EPT[M][N] Completely Normal Generic Mini Mafia
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Cephiro
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(I wish the latter.) | ||
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Brilliant scumhunting Koshi, I'd applaud you for that one if my other hand wasn't occupied by being in my face right now. | ||
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So far all you have is "Cephiro is mafia, thus it will be easy to convince everyone to vote for him." Convincing as fuck, would vote myself if it was allowed. Is there a reason you're avoiding answering my question, or are you too bad to make something up that quickly?  | ||
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Cephiro
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So I just have to name a random person mafia with no reasoning, and everyone will happily sheep me without giving a fuck? I didn't sign up for that kind of shit  But I'm willing to give you the benefit of doubt that you're just messing around earlygame and being stupid. | ||
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On September 15 2015 07:13 ritoky wrote: @cephiro, if you had to work in the military or the theater, which would you work at? @Military, because I'm a reserve officer. | ||
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Cephiro
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On September 15 2015 07:15 ritoky wrote: then why so melodramatic instead of proportional response? I haven't followed the mafia of this forum in about two years or so, and I didn't particularly care about doing my research on "how does a normal TL mafia day 1 look like recently". I play like I want to play, if someone wants to peg me as mafia or town because of being serious or not, that's up to them. I figure I'll be participating enough for people that bother to play the game properly to be able to correctly read me as town with my input, rather than wasting their time on guessing based on their own conclusions which are likely to be extremely off. What I mean by this is that it's stupid to assume someone's emotional state (especially someone you have no idea of, or at least someone you haven't seen any play from in over 2 years) based on a few posts earlygame, and then make a read on that. You can get a feel for what you think of that persons alignment, sure. But anything concrete? Highly unlikely. If I seem too serious by TL standard then so be it, you'll have to adapt your reads accordingly. But maybe you shouldn't compare someone who has no idea of what is "TL standard" at the moment, nor any interest in trying to fit the "TL standard", to the TL standard. I'm me, I play like I play. If you should compare my play to anything, it should be compared against the content I end up producing in this game. (I'm quite confident in saying if you try to read 2+ year old games to try and get a "meta" on me, you're just going to waste your time. Feel free to, if you think otherwise however.) Short ver: I play like I want to play, I have no need to "fit a mold". If someone thinks I'm scummy because of that, that's their loss. If someone wants to paint me as scummy because of that, good luck pushing your bad agenda. | ||
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Cephiro
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I don't mind you sharing your reads at all, that's rarely a bad thing. But we're in a point of the game where you hardly have any proper information to correctly peg someone with. And thus far you're just posting every few minutes saying who you're learning town/scum on, at a point where it's extremely unlikely you even have a proper opinion of stuff yourself. As in, don't you think you could be contributing more by asking questions or creating content in other ways, rather than just constantly throwing out reads of "X seems town, Y might not be"? | ||
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Cephiro
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@ rayn, Moosy, jat: I guess you all have a point, but for now I'll stick to my own conclusions of different actions. I suppose the game has to be started somehow, you'll have to pardon me for not joining this "everyone gets a read" -start, as I'd prefer to be more confident in my reads before sharing any (unless others feel like my opinion is valuable enough / they need more contest to be able to read me from), in which case I'm willing to share my more unsure / leaning a bit towards something reads. | ||
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On September 15 2015 07:45 Wile E. Coyote wrote: so no one answered my question. I didnt care that much but it was a free town read and kind of a test I won't mind answering your questions otherwise, but I think it would be stupid of me (as someone who hasn't been around for years), to claim that I have any idea about people and their meta. I'm just going to consider like I never knew anything about any player here and make my reads based on that, with a small exception for some experience being into account. (As in, I am well aware that some players in the game have an extensive history of playing mafia, which will more or less affect the way they approach the game.) | ||
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Cephiro
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On September 15 2015 07:47 Damdred wrote: Actually I don't suggest playing this way at all it requires me to care and reevaluate to often and to much. But I generally do catch mafia when rayn and I don't tear the thread apart as we go after two different mafia lol. I have to admit this post sounds a bit off to me. If you're town, you wouldn't really care as much about consistency since whatever you say will be your true opinion on the persons you read. Of course you want to play properly so the town benefits more, but you sound a bit like "I need to pay extra attention to what I do so I won't get called out for inconsistencies." As far as I know, mafia are usually much more concerned about that kind of stuff than town. Of course no town wants to be misread as scum as it's not beneficial for them, but they don't have the "innate fear of being caught" for an inconsistency. Just saying what I think. | ||
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Cephiro
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On September 15 2015 07:56 Damdred wrote: I don't know how you got I worry about inconsistencies at all from my post when I just said its a lot of work constantly re evaluating early reads as the game progresses? Actually I don't suggest playing this way at all it requires me to care and reevaluate to often and to much. This is the sentence that I'm referring to. I could easily be misreading it by giving my conclusion too much power over the true meaning of it. (Something I even mentioned earlier shouldn't be done, talk about being a hypocrite.) It just seemed like it was more of a "This playstyle is a burden on me" (which, if you're town, should be no issue since you've decided to pursue that style yourself, thus calling it a burden seems a bit contradictory), rather than "I wouldn't suggest this playstyle for others". But I might be just reading too much into it. | ||
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Cephiro
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On September 15 2015 07:33 Koshi wrote: You can all thank me for showing you Cephiro his alignment in postgame. #Koshi4MVP @Koshi: I'd like to clarify for myself what you mean by this. Are you truly claiming that pegging me as mafia was just a ploy to get a reaction out of me and now you consider it fairly likely that I am town, or are you saying you're still confident I'm mafia? (and as one among the million other things you'll claim, going for those post-game bragging rights you like? As for that, you should probably know that if you make 10 claims which of one ends up being right, it's not exactly bragworthy..) Or if there's something else you mean by this, do clarify so I can try and get a better read on you. | ||
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Cephiro
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On September 15 2015 08:07 ritoky wrote: yo cephiro, man of solid reads, you got any? lay em on me brother. No solid reads at this point. Have a few leaning reads on some people, but not significant enough to be worth sharing right now. (Unless you insist to know.) I'd prefer to wait until around halfway through the cycle when everyone has been able to participate and there's more content to go by off. | ||
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Cephiro
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Probably the only thing I dislike about his play so far is townreading Dam because he seems to share his views on Dam's reads. The things that make me feel rayn is town are mostly these two: 1) Calling out small, specific things and raising their significance where they might've otherwise gone unnoticed. ---a) Moosy's following post: + Show Spoiler + On September 15 2015 07:14 MoosyDoosy wrote: DId I draw attention to this post before? If I didn't I'm doing it now. ---b) Alternatively, clarifying what the "content" spoken of is, or pointing out a possible inconsistency.(Not going to start arguing whichever dam meant with little content, I personally don't consider it significant) + Show Spoiler + On September 15 2015 07:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am curious, where is this content from ritoky you are talking about? 2) The way he addressed the smurf player. Even though jat did this also afterward, combined with the filter as a whole rayn gets the points out of this in my reads. It's an approach I didn't think of at all, which is also why my own reply to him was much more neutral. Even if I don't necessarily agree with what rayn said being correct, (although I do believe most of the points he raised are valid), I very much liked the way that he pushed someone as soon as he saw a proper opportunity. I'm personally a firm believer that even if you're unsure, but believe someone to be mafia, you should pressure them. It makes them have to defend themselves, and regardless of the end result you've created more information for everyone to base their reads on. Best case scenario, your pressure might've caused a mafia to slip. Worst case scenario, you "wasted time", pushing a townie, but it might've helped people to get a read on both of you. Of course a mafia player is capable of doing this also, but in this case I'm much more inclined to believe that it's a town rayn pressuring something he didn't like, rather than a scum rayn pushing a mislynch agenda. | ||
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On September 15 2015 09:01 geript wrote: Just woke up. Idk what read you expect me to have but moosy is town. Would like you to answer these two (@geript, about moosy): 1) Do you think there is a chance he could be scum? 2) Would you say he's either extremely town or extremely scum, or do you think he can fit somewhere in-between? | ||
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Cephiro
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Are you saying 100% because you are that confident in being correct about what you're seeing, or would you admit there's a possibility you could be wrong (even if unlikely?). After this I'll be done questioning you for now, thanks. | ||
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Cephiro
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But more relevantly, I'm "double-checking" not because of numbers but the reasoning behind the number. Are you willing to co-operate for one, such a simple question? If you're town, it doesn't really benefit you in the slightest to be an ass because you can or avoid a request as simple as that. So, I'll give you one more chance to address that with a proper answer until I draw my own conclusions of what you say. | ||
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However, I'd like to address the hilarity of some people before I do. I find it quite sad that people are considering me mafia when my content has not changed at all, the only difference is my level of activity. As in, it's extremely funny to read these posts considering me as mafia from the people that leaned town on me, without any further reasoning. That's wishy-washy if I've ever seen it. If they at least based their reasoning on process of elimination, as in what others have brought to the table, I could understand it, but they haven't. So basically the only real reasoning they have to push me as mafia is 1) My level of activity & 2) Because it fits their agenda better If you ask me, both are fairly bullshit reasons. As for those that are currently voting me as pressure for me to make content, that's fairly pointless. I play and post when I have the time to do so with nothing else taking the priority over mafia. I couldn't care less if people vote for me because I haven't said something in a while or not. The only reason anyone should be voting for me is if they truly think I'm mafia. At least a few people have pointed out something small such as an "inconsistency" between me telling people to banter about, and then "overreacting and being serious" when I get told I'm mafia for nothing. And well, if some people honestly think that makes a person mafia, then by all means do vote for me, and additionally make yourself look like an idiot. If you push me, push me for real reasons instead of marginal bullshit you have to pretty much make up to have something to go at me. A sidenote for the "meta" thing I've never enjoyed: I can't believe some people are seriously even mentioning anything that I've done in games from 2 years back. It's like saying "I played rock-paper-scissors with this random guy years ago and he picked scissors. Now I met him again and we decided to play it again, I'm sure he's going to pick scissors again." Like are you even for real? How stupid is that. But yeah, that'll be it until I'm done re-reading. | ||
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Cephiro
