EPTDark Tournament Mini Mafia - Page 11
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Do you guys remembering FF enter the thread? At first he was like doing a lot of stuff and I was quite suspect because in last game he was ultra lazy. THen suddenly he goes all "lolz fallout 4"? Voting | ||
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like he was remembering being ultra lazy last game | ||
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Less waffly? Scum read. Actually pushes people? Scum read. Semi decent case? Scum read. Hammers Scum? Scum read. Super fun.  | ||
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On December 09 2015 08:22 The Shining wrote: Hear hear. There is one scum left. It's 6:1. Nk tonight. 5:1. ML 4:1 Nk 3:1 IF IT'S 3:1 TOWN SHOULD SLEEP. NO BLUE FLIP = BLUE CLAIMS. then 2:1 lylo We still have a mislynch. Everyone should post their 2 lynches that solve the game. Im thinking disfo/dyh. DISFO FIRST. Everyone else go Well, town has a bunch of misslynches so if I have to flip green for you to finally lynch DYH I'll gladly do so for ya.  | ||
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On December 09 2015 08:33 The Shining wrote: Is it horrible of me to say this is somewhat accurate? You haven't rolled scum in past games and didn't do any of these in those games. It seriously hinders my ability to tr you. Noted. Instead of getting better at the game I shall remain stagnant. Doesn't seem to matter much whether I get scum read for being waffly or not being waffly. -.- | ||
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Any questions for me? | ||
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On December 09 2015 08:51 The Shining wrote: Well on the off chance that you are town, I don't want to tilt you. But I will say guilting me like this for my read is a mafia trait, especially when I've lynched 2/3 scum. But we can get back to this next day phase if I live through the night. Objectively, though, since it's been brought up that disfo hammering ff doesn't make sense thru votes. But look at votes every phase. Disfo imo looked really bad for being the outlier on hts. He needed the cred for this lynch just to offset that. But I'll stop tunneling. See y'all later Nah, don't worry. So far I have managed to avoid posting stuff when on tilt. On December 09 2015 14:37 The Shining wrote: So I said I wouldn't tunnel. I lied. Disformation is SCUM. I'll probably get around to another filter or 2 soon but here is Disformation's filter RE: fecalfeast/onegu, with some HtS spinkled in. Keep in mind this guy has an 11 page filter. + Show Spoiler + On December 02 2015 07:28 disformation wrote: You ninja you. Can we add MoosyDoosy to this list? Also while we are mentioning Onegu: I shadowed him once, when he was town and I vaguely remember some talk in that game about him claiming/not claiming VT. He simply does this as both alignments right? The above spoiler is the first mention of Onegu in his filter, page 3. No read on him, just a question about him doing the VT claim as both alignments. Admittedly there was nothing much to read him on but there it is. Here is another mention page 4 of his filter. Something interesting I noticed, Onegu's name came up in the post even though he wasn't spoken about. But another thing I wanted to point out. + Show Spoiler + On December 03 2015 04:52 disformation wrote: @HtS: Also: Why did you want to re-read me here? That post was after you asked me some questions, but before I answered them. If HtS is his partner here, here's very aware of her re-reading him. I'm not sure what to make of it but her having to flesh out her Disfo could be a distancing on having to read him one way or the other. I'll have to check her filter to see if she ever got around to it. But look at HtS lynch list. This was early enough that I don't think bussing or soft pushing was plausible. Onegu is "straight policy", not a good lynch becuz that was the FF slot, aka her scum partner. But willing to lynch kush/DYH...kush flipped town. I'm thinking DYH would, too. And the way he's asking her why she wants to re-read him here is weird. It's not like he's trying to figure out her alignment, he's just asking her what she's doing. Remember that when she was lynched, he still had her at null and didn't vote her. + Show Spoiler + On December 03 2015 04:52 disformation wrote: @HtS: Also: Why did you want to re-read me here? That post was after you asked me some questions, but before I answered them. Next is also on page 4. Another instance where Onegu's name on search came up, but he wasn't directly discussing him. On December 03 2015 07:52 disformation wrote: Yeah, his filter is also super bad. I was