EPTTL Mafia LXXII: Gaiden 2
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On August 25 2015 05:18 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Hi. /in /confirm o_O wb | ||
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On August 26 2015 09:45 Trfel wrote: Generally, "yay" implies excitement or happiness. But this is boxerfred's only post so far. Were he actually excited or happy, I would have expected him to make more than one post (or at least comment on something). Anyway, hello. First to tryhard, only one to miss the sarcasm, then proceeds to talk about something else anyway, and rsoultin doesn't mention this (Trfel whisperer?). Pretty out of line with the rest of the thread at that moment. I'm surprised nobody else picked up on this. I do cause the last two times I remember him doing that were when he caught GB on D1 and as mafia in Titanic something. In case I lack better options I'll sheep him and if he's wrong lynch him. | ||
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On August 26 2015 10:48 Trfel wrote: To clarify: I just don't understand why the bolded sentence is included. Assuming that you are town, saying that you like most of the people who have posted but refusing to specify which ones doesn't accomplish anything. To me it feels like you needed to add an additional comment, but didn't want to commit to townreading everyone who posted or to any other suspicions. On August 26 2015 13:21 Trfel wrote: Family comes first, sorry. I'll be more active in maybe another hour and a half, if you're still awake then. Otherwise, I'm interested to see what Palmar has to say about marvellosity. What marv said until the last post: On August 26 2015 07:25 marvellosity wrote: heya On August 26 2015 08:50 marvellosity wrote: this is delightful. Speaking about additional comments with no basis, Trfel makes it into the candidates for the D1 lynch. | ||
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On August 27 2015 00:55 WaveofShadow wrote: ##unvote Should have just said marv/Palmar dominated game. Which is fine I suppose since they're both extremely likely to be town at this point. On what basis? | ||
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On August 27 2015 01:03 justanothertownie wrote: Watch out this could make you the day1 lynch. Only if marv wants me to be. Otherwise you have no power here. Also why. | ||
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On August 27 2015 01:07 justanothertownie wrote: Because I made the exact same argument and somehow everyone is pushing me as the lynch for it. I'm notorious for snapping at things before reading the thread. Who is pushing you for that argument exactly? | ||
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On August 27 2015 01:22 MoosyDoosy wrote: im in turmoil rite now. tbh im torn between sheeping u and rsoul or re-evaluating things. i think im going to re-evaluate things tbh. Wave, one more question. rsoul said that Trfel asking Palmar for thoughts on marv was not strange per argument that Palmar had been able to read marv in the past like that. But marv's two posts were literally "heya" and "this is delightful". Do you think rsoul's explanation is good and that Trfel's question was valid or do you think otherwise? Why are you torn if the points on Trfel make sense to you? They are the only reason this wagon got started, then some other stuff added on top that's entirely subjective. | ||
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On August 26 2015 22:47 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Palmar doesn't actually think JAT is mafia. I think he just wants to see who will sheep his flaccid case on the matter, and then call them mafia. For this reason, Palmar is town. Of course now I've ruined Palmar's plan. Soz This could actually be a stroke of genius. | ||
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On August 27 2015 10:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: It's really stupid. When he posted it in the thread --in the moment-- it felt like VE knew that JAT was town, and he was attempting to appeal to town by assuring them he wasn't voting him. Either that or he just didn't want to justify his position on JAT and wanted to put an end to the questioning. Looking back, it doesn't look like that. I was curious if anyone else had felt it Why doesn't it look like that? To me it looks like VE did put an end to the questioning actually, by saying "whatevs i wont vote him" so scenario 2 seems fitting, not stupid. I don't think that's alignment indicative but for you it would be? | ||
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Do you have any idea why Palmar calls you confirmed town hero? | ||
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On August 27 2015 18:49 marvellosity wrote: i have no idea who you're asking that, but it feels like the kind of thing you should be presenting yourself. Wave should be presenting it, I was mostly hoping you would acknowledge it as an issue worth noting. | ||
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On August 27 2015 18:53 marvellosity wrote: if I want to note something, I bring it up. How have you not learnt this after the 60+ games I've played? I don't know, I just know that I now have the urge to walk away from the monitor and launch kerbals into space until this conversation dissipates from my head. | ||
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What's alarming is that the leaders of Jat's wagon aren't really here to reconsider with all this new information, I'm especially expecting Palmar to reconsider things, given marv's timing of the vote I'd expect him to be quite sure about his decision already, so I'm curious on that front too. I feel like Trfel has been really stiff in his play so far, contrary to the things he did as town like claiming scum at SoD he has been feeling very artificial this game. Palmar for some reason believes he's town, I want to see it. ##Vote Trfel | ||
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On August 28 2015 04:41 WaveofShadow wrote: 'Cause I read an old scumgame of his and realized the way he has been acting in this game isn't necessarily indicative of him being town like I originally thought. Pretty null for me atm but his quickhop off of me didn't look great so scummier side atm. Did you read what JAT wrote? It's a good point that it feels like he's trying to be on the right side of things. | ||
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On August 28 2015 04:46 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh wait a minute. I forgot to comment on this. When you posted this I HADN'T started to scumread CC. Where did you get this from? You asked people to look at him and said something about not impressed about his case, so I thought it was the case from reading between the lines. | ||