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On September 16 2015 18:12 Wile E. Coyote wrote: Me thinking moosy is scummy is nothing new its in the thread. My top town also agreed at about the same time as me. And yes math is very important on day 1 lynches. You hit mafia way less on day 1. So voting someone whos probably not a power role and the most likely to me to flip mafia is the easiest vote of my life In my opinion, townies shouldn't be concerned with the power roles they possess anywhere else but in their mind. At most, you can try to distract mafia from finding them, but I don't see why a townie would ever want to bring up anything about someone being a power role or not. If you make a honest claim of not being one, that's a smaller pool for the mafia to search from. Fakeclaiming VT to get people off your back is a possibility, but I don't see why a power role would feel the necessity to do that on D1 if it's not a "everyone claims"-parade for whatever reason. On September 15 2015 11:30 Wile E. Coyote wrote: Palmer didnt say much he just trolled a bit and mentioned role pms which would have got him instantly mod killed on most sites lol. He also was the only one who seemed curious as to who I was. Im kind of suspicious of this. The "no your not vt" when someone claimed vt seemed kind of like a rolehunt. I had the same thought but im not gonna mention it and help mafia do there job ^ I feel this is fairly contradictory when taken the above quote into account? For someone not wanting to help mafia by talking about rolehunting, he sure pays a fair lot of attention to it. On September 16 2015 18:41 Wile E. Coyote wrote: I never acualy said I would do pro town things. I said me shutting up about a subject was pro town. Ill do what I wanna do on my own scedule ^ On your own schedule sure, but why the hell would you not do pro-town things? On September 16 2015 20:10 Wile E. Coyote wrote: when i am mafiai am not voting someone that is believed to be vt. Thats for damn sure im going after potential poweroles. I think if theres clear evidence im town its that im voting a claimed vt because i am not terrible. In the format I play protecting power roles is super important and finding them as mafia is even more. I have moosys range as vt/ lying about being vt for cheap newbie town reads. So you wouldn't take a mislynch served on a platter as mafia? Calling bullshit on this. As much as I dislike VT claims early on, I would argue that voting for a VT claim does in absolutely no way make you town. If you think protecting power roles is important, then why the hell are you constantly bringing attention to people who have claimed vt and whether they've fakeclaimed or not? Still got the last 15 pages or so to go through more in-depth, but I'm getting a fairly good idea of how I'd like to lynch today. Assuming nothing significant to change my mind comes up: Wile > JAT > marv/geript | ||
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Cephiro
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JAT mostly for reasons that have been brought up, as in producing mostly irrelevant content. Sure, he talks and asks stuff but so far it feels like he's being around for the sake of being around. marv because even though he is "participating", it doesn't seem he's doing enough with the information he goes after. I mean, he asks a lot of questions and posts his opinions, but he doesn't really try to get anything done with it. He could be just trying to get a better read on the game as a whole, but I don't see him pushing for anything strongly enough to get something done. With his post quality and amount, I'd expect him to try to get something done with all the information he's gathering. So far I don't see that happening? If you compare it to your play for example, you have more nonsensical stuff in your filter that's irrelevant than he does, but you're much more actively pressuring your scumreads and trying to get shit done. geript because half of his posts are absolutely irrelevant to the game, and the remainder feels like the level of I don't give a shit -commitment. As in, he talks about palmar meta like it's somehow significant. I'm not saying meta is a thing that should never be used, but infuriates me when I see experienced mafia players here using it like "But player X has said hi as town in three games in a row, so if his first post isn't hi he has to be scum". Seriously? Maybe I don't just understand you veterans metaing each other for the stupidest reasons ever and I'm the idiot, but that's honestly how I feel about most of your "meta" analysis towards each other. | ||
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Cephiro
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@Moosy: Is there a specific reason you're not voting for me? As far as I recall, you've had me pegged as fairly likely to be scum, and based on votecount alone I'd be a better option for you to vote than Wile. After all, you can only be certain of your own alignment. So, how come? Slightly related, I really don't think Moosy should be lynched today, and in the worst case scenario of the vote ending between me and Moosy (hopefully not), I may vote in such a way that it is less likely for Moosy to get lynched. I'll try to do my best to give you reasoning for better targets, even if I believe it is unlikely for people to assemble on someone such as marv at this point. For now though: ##vote: Wile E. Coyote | ||
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Cephiro
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On September 17 2015 04:31 ritoky wrote: @cephiro, is this accurate? On September 17 2015 01:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: Cephiro is mafia because when he is town he tries to find mafia, when he is mafia he is more interested in arguing why he isn't mafia and reading obvious townies town. In my personal opinion, the bolded part is accurate sometimes. As for reading obvious townies town as mafia, sometimes it's a good play and sometimes it's not a good play. Situationally correct, but I believe rayn means it's something I'd continously aim to do (or unconciously do) as mafia, which I'm quite certain I don't. | ||
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I am certainly implying there is a possibility I might not vote for him in such a scenario, but I'd like to wait until he replies before I might elaborate on that further. For now I'd still lynch him over me, due to the reason I pointed out which you also quoted me for. @ritoky: rayn is very likely town, I have reasons to lean town on Onegu, I'm very confident at least one of Koshi / ritoky(you) is town. I currently believe it's also very likely Moosy is town. The remainder consist of people whom I'd either see as possible scum, hesitant to townread, or unsure / need more content to lean towards a way or another. Currently writing up about marv. Even if it's not going to get him lynched today, nor might it be the best content, I want to be transparent and share the things about his play that make me suspicious of him at the moment. | ||
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On September 17 2015 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why are you curious? Like do you think he could be mafia for it? If you do, how is that possible when you - assuming you think you are town - do basicallythe same thing? If you don't think he is mafia what's the point of bringing this up ~2h before the lynch? No, do not write about marv. If you do not think you can lynch him there is absolutely no reason to write about marv over let's say Wile - because right now it is not clear the person you want to lynch is getting lynched over your (assumedly?) top town read. Cephiro you are really scummy when you do this shit... you should know better. You are focusing on irrelevant matters instead of relevant ones. Well I guess you're correct that it's not the best thing to do at this moment if I'm not certain it'll get him lynched, which I do doubt. So I'll post my thoughts on marv during the nightcycle when it won't interfere with more important matters at hand, fair point. It's no about why I'm curious, certainly his reason will have an effect on my read on him, but how could you not be? He said I'm one of his top scumreads, and instead he's voting for Wile (also a top scumread of his). For me the situation is a bit different, as I think it is fairly likely for him to be town. If he gets lynched, then whatever he ended up answering is fairly irrelevant. If he doesn't get lynched, it's likely to be of some extent useful content. And most importantly, it will affect my read on him, which at this point (soon before the lynch), is fairly relevant. | ||
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Cephiro
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Aside for onegu, idk why the hell he's on that wagon. So geript, do you have any actual reasoning for voting me? Or are you going based off on "I'm going to do nothing but sheep, and I claimed a townread on Moosy so that's my only option that I don't have to put effort in"? Or were you getting concerned that you won't get a majority on me in time, and wanted to ensure I'm the first one with X votes in case of a tie? | ||
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On September 17 2015 05:38 geript wrote: dat hurts, but I understand it w/ my recent games. Still hurstBy still not giving any reasoning (even to the extent of "I'm just a lazy fuck and sheeping"), and still voting on me, you're currently consolidating your position in the bottom list to be even stronger. For someone that hasn't said jack shit about me, you seem fairly confident I'm the best lynch for today. | ||
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Cephiro
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So however mad you might be, you can't deny replying with _anything at all_ as for why you're even voting on me, someone you haven't given a fuck about during the whole game pretty much, is too much asked without making you look either terrible or more scummy than before? | ||
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On September 17 2015 05:56 Wile E. Coyote wrote: I was literally about to vote geript or on onegu who I feel definitely deserves presure. Then this shit happens Onegu lynch is highly unlikely to happen at this point, you'd probably be better off deciding who you want to lynch between me/you/JAT/Moosy. Only 30 minutes left to vote after all. | ||
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Cephiro
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I didn't give reasoning for saying I think one of Koshi/you are town either, same with Moosy, but you don't seem to be care about that at all. Just forget nitpicking for now and focus on the relevant stuff. If you want reasons for my townreads, I'll give them later when they're relevant as I said I'd do with my opinion on marv (unless you all actually end up lynching me, which would be quite sad.) | ||
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On September 17 2015 06:00 Wile E. Coyote wrote: I dont even like that list we can all be town. moosy still has the best chance to flip mafia from that list. Why do I have to vote one of them? I feel like so many people are skating by doing nothing. With new information on moosy I dont see him flipping scum nearly as often altho that last posts were suspect No shit, I wouldn't propose myself to be lynched either. I'm just stating the facts of the situation, it's unlikely that any other than one of us four is going to get lynched, so it's pointless to argue about trying to get on someone else. I mean you can vote for a lurker or someone else all you want, but it's not going to accomplish anything. It's better if you make your vote count for something rather than just throwing it away. | ||
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K. What's next? I'm scum and Onegu is clearly scum too because I "defended" him? Get real. As for the JAT stuff, you should know well enough by now why people are voting for him. Mainly for being very active, but doing nothing in practice. It's like he's playing to "Just be around" and "you guys can just read me better later anyway". | ||
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On September 17 2015 06:21 marvellosity wrote: has Wile redeemed himself then? question is for anyone People seem to think with his recent contribution he is less scummy to the extent that there are better targets available. | ||
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##vote Wile E. Coyote Still do think marv is a good lynch, but not in a hurry to do anything about it since we have "confirmed" scum to kill. I guess I'll post my thoughts on it during the night or later in the daycycle, depending on when I feel like it. (Or unless you people have a specific reason you'd want it any earlier, given that it's not currently very relevant.) Doubt mafia wants to kill me with my current level of activity, would make sense for them to keep me around to try and push a mislynch on me later. Someone was also asking about my scum play, whoever that was: I can do pretty much anything as scum (and town too). Bussing is more like a rule, with not bussing being the exception for me. At least when it comes to games where there are at least 3 mafia members. So while I won't mind if you read me favourably based on my voting and actions at the end of D1, you shouldn't think it has to make me town. | ||
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You know I want to get marv lynched (tomorrow), that's more than enough for now. You'll get the reasoning in due time. I don't see why I should be around talking about irrelevant stuff meanwhile. First we deal with the matter at hand, and then we move onto the next thing on schedule. I've seen flailing about instead of going for the obvious thing that should be done more than I care to remember. | ||
