, but because Scott was going to vote Onegu, who GB claimed he had a stronger townread on. Nevermind that Onegu had 0 votes to Scott's leading 4 at the time of the post. At least the other people on Scott's wagon claimed he was scum. GB doesn't even pretend to believe that. And we all know how that ended. That entire logic train leading to the vote switch was entirely anti-town. Just skimming through Kmatt's filter and this post really stands out to me. This is just a fucking bizarre argument to me. At the time when GB voted he was the only voter on you, and there were 4 on scott and three on me. It was EOD and there was a pretty heavily contested lynch. It would be MUCH scummier for GB to have AFK'd through the day and just taken the lynch on Onegu or me (both town). Instead, he consolidated onto Scott, who he thought was more scummy than me. I don't understand the confusion? Isn't that super towny? | ||
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On January 05 2016 21:22 nooniansoong wrote: Ok I think I changed my mind about gb. More later From your filter I think you were town reading him before? So now you're scum reading him? | ||
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On January 05 2016 23:28 nooniansoong wrote: I see you defending GB a lot, but I don't see you putting forth good reasons to vote mderg/gigya/kmatt. Yeah I'm phone posting at work this evening. I'm hoping my TL will be working from home tonight and I can get into it. The short answer is Gigya has offered no content, mderg has been entirely responsive and reactive, and KMatt's tunnel on GB is getting very fishy. But I really want to double check those with filters because I might be getting too tunnelled myself. | ||
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Fidei86
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His first read on GB makes no sense At #237 he notes that people are quick to jump on GB, for reasons that he agrees with "his opening was fishy", but he doesn't like it because it "feels too easy". So the opening is scummy, but people pointing that out is fishy? Huh? His second read on GB is based on a falsity Day 2 he votes GB initially (#741) for absolutely shit reasons - GB quoted Irish's reads accurately, and tried to do some NK WIFOM. Mderg then said that GB had NOT given Irish's reads correctly (which GB had) and voted for him. When called out on it, he tried to say that GB had cherry picked votes, which he HADN'T. This is just a read based on a factual innaccuracy, but instead of admitting the mistake, he doubles down. He parrots other people's reasons for voting His Scott vote at #455 was for reasons that had already been set out by others (set out helpfully by Irish at #441). On top of that, he also says that he's going to "park his vote" there, which is pretty scummy as it indicates a lack of conviction and looks to be leaving himself room to change later. He doesn't actually change his vote, despite not really saying anything about scott through the rest of the day. When he finally explained his GB read after the #741 issue, he basically just summarised what people had said previously about GB. Then at #815 he calls out Kmatt's case, but says that he agrees with some of it and that GB is scum anyway. His posts are responsive and reactive. Most of his posts throughout his filter are responses to other posts. It's a classic scum technique of appearing active, while actually not contributing anything. See, for example, #599, #587, although really most of his filter fits the pattern. His only long posts have come recently, and they seem to have mostly been an explanation of his own play in past games ... big help. LYNCH mderg. Please. ##vote: mderg | ||
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Fidei86
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On January 03 2016 00:55 mderg wrote: I don't like this post at all. You're simply using his reads to vote without giving it any real thought. You're also ignoring pretty much all of his other reads this game. That's not town play. ##vote GB This is your post. So it's not so much that you said that the reads were wrong, but that they were misleading. I just don't see how you could think that. GB posted all of Irish's scum reads, which was the basis of GB's post. | ||
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On January 06 2016 07:49 mderg wrote: I feel like you're arguing about semantics. Of course he wrote down Irish's reads but he simply listed them down and picked the one that was more suitable for him. That was the point of his post - discussing Irish's scum reads.. | ||
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On January 06 2016 08:04 Fecalfeast wrote: ew fidei stop that you're scum for no good reasons, remember? ? | ||
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On January 06 2016 10:08 NocturneMage wrote: Alright, that second point is bad. Wow. I just don't understand this pov. GB said that he thought there was something to be gained by looking at Irish's scum reads. GB then accurately recited Irish's scum reads. Mderg then basically said that GB had done so in a misleading way. But mderg didn't follow up that point by saying "oh yeah you actually can tell something from the other reads Irish had". It isn't like he was trying to make a nuanced argument based on that point, he just shit on GB fullstop. And even if he had, it doesn't matter anyway because GB wasn't purporting to talk about all of Irish's reads in the first place. To me, that is mderg trying to scum GB for bad reasons, at best. And that is following on from his GB read which honestly has made no sense to me the entire game. | ||