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On August 28 2015 04:51 MoosyDoosy wrote: When does day end again. It's in the votecounts. | ||
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On August 28 2015 04:52 WaveofShadow wrote: I think all I literally said there is 'not impressed' and then commented on nitpicking. Not quite sure where you got the scumread from, and from your posting you seem to suspect me pretty heavily starting from there...? Typically I'll ask people to look at my scumreads, not my townreads and if a TR of mine posts a case on me I won't spend time on mocking him and just keep doing my thing instead. So doesn't make much sense to me that you would act that way about a TR of yours. | ||
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On August 27 2015 01:40 WaveofShadow wrote: Rsoul!! Hi!!! Hi!!!!!!! Let's play so I can be not mad at you anymore. Talk to me about stuff. Thoughts on Cheesecake? Moosy? | ||
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On August 28 2015 05:01 marvellosity wrote: the thing is, although him promising to play doesn't look good for hopeless, he really is so bloody hopeless that he might do it as town too He was like that in storm as well (as mafia), I don't know why he signs up for games tbh. In fact Trfel suddenly voting him out of all the options gives me the flashbacks. They were teammates in that game. | ||
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On August 27 2015 17:59 Trfel wrote: Reads from Trfel! + Show Spoiler [Pointless Fluff] + Yes, the section of my post marked "Pointless Fluff" is entirely necessary. You must read it. I've been listening to this song a lot over the past few days. I like it a lot. This one too. They're good songs, listen to them. It'll improve your scumhunting. Anyway, I'm kind of sad that I'm mostly able to play when most people are sleeping. How boring. So I'll just make a fancy list post. Town Palmar + Show Spoiler + I don't have a very good record of reading Palmar in the past. But I'm still pretty confident that Palmar is town here for the way he's been driven and focused. He's provided insightful comments and I like his push on justanothertownie. His tone also feels relaxed. I know this doesn't make him town, as he is capable of having a relaxed tone as mafia, but in this game his tone is most natural when he's giving reads on (arguably) harder-to-read players, which feels much harder to fake than normal relaxed tone. marvellosity + Show Spoiler + Marvellosity is definitely capable of tricking me, but I feel he's likely town here. If he isn't, it should be more clear in a few days, anyway. Marvellosity feels more driven here than as mafia in Assassination Mafia, where he played well enough to avoid being lynched and have some thread presence, but was not above suspicion. Given how much he enjoys playing mafia, I wouldn't really expect him to increase his effort compared to that game. Town Lean MoosyDoosy + Show Spoiler + On August 26 2015 22:43 MoosyDoosy wrote: Yeah this. I don't really see much on JAT. If he's mafia, he'll still be mafia later in the day anyway. I think we should focus on Trfel rite now. On August 26 2015 22:46 MoosyDoosy wrote: These posts don't really make sense. Why does he want to talk about me (Trfel), when all he wants is an answer to my question? That's not something he can get while I'm not present. He seems to realize that discussing me at this time doesn't help with anything, and doesn't mention me for quite some time.I'd still like an answer to why he asked for an opinion on marv when there was literally almost nothing that marv had posted. I feel like it's getting punted to the side while people are trying to kill JAT. I don't find his interactions with WaveofShadow scummy. But this post: On August 26 2015 23:45 MoosyDoosy wrote: is all wrong. The majority of WaveofShadow's posts at this point were jokes. He never called rsoultin out, and jokes can't really be seen as having a direct manner. The only things he directly committed to are finding scum and voting for marvellosity (which clearly wasn't a hard commitment, as expected). This post doesn't make much sense. I would like an explanation from MoosyDoosy (tone doesn't align with direct manner and calling out rsoultin when the posts are jokes).His willingness to call out rsoul and his direct manner when he posts. tone reads basically Tone seems very relaxed and seems to show a town mindset. In general, his thought process and reads match and are sensible. KelsierSC + Show Spoiler + The downside is that KelsierSC is quite good as mafia. He showed this in Gaiden 1. I like his questioning to MoosyDoosy about his townread of WaveofShadow, but he drops it before reaching a real conclusion based on this. I'm fine with this read for now, anyway. Mr. Cheesecake + Show Spoiler + I'm sleepy. A lot of it's tone, and I don't feel like his reads are too constructed/clean/correct. Though this is a weak read. Null rsoultin + Show Spoiler + I refuse to be wrong on rsoultin. I can accomplish that by not giving a read. (Plus I'm sleepy, basically always think rsoultin is town, and don't think that rsoultin is a good lynch today even if I found a few things that made me suspicious)  Mafia Lean VisceraEyes + Show Spoiler + First he votes for WaveofShadow, and then decides to change his vote to MoosyDoosy based on how MoosyDoosy kept talking to WaveofShadow. On August 27 2015 00:34 VisceraEyes wrote: This isn't a convincing case at all. VisceraEyes starts out by saying that he thinks that MoosyDoosy is pocketing WaveofShadow, but this is reasonable from town, but he gets a bad feeling anyway. Then he says that he can see something that can be considered towny may be able to come from a mafia perspective. And then he says it's better than voting for someone who is AFK.Okay so I filtered Moosy, and the reason I thought he was one of the Wave pushers is because of the sheer number of times he mentions Wave's name, but it's in the context of "I want to hear from Wave" or "Game so hard w/o Wave" etc. Based on this, I think it's actually more likely that Wave is town and Moosy is like, appealing to him or something. Trying to slip him in his pocket. Only problem with that is that he and Wave are like, TLLOLOTDT buddies, so it's not unreasonable to think that he's doing this as town....I just get a really bad feeling off Moosy. The flip on marv. Ummmmmm.....I can see that from a mafia perspective. Especially if he's