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On September 15 2015 09:02 marvellosity wrote: Palmar doesn't really deserve the number of townreads he has at this point, it's way too early. ^ Early on D1. What I do agree with, is that it's way to early to give anyone proper townreads at that point based on close to no proper information except earlygame bantering which is most of the time very irrelevant. Don't really understand his motive behind calling Palmar out like this when there were other players townread even more at that point, unless it just doesn't fit marv's agenda. (I think a townie would approach more like a "why are you all townreading this person" rather than "you people should not townread this person", the latter style being clearly aimed towards discrediting the person in question.) On September 15 2015 21:22 marvellosity wrote: normally (always?) when jat is mafia you can snare him near the end of the day when he's not quite as capable of pushing interesting things strongly. For someone that has been calling jat mafia a fair few times, I haven't seen many snaring attempts.. If you go and check marv's filter, it has a lot of pages and posts but very few posts actually aim towards getting something done. He might be partaking in discussion or asking questions every once a while, but the key thing is that he's just asking for the sake of asking. He doesn't do anything with the answers he gets. He sits around being content with getting a reply to a question. Sure, not all town players ask the most useful questions all the time, but generally even if something can be understood as a stupid question, there's something that the player asking it wants to achieve with it. I don't see any of that in marv's filter, he rarely follows up a question with anything further. There's a clear lack of goal in what he does. On September 16 2015 20:00 marvellosity wrote: totally forgot Wile. Would probably also lynch because i think most others look townier. i think rayn's defence of him is based on associations that he shouldn't be making (esp moosy). Except... he ends up following rayn's reasoning in the end and conveniently ends up not voting for Wile who he seemed to be okay lynching earlier (and all the way fairly close to the lynch deadline). Do note the reasoning for that also is very lacking. Most others look more town? Sheesh.. just screams "I don't have any real reason to vote for him, so I'll just say I have even less reason voting for others." On September 16 2015 20:05 marvellosity wrote: yes i saw that, but decided to leave them to have it out at some stage i don't really want to touch damdred with a bargepole if you do, please go ahead :> ^ Distancing from damdred, how much interaction have you seen between these two during the game..? And marv has 15+ pages of filter (mostly irrelevant nonsense.) Here comes the fun part. Guess who convinces marv that Wile isn't a worthy lynch? On September 17 2015 06:27 marvellosity wrote: yes ok, not sure about super towny but i'm definitely getting it. hrmph It just so happens to be Damdred! Do take notice of how marv is instantly fine with not lynching Wile anymore. (Not that he ever provided proper reasoning for why he wanted to lynch Wile.. the only thing he stuck on to was the "test" thing of his earlygame, asking players for meta.) He also defends / favourably views damdred on Page 10 of marv's filter, mostly discussion regarding this post of Dam's: On September 15 2015 10:27 Damdred wrote: Koshi is really town here like id be impressed if this is scum game koshi. Geript has a few posts that give me a small amount of pause that he could potentially be town like his moosey read is something that he would do when he's town. But he just is lacking some form of curiosity he might has here. That being said that one read on moosey really has me doubting my scum read currently. It just looks so towny of him to do. The more I think about it the more I want to town read him and I defdinately don't want to lynch him now... Soft-defending a person that you've been trying to stay at a distance from? Gives me very much a scum-scum interaction feeling. On September 18 2015 00:17 marvellosity wrote: cop should totally check me, that sounds like a totally sensible use of a cop's resources. ^ During N1. Looks like a very obvious "Mafia GF with questionable thread presence trying to get easy cred with a greencheck" -ploy. I'd argue if marv was town, he wouldn't seriously suggest himself to be checked in that case. Then his filter is mainly filled with useless back and forth arguing with JAT, with the occasional mention of him looking at a ceph lynch favourably. It's not like he has too many options when he has never pushed for anything strongly, it'd probably be weird enough if he stepped his game out of nowhere and started to push someone.. so he's content with taking jabs at me, those jabs being very non-committal. (Do note the fearmongering as well, he talks about my experience at several points as something to be wary of.) ##vote marvellosity Let's continue lynching scum. | ||
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Cephiro
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On September 22 2015 21:47 Palmar wrote: Cephiro drops hard hitting analysis on the guy we're lynching anyway and isn't even trying to defend himself. 1) This happened to be the best time for me to post my thoughts on marv as I refused to do so earlier, it being irrelevant. What should I defend myself from? "Cephiro might be mafia because of his activity?" That's not even worth addressing, that's how bad of a case anyone thinking I'm scum is currently. 2) My read hasn't "conveniently changed" to marv or anything of the sort as you can point from my scarce posting history. I've been thinking he's a good lynch for a while, and I posted my reasons now that it's relevant and I had the time to do so. Or do you seriously think that me just joining in the wagon saying "Well we're voting marv anyway and I've said he's scum for a while now so I'll just roll with it", then fucking off would've been reasonable? I don't think so. As a sidenote, I have to say I find it amusing what the "best" reasoning for considering me as potential mafia is so far. On September 23 2015 02:11 Damdred wrote: And I am playing in pretty well documented that I think ceph is the last mafia at this point with Marv. It is pretty apparent with how quickly Marv jumped off cephbfor non reasons and hammered someone who he didn't want to lynch earlier. Though this could point to your being mafia as well I think its more likely its ceph in that situation. We gave him a decent amount of credit for trying to push another lynch in scum mate wile but it is a bit wifom since he gave up the push on wile so quickly especially when two other wagons were fighting and it was possible to go on someone else. And he was really concerned about saving his own neck staring he would vote moosey to save himself. I mean, just look at this. I gave the push up on wile so quickly? My vote stood on wile as long as it was feasible, and with people defending him (INCLUDING YOU, who told marv he did a very towny thing which marv just took for granted), I wasn't going to get him killed after trying a while. I ended up voting jat whom I felt was very scummy back then instead of voting for moosey. Sure, I didn't necessarily vote for my #1 scumread because I did not have the luxury of doing so. Voting so happens to be the greatest power I have this game, and wasting it by voting on someone who isn't going to get lynched is worse than voting for another scumread of yours that IS up for lynch. On September 17 2015 03:12 Cephiro wrote:but I'm getting a fairly good idea of how I'd like to lynch today. Assuming nothing significant to change my mind comes up: Wile > JAT > marv/geript And I stood on to what I said. Concerned about saving myself? Last time I checked, getting oneself killed isn't very much of a pro wincon move. You could argue that sacrificing oneself over a blue as a non-powerrole could be worth it in some scenarios, but for something that you can't be sure of, that's fairly far-fetched. So I didn't jump on the mislynch wagon, but changed my vote from #1 scumread to #2 scumread because it was getting clear we weren't getting my #1 scumread killed, but #2 had a chance of happening. Talk about being super concerned about myself and trying to get nothing done, right? As wifom, I really don't understand how someone could imagine a marv/Ceph scumteam at this point. I mean I like to make big plays, but I'm not a fan of retarded plays (well, except when I'm town and get an idea that I believe is genius when it clearly isn't). If I was scum with my marv, why on earth would you assume I'd have bussed both my scumbuddies since the start of the game? Sure, it's well within my reach to do so, but even I'm not stupid enough to think that I'd come out on top of a 1v5+1 (one confirmed town, ritoky) starting N3. Especially as if you assume both me and marv to be scum, that would mean scott is confirmed town also. Which would mean I'd go into a 1v4+1conftown situation on D4. I'm sure I could get at least one mislynch even at that point if I was mafia, but two when the town has the option of no-lynching on D5 to make it a D6 1v2? Yeah, just no. Not with how much presence I've had in the game so far. I can also assure you that I'd never have approved of a Koshi kill if I was scum. I would've just gone for the actually confirmed town and discredited koshi, given roleblocking into mafia team itself is something I've done several times in the past. Marv may have easily left pursuing my lynch near the deadline, but he did just as much so with Wile. Do you really think marv would've started off with a scum/scum bus only to waffle himself on a town mislynch? Just no. Feel free to point out reasons you disagree, but trying to think of it from a neutral PoV, I honestly can't see how someone would ever think me+marv is a possible scumteam at this point. In theory sure, in practice no. I don't mind if a townie genuinely misreads me as scum for valid reasons, people make mistakes all the time. But when the reasoning is absolute crap and spells "Opportunistic and far-fetched" all over it, you'll have to wonder if that's a case coming from a town player or a scum player. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
The thing is, I don't feel as strongly about Dam being mafia if marv flips town (which I very much doubt will happen). It's honestly really hard to read into the rest of the players at this point. I'm still not 100% on scott, but on the other hand I think it's extremely unlikely that if scott was scum, he'd claim tracker to basically confirm a kill on his scumbuddy. I mean, it's a possibility for extreme lategame cred, but I don't think Wile was boned enough by that point that it would've been a no-loss play. So while I'm ignoring the small possibility and giving him a townread for now, it's something that should be kept in mind as the game goes on. jat - The amount of sheer activity and presence he has is a double-edged sword. I'm having trouble deciding if it's sincere or not. On the other hand it could be trying to do his best from a townjat, but then again I'm also feeling vibes of "Lack of goal", as in what he's trying to achieve with some of all that activity, not to mention he doesn't seem to mind cluttering the thread with useless crap or arguing back and forth either, which isn't exactly productive (although I would have to say useless posts seem to be a thing in this game and something almost everyone can be called out for...). I do feel it's a bit more likely for him to be town currently, but I just can't seem to get rid of the thought he could also be mafia making the best out of his thread presence. (Although if marv flips mafia, I think it's slightly less likely for JAT to be mafia, even if still within reach of being a reasonable possibility.) geript seems too chill to be scum. I'm not saying he's getting a lot done, but I feel like he'd try to assert more control over town if he's scum. Currently he seems to prefer measuring dicks with the occasional opinion (which is reasonable, but I'd also expect him to be doing more analysis / more pushing for his scumreads?). It's more of a gut feeling but there isn't enough proper content from him for me to reach a proper conclusion. Palmar is kind of under-the-radar. In a way I feel that he's playing extremely similarly to marv, but for me the key difference is that rather than asking questions, he seems to prefer posting insightful points of view and then being non-conclusive about it (if you read his filter, there are many points where he comes off raising a point, then says he doesn't really make anything out of it either way?). But there are some good points among those he has raised, and I still prefer that to asking questions you're not doing anything with (marv this game). So in short, I'm feeling it would be likely to be damdred (assuming marv flips mafia), but it's honestly really hard for me to pinpoint anything in jat/geript/palmar at the moment. They all have things that point out that they could be town, but they all have reasonable possibilities in which they could be scum as well. Sorry, I know that's not probably very useful but it's really hard for me to find something concrete to make a read from when geript seems to just be chillposting, palmar is going under the radar without committing, and jat makes up 20% of the thread by himself with half of his posts being useless filler. | ||
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Or would you have preferred me to shut up, say nothing and talk again god knows when if I felt like it? If you don't want "bad" posts, don't ask for bad posts. I'm not gonna start making up bullshit and start writing an analysis on how someone is town or mafia if I don't truly believe that's the case, just to have a better looking post. I'm town, thus I post what I think, not what would make me look good. | ||
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On September 23 2015 03:52 ritoky wrote: i also am not particularly fond of cephiro poo pooing the activity argument constantly. sorry but you're not actively trying to lead town anywhere since day 1. so yes activity based scum reads are valid on you. if you don't like it then change your activity level and shove the thread in a direction. you're kinda lucky i had such a town read on you going into this phase because you've been wildly underwhelming. Right, because everyone can be a town leader, right? Let's all measure our penises during the night cycle so the ones that live on D4 can follow their leader with the mightiest organ instead of everyone trying to be a town leader. How much I post is completely irrelevant regarding if I'm scum or not. I can be the most active player in the thread as both scum and town. I can be the least active player in the thread both as scum and town. As I said before, if you scumread me, do it for valid reasons instead of the bullshit some of you are making up. Or am I scum because I didn't come flaunt my massive anaconda that has my feelings written all over it to your face during D2 when we had better things to do, like finish lynching the self-claimed scum? Not going to argue this point further, I believe I've made myself clear enough. | ||