talking about this earlier. His last post before he vanished gave a bit of a pause, cause it makes less sense for scum... fuck is this game hard. This post is interesting because someone, can't remember who, said the whole idea of "fuck this game is hard" is a mafia tactic to discourage and throw town on tilt. Rels mentions Onegu's absence being NAI but disformation neither agrees nor disagrees here. Also, the quote tree is from Rels to Shining, asking me to read DYH's filter. Disformation chose to answer this for himself, for some reason. On page 5 of his filter, his next mention of the FF/Onegu slot is after FF replaced. + Show Spoiler + On December 04 2015 00:08 disformation wrote: hi, everyone. Doing some chores so semi-around. Some quick thoughts: NocturneMage's Entry: I agree that it feels a bit off that the first post sounds like he is pretty sure HtS is scum and in the last one he talks to her from both perspectives. But I played with both town!NM and scum!NM and his play is like day and night depending on alignment. You can check out NSM13 and NSM 17 to verify. So I feel he will be pretty easy to read, when he plays D2. FecalFeast At first I was a bit worried because he was super lazy in NSM17 as town (until EoD2), but then he mentioned not being here because Fallout 4, so that code checks out. DYH I 100% agree with Rels case. HtS From the top of my head I feel like there is a certain lack on follow ups. I also remembered playing with town!HtS in my first game (NSM9), where she was interrogating me inquisiton style EoD1 and D2 to get some conclusions from me. That kind of fire is a bit missing here I feel. So her coming back to follow up on the promised re-reads of people and throwing out some reads, would be great. These few reads. He gives NM a D2 pass. But it's his FecalFeast and HtS reads that strike me as weird. He softs on HtS, certain lack of follow ups, hints that she plays a different style as town and that that fire is missing. But he leaves her an opening to follow up on re-reads and throw out reads Also, at first he was a bit worried because FF is super lazy as town but since his Fallout excuse checks out, he's less worried. So how is this worrying? If he's super lazy as town, and he's being lazy as town here(which he wasn't town), how would this make you worry? I just don't understand the statement/thought/read. Note that they never once interacted up to this point, at least in Disformation's filter. Here is the first interaction I found, also on page 5: + Show Spoiler + On December 04 2015 08:50 disformation wrote: Yeah. Not entirely trusting NM at the moment. But I also am kinda null of HtS (as explained at night). At the very least I think the case can help us figure out NM, so I want to see what he got. Also HtS has not posted a single thing the nightphase, right? Disfo asks NM to explain his HtS read and vote before NM posted his case. FF makes that post and Disfo follows FF's train of logic to not entirely trust NM. So both are skeptical and suspicious of NM voting confirmed scum HtS. "Kinda null on HtS" is a weird thing to reiterate, too. And instead of going to check her filter to land on either side of null, or to even check if she's posted a single thing during nightphase, he asks the thread instead. This is a thread temperature check. There is another post on page 5 of his filter where he does some voting analysis RE: the kush lynch. This post is interesting, as well. + Show Spoiler + On December 04 2015 10:09 disformation wrote: Vote Count D1 Kushm4sta (7): Fidei86, Damdred, LS, Shining, Rels, HTS, Palm LightningStrike (4): disformation, kushm4sta, DoYouHas, Trfel Not Voting (2): MoosyDoosy, Onegu So. I would assume that at least 1 mafia is on the Kushm4sta train. Let us look at the read progression on kush.. Fidei86
LightningStrike
The Shining
Rels
Half the Sky
Palmar
So. Nearly all ppl had multiple mentions of kush as useless and/or expressed some degree of willingness to lynch him before the EoD trouble. LightningStrike didn't, but him voting kush was for survival and pretty NAI. For Palmar it is in line with his desire to lynch inactive baddies. Rels and The Shining have the least amount of previous mentions of kush before, but I don't see anything suggesting a scum mindset for the switch either... The kush thing also happend in a few minutes, so I am not sure if the order/timing of votes does have much impact either... Hope I can add some red colour to my next attempt at VCA as this one wasn't significant. TLDR: Let's look at everyone voting kush and their progression on kush. In order, with quotes. Now look at his summaries. Nearly everyone had problems with the kush uselessness, or had willingness to lynch