not super aware of Marv's meta, maybe his partners were like "WHOA BUDDY, BETTER TURN THAT SHIT AROUND" after he posted about lynching marv. Marv's right though, in a vacuum it seems townie. Eeehhhhhhh....I like it better than an AFK Wave vote anyway. Certainly better than a JAT vote. ##Unvote ##Vote: MoosyDoosy Which results in a vote on MoosyDoosy. VisceraEyes doesn't seem convinced by his own case. And he's downplaying his earlier vote on WaveofShadow, which felt really out of place anyway. I don't understand why he voted for WaveofShadow in the first place. The strength he places in his WaveofShadow read seems to vary a lot: On August 27 2015 00:10 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Vote: WaveofShadow Beyond that, Moosy is kinda not taking a side, which I find super strange, and there are several people who have yet to even post. On August 27 2015 00:34 VisceraEyes wrote: [case on MoosyDoosy] Eeehhhhhhh....I like it better than an AFK Wave vote anyway. Certainly better than a JAT vote. ##Unvote ##Vote: MoosyDoosy On August 27 2015 00:41 VisceraEyes wrote: I didn't like Wave's entrance, worst in the thread besides marv's. Then he disappeared which I find to be extremely out of character for Wave. I'm interested to hear why you think I'm focusing around him so much though, I've spent WAY more posts trying to oppose a JAT lynch and appealing to marv and Palmar. On August 27 2015 02:01 VisceraEyes wrote: Wait wait wait, have you even READ my posts? I've had nearly an IDENTICAL thought process as you have based on your posts, and you're not ruling me out? Are you fucking mafia Wave?!?!? VisceraEyes transitions from voting for WaveofShadow to seemingly being surprised and not having considered that WaveofShadow could be mafia. Hopeless1der + Show Spoiler + He generally doesn't play as mafia. He was mafia last game, didn't play, and died. This game, he said he would play, confirmed, and then hasn't posted anything yet. justanothertownie + Show Spoiler + Not going to repeat everything that's been mentioned about him. But I find it very hard to get a read on him because it seems like justanothertownie is a player who is very self-confident and prides himself in always being right. Thus, when people disagree with him and push him all game, I can see him getting caught up arguing with them when it clearly isn't going anywhere, I can see him constantly insulting and throwing scum on people he later says are probably town, I can see him sort of playing like this. In the end, I'm torn. I think that his play is objectively bad, but I'm not sure if that makes him scum here. The biggest problem I have with him is that he simply isn't pushing his reads. Here's justanothertownie's filter with only the read progression (only including the main scum reads, excluding all of the stuff to rsoultin/Palmar due to previously mentioned reasons)
What I don't see is an actual push. He's said the same point about me (Trfel) many times (saying it's one of the best things in the thread), and people have disagreed. But he hasn't said much about the rest of my play. He hasn't commented on a single thing I've done being towny, but he doesn't seem convinced that anything I've done outside of that one post makes me scum. I don't see him really pushing WaveofShadow, either. He said that WaveofShadow might be the first mafia joining the push [on himself], but never said more (other than agreeing with Mr. Cheesecake's posts about him). Justanothertownie hasn't seemed very motivated at trying to convince people or push one of his scumreads. He hasn't even voted yet. It almost feels like he's too frustrated to lead an actual push himself, and is throwing some suspicion and waiting to vote with whatever people like. Which is a mafia-motivated mindset. Not making much progress on WaveofShadow, going to just go to bed. I don't really feel like I want to lynch justanothertownie right now, though that could change. Also, it's funny how nicely my reads list matches the player list XD He sheeped his town lean over marv/Palmar on his scumlean, and he didn't even mention me previously. He had a total of 3 options here and he chose to vote for me on a whim without even mentioning me in his big post. | ||
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My decision to include wave into the lynchables isn't just cause of a "narrative" (good way to call an assumption I made which you initially didn't answer), but also cause of above's post. This is still the biggest problem I have with Wave. He talks about anything besides me but votes me. We will see later that this is a reoccurring theme. Which is also one of the reasons Trfel is mafia. On August 28 2015 05:17 marvellosity wrote: Vivax, what exactly is the game you're referring to with hopeless? Trfel posted a link to it as well, tropical storm mini. We lynched hopeless D1 or 2 I think, then Trfel, then rso conceded. | ||
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On August 28 2015 05:24 WaveofShadow wrote: When did he do this? Also BF is now taunting us to lynch him. I did this for two games in a really accentuated manner, then I just proceeded to lower my activity for the first half of D1 in most games. Since then I've been able to not take off like a rocket since the start on D1 without getting lynched. | ||
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On August 28 2015 05:26 marvellosity wrote: right vivax, but he actually posted there :/ 3 or 4 posts when I was pushing ruxxar yeh, then maybe some minimalistic posts at EoD. Doesn't seem much different from this game, he's even being dickish in both. The problem is I still can't tell for sure what he is, I have always hated the way he plays, if you can call it that way. | ||
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On August 28 2015 04:34 KelsierSC wrote: well you're here now and you are being a fucking retard Where's kelsier? He's just wasting his vote atm. Same as CC. A lot of talk but little behind it if his best option is to attempt shenannies on me and then take his leave. | ||
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On August 28 2015 05:32 deconduo wrote: Is there any reason to lynch BF over hopeless? Hopeless has been worse on every count as far as I can tell. Do explain in detail, we need to consolidate. Can I warm you up for a Trfel lynch? BF and hopeless feel more craphshooty than him. | ||
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On August 28 2015 05:33 rsoultin wrote: be still i haven't read and i imagine you finally did shit or people wouldn't be flailing like madmen on that note, i'm not feeling a vivax lynch today ^^ hi vivax Hi! You're not scumreading Trfel at the moment, right? | ||
