EPTOn October 24 2015 03:09 Blazinghand wrote:
So Slam, if I catch your dirft correctly here, your scumread on rayn goes like this: rayn has been changing his mind a lot, and you expect him to be more tunnelly as town. (This is effectively what Xat said; the xat posts that chrom has posted are mostly not painting xat in a positive light, or presenting the rayn case; so it's hard to see what you're getting at there). Is that all there is to you rayn case, or is there more to it?
You don't like rayn's vote on GB. Why?
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 16:36 Alakaslam wrote:
Xata openly did as I am doing.
Rayn is scum.
On October 23 2015 11:21 Chromatically wrote:
I really really do not like this Xatalos read on rayn. Look at this:
It's like Xatalos really really wants to call rayn mafia but never actually does. He's just kind of throwing suspicion out there about "an uncomfortable feeling". And then he asks people if rayn has been "shifty"? Like he's looking for approval from other people before he actually calls rayn mafia. Xatalos does end up voting rayn, but never confidently says that he's mafia or even probable mafia. Just non-committal "he just may be scum" and "uncomfortable feelings".
What Xatalos calls "shifty" and "unexplained read changes" really is just that rayn flipped his read on ritoky (and maybe his Hopeless read?). Why doesn't he just say that then? Why ask "has town rayn been shifty?" when you could ask "does town rayn flip reads?" The first one paints rayn in a much worse light, but the second one is much clearer and more accurate to what's going on.
In addition, I honestly don't see how flipping a read is even a scum trait. Mafia don't do 180s on their reads for no reason, but town will totally 180 on reads if they reevaluate and think that they used to be wrong. As scum it's so so easy to just stick to your reads no matter what and not have to deal with the suspicion of switching them. It's possible that a townie just disagrees with me on this, but I don't think it's at all accurate to categorize it as "searching for an angle of attack". And I don't think it's at all a reasonable reason for a vote.
These just gave me a really bad feeling. It felt like he's trying to throw suspicion onto rayn without actually attacking him.
I mentioned that I was probably going to flip my read on Xatalos, so here it is. For some reason I didn't pick up on any of this the first few times around, but it started to jump out to me.
I completely agree with what gumshoe said about Xatalos' reads being very waffly:
+ Show Spoiler +
He consistently keeps his options open. Really, go read his filter and count how many strong reads you see. He has one strong read on Vivax that he posts and that's honestly it (apart from his town feel on BH). Look at how much he says "maybe this" and things like that.
Like what is this? yamato is "disturbing" and he MIGHT move his vote there? It's very non-committal.
If you don't read anything else, look at this post and keep reading from there. He says the exact same waffle about me and yamato THREE TIMES IN A ROW. This doesn't make any sense from a town perspective, but it does make sense from the perspective of a mafia who's trying to be active and show that they're "thinking about the game".
I also didn't like Xatalos' opening posts after reading them again. He starts by asking Vivax where to find a comic, and then spends a few posts talking about randomness and the Random class? Mafia often have a hard time entering the thread, and talking about irrelevant stuff like that is an easy way to do it. He posts a lot and appears active, but very few of the posts contain content. Some examples:
(This one appears relevant but actually says nothing about yamato, more waffle).
Also his townread on BH doesn't make much sense like rayn has already said. Maybe he's just town and made a bad read (imo) on non-alignment indicative stuff, but I think there's a reasonable chance that as mafia Xatalos just threw out a townread without thinking about the logical town reasoning for it.
I really really do not like this Xatalos read on rayn. Look at this:
On October 23 2015 06:54 Xatalos wrote:
Meh... maybe rayn could be scum after all? He seems a bit too similar to his last scumgame on VS. There his reads were mostly unexplained and the read progressions were rather hard to understand. He also was quite nitpicky / aggressive towards things that weren't necessarily scummy at all. It's an uncomfortable feeling I got from the last pages.
Meh... maybe rayn could be scum after all? He seems a bit too similar to his last scumgame on VS. There his reads were mostly unexplained and the read progressions were rather hard to understand. He also was quite nitpicky / aggressive towards things that weren't necessarily scummy at all. It's an uncomfortable feeling I got from the last pages.