him. Conclusions? LS voting for kush was for survival and NAI. Palmar? It fits with him wanting to lynch inactive baddies. Rels and Shining? Least amounts of previous mentions of kush, but nothing suggesting a scum mindset for the switch. Who did he leave out on his conclusion? Half The Sky, who happened to be a null read before this. There is literally no attempt to figure out the alignment on someone he has as null while doing vote count analysis. Next is a short little interaction between FF and disfo. I went into FF's filter to get the most I could out of it and it reminded me that scumteams have trouble interacting with eachother in-thread. This is also on page 5 of Disfo's filter. + Show Spoiler + Disfo finds it necessary to respond to FF about this being a high effort game, as if he's hyper-aware of FF. But it's not a direct interaction that leads to anything. DYH is suspicious and didn't hesitate to vote with NM. But after rereading DYH's case on HtS it isn't bad. If I ignore HtS sickness, she doesn't look good. It's like he doesn't know whether to vote his scummate HtS or push someone else. So he asks FF if he has a read on DYH. "not yet no" reads like classic scum not wanting/knowing how to interact with other scum. Short, curt, we interacted, move on. Around this time, his nullread/potential scummate HtS is starting to get scummed and pushed hard by DYH and NM. DYH is the lower content, less townread of the 2 so he starts tunneling him. Hard. Even making preflip association between him and HtS. + Show Spoiler + On December 04 2015 10:44 disformation wrote: So for the record: I think DYH is scum. If you are right and HtS is scum, too, then yes he is bussing her. But that is preflip association stuff. He still hasn't moved off of HtS being null and keeps pushing DYH. He tries to get Rels onboard by quoting his earlier case on DYH. Most of his filter page 6 is about DYH. Then there's this: + Show Spoiler + On December 05 2015 01:19 disformation wrote: I don't think this comes from scum!NM And as explained here: I think HtS is null at best. Since NM is starting to gain a bunch of townie brownies and I believe that his read on HtS is godtier, HtS has a pretty high chance of flipping scum. ...shit. Am I tunneled on DYH?  Rels wants him to pick the more likely scum between HtS and NM. Instead of picking one, he says this play can't come from scumNM, then continues to cling onto that nullread of HtS. Next sentence? HtS has a pretty high chance of flipping scum. What?? Then questioning if he's tunneled on DYH. Yes, he is. NM even picks up on this contradiction and Disfo explains it away as the null being his earlier position, and him now warming up to NM's case and an HtS lynch. Page 7 of his filter has a few posts giving more town cred to NM and reasons why. But he never votes HtS. Now we get what is a pretty telling list post to me. + Show Spoiler + On December 05 2015 07:35 disformation wrote: Okay. Heads up: As per my pre game excuse I won't have time to play tomorrow. I am at my parents' in the afternoon and go to a friends' straight from there. Will miss the deadline by an hour or something. I might get a few phone posts in here and there, but don't count on it. Will be here for another like 4 hours, so if you have questions: shoot now before you regret it. So I am currently at: town Palmar Rels The Shining town leans NoctuneMage FF LightningStrike scum Half the Sky DoYouHas wtf bananaboat Trfel Super sleeping on and need to read the filter Fidei86 So some people said that it made sense for him to vote DYH over HtS D2 because he had HtS as null. THIS POST DISPROVES THAT. HE SCUMMED HTS. It's also interesting to note that up to this point, there's been almost NO interaction with FF, but he has him at a townlean. Why is this? Then a little while after: + Show Spoiler + On December 05 2015 08:17 disformation wrote: Hmmm... I think her last post was at start of N1 when kush flipped? So possible. Currently looking at Fidei86's filter. Any questions for me while I am around? Have you looked at DYH, yet? Just like the last time, FF makes a vague post directed at no one in particular, and Disfo feels compelled to answer it. But he still tries to get FF to read DYH. If he really thinks HtS is also scum, why is he so adamant about now-confirmed scum FF reading DYH? He also seems to have just slapped a townread on FF for no apparent reason and is trying to get him to push DYH with him. Another gem on page 7: + Show Spoiler + On December 05 2015 11:26 disformation wrote: In NM's only scum game so far, where he was the godfather and got lynched on D3, he had a 3 page filter. And if HtS flips scum (probably will), I will look at the votes, their