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ninjad. In fact I hoped you'd answer this cause it probably means the truffle is mafia given you've been wrong on each other in the last games I remember you having opposite alignments in. | ||
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On August 28 2015 05:41 KelsierSC wrote: JAt isn't the lynch i don't understand votes still on him I think hopeless is a good lynch , boxerfred is fine too decon seemed ok when he came in but his weird taunting of JAT and mindless questions means i'd be ok lynching him rsoultin why aren't we lynching vivax? The question is why would you given that I'm actually starting to play now. I've been arguing with the guy you're voting for and what I've read so far is more or less "fuck BF" and "why not vivax", so that makes me question what's behind your WoS scumread. | ||
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On August 28 2015 05:45 KelsierSC wrote: i was asking rsoultin because she apparently has a good read on you and I don't none of that has any relevance to my WoS scumread at all but nice job The relevance is that right now there's basically no wagon to speak of and I figured you'd be more interested in getting people to consolidate, or do that yourself than to ask about a read on me. | ||
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On August 28 2015 06:16 rsoultin wrote: okay okay okay everyone give three people they'd lynch and if you're super adamant sell your lynch boxerfred for the really weird one read out in the stratosphere + being completely useless beyond what he ever is as town hopeless mostly just for consolidation sake cause i'm really not sure he couldn't do this as town, though condor has a point on the whole rng...reads a large portion of the thread...then sticks to rng vote without giving much on his read through and cc (partially poe, partially on a whim given guts and a half-scanned post from jat lol ><) Boxer isn't voting and if he ninjavotes he's an easy catch on D2. Hopeless feels like a shot in the dark. CC I would have lynched, I think Jat summed it up nicely AND the fact he seems to have his reads sorted out but then resorts to shenannies on me, however the thing from moosy he brought up and the way moosy unlurked and started going nuts gives me pause on this. I'd like that sorted out soon. | ||
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On August 28 2015 06:30 MoosyDoosy wrote: mmm...rsoul could i convince u to do a switch onto trfel? Dude why did you vote CC? It didn't seem like the shitty series of votes that came up when you got confronted with that. It's like you did that only to make seem your vote on CC not serious. | ||
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On August 28 2015 06:38 VisceraEyes wrote: I'M TOTALLY DOWN WITH A TRFEL LYNCH, ANYONE WHO IS DOWN SAY SO NOW I was down before BF did that shit. Trfel can have another day. | ||
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On August 28 2015 06:59 Palmar wrote: take your pick Vivax WoS JAT Deconduo + 1 guy I missed? You still think JAT is mafia? | ||
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It only makes you look worse cause you usually read me right in the majority of games. | ||
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On August 28 2015 23:31 VisceraEyes wrote: Why? He's universally townread, he can do whatever the fuck he wants. I'm literally the only person saying Palmar could be mafia besides you and YOU are his main target. ftr I'm also suspicious of Palmar until I see him lynching a mafia, and if the mafia was jat I'll still be suspicious of him | ||
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On August 26 2015 22:47 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Palmar doesn't actually think JAT is mafia. I think he just wants to see who will sheep his flaccid case on the matter, and then call them mafia. For this reason, Palmar is town. Of course now I've ruined Palmar's plan. Soz On August 26 2015 22:50 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Then Palmar is mafia for tunneling on a terrible read. Looky looky here! What happened to your palmar is mafia conditional? At the very least you should have been trying to determine if he's actually doing what your theory suggested and this late in the game he's still tunneling jat but you don't really seem to care. | ||
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On August 29 2015 04:33 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I can't figure out Palmar. I can't tell if he's just being bad town or mafia. It's quite that simple. "This late in the game?" It's night 1. Vivax, this is a lame post. You said literally he would be mafia and not bad town back then. This just looks like you backpedaling on what you said. You implied the entire jat tunnel was a reason in itself for somebody to be scum, marv said that Palmar doesn't do fake pushes, then you said "this means Palmar is mafia" (your former townread). Yet there is no sign of that being your belief throughout the rest of the filter. | ||
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On August 29 2015 05:02 KelsierSC wrote: he says palmar could be mafia a few times It's fairly clear he is uncertain of palmar and he repeated that just now what is this push? The way he atcs about Palmar is not what his post suggested he would act like, I'd have expected way more confidence from him based on what he said. | ||
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On August 29 2015 05:49 KelsierSC wrote: or i have reasons to town read you, good talk A recap of those reasons would be nice since marv is already going ham on CC with reasons that oppose your point of view. | ||
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On August 29 2015 06:16 justanothertownie wrote: I think this is going in circles by now and only helps CC if he is mafia. His explanation for his reads is totally viable and fine. The actual problem is that he is giving all these easy townreads in the first place and not necessarily his reasoning. ^ | ||
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On August 29 2015 06:22 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: "The actual problem is that he is giving all these easy townreads in the first place and not necessarily his reasoning" You are literally saying that I'm giving townreads, but I'm not giving the reasoning behind them. I said in my first post of the game that Palmar was town because he townread Rsoultin, and I said that Rsoultin was town because she was excited. Which brings you to what marv said. | ||