On October 23 2015 07:08 Xatalos wrote:
Hm. I mean... town rayn can be aggressive, but it's usually more focused on specifically scummy things and quite "tunnely". Like a bull seeing red and then attacking until it's dead. From my last scum experience with rayn, he shifted his stances a lot, in weird and unexplained ways. It was more like searching for an angle of attack rather than attacking something suspicious. I get an eerily similar feeling from him this game :/
Hm. I mean... town rayn can be aggressive, but it's usually more focused on specifically scummy things and quite "tunnely". Like a bull seeing red and then attacking until it's dead. From my last scum experience with rayn, he shifted his stances a lot, in weird and unexplained ways. It was more like searching for an angle of attack rather than attacking something suspicious. I get an eerily similar feeling from him this game :/
On October 23 2015 07:12 Xatalos wrote:
Has anyone played with town rayn in like the last months? Has he become this... "shifty", hard to grasp as town too?
Has anyone played with town rayn in like the last months? Has he become this... "shifty", hard to grasp as town too?
On October 23 2015 07:24 Xatalos wrote:
Well it's quite possible he may just be scum this game. In fact I'm leaning in that direction right now. He can be great as town.
On October 23 2015 07:21 ritoky wrote:
y'know, gonna be honest here. you're the most underwhelming player that people tell me is good on these forums. i just don't see it; maybe i am the one who is so bad i can't comprehend your greatness; but i don't think that's the case.
On October 23 2015 07:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
no
On October 23 2015 07:17 ritoky wrote:
respond.
On October 23 2015 07:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:
yeah that was yesterday.
On October 23 2015 07:13 marvellosity wrote:
i thought you told me ritoky was town?
On October 23 2015 05:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
okay after poe i am lynching into:
Blazinghand
Xatalos
Onegu
Alakaslam
ritoky
i am pretty sure we have three mafia there.
okay after poe i am lynching into:
Blazinghand
Xatalos
Onegu
Alakaslam
ritoky
i am pretty sure we have three mafia there.
i thought you told me ritoky was town?
yeah that was yesterday.
On October 23 2015 06:53 ritoky wrote:
nice one bro.
On October 22 2015 12:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:
i think ritoky is town tbh
i think ritoky is town tbh
On October 23 2015 05:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
okay after poe i am lynching into:
Blazinghand
Xatalos
Onegu
Alakaslam
ritoky
i am pretty sure we have three mafia there.
okay after poe i am lynching into:
Blazinghand
Xatalos
Onegu
Alakaslam
ritoky
i am pretty sure we have three mafia there.
On October 23 2015 05:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't understand the reads on ritoky. He literally said:
"BH is town until he does something egregious enough to be considered not town."
"generally speaking he doesn't rng as mafia, but i wouldn't put it past him to break meta."
So what? He townreads Blazinghand for something he then says, in the next post, is not a reason to townread Blazinghand`!!?
I don't understand the reads on ritoky. He literally said:
"BH is town until he does something egregious enough to be considered not town."
"generally speaking he doesn't rng as mafia, but i wouldn't put it past him to break meta."
So what? He townreads Blazinghand for something he then says, in the next post, is not a reason to townread Blazinghand`!!?
On October 23 2015 05:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:
ritoky is a really had to read for me and i don't think he has said much of anything that could be in my opinion considered townie.
Maybe it's jsut like you say and other people do not know you as well as i do (and what you can / cannot do as mafia), but still... it's really hard for me to believe both of Xatalos and ritoky actually believe you are town for your actions regarding the rng lynch. I just don't fucking buy it.
On October 23 2015 05:39 Blazinghand wrote:
[quote]
well, not towards me. You're actually being a little more gentle with me, compared to normal. Normally I'd expect you to end up TRing ritoky for that on your own. Maybe it's been some time since we played together, or my edge is getting dull, but I recall you being pretty good at noticing people's motivations.
[quote]
well, not towards me. You're actually being a little more gentle with me, compared to normal. Normally I'd expect you to end up TRing ritoky for that on your own. Maybe it's been some time since we played together, or my edge is getting dull, but I recall you being pretty good at noticing people's motivations.
ritoky is a really had to read for me and i don't think he has said much of anything that could be in my opinion considered townie.
Maybe it's jsut like you say and other people do not know you as well as i do (and what you can / cannot do as mafia), but still... it's really hard for me to believe both of Xatalos and ritoky actually believe you are town for your actions regarding the rng lynch. I just don't fucking buy it.
nice one bro.
respond.
no
y'know, gonna be honest here. you're the most underwhelming player that people tell me is good on these forums. i just don't see it; maybe i am the one who is so bad i can't comprehend your greatness; but i don't think that's the case.