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On January 06 2016 10:16 NocturneMage wrote: And third point is also really bad (out of context) because he stated that he couldn't be back before deadline. So that is actually not alignment indicative. So you can definitely make the argument once you read in for context, that Fidei is taking something that isn't alignment indicative and making it so. Fourth point is subjective but we already have half the case shot so... The third point isn't about him parking his vote on GB, it's about the fact that ALL the cases he has posted have actually just been reposts of what other people have said, or re-packagings thereof. If we're going to talk about people misrepresenting stuff NM, perhaps you should look in a fucking mirror. | ||
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On January 06 2016 17:16 GiygaS wrote: Like I'm right that fdei's post could easily be from a town if GB is town right? Chainsaw is only a scumtell if the person they are defending is scum. But then who's scum? I have solid town reads on noon, kmatt and nm. Which means I'm wrong about one of those people or the scum team is 3 of GB, fdei, ff and mderg. Makes a lot more sense for the first 3 to be a scum team than the last one to be on a team with GB and fdei after fdei's post. I agree, I don't think GB and mderg can possibly be on a scum team. | ||
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On January 06 2016 21:21 nooniansoong wrote: And fidei he wasn't just looking at irishs scum reads. He was using that as the basis for his scumread of Gigas. Yeah, I agree that it was NK WIFOM and probably wasn't that helpful. But it's something that townies do all the time and it didn't seem out of place. If that had been mderg's point then I'd have been fine with it. If mderg had tried to work with GB to get the full picture on Irish's reads then that's fine too. But he went straight to scumming GB. That's the part I have a serious issue with. | ||
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On January 06 2016 21:20 nooniansoong wrote: Irish said he had to re-read and reasses therefore his scum reads were going to change This is a very fair point (and a townie point to make as well), but it's not the point mderg made. | ||
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On January 06 2016 22:13 nooniansoong wrote: Here's mderg's post in question. Fidei, you are ignoring the first part: And focusing on the second part: You are nitpicking this part which can be true or not depending on how you interpret it. But really the important part is the first part which you seem to be ignoring. Hmm. I can see your point, but Let me go back to the series of posts again. I think you might be reading too much into that first point. You're right, it could be mderg implying that there are all these issues with the read that you and I came up with now. But at the same time, it could in my view just as easily be a throwaway comment with no deeper thought behind it. | ||
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On January 03 2016 01:04 mderg wrote: What you're doing is basically taking a look at a list with his reads and taking the one that's most convenient for you. Phone posting so can't consolidate, but this is his second post. Will post third in one sec. | ||
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Fidei86
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On January 03 2016 01:09 mderg wrote: I'm not saying he missed any reads. He simply picked one out and decides to vote that one. Without giving it any further thought (aside from "kush is probably town") Third post. Kush, I read your point as being "mderg was implying that there were a number of problems with the way that GB used Irish's reads." That is a possible interpretation of the 'first' section you flagged. But I think the more likely interpretation is that it's just a throwaway line designed to try and undermine GB, with no particular underlying rationale beyond "you didn't give all the reads". If mderg had thought of the deeper points, I don't see why he wouldn't have made them then. And that makes me thinks it's an attempt to fabricate a scum read, rather than a townie attempt to gain information. And this is all the more important because it's when mderg starts voting GB. | ||
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Also kind of surprised my two top scum reads (mderg and Gigya) are the only ones in thread. | ||
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On January 07 2016 07:12 The Shining wrote: LoL yeah I didn't know I was rbd n1 since no one was checked. That was a really good call, though, but Damn. The insta-replacement shot Lmao. Fid would've been my next lynch if I survived the night with a green check on GB. That probably would've given me NM. Kmatt did good at not being necessarily associated to his team. Im still really sad I never get to play blue, replace into it and get shot. Lmao it wasn't even for anything I did xD We shot you because you are a good player It's a compliment | ||
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On January 07 2016 07:19 DoYouHas wrote: NM, I really loved watching your play and mentality grow during this game. You went from uncomfortable and panicked, questioning everything to awesome and panicked, leading your team. Glad I was a catalyst for that (though a little afraid of you now TBH). Kmatt, awesome first game, you did everything scum needs to, you gave the town nothing, hurt their efforts of scumhunting, and didn't die. Plenty of rough edges to polish up, but the foundation is solid. Also *Handshake*, your play worked beautifully. While I still think you are a lucky bastard for that play to even make sense, it is darn impressive that you saw it as an option and had the gumption to pursue it. Fid, I know you are very uncomfortable playing as scum. You also did everything you needed to. You provided the counterpoint to the other scum's efforts and divided the town beautifully. - So proud. *tear* *hugs* "Kmatt, you were amazing. NM you were magnificent. Fidei you were ... there." Kappa | ||
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