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On September 23 2015 03:58 Damdred wrote: Like, if you read filters these are the reasons to read people town. JAT: Though thread prescense was insanely down d1 and he lacked his normal flair and push his n1 push on confirmed scum wile was insanely good. His continued effort through d2 and into d3 and his early push and continued push on Marv is great for him. THERE IS A SLIGHT TINFOIL that he bussed both but the pushes came at a horrible time for a bus and I highly doubt it at this juncture. Probably town. Hahaha, just what? What is this bullshit you're saying? Jat pushed wile in what universe? Look at the votecount thread. JAT did not even vote for wile a single time. Guess who where the only two votes on Wile on D1? Me and moosy, yeah. But somehow you keep saying a lot of people (but not me??) have pushed the wile lynch so hard on D1. That's just fucking hilarious. On September 17 2015 02:43 justanothertownie wrote: I started reading Wiles filter fully expecting to convince myself that he is the best lynch today but I just can't seem to. I still disagree strongly with a lot of the stuff he said but I am not sure it actually makes him mafia. I can see some sort of train of thought reading his filter. This is annoying. On September 17 2015 02:48 justanothertownie wrote: Because I might prefer lynching damdred over all the people in the poe list I posted earlier. On September 17 2015 02:55 justanothertownie wrote: I could also lynch Cephiro. There was this one post that seemed kinda honest to me early on but 90 % of his posts are about himself and once people started townreading him he just disappeared and only returned when he was being pushed again to complain about people pushing him. It doesn't seem like he is interested in finding or lynching mafia. On September 17 2015 03:08 justanothertownie wrote: Yeah, so damdred is very wishy washy and inconclusive throughout his filter. Until his recent posts he just fell off completely and it doesn't really seem like he cares about getting his scumreads lynched or figuring them out. Like he called me mafia all game for no reason, but did he ever question me? Did he ask me things or did he in any way try to figure me out? Nope. Did he do it for Waffle who he is also calling mafia? Nope. Then there is the fact that neither ritoky nor geript are townreading him which is very interesting. I think he is a decent lynch. On September 17 2015 03:09 justanothertownie wrote: Ok, so I think I want to lynch between Cephiro and Damdred. Any recommendations? I have to leave in a few minutes :/ On September 17 2015 08:49 justanothertownie wrote: Why on earth did you lynch moosy? Wtf happened to the Cephiro wagon? Why the fuck did rayn lynch moosy after saying mafia is most likely between damdred, cephiro and me? Good job, you made a town/town lynch happen. Don't even consider for a nanosecond that the people on my wagon are more towny than the people on moosy. If there is a vigilante shoot me. Did I make my point clear enough? I think you should read before you spout out nonsense. | ||
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On September 18 2015 00:10 justanothertownie wrote: And to the Wile thing: Moosy was Wiles top mafiaread almost all game right? The thing we are talking about is the main reason why people scumread Moosy before rayn went full retard. And it wasn't a throwaway comment someone made at some point. It was actually said by multiple people and was a big point of discussion. So you are telling me Wile does not know why his top mafiaread is being scumread. The conclusion is that he is either totally disinterested in his top mafiaread or that he is acting. Both heavily point towards him being mafia. ^ I'll agree that this was a good post/case, but as a whole, I don't see how it's "insanely good", when it wasn't even the main reason we lynched Wile. Especially when you take into account he didn't give a fuck about getting Wile lynched D1. For the activity part: If you're going to read me as scum because I'm not interested in comparing my dick with yours, then go ahead and do so. And look at me when I don't give a fuck. I prefer having less posts with more substance, instead of joining the who has the biggest dick competition and arguing "no you" back and forth for pages and pages. If that's what you people think makes someone town, then I sure as hell wish I wasn't town now right now. Don't see any of you asking me anything productive, so I'm out until closer to lynch time. | ||
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Cephiro
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On September 23 2015 04:26 Damdred wrote: And all you do is try to deflect and blame the rest of the town or give many big opinions or show why your top scum read is your top read. Pushed and voted Wile D1 until I swapped at the end because people weren't getting on him. Been telling you marv is scum since game started. GET FUCKED. Think I'm just gonna idle the night with my no substance. On September 23 2015 04:26 Damdred wrote: I just don't get it, your posts haven't had substance at all. NOPE. BYE. | ||
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On September 23 2015 07:10 ritoky wrote: Your previous posts have been highly inconclusive. Doesn't post much, sticking to conclusive stuff. -> Ceph is mafia because he is not active. (Because waving the dick around and talking about irrelevant shit has to happen D2 when there's a self-claimed scum up for lynch) Posts more when asked, also telling about his unsure opinions -> Wow you wishy-washy fuck, so inconclusive and useless. What the fuck does this town want? Also I'm not dying tonight anyway, why should I need to be posting during the night-time? Might as well just wait for the flip (which should be obvious, but you never know), and talk after. Also gives me more time to be "conclusive" like you want. Like honestly, you can't deny my votes and reads have been on point. If you dislike me not waving my dick and spamming irrelevant shit when it's not needed, that's your issue. On September 23 2015 07:15 Damdred wrote: Imo Scott alive after tonight is horrid and at lylo is basically a scum,claim. Scott has to follow Geript or cerph tonight, no matter what imo it clears huge pieces of the puzzles. A track on me would be stupid as fuck, it should be fairly obvious by this point that I'm town. Re: + Show Spoiler + On September 23 2015 02:53 Cephiro wrote: As wifom, I really don't understand how someone could imagine a marv/Ceph scumteam at this point. I mean I like to make big plays, but I'm not a fan of retarded plays (well, except when I'm town and get an idea that I believe is genius when it clearly isn't). If I was scum with my marv, why on earth would you assume I'd have bussed both my scumbuddies since the start of the game? Sure, it's well within my reach to do so, but even I'm not stupid enough to think that I'd come out on top of a 1v5+1 (one confirmed town, ritoky) starting N3. Especially as if you assume both me and marv to be scum, that would mean scott is confirmed town also. Which would mean I'd go into a 1v4+1conftown situation on D4. I'm sure I could get at least one mislynch even at that point if I was mafia, but two when the town has the option of no-lynching on D5 to make it a D6 1v2? Yeah, just no. Not with how much presence I've had in the game so far. I can also assure you that I'd never have approved of a Koshi kill if I was scum. I would've just gone for the actually confirmed town and discredited koshi, given roleblocking into mafia team itself is something I've done several times in the past. Marv may have easily left pursuing my lynch near the deadline, but he did just as much so with Wile. Do you really think marv would've started off with a scum/scum bus only to waffle himself on a town mislynch? Just no. Feel free to point out reasons you disagree, but trying to think of it from a neutral PoV, I honestly can't see how someone would ever think me+marv is a possible scumteam at this point. In theory sure, in practice no. I don't mind if a townie genuinely misreads me as scum for valid reasons, people make mistakes all the time. But when the reasoning is absolute crap and spells "Opportunistic and far-fetched" all over it, you'll have to wonder if that's a case coming from a town player or a scum player. Not that he should live through the night anyway. | ||
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I'd like to remind you I was the only player along with Moosy (who died D1) to even vote for Wile N1, but no-one else seemed to agree it's an option viable enough. Day 2 is obviously not relevant, everyone will always vote for the claimed scum in that scenario. Day 3 ended up not mattering, I would have expected marv to play it out since I feel he would've had a decent chance of avoiding a lynch if he put his all into it (maybe time issues irl? Iuno.) In any case, you and me have both been going for marv since very early on in the game, and you picked on pushing Wile not too long after me either. Like honestly, I do know it's well within both of our reach to do a double-bus if the situation warranted for it, but going hard on both scumbuddies since the start? Especially continuing this hard on marv after the D2 wile flip? Not to mention that koshi kill I would never have done as scum (you say you would've). Like honestly the only reason I don't consider you as confirmed town is because you taking advantage of your presence and rolling with it + the extra cred is an extremely small possibility (yet a viable one), and the fact that I haven't seen your role pm while I've seen mine. For all I care aside ritoky (conf town), you should stick around till LYLO if we don't end it before then. You're not going to do a slip if you're mafia anyway, and the possibility that you're mafia is much, much smaller than that you're town. | ||
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On September 23 2015 07:36 ritoky wrote: You do realize I have been the literal only person in the game almost perpetually town shielding you and probably the primary reason you haven't been seriously considered on the lynch table right? You understand that correct? I made it very clear what i wanted. 1 word. I'll also make it clear. You're not the reason I'm alive. You're not a guardian of mine, I don't give a shit about anything you demand. If you want to co-operate, sure, I'm up for that. If you're going to be a dick and try to pretend being my savior, no. I don't care. Then I'll just ignore you and post what I want when I want. | ||
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On September 23 2015 07:36 Damdred wrote: I don't think you are obvious town at this juncture, a track on you would clear up certain things and shrink,the lynch pool however and me you geript are the thread biggest contentions. And night is the best tile to scum,hunt .. You and geript are the best tracks if Scott is real. Me I'm a horrid track and I'm probably getting lynched anywsy Give me a short explanation of why Palmar is not a valid track target, if you truly, honestly, somehow think I'm a good track target (and you aren't?). | ||
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On September 23 2015 07:34 scott31337 wrote: EZPZ question - Who do you want to lynch tomorrow? Irrelevant until I have information of what happens during the night. On September 23 2015 07:36 Damdred wrote: And night is the best tile to scum,hunt .. Any information available during the night is there just as much for scum as it is for town. It's a good time to re-evaluate and analyze your own reads on different people, but there's not much of a reason to share it with town unless you come up with something significant that would likely affect the way a power role would act that night. Otherwise it's best to keep things to yourself and post anything of relevance before the deadline. That combined with whatever the results of the night cycle are gives a good start for the following day to continue upon. What happens during the day is much more relevant for scumhunting than what someone says during the night in most cases. Feel free to disagree, but this is how I see it. | ||
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On September 23 2015 07:46 ritoky wrote: What is there to co-operate with, you've been stand-offish and dismissive toward everyone; the moment someone considers you might be mafia you make 0 effort to understand or argue against it and call them and their reasons shit. Your posts don't have clear direction of where you want to go this game and the justifications tend to be lacking at best. I have spent the majority of the time you've been in the thread attempting to get you to participate in a meaningful way that will allow other players to get a proper read on you and you've just been having none of it. You've wanted to stall for ungodly amounts of time for no justified reason. You've actively refused to give reads or state a definitive target. You've treated pretty much everyone who interacts with you with venom. And quite frankly if you're town been an atrocious teammate. And yes if you didn't have confirmed town shielding you for so long you would be in a lot of trouble. Feel free to ignore my posts, they probably won't be here for but 23 more hours; but don't think your play justifies your holier than thou attitude; regardless of your alignment. I would be much more eager to co-operate if: 1) You wouldn't call me out for being "indecisive" or "unconclusive", when I clearly point out that if you really want me to share something I am not sure of myself, it's obviously not going to be very helpful in most cases. I can see how the extra information can be valuable at times, but if all you're going to do is call me out for it, then just what the fuck are you doing? If you ask for indecisive information, that's what you fucking get. Even more so, if that's going to be your basis to make a case for me being scum. (Me telling I'm not sure on X, you wanting me to share that I'm not sure on X in detail, then calling me scum because I opened upon something I wasn't sure of?) <-- This is absolutely fucking retarded play if you're town. And then there's the oh god, so amazing, NAI activity argument. Do note that with "you" I mean this on a general level, rather than you personally. I've stated a definitive target multiple times, even if I haven't opened up on the reasoning right away. I wanted to share my read on marv D1, until rayn persuaded me not to. Which was in my opinion very reasonable, it was a lynch that was not going to happen D1. (Why should I spam up the thread with something no-one will even care about?) With me being one of the main wagons of D1, I was confident I wouldn't be able to affect a possible power role's actions by sharing my read during that night (nor should I be concerned about doing so, blues can use their own brain). During D2, the tracker claim on Wile came out early on. Why the fuck should I waste time talking about marv, in the worst case making him even more aware / careful / cause him to play differently? N2 as per my logic, there was no reason for me to be posting about my reads at that time. I wasn't going to die anyway. And D3 I did when I had the time to do so, it just happened to be later on in the cycle. Well boo fucking hoo, sue me. In short: Don't ask me to co-operate with you, if all you're going to is call my content shit, when you're forcing me to give you shit content. If you'd read more of my filter D1, you'd see I was much more co-operative in my attitude. Don't complain about me being "venom", when you've caused it yourself. Maybe I would have a bit more pressure on me if people if some people hadn't pointed out towny things in my filter. So what? I'm town, it's not anyone elses job to defend me. I can do that fine enough myself if it comes that far. Did I get lynched D1? No, I did not. Did I get lynched D3? No, I did not. Am I going to get lynched D4? No, I am not. I'm not going to get myself get mislynched as town. Don't expect me to contribute much if at all during N3. I might still reply to something as I'm around for now, but once I leave that's probably it. | ||