Well it's quite possible he may just be scum this game. In fact I'm leaning in that direction right now. He can be great as town.
It's like Xatalos really really wants to call rayn mafia but never actually does. He's just kind of throwing suspicion out there about "an uncomfortable feeling". And then he asks people if rayn has been "shifty"? Like he's looking for approval from other people before he actually calls rayn mafia. Xatalos does end up voting rayn, but never confidently says that he's mafia or even probable mafia. Just non-committal "he just may be scum" and "uncomfortable feelings".
What Xatalos calls "shifty" and "unexplained read changes" really is just that rayn flipped his read on ritoky (and maybe his Hopeless read?). Why doesn't he just say that then? Why ask "has town rayn been shifty?" when you could ask "does town rayn flip reads?" The first one paints rayn in a much worse light, but the second one is much clearer and more accurate to what's going on.
In addition, I honestly don't see how flipping a read is even a scum trait. Mafia don't do 180s on their reads for no reason, but town will totally 180 on reads if they reevaluate and think that they used to be wrong. As scum it's so so easy to just stick to your reads no matter what and not have to deal with the suspicion of switching them. It's possible that a townie just disagrees with me on this, but I don't think it's at all accurate to categorize it as "searching for an angle of attack". And I don't think it's at all a reasonable reason for a vote.
These just gave me a really bad feeling. It felt like he's trying to throw suspicion onto rayn without actually attacking him.
I mentioned that I was probably going to flip my read on Xatalos, so here it is. For some reason I didn't pick up on any of this the first few times around, but it started to jump out to me.
I completely agree with what gumshoe said about Xatalos' reads being very waffly:
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 22 2015 09:43 gumshoe wrote:
...
while your here what do you think of xatalos? Personally I feel as if he dedicates alot of talk to the rng thing without actually looking into what it meant about Bh. Burning filter basically. I also get the feeling that hes using my lurky history as a way to waffle on me, thereby positioning himself to go ether way depending on town.
He eventually seems to settle on me bieng town, but by then I think the general sentiment was favoring me? if that makes sense / : he just seems very wishy washy, which we all are somewhat at the start of course, but his posting comes off as very repetitive and pointless. He talks about the rng vote, but doesn't infer any reads from it, he jokes alot about the rain vote but again doesn't derive anything from it. Hes just commenting on stuff that means nothing, and cautiously testing the waters with his uncertain reads.
would also explain his weird early interaction with chrom, someone hes kinda pushing but not really.
I'm open to bieng wrong this game, Xata may very well just be perplexed by my bieng really active, but for now I'm reading him as red / :
I go bed now. good night : D
...
while your here what do you think of xatalos? Personally I feel as if he dedicates alot of talk to the rng thing without actually looking into what it meant about Bh. Burning filter basically. I also get the feeling that hes using my lurky history as a way to waffle on me, thereby positioning himself to go ether way depending on town.
Show nested quote +
Dunno. I really don't know how gumshoe should be read. You know? I remember him being a really inactive/bad town once and he was basically policy lynched. Then he was extremely similar as scum and managed to survive like that (I even defended him because of him being similar as town earlier lol). Here he's surprisingly actually posting stuff... Or has he started generally posting lately?
Show nested quote +
Well so far Blazinghand and Vivax feel town. ritoky too? Not as sure about Chromatically yet. yamato and gumshoe are in the gray area.
Of course, rayn = scum.
Of course, rayn = scum.
Show nested quote +
Hm so you think gumshoe is lightly town? I guess his attempt at playing so far has been decent compared to my past experiences with him......
Show nested quote +
Tbh I think any of yamato/gumshoe/Chromatically could be scum atm. None of them feel strongly that way though.
Show nested quote +
And how would you characterize his meta? My experience has been basically "scummy lurker as either alignment".
Would also like to know why you put ritoky as town as especially marv.
Would also like to know why you put ritoky as town as especially marv.
He eventually seems to settle on me bieng town, but by then I think the general sentiment was favoring me? if that makes sense / : he just seems very wishy washy, which we all are somewhat at the start of course, but his posting comes off as very repetitive and pointless. He talks about the rng vote, but doesn't infer any reads from it, he jokes alot about the rain vote but again doesn't derive anything from it. Hes just commenting on stuff that means nothing, and cautiously testing the waters with his uncertain reads.
would also explain his weird early interaction with chrom, someone hes kinda pushing but not really.