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Even if they were just a medic dodge it doesn't hurt to look into these three. | ||
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On August 29 2015 07:07 Trfel wrote: Assuming everyone is town, I would think that mafia would prioritize kills as follows: marvellosity rsoultin justanothertownie WaveofShadow Why isn't Palmar there? | ||
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CC hard townreads JAT. + Show Spoiler + On August 26 2015 22:15 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Jat is town because he didn't just fall over to Palmar's pressure. He defended his position on the Trfel read and called it the most relevant thing in the thread. But the same thing with Trfel left him with a "back and forth" on him, while for both me and jat it felt like it appeared to have more weight than just that. On the other hand for me it didn't feel like that alone is a reason to TR jat. Same for him. But certainly I did find it noteworthy that we all noticed the same thing, with CC acting in the most different way. My main point remains the way CC says "Then Palmar is mafia" without following up on it, I still can't get over that. On top of it, he said that roughly 1 hour after Palmar put Trfel into the town pile. If I then assume CC's perspective, I see Palmar dismissing my point about Trfel, townreading him for reasons I don't know, scumreading my townread, and calling him mafia if the push is not fake. Why not do anything about this afterwards? The followup is a big post on Wave instead when I would expect way more suspicion on Palmar given the opposing opinions and the way he said he would be mafia for pushing Jat in case he's srs. | ||
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On August 30 2015 01:49 Palmar wrote: Thi is why you don't get to complain, there is no reason to take you seriously while you think this. If you are masons you should claim at least tomorrow cause while today we can decide between hopeless and CC mostly, tomorrow it'd be nice to be able to take you from the lynch pool, cause both of you aren't in the clear in this game. Not for me at least. | ||
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On August 30 2015 02:24 Trfel wrote: Please tell me why you do not consider me confirmed town. Unless you claimed something we can verify I see no reason to. Rso was killed after scumreading you and CC. But I already talked about that. The point still stands that at the beginning of D1, you missed the sarcasm from a flipped townie, and CC being mafia with you would explain his behaviour in regards to you and Palmar. He was unsure on you but wouldn't really want to scumread a hypothetical town palmar that was defending you and ignoring him. | ||
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On August 30 2015 02:03 Palmar wrote: Vivax lacks a lot of his natural sass this game, I can't tell if it makes him mafia. I'm actually sickly atm, my neck lymph nodes are quite massively swollen, if it isn't better tomorrow I'll see the doc. That should explain why I'm not in the mood for going all out on everything today. | ||
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On August 30 2015 04:28 MoosyDoosy wrote: tbh, both kels and vivax are too hard to read this early which is why lynching into them is too risky. i would do it if there was harder evidence but there isn't. :/ unfortunately, wat marv says leaves us with hopeless/mr. cc. I'm not really hard to read. How do you get to this conclusion? Isn't this the first time we play together? Cause as far as I know it is and I don't know how you got to make this statement. What stands out to me with more relevance to the current wagon now is that Palmar got suddenly scumread by CC but I don't know why except that he says he's playing abysmally when in previous posts he kept repeating that he couldn't tell if he was bad town or mafia. So I would like to know what got him confident on his Palmar being scum theory, it feels like he only changed his opinion cause I accused him of not doing it. | ||
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The post from VE that hopeless brought up needs an answer from Trfel, I can't find any looking through his filter. And what WoS mentioned isn't entirely correct, but partially. Kelsier posted a case of his own of which the part about WoS reasons to go after JAT coincided with what CC said in his own case, but the points about WoS way of handling moosy are only mentioned by Kelsier as far as I see. + Show Spoiler + On August 27 2015 04:53 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: This post makes Wave scum. Specifically, the text in bold. Wave comes back to the thread to see the popular scum-candidate JAT sitting on a wagon driven by Palmar. His read takes no consideration for JAT's actions this game. In fact, he says he respects Palmar's play enough on day 1 to sheep him without regard. Wave claims that he has gained some confidence in his play. If wave truly has gained confidence in his play (I.E. reads), then why is he letting Palmar, who may very well be mafia or just plain wrong about JAT, decide the lynch for him? Wave is blindly assuming that Palmar is town and correct without A) Assessing the lynch candidates motivations / actions and B) Looking at Palmar's push in and of itself. He doesn't even quote a post by Palmar and agree with the reasons. ##Vote: Wave JAT hits the nail on the head here. Wave's defense against this is basically "I'm better than this", which I find lazy. Regardless, Wave still fails to situate why he thinks Palmar's case is good. When Wave extrapolates upon how Palmar plays, he admits that Palmar's early reads are 'just 'cause' and may/may not be accurate. How can Wave seriously think JAT is his top scumread / top vote for the day if he: 1) Has not evaluated JAT's actions, or explained why Palmar's case is good 2) Knows that Palmar's early reads are often 'just cause' 3) Is not sure of Palmar's alignment? It makes no sense to me. Palmar may have caught Wave as scum day 1 in another game and he respects him, but this course of action is scummy regardless of how you package it. It's incredibly convenient if JAT flips town, and then Wave can take no responsibility for the lynch. All I want you to answer @WaveofShadow: Why is Palmar's case good. Not Rsoultin's, or anyone else's, but Palmar's case. What does Palmar say that is convincing and makes the case against JAT generate a "fairly decent read"? On August 27 2015 21:20 KelsierSC wrote: Scum Wave - This comes down to a few points. One is his reentry to the thread saying oh