timings and the reasons for the vote. Yes, DYH did bring up HtS first. But this was after he had previously found nothing in her filter and MD got replaced by NM. NM also mentioned that HtS is good at coaching. Since DYH case on HtS is of a much higher quality than his previous posts, I could see him being coached on that. So yeah, I think this has a good chance of being a bus. He thinks HtS will probably flip scum, as per this post. And continues to make unflipped association about a bus. As if he knows HtS is going to flip scum. Then there's a post where he hopes we'll get more info from the votes on D2, when everyone but him is voting HtS. I just can't understand why he wouldn't consolidate onto HtS when she was one of his 2 scumreads. Instead, he keeps up his tunnel DYH(He's doing it even now). Since HtS flipped, the next few posts will be his interactions and talk on FF. It's interesting to note his first post on page 8 of his filter, he can now put his bus theory to work because HtS flipped scum. This is a post on page 8 RE: Fecalfeast: + Show Spoiler + On December 07 2015 07:38 disformation wrote: "Unfortunately, this video is not available in your country because it could contain music, for which we could not agree on conditions of use with GEMA." And I was looking forward to some good scum-huntin' music. And yeah I think we still have 3 possible setups? Also no clue bout the patient vigi... if you feel like someone is watching you and taking aim, a few notes would be nice. Another vague FF post aimed at no one. Another response from Disfo. It just feels like he's so hyper aware of every time FF enters the thread, but he's never found a good reason to TR him. The only thing he mentions here is some setup talk. With FF being confirmed scum, this feels like it's just there to WIFOM the thread. And also kind of a plea for FF to put in some effort if he's his scummate. Up to this point in Disfo's filter, he's discussed Trfel, NM, LS, DYH, Fidei multiple times. Palmar, Rels and myself were townreads. The people he's discussed least just so happen to be our 2 confirmed scum, HtS and FF. Next FF interaction, I was going to spoiler but it's not even worth it. FF apologizes for replacing into this game and capcom cup and Disfo says something about needing a 3rd monitor. These interactions are so weird and I don't understand the town motivation behind it. "I'm going to talk to you just to talk to you" is all I can get from it, and that's a mafia trait, not a town trait. Annnndddd I've got a headache from staring at this screen too damn long. I'll finish this a little later or tomorrow, ideally before night phase ends. You can all chew on this and tell me how right/wrong I am in my opinions, but the deeper I get into this, the more I convince myself. Bbs. Reminder to myself: Continue from page 8. ![[image loading]](http://files.gamebanana.com/img/ico/sprays/objection.png) + Show Spoiler + Nah, carry on, I just want to use that since like 3 games, but never found a good situation. | ||
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On December 09 2015 22:32 NocturneMage wrote: do you have any responses to the case? Ninja. Just posted it. =D More seriously: yes, there are a few points I feel are slightly misrepresentative/not true and will address them shortly. | ||
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On December 09 2015 22:37 NocturneMage wrote: Also when you have chance, can you answer post 1949? Where Shining asks what are your next two lynches to win the game? Well. DYH duh. Currently my predictions for the rest of the game are: a) we lynch DYH D4. He flips, red we win. b) we lynch me D4. I flip green. We lynch DYH D5. He flips red, we win. In the off chance that I am wrong on DYH, or we assume a hypothetical situation, where there was no DYH, things get a bit complicated. Trfel looks very good as per the votes from yesterday. You bussing your roleblocker is still a bit too tinfoilly for me. Would also be a sick play, though. The Shining is tunneled town. Still think Rels is town, not 100% here though. So that PoE leaves me with Fidei86 and LS. Fidei86 only started to really try and solve the game, after a few ppl started to get really suspicious of him yesterday. I don't like that LS mostly coasts by off screaming around at EoD and his mighty case, was a 80% rip off of mine. I have to at least sue him for intellectual property theft. :p | ||
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On December 09 2015 23:02 NocturneMage wrote: If you don't think I bussed my roleblocker, why do you think DYH did? Hmm... cause I think DYH has a bunch of things that make him scummy outside the bussing, while I think you are more likely to be town? But fair point, maybe I should look at your filter again. | ||