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If I don't faint from bashing my head against the wall too much, because reading this shit makes me regret signing up for this game. Mostly due to these two reasons: 1) I do not understand how the fuck someone thinks it's possible for me to be part of a Wile+marv scumteam as the third person with how I've played. I've pointed out why and quoted my own case explaining why that doesn't happen even if hell froze over, so it's really making me wonder how thick Damdred is or if he has to go for me because he's scum and thinks he won't get anyone else lynched. 2) Fucking. Activity. Bullshit. Can you fucking stop repeating the same retarded shit over and over again? I've come around to post whenever it has been relevant and had time to do so. You people are out of your fucking minds if you think the best way to play mafia is to argue with everyone for the sake of arguing and getting filter for the first 10 pages, then talk about how fucking huge your penis is for the next 10. Just because I'm not around the moment you want me to be doesn't mean I don't care about the game. So go shove a clock up your asses and listen to it tick if you don't have anything better to do. Related to the time thing, I will be traveling most of tomorrow and will only be partially available later on closer to the lynch deadline. (Unless internet abandons me at my destination for w/e reason). So after I'm done re-reading and posting my stuff, feel free to ask questions if you're around, because after that you'll have to wait till near lynchtime. | ||
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My reads: Ceph - Towniest Town ritoky - "Confirmed" Town ("'s because he hasn't flipped yet, but obv town..) Palmar - As close to conf town as you can get Jat - Very likely town geript - Slight chance of being scum Damdred - Extremely likely scum From my perspective this is done, as I'm confident enough that town Palmar/JAT are not going to mislynch into me, so we roll with a Damdred lynch today and if he somehow flips town (not happening though), then we lynch geript and win anyway. I'll post a proper case on why Dam is the last remaining scum once I've done my traveling (Expect a case to be posted around 4-6 hours left in deadline), as I'm about to miss my bus if I don't finish packing and leave now (long trip too.) But in short the main reasons are: 1) Interaction with confirmed scum (Dam/Wile + Dam/marv) [Traces of this in my marv case] 2) Read progression on the currently unconfirmed players alive (Mostly on me, jat, to a small extent geript also) 3) Plays exactly the only way a scumdred would have any chance of winning the game with (can't waffle more on JAT, see read progression, has to 1v1 Ceph and get geript lynched because he will never get palmar lynched) 3b) See what is happening right now, been discrediting and casting shade on me for a fair bit now (And guess when that started? Yeah, when things started to go downhill for mafia and every plausible scenario involves a mislynch into me. Too bad for you that I've been intentionally downplaying to the extent of still being around but being a "valid" mislynch target for this very reason.) See how he's not really opposing a geript lynch (even though he talks about how he townreads him? he's more like "Oh I guess it can't be helped if you all think geript is mafia", instead of pushing for his scumread..) because it fits his agenda. What he should be doing at the moment if he was town was nothing but convince everyone to get his top scumread lynched (me). But instead you have this: On September 25 2015 06:11 Damdred wrote: Well I agree that I'm,not trying to lynch my scum atm but trying to not lynch a tr to a point meh. ##vote: Damdred I'll elaborate on further reasoning once I'm available again as per post, but don't expect anything from me until then, as it simply can't be helped even if I wanted to participate more. With that, I'm off. See you all closer to lynch deadline. | ||
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-> Until jat joins his list of lynch targets -> Doesn't push for Wile while considering him a lynch target, until he takes the "super town play" thing and instantly flips his read all the way around (supported by sheeping rayn's opinion that Wile is "never going to be mafia"). Also promotes this "find" to others, INCLUDING marv who joins the thread, who then took it at face value (Because it fit marv's agenda). Jat: Talks about how much irrelevant stuff he does early on without opening up on it for the first 2/3rds of the day, after which he actually starts to give reasons and keeps pushing on him for lynch. Dam's favourite argument "Most of the things jat is pulling against me is pretty nai" is repeated a fair few times. When Wile is busted: On September 18 2015 11:51 Damdred wrote: Jat kinda pushing off wile near end of day is interesting yesterday slightly when he went into his filter and said I expected scummy and couldn't find it. Plus his early soft scumming him but never pushing him. .. yeah, let's make the best out of it. On September 23 2015 02:01 Damdred wrote: You are acting as a revisionist at this point jat. 1) You totally backed off your wile scum read d1, you didn't push wile with any force until n1. Before that it was barely soft pushing 2) I never ridiculed you for scum reading Marv. Honestly jat you can go fuck yourself and that horribly sized ego. My play before I got busy was decent nit good, if your town I did make that bad read but otherwise my reads weren't horribly wrong He still has good reasoning to be suspicious of jat, but he has to drop it because he's changed to be pushing the ceph/marv scumteam. geript: Initial scumread, but then goes to become a strong townread on a purely "feel" basis (is never able to properly reason why), associative almost conftown read based on Wile being scum, runs with this all the way to endgame Ceph: Initial townread -> null when inactive -> townread again after eod1. After wile bust, considers remaining mafia to be in jat+marv+Palmar On September 18 2015 13:42 Damdred wrote: do you think mafia cep instead of just hammering moose pushes scum mate wile near eod or hops on town jat? Though to be fair its considerable that jat/moose both town Marv and ce are scum and both don't care and wile wasn't getting momentum at the end. Read the first sentence. It's minor, but he never even considers a ceph scum / jat scum possibility. (At a point with 1 unlynched self-claimed mafia and 2 unknown mafia) He does fix and take this into account in this next post, though. On September 18 2015 15:04 Damdred wrote: Oart of me wants to take easy road and say, jat for weird interactions saying he has scummy feelings on wile never pushing instead arguing about other things. And that would make palmar probably town to an extent as a his there is weird but not out of palmars scope. Which would probably make Marv his partner as cep would of been on two mafia wile then jat. If jat is town means its more likely palmar+ ceph. The votes d1 don't mean much. Marv+ce is also possible because of how quick Marv was able to get off ce and just sheep rayn to an extent. Keynote: Dam completely skips mentioning the fact that he also played a part in where marv ended up in the D1 vote. Do note the downplay on D1 votes at this point, where earlier he considered them a significant factor in why he read me as town. Also this: He thinks I could not be mafia with jat, because I would've been bussing both my partners. DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THAT MATTERS TO YOU ANYMORE NOW DOES IT? (Confirmed scum marv+wile, I've been on both ahead of time.) On September 22 2015 08:05 Damdred wrote: Such talk id be happy lynching Marv or ceph though. Like I said before I left its really possible that they are a team together since Marv gave up his ceph read for little to no reason at all considering what was going on in the thread. Rereading that part of the game it just boggles how fast Marv gets off ceph when ceph still didn't do anything to go to moosey who he didn't want to lynch. Lije its a really possible scum team. ^ overemphasizing the same point many times over. Do remember that he talked earlier how about I couldn't be scum if i was bussing 2 partners. Why is it an option now then? Because it fits the agenda. He keeps pointing how marv leaving the Ceph wagon makes us a possible scumpair whilst ignoring every other interaction between Ceph/marv all game not to mention the other things that influenced marv's decision @ eod On September 23 2015 02:11 Damdred wrote: And I am playing in pretty well documented that I think ceph is the last mafia at this point with Marv. It is pretty apparent with how quickly Marv jumped off cephbfor non reasons and hammered someone who he didn't want to lynch earlier. Though this could point to your being mafia as well I think its more likely its ceph in that situation. We gave him a decent amount of credit for trying to push another lynch in scum mate wile but it is a bit wifom since he gave up the push on wile so quickly especially when two other wagons were fighting and it was possible to go on someone else. And he was really concerned about saving his own neck staring he would vote moosey to save himself. ^ Now I'm scum for the same reasons he considered me to be town for before. Not to mention that he paints it completely in a different light. Honestly, how the hell does a legit townie go from: "Why would he ever do this as scum, risking his own life?" -> "It was never even close for him so ofc he stayed on mafia for credit" ... Because it fits the agenda, that's why. There's absolutely no other reason to change your read that drastically, and do a complete 180 going from defending someone with that point to pushing them as scum for the same point. On September 23 2015 03:58 Damdred wrote: Like, if you read filters these are the reasons to read people town. JAT: THERE IS A SLIGHT TINFOIL that he bussed both but the pushes came at a horrible time for a bus and I highly doubt it at this juncture. Probably town. Palmar has called out Marv pretty successfully the entirity of the game. (I've cut off parts of this quote, leaving the relevant part for what I'm about to say.) Do note how these two things make other players more town, but somehow it does not make me town at all? Just look at how Damdred is playing right now. Everything he does screams "As long as I survive till tomorrow, things are fine" instead of "We need to lynch scum today". He's not even going through possible scenarios of the last day because they're irrelevant to him, he'll just go with any lynch he's able to get if he's able to win the 1v1 on me today. It's already been pointed out how he's been playing toward the only real way he could win as scum, can you people please just notice this, vote for Dam and win the game so we can all enjoy our weekends? Like just look at the amount of geript asskissing he's been doing. He's trying to ensure geript survives till MYLO because he's the best buddy he has this game, ensuring him the best chance of surviving in MYLO. HE IS NOT CONCERNED WITH LYNCHING SCUM, WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU PEOPLE NOT VOTING FOR THE PERSON WHO IS NOT TRYING TO LYNCH SCUM?!? If you look at his latest pages of filter, every single thing I post about he tries to undermine / discredit, even when he admits some of my points / play has been good. He is not committing because he knows he will get called out for it, so he's trying to waffle his way about so he can commit at the only time he'll ever need to (MYLO). Like literally every fucking one else is town for pushing wile or marv, but somehow I'm not when me and jat are clearly the two persons who have been the ones most early / vocal about the scum lynched so far. You people need to wake the fuck up. You're talking about "we need to lynch person X because otherwise it's harder to play out the MYLO". YOU GUYS SHOULDN'T BE THINKING OF GETTING TO THE FUCKING MYLO IN THE FIRST PLACE. WE SHOULD LYNCH SCUM NOW AND BE FUCKING DONE WITH IT. | ||
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 amdred*cough* and get this game finished tonight. | ||
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But that's irrelevant, I did it and I'm very confident you're town also. What I want is that every single one of you stops being stupid and thinking about optimal mylo situations and just end the game tonight with me voting for Damdred. I honestly don't understand all the waffling here. The mindset to play mafia when you have mislynches left is not "How do we play this out as long as possible to get into the best possible mylo/lylo situation", it's "kill the fucking scum with full force, now." If for some reason you're wrong in the latter case, you still get another shot. If you just waffle about killing townies to create a better endgame scenario, you have less shots at killing scum because you're effectively handing them free mislynches. | ||