yeh JAT is mafia but I can't get a further read because palmar is pushing him, it feels like trying to absolve himself of rseponsibility if the lynch is bad. The second point is how he tries to point out that moosy is pocketing him. he then wants to get moosy's thoughts and responds thusly. ok what did he make of all of moosy's actions? which is not true at all, Moosy had posted like a whole other page of stuff including changing his vote and giving a list of reads, feel like wave should be more invested than that. overall it just feels like he is happy to lynch JAT without commital whilst throwing suspicion at moosy. Right now I'm at a CC/Trfel/Kelsier/Palmar scum team based on their actions, the NKs and PoE. The NKs mostly make sense with a CC/Trfel/Kels scum team, but Palmar can also be mafia and the recent change of opinion on him by CC is explainable if they're a team, that's why I need an answer on that. Either that or CC changed opinion cause his read on Palmar not fleshing out before is part of the accusations. These are the people I'd lynch today with exception of Palmar, I actually hope he's town. VE and marv I'm mostly keeping on ice since I hope they likely will be proven to be mafia by not being killed in the future.Right now it's 8 to 3 so we got (tomorrow 6-3, the day after 4-3) 2 mislynches left until it's lylo. Moosy is also in my blind corner for now. I'll bother diving him later, derpy plays and strange behaviour yeah, but not sure if that makes him mafia. JAT gets a tentative townread for filter size but will have to re-evaluate if he stays alive. One thing that makes me paranoid here is that earlier in the game he tended to say I'm scum for his own reasons and now he mostly relies on what rsoultin said after Trfel asked him. So I'm curious to see how he would act if I ever were up for lynch, that justification sort of read like an excuse to not bother even though he should have an opinion. Hopeless and decon....meh. Hopeless is actually playing the game and even bringing up interesting things, ima go with a "let's see what happens" and a tentative town read. For decon I'll have to trust marv's check for the time being. If he's a GF we might lose the game, so I'll certainly try to judge him by his play if he stays alive for too long or we don't get to lynch a GF until then. That's where my head is at atm. | ||
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I think I'm wrong on someone here. | ||
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On August 31 2015 00:02 MoosyDoosy wrote: tbh I don't think Kels is Mafia. He has been very aggressive, but I don't know if you've been able to read it because it hasn't been directed at you. I'll have to take a look at this recent scum games and see exactly in which game he's "stepped it up" but I have a pretty solid townie tone read on him. Can you tell me where you got from that I'm hard to read? I'm actually pretty easy to read. | ||
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Cause being inactive on weekends is perfectly normal for him. Not sure if he mentioned this, but in case you didn't know, I told you. | ||
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Everyone besides I think Trfel, Kelsier and decon has shown interest into lynching you so if you agree with Trfel's logic, shouldn't you also be agreeing on these people being likely mafia? If you are town it also is a generally stupid assumption to make that mafia isn't interested in lynching you. | ||
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On August 31 2015 01:10 MoosyDoosy wrote: Vivax why did you drop your suspicion on Trfel earlier? You mean on EoD 1? Cause BF ninjavoted and moved up the priority list. I was also entertaining the thought that Trfel and Palmar might be masons cause of their strange reads on each other (Palmar calling trfel town hero and 95 % town when it didn't make sense to me), but only asked about it on D2 for obvious reasons. Now that Palmar said that they aren't, I'm not believing him if he says something else. Enough time has passed and if they're indeed both mafia then you can roll with the assumption that it can be a fakeclaim if he starts saying the opposite, even if risky, and Palmar doesn't mind risky plays (read guardians of the galaxy). | ||
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On August 31 2015 01:23 MoosyDoosy wrote: Vivax, do you think Palmar is town? I've already said that I don't. CC you will have to explain to me why you vote for me right after Trfel offers you a lifebelt in form of a case on me and a defense of you but when I'm around you start pushing suspicion on Palmar and Kelsier and even say that you think Kelsier is more likely scum when I'm entertaining that notion myself. Seems kinda contradictory to your intentions. | ||
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Moosy: On August 31 2015 00:25 MoosyDoosy wrote: I think that there is mafia between trfel/hopeless/cc Why shenanny on Palmar over hopeless when given the chance now? Was his post enough to replace your entire scumread on hopeless? | ||
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I don't know, I just know that it ends up in terrible lynches when half the town is afk. I have like a feeling of impending doom cause it's only us making the decision now and there's almost no feedback, which IS indicative that the wagon could be on town. I feel like yolo voting Palmar. | ||
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On August 31 2015 06:28 VisceraEyes wrote: Hi I'm here am I too late? No, just in time. CC acting townie as of late, Palmar acting like I don't know what and Kelsier heading for a modkill. We have to pick one. Trfel would probably be a good lynch too but CC doesn't wanna vote him, it'd need at least you, jat and moosy to lynch him. | ||
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On August 31 2015 06:33 VisceraEyes wrote: I could lynch Hopeless still, why no mention of Hopeless? Feels more like policy than anything else, his latest post wasn't even that bad, compared to palmar's performance. Screw that I'm yolo voting Palmar. | ||
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On August 31 2015 06:40 Trfel wrote: WE ARE NOT LYNCHING PALMAR We were about to lynch your townread but apparently that's not reason enough to start participating, while a Palmar lynch is? | ||
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On August 31 2015 06:45 Trfel wrote: His play does not fit a mafia motivation. It fits the motivation of town who is frustrated at being unable to find mafia and with his push going nowhere. Lynching Palmar over the weekend is really, really stupid. Give him another day to actually play. What push? The JAT push? The push on me? The push on hopeless? | ||