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On December 09 2015 23:21 NocturneMage wrote: Fair enough Rels. I realise this is a mostly open setup, but I have a ways to go with setup spec/mechanics. HTS tried to explain to me how to balance 13-player games sometime back and I just told her to stop after 5 minutes because my head was spinning. I'm so bad  Anyhow need to afk again, curious to see the full case response disformation. Will take a while. Formatting of The Shinings behemoth is quite nasty, but I am on it. | ||
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The following spoiler contains the whole lot of Onegu's filter. Warning: open on own risk, it is kinda huge and the mass could smother you. I will not be accountable to any injuries. + Show Spoiler + On December 02 2015 00:29 Onegu wrote: Onegu VT claim. Be back later Sooo... If anyone has advise on how to get a read from that, I will gladly listen to that. Otherwise I am really not sure how in the nine hells I am supposed to have a read on him. I hereby boldly proclaim that not having a read on Onegu is probably NAI. On December 09 2015 14:37 The Shining wrote: If HtS is his partner here, here's very aware of her re-reading him. I'm not sure what to make of it but her having to flesh out her Disfo could be a distancing on having to read him one way or the other. I'll have to check her filter to see if she ever got around to it. But look at HtS lynch list. This was early enough that I don't think bussing or soft pushing was plausible. Onegu is "straight policy", not a good lynch becuz that was the FF slot, aka her scum partner. But willing to lynch kush/DYH...kush flipped town. I'm thinking DYH would, too. And the way he's asking her why she wants to re-read him here is weird. It's not like he's trying to figure out her alignment, he's just asking her what she's doing. Remember that when she was lynched, he still had her at null and didn't vote her. No HtS never got to rereading me. Also remember she never pushed DYH D1? Or voted him for what I can remember. Could have easily be a scum lean on a partner to hide the connection. On December 09 2015 14:37 The Shining wrote: This post is interesting because someone, can't remember who, said the whole idea of "fuck this game is hard" is a mafia tactic to discourage and throw town on tilt. Rels mentions Onegu's absence being NAI but disformation neither agrees nor disagrees here. Also, the quote tree is from Rels to Shining, asking me to read DYH's filter. Disformation chose to answer this for himself, for some reason. I am very sure I said something similar to this in some of my town games, but that would be self meta so I'll go with: "okay, if you say so". On December 09 2015 14:37 The Shining wrote: These few reads. He gives NM a D2 pass. But it's his FecalFeast and HtS reads that strike me as weird. He softs on HtS, certain lack of follow ups, hints that she plays a different style as town and that that fire is missing. But he leaves her an opening to follow up on re-reads and throw out reads Also, at first he was a bit worried because FF is super lazy as town but since his Fallout excuse checks out, he's less worried. So how is this worrying? If he's super lazy as town, and he's being lazy as town here(which he wasn't town), how would this make you worry? I just don't understand the statement/thought/read. Note that they never once interacted up to this point, at least in Disformation's filter. Here is the first interaction I found, also on page 5: Of course I do leave her openings, she was sick and not playing much, that is the polite thing to do here. And me worrying about FF is the same thing I wrote about yesterday prior to lunch. On December 09 2015 14:37 The Shining wrote: Disfo asks NM to explain his HtS read and vote before NM posted his case. FF makes that post and Disfo follows FF's train of logic to not entirely trust NM. So both are skeptical and suspicious of NM voting confirmed scum HtS. "Kinda null on HtS" is a weird thing to reiterate, too. And instead of going to check her filter to land on either side of null, or to even check if she's posted a single thing during nightphase, he asks the thread instead. This is a thread temperature check. Well, since HtS wasn't exactly posting much at the time, there was not much new in her filter to find. If you read a filter a few times and can't come up with a conclusion what are you to do? Well this doctor has good advise for me I suppose: ![[image loading]](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ft-LOumBOlA/hqdefault.jpg) On December 09 2015 14:37 The Shining wrote: Another vague FF post aimed at no one. Another response from Disfo. It just feels like he's so hyper aware of every time FF enters the thread, but he's never found a good reason to TR him. The only thing he mentions here is some setup talk. With FF being confirmed scum, this feels like it's just there to WIFOM the thread. And also kind of a plea for FF to put in some effort if he's his scummate. Up to this point in Disfo's filter, he's discussed Trfel, NM, LS, DYH, Fidei multiple times. Palmar, Rels and myself were townreads. The people he's discussed least just so happen to be our 2 confirmed scum, HtS and FF. Next FF interaction, I was going to spoiler but it's not even worth it. FF apologizes for replacing into this game and capcom cup and Disfo says something about needing a 3rd monitor. These interactions are so weird and I don't understand the town motivation behind it. "I'm going to talk to you just to talk to you" is all I can get from it, and that's a mafia trait, not a town trait. Last game I was able to correctly form a town lean/read on FF after having a bit of a conversation with him in thread, so I was hoping for this to happen again, so I tried to engage him everytime he popped up. But you are right, I should have been more hesitant to town lean him off being lazy and be more suspicious since we never managed to have decent conversation. The rest of your case pretty much boils down to me having trouble deciding what to do with HtS D2. Yeah, you are right it looks pretty bad. I guess I had too much trouble evaluating her outside the sickness thing. HtS coached me in my second game here and we get along really well, maybe that affected my ability to really evaluate her this game and made me wish it was only the sickness that affected her play. Another bad mistake I have to learn from I guess. So outside me not voting HtS D2 and generally looking bad on my progression on her D2. I kinda feel you are trying to look at the trees a bit too hard and start to come up with stuff that is kinda NAI or not really hard mafia indicative (like the Onegu thing). I would like you to take a step back and look at my overall play this game. Do you really think I didn't try to solve this game? If the answer is yes: feel free to lynch me, I'll still flip green, though. Other good pointers on how to proceed: Disformation never used images in his previous town games. scum read. Disformation is defending himself too much. scum read. Disformation is not defending himself at all. scum read. | ||
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On December 09 2015 23:51 LightningStrike wrote: I did give you credit for some of your work at least. The suing part was totally a joke. | ||
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english hard language. I'll probably be semi around today, trying to get a bit of stuff done home office style, this game has eaten a fair share of my time and I am a bit behind on a few things. If you have further questions just shoot, cause mafia won't. | ||
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On December 10 2015 00:28 Rels wrote: Can you read FF's filter and: - see if it matches with your read on DYH ? - who is the most likely partner based on his filter (or 2nd most likely if your 1st is DYH) ? Hmm... not sure what you mean with the bold part. Like, see if my points on FF might match my points on DYH? | ||
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On December 10 2015 00:31 disformation wrote: Hmm... not sure what you mean with the bold part. Like, see if my points on FF might match my points on DYH? Aka are the same? So that I just could take my case on DYH and replace all instances of DYH with FF and it would basically the same case? | ||
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On December 10 2015 00:34 Rels wrote: OK like that it might be better: Reading FF's filter, who is his most likely partner and why ? Is DYH a likely partner ? Okay, thanks. Sounds like a good idea. | ||
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On December 10 2015 02:27 Trfel wrote: I think that it's extremely suspicious that he basically says "I think that some points were misrepresented or overblown", indicating that he thinks that the rest of the points are fine. This really doesn't feel like something that town would say. To say much more than that, I'd need to actually read the thread and filters to see context, which I'm not going to do because we win anyway What can I say. My D2 this game was pretty poorly with the HtS stuff. Last game my D1/N1 were poor. My goal is to really sandbag hard next games D3, so this can become a thing. | ||
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