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Going to eat w/ my grandmother but back in 30 mins tops. Vote damdred. You've agreed the case is good, or at least reasonable enough. Vote to lynch scum and win, not to get rid of players you dislike. | ||
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Or if you're not up for taking responsibility, join me in voting Damdred for today's lynch. | ||
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On September 26 2015 01:52 Palmar wrote: I am in no way certain geript is scum, it's just by far the most likely. Seriously Palmar, step it up if you want to keep your townread. If you're town, why would you be content of not putting more effort and trying to solve the game instead of letting it go on? Sure, geript leads the vote at the moment and it may be the result you prefer, but why aren't you trying harder convincing others about it? It feels like your attitude is just "meh, if I'm wrong I'll deal with it tomorrow, a mislynch isn't a big deal." Like I honestly don't see why you're not trying to convince me or ritoky to go on geript if you truly think we should be lynching him today. Why do you think damdred is town so strongly? Have you even taken a look at any of what I've posted against him? Like fuck, if you're town then play like one and don't make this harder than this has to be. You're making me doubt my read on you. I don't see why you'd assume that I haven't read everything that has been going on when I'm here and actively participating. I'm not trying to throw dirt on you, I'm saying that if you're town, you should be more interested in solving and ending the game. And I'm asking you to step it up, because I believe you're town. But you keep replying with a lack of interest as long as geript is getting lynched. He's at 2 votes for fuck sake, you can't seriously think he's about to get lynched if you're not going to do more about it. And I'm honestly wondering and calling you out why you're not trying to do something about it. Vote Damdred if you're not able to defend him after reading my case. | ||
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On September 26 2015 02:06 Palmar wrote: Hell, if damdred is mafia, his optimal play (if possible) is to defend geript and lynch ceph, shoot me, then let ritoky and geript tinfoil lynch you. Just please look at this Palmar. If you look at this objectively, you'd see this is exactly what he's been doing for most of this day. He's been defending geript and talking about his townread on him all the time and saying he shouldn't be lynched. Earlier in the day (and the previous cycles), he's been trying to set me up for a mislynch for quite a decent while already, downplaying and trying to discredit most of the things I've been saying. Now I've been solid to the extent he hasn't really been able to do that, so he's had to just sit down and watch instead of being able to go for a strong push on me, there isn't anything he could do that on because I'm that clearly way more town for a player from an objective perspective. Like how is him sitting around and saying "I think geript is town", when you people aren't changing your minds about it productive? Like I've said multiple times now to everyone, the focus should be on getting your scumread lynched. Which is what damdred already admit he's not doing. And he's not doing it now either. Don't you agree that for a scumdred, having a towngeript lynch happen while he opposes it is a fairly good position? He's not able to get the mislynch on me anymore, so that's his best possible play left. Key point: He doesn't care who gets lynched, he "cares" about who doesn't get lynched. That alone should tell you how much of a mafia play he's doing. If geript gets lynched today, and if he flips town, it means he has pretty much any/all options open for D5. It doesn't matter who he ends up on as long as it's not himself. HE DOES NOT NEED TO GET ANYONE LYNCHED, HE NEEDS TO AVOID GETTING LYNCHED IF HE IS SCUM. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HE IS DOING. Just please believe me on this one and vote for Damdred. | ||
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I might be wrong. You could also be wrong. Everyone is wrong sometimes. I'm more confident than you are that I'm right, and I've made case to back it up. You haven't pushed for your target in the sense that I have. If you're as sure about geript being mafia as I am about damdred being mafia, you should show it with your actions, which you aren't. At the moment it's more about why you're not willing to vote damdred over geript. For what I can see, these are the reasons: 1) You prefer to stick with your opinion that the Wile thing Damdred pointed out is more likely to come from a townDred than a scumDred. 2) I already proved how the actions you talked about make him more likely mafia than town. 3) Even if you happen to be wrong about damdred and he is scum, it doesn't make you a terrible or a bad player by any extent (which is what you seem to think of as an issue). Unless you're willing to show the confidence you have in your geript read as I do with my Damdred read, you should believe in me (or if not me, in all the points I've posted that point out how Damdred is scum). Otherwise you should be going about more strongly about getting geript killed. I've done everything I can to present my reasoning for Damdred being scum. There's just simply nothing more for me to provide, except to try and talk you over to vote for him to get him lynched, which is exactly what I'm doing right now. I want to win this game, and I firmly believe it's over as a town win if we lynch damdred today. But I can't do it alone no matter how sure I am, I need your votes to make it happen. | ||
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I didn't need to put this amount of effort into getting marv lynched because he just rolled over. D2 was a freebie. Day 1 I tried but I didn't have enough content to make a case as strong as I can now to get wile killed, and marv was off the list and would've just cluttered the eod1 up and caused chaos instead. | ||
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Just please think well as you make your decision. I'm confident that my case is the best case around, and people haven't argued against it either. If everyone agrees it's a good case, then there isn't really any reason to not vote accordingly. I'm playing this game to win, I'm not playing this game to not lose. I want to lynch scum today and win today, and this is the best I can do about it today. I know that it can be irritating to think about losing to a possibly scum geript or a possibly scum jat because you dislike their play or whatever, but think about it objectively and look at how strong my case is. Let's lynch Damdred and end this tonight. I believe in you fellow townies. | ||
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Please believe me and lynch scum with me ;_; | ||
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Sorry I wasn't any better, or sorry that you all didn't believe me z_z | ||
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Currently my logic says I should be voting for Damdred, and this is what I mostly support as well, for reasons given previously. My gut feeling on the other hand is Palmar, and if it had been around 95/5 in favour of lynching Damdred before I'm sitting at around 80/20 currently, making me really hesitate to vote yet. I tried to reason the nightkill, but it makes sense from both perspectives. Palmar PoV: He ignored me trying to convince him yesterday to some extent. I'm not saying he didn't provide any reasoning for doing so, but it wasn't as solid as it could've been, and left me with a feeling of "I'm just going to do what I want / what I need", rather than "I listened to you but I just don't agree enough to follow your suggestion" Jat kill makes sense from a palmar pov as jat was already to some extent suspicious of him, even if not much, whereas the remainder of us alive had him pegged as a very strong townread. So he'd eliminate the one likely to go after him the most, and keep two viable targets around. What makes me especially suspect this is the fact that even yesterday, he didn't really properly disagree with my case, but he still seemed fairly defensive of Damdred. And the first thing he does today is point out that I need to get killed "but I'll look into filters just in case". With the amount of reasoning he's provided for me as mafia, I'm calling complete bullshit on going through filters and just naming me for the sake of naming me. Whether that's a town palmar not giving a fuck or scum Palmar rolling with agenda, I'm not entirely sure. The thing is, there aren't really many logical holes in his play, because he hasn't heavily committed to anything. He's around to give his opinion, ask something a bit on so on, but at no point has he had to take extremely firm stances toward anything, nor has he been pushed for it because his play on a general level has still seemed town-like even without extreme committing. And the thing is, I can perfectly see this play coming from a scum Palmar, even if I do feel it's more likely to be a town Palmar. But there's nothing in his filter that makes me think "scum Palmar would never ever do this" either. Also Palmar's reads have been shit this game, and while everyone has bad games and is very wrong every now and then, I wouldn't expect a player with his experience to be this wrong about so many players, given how many other players picked up on things he did not. (Knowing that jat was town helps me in this regard as well, since I feel much more confident about having picked up on marv / Wile for the correct reasons, instead of just having been lucky and arriving at the right conclusion with bad logic, as I was really unsure if jat was so correct because of his own merit, or if he had the knowledge while being mafia.) Then there's Damdred. Jat kill is not as optimal from his point of view, but it still supports him in certain ways. For example, jat was one of the players last day who seemed the most ready to go on Damdred after reading my case. Also, seeing how Palmar didn't feel like co-operating with me at all, he could easily make the conclusion that keeping Palmar around is a fair chance of having someone to oppose me and create extra wifom, considering that if the vote becomes a 2-2, it's enough if he has just one person to support him. Palmar's actions today make me lean more scum on him before, as it's pretty much exactly what I'd expect from him if he's scum. While damdred on the other hand is also making a play that I'd expect from scum (upping effort as he survived last lynch, trying to seem as townie as possible), i feel some genuinity from all the small posts he makes pointing out things, even if all of them aren't good at all. (Also seriously, I've said this way too many times by now, why the fuck do you try to make anything out of my meta with my last games being more than 2+ years old, and by the way you worded your post you seem to be saying "Ceph is playing a little bit differently than last game he was town in, so he must be scum now", which is absolutely fucking retarded.) If you are that interested in trying to figure me out with meta (which you by the way, never ever will), you could read all my games from the start and get into the conclusion that my play both as scum and town have an extremely wide range both regarding content, activity, and the genius/retardedness of my actions. Logic is telling me to stick with Damdred. My gut feeling is telling me to go with Palmar. I'm really not sure at this point, and I hope any extra posts either of you will write will help me decide correctly. I'll also be traveling back tomorrow and won't be home until around an hour before lynch deadline at most, but once I arrive I'll be around until we lynch whoever we end up lynching, so don't you dare to lynch me for not being around or "fucking off" while I'm not able to participate. I saw damdred had some questions pointed at me, so I'll reply those in a short manner before going to check out the red moon eclipse thing and then going to sleep. | ||