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I still think Trfel is town FAKECLAIM ALARM | ||
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If we let you get away with this and you're mafia we lose the game, we need to lynch Palmar to get rid of any doubt now given the many inconsistencies. | ||
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They all claimed scum. Kelsier Palmar Trfel ez game. | ||
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On August 31 2015 07:04 Trfel wrote: KelsierSC is basically confirmed mafia, great. don't think this will save you | ||
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On August 31 2015 07:05 Trfel wrote: Okay, fine, you got me. I'm mafia and that's why I know that Palmar is town. I roleclaimed mason because I thought I could pocket him for not only this game, but the next game too. Otherwise, Palmar is mafia with me and I didn't actually ask him if my plan was good or not. ![[image loading]](http://media.giphy.com/media/Vg0JstydL8HCg/giphy.gif) | ||
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On August 31 2015 20:10 justanothertownie wrote: It is irrelevant anyways. It would only reveal if at least one of you is town and VT instead of mason since this wouldn't prove if you are mason or mafia. This is a good plan and if it's within the rules it should be carried out. | ||
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There is no big game plan behind them keeping it secret except to make it look more authentic since if that were the case, they wouldn't come out with it during the night. Then there's to matter of Trfel talking to me and CC as if he knew we were town and in the next posts he starts posting cases on me, when he was already scumreading me before. I don't believe a thing these two say until a flip proves them to be what they claim to be. | ||
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On September 01 2015 02:58 justanothertownie wrote: What waffling and contradictions are you talking about exactly? Why wouldn't we have masons in the game? The EoD stuff where Trfel says one thing and Palmar the other. And as for not having masons, ima go into that later. | ||
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Ideally they would have either claimed it during the day and then steered the lynch where they wanted it to be making use of their confirmed until disproven status. Instead we see Palmar actually not giving a shit about who got lynched while claiming he wasn't a mason, and Trfel not giving a shit until Palmar was about to be lynched. They both agreed that CC was a bad lynch afterwards, yet Trfel only came out with information and posts when Palmar was threatened, not CC. This is more important for D4 or something cause tomorrow we're afk lynching Kelsier. One thing I'd be interested in is why he actually threw the game like that. The only way I see him making a play like that as town is by being able to save himself proving that he has a role with irrefutable evidence, and even then I'd be curious to know why he would ninja vote at all. And the only reason he'd do that as mafia is that he's convinced that his team can't win the game, cause it's an incredible dick move towards his teammates. There's also the chance he was just lazy. | ||
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##Vote: KSC I'll pay more attention to the game again after this guy is dead. | ||
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On September 01 2015 09:01 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Mafia are never going to put KP on you vivax. so if you're veteran or PGO idc plz claim. You're just going to get roleblocked anyway. Nah I'm not claiming at this point. I want another night to pass. So I pick the gtfo. | ||
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They were both all over Palmar for his hopeless vote but then voted the same guy regardless. CC at least can argue he had to save himself but for JAT I see no other justification. | ||
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On September 01 2015 10:46 MoosyDoosy wrote: -_- Vivax u think the kels is a mafia tho rite? That's super obvious from my posts. There's no reason to think otherwise. The last one I saw doing that shit was ritoky in guardians and he tried harder than kels afterwards. Kels being mafia is a lock in right now. | ||
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VE, Kels and somebody else are mafia. I'm not a trackable role. | ||
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On September 03 2015 03:06 justanothertownie wrote: Why are they masons though? Doesn't 4 blues seem too much for you? Cause there aren't 4 mafia doofus | ||
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On September 03 2015 03:07 justanothertownie wrote: Look Vivax, it doesn't make much sense to do what VE did as mafia. You will be lynched. It keeps Kelsier alive, so it MAKES sense. I'm either PGO or veteran and if Kelsier is the roleblocker they can kill me at night. | ||
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On April 02 2015 07:59 ritoky wrote: ##vote: fecalfeast On April 02 2015 08:04 Half the Sky wrote: Day 5: Current Vote Count Breshke (5) sicklucker, Fecalfeast (3): Breshke, ritoky (1): Toadesstern, Damdred (1): Fecalfeast Onegu (0): Currently, Breshke is set to be executed. Day 5 ends in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00). Reminder to make sure to unvote before voting, if you have already voted someone. Voting is mandatory and in this thread. You may NOT abstain. Posting after the deadline and prior to flip is subject to a modkill. D6: ritoky, as Nebula (Mafia Roleblocker), has been lynched. THERE IS NO WORLD WHERE TOWN NINJAVOTES WITHOUT POSTING PREVIOUSLY. | ||
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On September 03 2015 03:11 justanothertownie wrote: If they wanted to keep ksc alive he would probably just have played the game. But maybe they want to keep you alive because youvisited me and therefore are a role? Ok then compare how VE and Kelsier have been playing and I have been playing during the last day before Kelsier claimed scum. That alone points to me being town and them not being. | ||
