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[T][M] Resistance V - Section 31 - Page 33

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 05:20 GMT
#641
On November 03 2015 01:01 Rels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2015 23:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hey Rels why do you actually think i am town?

I'm not sure you are. You're attacking people over small logical things and you are thinking about the game as a whole; that is town indicative, but I know you can replicate that as town; at least that what you and several other people claimed before.

So why did you actually change my read in the first place?
That is what i have been doing all game long, playing to my town meta.

Why did you go from sure scum to sure town? And now not so sure town?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 05:22 GMT
#642
On November 03 2015 01:43 Rels wrote:
Alright leaving work.
HTS, I won't vote a team you or Superbia are part of atm. Obviously that could change between now or deadline. I'm OK with Xata / kita / rayn / me.

And awhile ago you were more confident with HtS/Xatalos/Rels team succeeding a mission than rayn in it.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 05:24 GMT
#643
yeah Rels is scum.
So is ShoCkeyy.

Well this is going to be easy. I am basically okay with any team that does not include either of Rels/ShoCkeyy.
If the team fails pick the rest 4 people. I am almost certain we win the game there.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 05:36 GMT
#644
Nevermind the last two posts of mine. I misread something from my memory.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 05:37 GMT
#645
Rels why do you want to put kitaman into the team over me?
Do you understand the fact that if he is scum calling Superbia scum at the time he did is the only possible play he can make in case HtS is town.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 05:37 GMT
#646
if = when
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 05:39 GMT
#647
ehh... and Xatalos too.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 06:10 GMT
#648
kitaman here is my problem with you atm. You don't actually have a stance on anything until it becomes / when it is "relevant". In hindsight that looks "good" since you are discussing important topics in the game. But if you are scum you only need to include yourself into the team and you can easily call the other two people town and "look good", and when there is an all town team you only have to cast doubt on one player and again -- you can easily call the other two people town.

So here is what i see has happened:
- HtS nominates herself/rayn/Superbia
- you become anti-super, as you yourself put it
- HtS wants to swap Superbia to Xatalos
- you become "anti-Xatalos", and not only that, you even say "maybe i judged Superbia too harsly early on"......

The problem here is that it seems almost too convenient, the topics you discuss. You never really discuss HtS (which is understandable as she is the leader -- and you want yourself into the team). You never really discuss me, just call me town (which makes sense since you couldn't call me scum anyways if you're scum).

So basically, if you are scum here, you take the only possible route you can -- or rather, the route that gives you the best chance of getting scum into the team (if we assume HtS is town here -- and i find it almost impossible you two are scum together). Not only that, you don't actually have any reads, which is kinda funny since you call Xatalos out for that exact reason (when Xatalos actually DOES have reads -- you don't). You have called me town, i assume you think HtS is town, and Superbia and Xatalos are "not trustworthy enough". Isn't it a bit hypocritical to entertain a scenario where Xatalos is not town - or cast doubt on him - for "not giving reads" when you yourself haven't really given any reads?

This is exactly what i was talking about and this is basically how i usually find scum in Resistance (players who are good). People who don't talk about the game as whole, and only focus on "important" parts on the game -- the team in question. It's really easy to "look townie" if you only have to "prove" you are town, and two townies are town, rofl.

There is also this problem where if all the townies play like this the town will never get a team through. Three townies are not going on the first mission anyways, and what i see here is the characteristics of "i am a better pick than this guy, but i don't really even call him scum, nevertheless this team is not good". So, here is what i want from you;

Detailed reads on everyone, thanks.
Let's see where you stand for real.
table for two on a tv tray
Artanis[Xp]
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
Netherlands12968 Posts
November 03 2015 07:13 GMT
#649
On November 03 2015 07:50 Half the Sky wrote:
One more question for you Artanis.

You initially had me as a town lean with my first wave of proposals.

Why is the fear read coming up only now?

A decent part of it is the fact that I had two scumreads then and not quite as many townreads. Also the weak suspicion on me is eh when you know I don't have much time at the moment. (honestly I probably shouldn't have signed up for the game to begin with >>)

Rayn, why is Rels scum? Also, do you have a read on me yet?
Artanis[Xp]
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
Netherlands12968 Posts
November 03 2015 07:41 GMT
#650
Oh also I think it's very unlikely Shockey and Rels are scum together with the exchange they had earlier.
Rels
Profile Joined August 2008
France13467 Posts
November 03 2015 08:45 GMT
#651
On November 03 2015 14:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2015 01:01 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 23:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hey Rels why do you actually think i am town?