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On September 27 2015 12:37 Damdred wrote: Ceph when you return, why do you vote wile but later on when talking to rayn tell him if wile comes back and answers it will probably tilt your read? And you seem so defeated with the wile lynch before even really pushing it? 1) Because obviously when someone addresses questions I point at them, it is likely to affect my read on them in a way or another. Could cause me to lean more town on them, more scum or them, or not change it either way. Tilt = Changing it slightly in either direction 2) Not really at first, but when I'm one of the mislynch wagons, and I believe there's at least one more mislynch wagon that I'm trying to avoid (Moosy), and no-one seems to give a fuck about what I say even after repeating myself, there's only so long you can stay optimistic about trying to get something done. I didn't have the thread presence to take control of where the lynch was going. I did not have as much material to push Wile as I had to push you last cycle. There were more players that I would've had to convince, and I had to ensure my own survival as well. It ended up with me just having to try and say what I thought of the situation and hope someone listens to me, and that time my voice didn't carry enough, thanks to everyone that thought I'm scummy because I wasn't around for the middle of the D1 cycle. (Fucking great logic, confirmt scum for not being around when you want me to) On September 27 2015 12:41 Damdred wrote: This post and a following one is so weird, it almost feels like coaching/reminding to do something. I don't know can you explain the few posts in your filter here when your talking to wile ceph and you don't really bring uo the questions you were asking him earlier? I don't really see any follow up on them If I'm not mistaken, by this point I didn't have much confidence in Wile lynch happening at all (30 minutes left, I had been around for a while but people didn't vote for him at all even for a moment), so I just pointed out how an Onegu lynch is useless at that point and telling what he should be doing. (After all, he could have been a townie even if I was suspicious of him at that point). If I want to give tips to a scumbuddy, I do that in the QT. I don't really see any coaching or purely scum-oriented reminding in what you just quoted. I told him the options of the day's lynch, that I'm sure the whole thread would've agreed with, and pointed out there's a deadline in which you have to vote. I can also honestly admit that after being around for a while, trying to push my opinions but nothing happening, I was starting to get more concerned about my own ass than ensuring a scum lynch. (Marv wasn't going to happen, and Wile didn't get traction), so at that point I doubt me questioning him further about it would've done much. In hindsight it might've been worth a try and something I should've pushed harder, but I'm confident I still would not have been able to make a change in the D1 lynch. As for calling my reaction "fake", do you have any idea how disheartening it felt after giving my all and more to try and get you lynched, everyone including you agreeing that the case is solid, then still not fucking joining me in my quest to get you lynched? Like people agreed and couldn't refute the logic behind the case, but they go "we're just gonna lynch geript because fuck geript". I was so emotionally invested at the end of the day, by the contrast of how hard I pushed for you last cycle compared to the rest of my game it should be more than obvious I gave it my all to try and get you lynched last cycle. And people agreed with my reasoning. They couldn't refute it. But they didn't follow and mislynched. It's super disheartening to see that happen. I'm still disappointed in how that turned out. Also an additional point about Palmar which makes me feel bad about him even more, look at how much he's just repeating "i'll just check the filters later". He's said that for so fucking many times in this game now. I remember my first newbie game which I was scum in, and after some shenanigans I had a basically "confirmed town" status. I just rode with it, delaying all the analysis I was supposed to make on my scumbuddy (because everyone is a viable option in lylo), because I was confident they would not call me out for it early enough and we'd end the game before they would be able to do anything about it. And thus it happened, even with me delaying and delaying (I did eventually deliver), it was long enough to keep the atmosphere questionable / waiting for my insight / not progressing the thread or solving the situation any further. And that's exactly what Palmar is doing right now. And has been doing for a fair while now. I still think he didn't give much of a fuck about yesterday at all, and seeing him continue that style today is just really edging me. Guts say Palmar, logic says Damdred. I'm not confident enough to make a decision, but you can be damn sure I could lynch either of you by the end of this daycycle. | ||
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Short ver since I happened to see your post just before leaving: Want to show him I'm not afraid of voting for him and considering him a candidate for today's lynch seriously, because I'm sure that you already know more than well enough that I'm ready vote for you as is without additional reasoning. Also because I want to see his reaction considering 2 votes can cause someone to get lynched at this point, I'm extremely curious if he'll vote or if he'll hold his vote. I have my own guess about what's going to happen regarding that. Also palmar is basically not confirmed town to me currently, I thought my post made that fairly clear. If I was to take nothing but his posts into account purely, I'd arrive to the conclusions that there aren't any "huge flaws" in his play, but as I said, is lack of heavier commitment and experience makes it very possible for him to hold it up for a long game like that without making a bigger slip. (And again, as I already mentioned, being wrong on so many accords where other players have been pinning down scum much better, yet instantly being ready to go for me at the start of the day cycle while being wishy about me last night, could even say avoiding me to some extent...) Once I'm back I can post for a little while, after that I will be not available until a bit before deadline (As explained before, will be traveling and spending the day with grandparents) | ||
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Other than that, I can't naturally be around the time with varying things in life. I also prefer to concentrate on the game when I have proper time to dive deeper into it and concentrate, rather than joining in for multiple short moments and reading 5 posts every now and then and saying how my mind has changed in 15 minutes and 5 points. If you have the time and the activity required for that, then do so by all means (although I still dislike when people post too often because in those cases there's always so many posts that are absolutely irrelevant.) I mean if you check the timestamps, you can see I took around 4-5 hours if I recall correctly, just to properly delve into all filters of the remaining relevant players on D3. I recall checking just for fun, and I ended up at a value of approximately 20 seconds spent per post, if not a bit more. I like to actually think about the game, rather than just skim by and take each post as they come. The picture as a whole and the connections between posts and players are usually more interesting and telling. But that's just how I enjoy my mafia. Sometimes I'm more active, sometimes I'm less active, but I always aim to adjust the level of effort required depending on what needs to be done with the time I have available. | ||
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Can you try to clarify to me how your point #3 is in your favour? I really don't see how possibly not bussing makes you any more town than bussing. Why would anyone go for a cred bus if they don't need it? | ||
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He seemed to like delaying reading filters of all of yesterday, and today as well, not to mention while based on his posts he doesn't seem to have the best overall grasp of my / damdred's filter, at the start of the day he sure seemed confident about what he wanted to do..? Like I have no doubt that he'll show up and post something proper eventually, because he knows more than well enough he will get lynched for it if he doesn't. It's kinda annoying that I probably won't be seeing what he has to say until just before deadline but I guess it can't be helped. | ||
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On September 28 2015 13:25 Damdred wrote: Anyway my question earlier wasn't about your read now but rather your read yesterday leading to today. You had palmar as pretty hard town then me and geript towards the bottom. I'm not really sure how I wasn't clear enough. I had pegged geript as a small chance of being scum, but I was extremely confident that you're the last scum. Last day I was also extremely confident Palmar is town, because I thought that even with the reasons I've pointed out today, it'd be extremely unlikely for him to be scum. I was fully prepared to just give you hell today but given the night kill (wifom yes, but still I believe it is more likely to come from Palmar), and his continuance from the attitude of late D4, + his reaction at the start of D5, showing he's completely fine with lynching me without hesitation... like those are things you can't just ignore as much as I want to be sure about my case and read on you last cycle. I still do think logically it is much more likely that you are scum, but the feeling I get from Palmar's play combined with knowing that it's perfectly within Palmar's reach to play like this as scum makes me have to seriously consider that as an option and push it accordingly. If we assume a situation where you're town and Palmar is scum, and I had gone for this last day with the attitude of "I don't give a fuck about anything I will hardtunnel Damdred until the end", then the game would be 100% lost before the day even started. I'm just considering all possibilities and doing my best to arrive at the conclusion to stop this retarded throw which began with yesterday's geript lynch. | ||
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I'm the only one (except Moosy) who was trying to get Wile lynched D1. Yes, I ended up voting jat because it wasn't happening. So did you and Palmar. D2 irrelevant D3 irrelevant D4 you voted for jat (town flip), and Palmar voted for geript (town flip), I voted for you (unknown so far). So if anything, Palmar has the worst votes, and I have the best ones. If you consider what the goal of the game as town is, at least. But of course it means nothing if you pull the "Ceph doublebus card" and think Palmar is just a shit townie (which he according to himself, is not at all, but he has only voted for townies outside of the free scum lynch and marv rolling over?) I'd like to point out that you were considering that jat would doublebus as well, when he claimed he sure as hell wouldn't do that. Now apply the same logic on me, except that I ALSO voted for Wile D1. Like if I'm scum, do you honestly think my aim is to eliminate my own team as the first thing in the game? | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
Players that moved off me at some point: Koshi (town), marv (scum), palmar (???) So.... if Palmar is scum, that means I can't be scum, and there were two scum trying to get me killed at first. If I am scum, it means that in the most convoluted scenario ever, marv (with absolutely no fucking thread presence at all) moved off me and alone caused me to not get lynched? Like no, just no. I'm not even going to bother to argue this further. As for initially voting not mattering, maybe it doesn't for those players that use it as a tool of pressure and change it 5 times during D1. Go look at how many times I voted during D1. Yes, twice. On Wile, and changed only to jat towards end because Wile was not happening and I still considered jat an option back then. Like you can paint it to look bad all you want, but I'd appreciate if you'd try to be a bit more objective. As for the marv bus, sure it's not a bus, because trying to push marv at eod1 would've been a clusterfuck and caused even more chaos for the vote, which is such a fucking townie thing to do. D2 = Irrelevant. D3, I wasn't around earlier and posted my shit anyway when I could have just not done that. And during the whole game since I called out marv, I kept mentioning "I still want to lynch marv", when you kept asking me. But sure, not a bus at all. Especially because I pushed SO FUCKING MANY TOWNIES MEANWHILE. Like just please, think about it for one second. It's not that hard to grasp. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
Fucking mvp scumduo, having a contest who gets the other killed? Especially continuing to do so after Wile is dead? I'm really starting to get frustrated with your line of thought here, sorry. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
Even now you're saying you haven't properly read my and Damdred's filters which shows how absolutely baffling your approach to the lylo is. I can more than well admit at this point it does seem I was wrong on Damdred, because you're being so obvious right now. Your bigger post is a textbook scum!Ceph play. It's exactly what I do when I'm scum. You make a case where any ambigious facts are painted as "This is probably the only thing that could be looked in his favour", you ignore all the obvious statements and information that is favourable even though they've been posted so many times it should be clear as day (But not to you, because you don't even fucking read the filters properly, because you're that confident about not needing to), then raising the most convoluted ideas of all time about a point to make it suspicious. Like, I'm scum because I managed to peg onegu as town? Not to mention the multiple instances of "There are clearly more ways for this to be viewed favourably towards Ceph, but I'm going to raise the one and only extremely unlikely possibility which makes him look worse, and make it look like it's the only and obvious possibility." It infuriates me so much to see you do exactly what I do as scum and I don't want you to get away with that. Why the fuck would I concentrate on defending a townie that is barely getting any traction at all and in no way a serious lynch candidate? What the fuck does my town-read on a player that died N1 to a vigshot matter in the remainder of the game? It's the most irrelevant thing in my filter you could be interested in. You say that "if you were Mafia, you would've been 100% content with me lynching Damdred and rolling with it." No, you would never ever have sat on your ass and gone "Oh well, I guess I was wrong / Ceph is right and we'll lynch Damdred today." You know I would have called you out for that even for how sure I was about Dam, because you know that even if I can push someone very hard, I don't blindly tunnel into someone until they die. So obviously you'd go for a more convoluted play, especially as you could use me picking up on you as a point against me, and knowing that you have the higher cred of us two makes that play a no-brainer for you to take. I know how calmly and how often you've rolled well in endgame scenarios as scum. And you knew that only me or jat would pick up on you that hard, but leaving me alive is significantly easier of an 1v1 for you than going vs jat. Like you've had damdred town all game since the start, and you still claim you've just read the first few pages of his filter. It's like you saw his defense for Wile and decided "I'll just think he's town for the whole game based on this", which is just absurd. You wouldn't lock onto a townread that hard because of such a minor thing if you were town. Not to the extent that you're not considering him an option at 1 mislynch nor at LYLO. You keep talking about how I delayed my marv read, when I have multiple times pointed out already why that is the case, and you know it if you read my filter as you claimed to. Yet you ignore all of those times and just pick out the worst you can find. I've said multiple times that I stopped and didn't start pushing marv with what I had on him up to that point at eod1 because rayn was telling me it's