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On September 03 2015 03:27 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Vivax if you are town you have nobody to blame but yourself. I specifically ASKED you to fully claim earlier in the day, but instead you chose the option of keeping it a secret for no reason. This gives me little cause to believe your blue claim, and you will die for it. Should you flip town, VE is confirmed mafia. Then, Kelsier dies. Then it's still final 3. I have a very good reason to keep my role a secret. It leaves mafia in the dark whether I'm just a PGO or a veteran who took bribes. | ||
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On September 03 2015 03:28 deconduo wrote: Hmm unless kelsier is mafia vig. That seems unlikely though. That would actually explain a setup where we have this mix of blues, cause if you mislynch today town loses tomorrow and that gives VE every reason to do what he did. | ||
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Why would we have another mislynch tomorrow then if mafia doesn't have a vig. | ||
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On September 03 2015 03:33 deconduo wrote: These two statements directly contradict each other. Of course cause if I don't say I'm not trackable they immediately think I'm veteran doofus | ||
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Ok I am veteran. I took bribes. I hoped they would shoot and RB me. And if you lynch me and there's a mafia vig which makes perfect sense with 2 masons and a veteran, and they probably also have a roleblocker, you lose the game tomorrow. | ||
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On September 03 2015 03:39 deconduo wrote: Yeah you are scum. If you took bribes you would know you could have visited JAT. I don't believe VE's claim in the slightest. There's a 50% chance that I'm not even a wandering townie, he tracked me out of everyone (instead of say Kelsier - missing motive to track me at all) and he only claimed after I claimed blue. The claim is purely agenda motivated. | ||
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On September 03 2015 03:40 Trfel wrote: What I don't understand is why you keep going back and forth on VisceraEyes' alignment. One moment you're convinced that he's scum because you aren't trackable, then you decide that VisceraEyes is town. I don't see this flip coming from town. I never said he could be town post claim. I'm 100 % convinced he's mafia. | ||
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It has to get into your thick heads that if you lynch me today and scum has a vig you lose tomorrow. If you lynch ANY town and scum has that role you lose the game. VE is going all in for precisely that reason. | ||
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On September 03 2015 03:46 justanothertownie wrote: No. Vivax hasn't tried to solve the game all day and now he is just trying to survive and fearmongering. Kelsier claimed scum, I didn't have to do shit today until VE claimed. | ||
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I soft I'm blue during the night, I claim I'm blue during the day, all is fine, we steer towards claimed scum Kelsier, I claimed blue as mafia for fuck knows what reason then. My scumbuddy VE claims I have a trackable role when I'm most likely not. Instead of just killing shitty Kelsier and try to win the game afterwards, for some reason my buds want to fuck up my claim and kill me instead of Kelsier. Also in doing that they kill themselves, both. You guys are into some serious tinfoil there. | ||
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On September 03 2015 03:55 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh wow, look at Vivax flop around. Vivax I'm town so I don't know what you're on about. You might be some sort of victim of circumstance here, but I don't see a world in which you don't die today. And going on and on about how confirmed mafia the town tracker is...well it's not helping your case son. Well played VE | ||
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On September 03 2015 04:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Yeah, you tried to throw scum on the masons because you knew you were blue. Now you are saying that masons + your role makes perfect sense. It seems that today logical thinking is turned off. With me being vet and marv being cop, it doesn't make sense for there to be two masons. BUT, with me being vet, VE claiming another role, and mafia most likely having a vigi to win the game after another mislynch, it makes sense for there to be two masons. | ||
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On September 03 2015 04:13 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: The world you are trying to push is that you are the vet, marv was the cop, and there are two masons. So the world only does not exist unless VE claims? That's way more plausible than the world of me/VE/Kelsier with VE bussing me before Kelsier when I would have been in a good spot as mafia. | ||
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On September 03 2015 04:14 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: It seems perfectly reasonable for a 1-shot cop, masons, and a vet even before VE claimed. There's no reason to assume mafia wouldn't have power roles. No it's not reasonable cause that's like 5 confirmed townies when the cop checks a townie, which wouldn't be balanced without a mafia vig who we didn't see act last night. | ||
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Thanks for the impeccable hosting BH. | ||
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On September 06 2015 19:03 Palmar wrote: VE played quite well for a stretch btw, impressive scumgame. He just got kinda screwed over by everyone randomly deciding to act like a supertownie at some point. Except that his tracker claim murdered me ... | ||
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On September 07 2015 04:19 Palmar wrote: I think I would have gotten you lynched anyway. The idea of Trfel being mafia was stuck in CC's head at the time, me being blue would have allowed me to push the fear that you and Trfel were mafia doing a play after KSC would have been lynched. I would further have pushed that notion by pointing out how you pushed me on that day instead of lynching the claimed scum KSC. What lost us the game is that we couldn't just proceed to lynch KSC and go on with the rest, me having claimed blue (either PGO or veteran) and VE doing something else, cause VE claimed tracker in his attempt to lynch Palmar and save KSC, but fact of the matter is that it ended up completely messing up my own plans mentioned above. I felt backstabbed by VE there cause I didn't see it coming. | ||
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I was all around sad we didn't manage to lynch Palmar instead of hopeless on D2. | ||
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