I'm not sure you are. You're attacking people over small logical things and you are thinking about the game as a whole; that is town indicative, but I know you can replicate that as town; at least that what you and several other people claimed before.

So why did you actually change my read in the first place?
That is what i have been doing all game long, playing to my town meta.

Why did you go from sure scum to sure town? And now not so sure town?

I'm pretty sure it's clear from my filter. If it's not, then it's not.
Rels
Profile Joined August 2008
France13467 Posts
November 03 2015 08:46 GMT
#652
On November 03 2015 14:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Rels why do you want to put kitaman into the team over me?
Do you understand the fact that if he is scum calling Superbia scum at the time he did is the only possible play he can make in case HtS is town.

Well, if Superbia is scum it's also the right call ... why are you still townreading him ? The guy has been bathing for 10 hours.
sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
November 03 2015 08:48 GMT
#653
Well I scimmed it so far and pretty much have zero original thoughts on anything.

One thought I do have tho is that since theres no point of playing for survival scums only job is to lead the thread and look townie.

I think in this kind of setup the lurkers are more likely to be town.

I think what im trying to say is my case for being town is that I dont give a shit
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 08:50 GMT
#654
On November 03 2015 16:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2015 07:50 Half the Sky wrote:
One more question for you Artanis.

You initially had me as a town lean with my first wave of proposals.

Why is the fear read coming up only now?

A decent part of it is the fact that I had two scumreads then and not quite as many townreads. Also the weak suspicion on me is eh when you know I don't have much time at the moment. (honestly I probably shouldn't have signed up for the game to begin with >>)

Rayn, why is Rels scum? Also, do you have a read on me yet?

I am not sure if he is scum. But he doesn't look too good atm. It basically has to do with his original read on me. I just can't let go of "here is my meta-read on you, i don't even know what i am talking about". Then he back off and says "i have already accepted you are town", but apparently i wasn't town after all (as he says now). I have really hard time figuring out WHAT his read on me is and WHY.

I have a slight town-lean on you, although i would like to know why do you think kitaman is town. I don't really see anything townie in his play -- in fact i am much more inclined to think it comes from scum.

On November 03 2015 16:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Oh also I think it's very unlikely Shockey and Rels are scum together with the exchange they had earlier.

c'mon, you know how this game works. It's not.
table for two on a tv tray
sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
November 03 2015 08:50 GMT
#655
like im not even gonna read the last 10 -15 pages fully i skiped them tbh. screw that shit im starting a new game
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
November 03 2015 08:51 GMT
#656
On November 03 2015 17:45 Rels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2015 14:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 01:01 Rels wrote:
On November 02 2015 23:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hey Rels why do you actually think i am town?

I'm not sure you are. You're attacking people over small logical things and you are thinking about the game as a whole; that is town indicative, but I know you can replicate that as town; at least that what you and several other people claimed before.

So why did you actually change my read in the first place?
That is what i have been doing all game long, playing to my town meta.

Why did you go from sure scum to sure town? And now not so sure town?

I'm pretty sure it's clear from my filter. If it's not, then it's not.

yeah it is not.
table for two on a tv tray
Rels
Profile Joined August 2008
France13467 Posts
November 03 2015 08:54 GMT
#657
@HTS
On November 03 2015 06:13 Rels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2015 02:43 Half the Sky wrote:
Here again.

Read Xata. Could swap Superbia out for him. I'll sit on this.

Current: raynpelikoneet/Superbia/myself

1st alt: Xata/rayn/myself
2nd alt: TBD

Going through Rels again, then Kita/Artanis/Shockey.

Show nested quote +
On November 03 2015 03:02 Half the Sky wrote:
Read through Kita's filter again. Most of his questions were answered or appeared so. So many questions, so few conclusions. Where do you stand on everyone now?

And my proposed lineups?

So you went though my posts and didn't feel the need to post anything ?

On November 03 2015 01:33 Rels wrote:
OK. What do you think of Superbia's TMI accusation ? [Added just now: you said multiple times you would review it, and either you didn't or I missed it.]