not fruitful to do so at that point, which I agreed with, because there was no way marv was going to get lynched D1, and spamming the thread with my marv read to create more chaos at that point, as my cred alone at that point would never, ever have gotten him lynched that day, would've been absolutely pointless and just given scum more control over the mislynch of their choice. I've also explained multiple times that N1 I did not feel the need to participate because I was going to live through regardless, D2 we had self-claimed Wile by the time I was around, I was not going to die N2 with how much conftown there was around, and I posted my case on D3 when I came around, even if the lynch seemed to be locked at that point. And if I hadn't posted? You would've called even more bullshit on me. It's like, if I didn't post it at all and just voted, I'd be still getting shit about being a pure sheep, and when I do, I get called out for trying to cred. I don't need to get any extra cred for the marv lynch. I know I'm not the main cause who made it happen, but what I've said and what is true that I've been correct about him since the start, and shown that opinion to others very clearly as well, constantly reminding of my intent of wanting to lynch marv. That is something you can't deny no matter how many things you want to ignore. Yeah, I've mentioned multiple times I like to bus as mafia. So do many other players. The thing which me and jat pointed out multiple times (which you again, decide to just fucking ignore), is that while we'd both be completely fine with bussing, we aren't retarded enough to play this game with the goal of "Kill all my scumbuddies before going for town". And that's what you're proposing right now. That I'd go for Wile + marv since the start of the game, with the amount of cred I had at the start of the game? You're not that stupid Palmar. You just have to say that because you're the dirty fucking scum here. You saw how jat flipped town. Go figure which is more likely, that I, who not also had extremely similar timing and reads with jat regarding scum + voted and tried to push Wile on D1, is going flip scum? It's not happening. I've pointed out enough how stupid of a case that is, and you know it. There's absolutely no way you're not scum with your read progress and painted case towards me. And this is not OMGUS, even if I know that you will try to paint it as such. Today will be simple rit & dam, you vote for Palmar, or you lose the game. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
It feels like you're taunting me because you're so sure you can get away with it. I just don't want to lose a won game in this manner, even if you've objectively looking played a very good scumgame. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
I understand more than well enough if you want to respect Palmar's play for that to be unlikely in your opinion, but do think this: If you hold him that high in regard, would he as town have voted jat d1, got his geript mislynch d4, and now push me the way he is doing? Not to mention you can't disagree he hasn't exactly been the cause of correct lynches happening, which if you respect Palmar's ability of play, you should be expecting that to a decent extent at least if you assume he's town. Are you going to hang on those minor points and deduce he's not scum because it would be unlikely for a scum!Palmar to do that, or are you going to take into account similar points regarding town!Palmar that he should've achieved/done but hasn't? Think of it as a whole. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On September 29 2015 04:54 Palmar wrote: Nothing, literally nothing I wrote was to discredit you. I simply brought up reasons why I think you're mafia. Feel free to respond with reasons as to why I am wrong. I did bring up the reasons. You can't deny you're not trying to discredit me, when you ignore the reasons I've posted several, several times already, bringing up points that I've adressed multiple times again and again. But you keep ignoring those. You're not making your case objectively at all, you're making it from a "Ceph is scum" mindset. As in, you're only picking up any point you can twist against me, and ignoring any point in my favour. (And again, ignoring the fact I've addressed most of your points multiple times, but you keep bringing them up again while not regarding my defense towards those at all.) On September 29 2015 04:54 Palmar wrote: I don't lie about what I read and what I didn't read. If I read part of damdred's filter and most of yours and reach a conclusion based on that, my time is better spent arguing for that conclusion. And how are your conclusions based on imperfect information any useful? The more you ignore of the big picture the more likely you are wrong. You can't deny that. And you'd care more about that if you were town, because as already shown, you've been wrong in this game as much as you'd like to trust yourself. If you truly wanted town to win, you'd put a proper effort in re-evaluating things after how yesterday went. But you're not doing so. On September 29 2015 04:54 Palmar wrote: I don't ignore anything, you literally went awol for 70+ hours when the marv thing was happening and you've been trying to claim credit for that lynch. You deserve none. Again, instead of yelling, try to point out what I ignored. And yes I read filters. Stop trying to act like I don't. No one in this game has read every filter word for word. And this also where you're painting things. I have not claimed I was the reason marv got lynched. I had my part in it as a voter just as anyone else. I've pointed out multiple times (among other things you intentionally keep ignoring), that even while I wasn't the main reason marv got lynched, I've been correct on him and pointed towards him, as well as making it clear I want to lynch him way before almost everyone else in this game (with the exception of jat), and I've stuck to that read for the whole game since I picked up upon it. If I don't deserve "any credit" for being correct on marv, then you sure as fuck don't deserve it the slightest bit either. On September 29 2015 04:54 Palmar wrote: Because it's a magical read. How about you just explain why you townread him instead of whining about me talking about it. There's only one faction in the game that has magical reads  Like all the townreads you've never bothered to explain? Yeah, I guess you're scum then Or your extraordinary reasoning about how you're correct on someone. "It's a town that I didn't lynch." Of course you wouldn't be lynching all the townies, you're shooting half of them. You can't claim being "correct on a townread" when you didn't lynch someone who was never a lynch target (re: scott). On September 29 2015 04:54 Palmar wrote: Give me 3 examples of this. I don't believe they exist. I'm not a particularly good scum player. My general strategy is to buy 2-3 days and then hope I've left no traces to my team (or go for a big play such as having a teammate shoot me). And yes, I absolutely would've done that. Don't have the time to dig up on old games for quotes at this point, but even in voice mafia not too long ago when you were scum with me in the same team and we two others got out of it early on, you almost managed to solocarry it through, only losing at lylo. So don't say you're not capable of that. You've done it before. And you had no traces onto your team then either, as you don't have now. On September 29 2015 04:54 Palmar wrote: If you think I don't make townreads like that based on one little thing then you don't know me at all. And it's not just that. He came out of the gate swinging (which is very unusual for scum). You yourself even called him out on it on day 1 (hey look! I read!). I also liked the way he approached the geript defense. You might be able to make initial townreads based on small things, but you would not stick to something like that for a whole game. On September 29 2015 04:54 Palmar wrote: If you're town Ceph, your focus should be on convincing me to lynch damdred, not antagonizing me please. I'm not antagonizing you. You're the last scum remaining, and to win I have to get to you lynched no matter what. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
While most of his posts weren't very useful (which could be said for many others), he had a few reasonable posts which pointed towards him actually trying to think about the game, which made me lean town on him early on. If you expect something magical and more accurate, you're stupid. With his amount of posts and content, there's not really much to go by with. I was correct on him, it doesn't make me mafia if others weren't pegging him as town. Like seriously, you should see how many times you've called me mafia this game for being "too correct". It's fucking absurd. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
I had no intention of wanting to 1v1 you, but with how you pushed your "case" on me, I just don't see how you could not be scum. And if I want to win, I have to lynch scum. Thus I have no other option than try and get you lynched. If I was mafia, I could've concentrated on pushing Dam much more than I have. But I'm going with what I believe to be correct. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
Whew. No wonder none of you three weren't more concerned at this point. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
As in there are specific actions that point towards a scum!Palmar play rather than a town!Palmar play. @Damdred: At that point I was more concerned about if I'm being too suspicious of Palmar and wifoming myself. As in, I was leaning towards Palmar more and more but you were still a viable option. Couldn't really make it clearer toward either way until Palmar showed up and posted, because the key thing for me was how Palmar would go about his "proper play" of today. (As in when he actually shows up and makes content). Short ver: I did consider it a fair possibility you might be scum at that point still, but I was leaning towards Palmar more and more as our conversation progressed earlier. | ||
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Finland1934 Posts
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Finland1934 Posts
On September 29 2015 05:49 ritoky wrote: Assuming you have read his filter, give me 3 examples of why he is scum before yesterday. Like I have said, I also don't understand why you think palmar's case is unreasonable because it is literally just quotes of your play, accurate characterizations, and him explaining why he thinks that is mafia. Like he could be wrong on it making you mafia, but factually his case is fine. Hence why I am having trouble grasping why you dropped a read you desperately wanted everyone to sheep to take a 1v1 me bro stance. 1) I did not drop a read that I wanted people to sheep. I truly believed Damdred was the last remaining scum, and accordingly wanted to end the game yesterday. Didn't end up happening, of course I'd have to be careful and re-evaluate with it being LYLO. 2) I didn't say everything about Palmar's case is unreasonable, but the way he presents it is unreasonable. He has some valid points yes, but at least half of those are things I have addressed so fucking many times already that I'm losing count, and it's starting to irritate me to keep repeating the same shit over and over again when it's already there for everyone to see. (Which, if he has read my filter as he has claimed to, would already know) 3) I'm not taking a 1v1 stance because I wanted to, but the fact is that I consider Palmar the last remaining scum, and I believe he's not pushing the cases on me with a pure motive. What do you expect me to do? Start talking about damdred? No, I have to push for the scum to get lynched. I want to win this game, and it just so happens that I have to fight Palmar for it, as he's currently pushing me and I'm pushing him. As I pointed out before, I don't believe there are very specific things that point toward Palmar being scum earlier in the game. It's more about how differently he started pushing cases D4/D5 compared to his attitude D1-D3. D1-D3 sure, he's fairly active, posts opinions, asks a bit of something every now and then, but as I said before, he does not heavily commit to anything. Which also gives him way more room and options to play with. And because no-one called him out for it because his content was reasonable enough to believe he's town without further pushing, he never did. Like I can go look through his filter for posts and point out specific posts that are likely to come from scum Palmar, but as I admitted before his D1-D3 play is very solid because he hasn't had to heavily commit. Most of his posts could come from either alignment and as a whole they feel consistent enough which is exactly the reason why me nor anyone else hasn't considered him a valid lynch target so far. I also feel that Palmar has been concentrating on the wrong things too much in hindsight as I already pointed out as well. I explained how it's weird that things that other town players who could easily be argued to have less mafia experience than he does, picked up upon multiple things he did not. I don't feel that Palmar ever was very correct nor pushed mafia during D1-D3. It's more of a "I'd expect better performance from him", thing, which the D4-D5 play intensifies. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On September 29 2015 05:58 Palmar wrote: ceph still waiting for "all these townreads I never explained" Don't have the time to go through your filter and point out specific posts but I am very sure you never provided any proper reasoning for Koshi being town (as in the same sense as my Onegu read), and just ignored him since he's not worth your time. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
Sorry if you took it as if most of your townreads wouldn't have been talked about, didn't mean to come off that way. Just pointed out they weren't all completely valid either. In any case, we're about to run out of time. Lynch Palmar or lose the game. | ||
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Finland1934 Posts
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Just... fucking town. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
I think my later contributions should've been enough to prove my activity level early on wasn't really an issue but.. yeah. Just gotta try and improve more! | ||
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