I'm open to bieng wrong this game, Xata may very well just be perplexed by my bieng really active, but for now I'm reading him as red / :
I go bed now. good night : D
He consistently keeps his options open. Really, go read his filter and count how many strong reads you see. He has one strong read on Vivax that he posts and that's honestly it (apart from his town feel on BH). Look at how much he says "maybe this" and things like that.
On October 22 2015 07:34 Xatalos wrote:
Well I think yamato is probably the most disturbing one of those who have already posted. It's basically nothing but empty complaining. My vote might go to him soon... Though I kind of don't want to abandon the rayn train.
Well I think yamato is probably the most disturbing one of those who have already posted. It's basically nothing but empty complaining. My vote might go to him soon... Though I kind of don't want to abandon the rayn train.
Like what is this? yamato is "disturbing" and he MIGHT move his vote there? It's very non-committal.
If you don't read anything else, look at this post and keep reading from there. He says the exact same waffle about me and yamato THREE TIMES IN A ROW. This doesn't make any sense from a town perspective, but it does make sense from the perspective of a mafia who's trying to be active and show that they're "thinking about the game".
I also didn't like Xatalos' opening posts after reading them again. He starts by asking Vivax where to find a comic, and then spends a few posts talking about randomness and the Random class? Mafia often have a hard time entering the thread, and talking about irrelevant stuff like that is an easy way to do it. He posts a lot and appears active, but very few of the posts contain content. Some examples:
On October 22 2015 06:38 Xatalos wrote:
Why does marv being in the scumteam make it weak? :D
Anyways I was under the impression that TL towns have mostly beaten RNG in recent years.
Why does marv being in the scumteam make it weak? :D
Anyways I was under the impression that TL towns have mostly beaten RNG in recent years.
On October 22 2015 06:32 Xatalos wrote:
Oh well, Java's Random uses the system clock as well, so it's a bit similar, although "more" random.
Oh well, Java's Random uses the system clock as well, so it's a bit similar, although "more" random.
On October 22 2015 06:35 Xatalos wrote:
Unbeatable logic.
I think I've seen him be pretty inactive/useless as scum all around, and mostly OK as town. I think there was one(?) game where he was inactive/useless as town too though.
On October 22 2015 06:30 Vivax wrote:
We might already have caught mafia here since yammo doesn't reply in response to my phantastic intimidating presence.
When he's afk he's mafia.
We might already have caught mafia here since yammo doesn't reply in response to my phantastic intimidating presence.
When he's afk he's mafia.
Unbeatable logic.
I think I've seen him be pretty inactive/useless as scum all around, and mostly OK as town. I think there was one(?) game where he was inactive/useless as town too though.
(This one appears relevant but actually says nothing about yamato, more waffle).
Also his townread on BH doesn't make much sense like rayn has already said. Maybe he's just town and made a bad read (imo) on non-alignment indicative stuff, but I think there's a reasonable chance that as mafia Xatalos just threw out a townread without thinking about the logical town reasoning for it.
Xata openly did as I am doing.
Rayn is scum.
So Slam, if I catch your dirft correctly here, your scumread on rayn goes like this: rayn has been changing his mind a lot, and you expect him to be more tunnelly as town. (This is effectively what Xat said; the xat posts that chrom has posted are mostly not painting xat in a positive light, or presenting the rayn case; so it's hard to see what you're getting at there). Is that all there is to you rayn case, or is there more to it?
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 16:39 Alakaslam wrote:
And the moment I catch up with myself is this buttshite
Very Svengali fail
On October 23 2015 15:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##unvote
##vote GlowingBear
##unvote
##vote GlowingBear
And the moment I catch up with myself is this buttshite
Very Svengali fail
You don't like rayn's vote on GB. Why?
No. He always changes his mind.
Here he does it with no reason or little reason. And it is usually omgus. And it is always angry.
As town, he is usually angry and rarely does omgus, and sometimes admits to some confusion.
But whatever. A town that won't work when I am working is doomed. Apologies.
There is literally no defense at this point if you still think I am scum.
Marv... You suck
How? By letting your pride be your downfall. I actually think you are doing this as town now.
Also, Blazinghand: I am your foil. Think about it.