@Shockey
On November 03 2015 06:54 Rels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2015 06:44 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On November 03 2015 06:38 Rels wrote:
On November 03 2015 06:32 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On November 03 2015 06:23 Rels wrote:
On November 03 2015 04:50 kitaman27 wrote:
I don't think I'm comfortable with Xatalos just yet.

Here is his read list from what I gathered. Basically all town and null reads.

Xatalos - Obviously town reads himself

Half the Sky - Strong town read

On November 03 2015 01:13 Xatalos wrote:
Well, she's clearly reading the thread and making original findings. Such as the way I inquired Superbia about his townread on me, or how you were making filler posts here and there.... She's also coming to pretty good conclusions from those findings. Hard to ask for more at this point.


raynpelikoneet - Strong town read

On November 03 2015 01:01 Xatalos wrote:
rayn has been very focused on finding townreads, something I think fits better with his town meta and is perhaps more useful in this game than finding a scum.


Superbia - Town read, though a tier below the previous ones. Questions the initial push, but seems content with him for the most part.

On November 03 2015 00:54 Xatalos wrote:
Hm..... I think HtS/rayn/Superbia has a decent chance of being Spy-free. It would be worth considering at least.


On November 03 2015 01:31 Xatalos wrote:
Well, I don't think Superbia's later posts were bad either. He somewhat decently explained his reason for the initial scumread on me and then townread me for a good reason too


Rels - Null, though this sounds more like townie null

On November 03 2015 00:05 Xatalos wrote:
Hm.. I'd maybe put Rels into the null pile. I think his explanations somewhat made sense, and he's actively doing stuff (even if he can be active as scum, it's still easier to be a little less active than that as scum). Otherwise it seemed generally okay.


Artanis[Xp] - Null/No shared opinion?
ShoCkeyy - Null/No shared opinion?

sicklucker - Null

kitaman27 - Scum read for lack of interaction at start of the game. Hasn't elaborated much about me since then.

From his position knowing that there are three anti-town players, it seems like he isn't really suspicious of anyone aside from me, especially considering that he has so many posts already. I know that I'm probably biased considering that I'm the only one he seems to think is a spy, but that doesn't seem very satisfactory to me. He seems quite content with the status quo.

On November 02 2015 23:52 Xatalos wrote:
Well, tbh I might take rayn and Superbia with me as well right now. Not because they're super town, but because there aren't that many good options. I hope that situation fixes itself.


I know from my perspective, I wouldn't be so willing to pass along the nominations if I don't have a great idea of where the bad guys might be. Right now it seems more like a process of elimination based on the lack of posts from the null players. Considering we can have several more cycles to get that part sorted out, I'm concerned about his willingness to rush things along so long as he is included in the nomination.

I still don't think I've spotted an alternative to super/xat that I'd be satisfied with yet though. It seems that I have the opposite problem than xat. Most people are coming off as untrustworthy/null, rather than the other way around

Pretty cool find! Xatalos definitely looked for scumreads in the vanilla game.


I just find it weird that when I throw suspicion on rayn to try and get him to engage with me over rels and Xatalos was the one to come in and tell me that my thought on rayn could be wrong [http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497443-resistance-v-section-31?page=20#383]. Rayn still hadn't engage with me until I specifically quoted him and asked him why [http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497443-resistance-v-section-31?page=20#396].

This is one of the main factors why I don't like the rayn/xata combo wombo, it looks similar to the way they both engaged with Rels.

I'm pretty sure HTS was the first one to discard your angry meta stuff.
On November 02 2015 23:20 Half the Sky wrote:
On November 02 2015 23:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I haven't finished reading the thread, but since I did play with rayn last game where he was mafia and this really brings up his current meta:

On November 02 2015 19:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay i gotta get off for some time. I am starting to get angry at this.


He seriously starts to get "angry" when things do not go his way.

On November 02 2015 19:15 Rels wrote:
rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.


This is also my best suggestion as well.


I know I said elsewhere, but rayn has done this as town (reference Drams and a host of other games lol), if rayn is indeed a spy, it's not for this. I did list my reasons for thinking rayn as town, if you dispute those, do let me know.

Also I'm not sure you can reasonably meta rayn from one game (Himalayas if I recall right?) but your doing so is NAI.


You obviously don't realize I'm not talking about the angry meta stuff anymore.

No I didn't. Let me quote the posts you're talking about.
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2015 23:31 Xatalos wrote:
On November 02 2015 23:23 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On November 02 2015 23:18 Xatalos wrote:
On November 02 2015 23:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I haven't finished reading the thread, but since I did play with rayn last game where he was mafia and this really brings up his current meta:

On November 02 2015 19:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay i gotta get off for some time. I am starting to get angry at this.


He seriously starts to get "angry" when things do not go his way.

On November 02 2015 19:15 Rels wrote:
rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.


This is also my best suggestion as well.


Which game are you referring to?

I think he can get plenty angry as town too lol


He can get angry as town too, haven't never seen him play as town. I'm just basing it off my previous game with him, which is why I rather not have him on the first mission.

Here is the page where he gets angry because he messed up and/or things just didn't go his way. (Super mini mafia, you can read through it fairly quickly).
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497064-star-fox-64-mini-mafia?page=5


Well, he did get pretty angry as town in the Vanilla game... The one that just ended.

Tbh I think it's not alignment-indicative for him.

Show nested quote +
On November 02 2015 23:53 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On November 02 2015 23:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 02 2015 23:46 kitaman27 wrote:
On November 02 2015 18:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:
kitaman because he is talking about setup which is a big no-no in this game unless you are scum and want to give advice to your teammates, like "this is something i would not recommend to do".


Well the goal was indeed to give advice for my teammates. You don't need to automatically conclude that the advice was spy motivated. 36% success to 18% success is a significant drop off.

The problem is that is actually bad advice.


How is that bad advice?...

So you're saying rayn didn't defend himself from your read, and didn't even talk to you until you quoted a post of him. But Xatalos did the defending for him.
How is rayn not talking to you scum indicative ?
I understand how Xata jumping to defend rayn could be scum indicative. But if you think that, what do you think of HTS also defending him in that situation ?
Lastly, I don't agree with him saying town should elect themselves in a team where they are leader.


@rayn
On November 03 2015 01:23 Rels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2015 00:18 Xatalos wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:15 kitaman27 wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:12 Xatalos wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:07 Xatalos wrote:
On November 03 2015 00:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Did anyone actually look at the game and why i got mad there?


Yeah you messed up the vote timing I think? Well, you basically lost because of it, so I can understand getting angry in that situation.

yep, completely the same thing than getting mad at someone's terrible argument, right?


Haha... Btw is there some real difference in rayn's ragefests between alignments? Maybe he gets angry a bit easier as town? I don't think he even got really MAD in the VS game, compared to the Vanilla game.

Probably not. I don't actually fake emotion as mafia.


Do you find Rels would be so antagonistic against you, the person pushing discussion in the thread, on day one as spy? Making firm conclusions like "rayn leaving the thread as soon as he's being pushed is scum indicative. Please don't include him in a team.".

Definitely could be the case given how the last game with Xatalos went.


You mean he could be trying to make you ragequit or something?

I thought this would have get answered later, apparently not; rayn I would love an answer to that.


@Anyone I would love to have your take on this Xatalos' post
On November 03 2015 06:31 Rels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2015 05:15 Xatalos wrote:
Well kita, you even quoted the reason for my focus... That finding town in this game might be more useful than finding scum. Of course figuring out the Spies is always useful, but it'll get easier with vote analysis and mission results, whereas here the main goal is to figure out who to send on a mission. At least in IRL Resistance we mostly focused on establishing "clear" or at least semi-clear town.

I read this post maybe 10 times and I have no idea if it makes sense from a town perspective. It kinda does, but finding town goes in hand with finding scums. Don't know why someone would do almost exclusively one and not the other before the first mission.

sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
November 03 2015 08:56 GMT
#658
I can hear everyone scringing that sicklucker is pulling the wifmo card. even tho I only ever do it when im town because thats the only time I can evelaute myself
sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
November 03 2015 08:57 GMT
#659
Can someone explain to me what this means?

The leader nomination order is:

1. Half the Sky
2. Xatalos
3. Artanis[Xp]
4. raynpelikoneet
5. ShoCkeyy
6. Rels
7. sicklucker
8. kitaman27
9. Superbia
sicklucker
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada16987 Posts
November 03 2015 08:58 GMT
#660
So hts nominated a team or something? now we vote it or is it set for sure?

obv my first game but I thought we voted for who chose the team
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