I'm not going to defend myself too much because clearly I was wrong on this. Sorry. I'd missed that if the Mafia were RBing Rels then they would have to visit him. Ugh. Still no result, fwiw.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

August 30 2015 23:20 GMT

#3680

On August 31 2015 08:06 JudgeJudy wrote:

Show nested quote +

Can everyone confirm that they didn't receive a mason with geript? Just want to make sure we don't need to worry about a scenario where ritoky was roleblocked, preventing his roleblock from going through.

I got nothing from geript.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

August 31 2015 00:06 GMT

#3682

So this time, I got no result PM. When I enquired I was told that all actions had been resolved. So I presume that means I was role-blocked again. Which makes me feel a lot better, since clearly the mafia had more confidence in my watcher-play than was warranted. Hah.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

August 31 2015 01:38 GMT

#3696

Okay so here's where I am. Ritoky has claimed a RB on geript, and claims he isn't Mafia because didn't deliver KP.

Either:

1. ritoky is town, confirming geript as town also. Continuing to assume the rayn wagon is pure, which I do, that means it is OWS.

2. ritoky is lying, and is therefore Mafia.

I'd rather lynch rut first, and I'll do a post tomorrow explaining why. But I'd be happy with OWS. I think both are scummy and I think everyone else has much better town cred.

One question I have - is it worth everyone now claiming their roles? There is the possibility that further claims serve to help confirm some of us to each other, possibly? Although since there's a RBer, that might not be the best idea. I guess you guys will have to decide for yourselves.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

August 31 2015 01:39 GMT

#3698

Before the inevitable ritoky/OWS flame, I will say that yes, I will re-read the other filters. And I will keep listening and interacting. But that's what I'm thinking right now.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

August 31 2015 01:41 GMT

#3701

On August 31 2015 10:38 ritoky wrote:
Important question to everyone but damdred: Do you think there's 1 or 2 alive?

1. If there are 2 it means that there was 5 Mafia, a traitor and a jester, alongside 14 town. Taking into account the jester and traitor lynch, that really doesn't leave town many mislynches.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

August 31 2015 21:25 GMT

#3808

@JJ I've been scum reading ritoky all game, I agree with everything you wrote and I 100% think we should lynch riotoky. I'm phone posting atm because I was away with friends all weekend.

Ritoky's response to you only further cements my read because he seems to misrepresent some of your key points (particularly viz the framing).

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 01 2015 08:17 GMT

#3861

Ritoky claims that he was role playing throughout days 1 and 2. Except that after his fifth or so post on d1, he claimed that his case on me was "serious". He is now having a go at JJ for his vote to lynch the Mafia Godfather, when he himself dodged that day entirely.

I am utterly convinced that ritoky is Mafia. I have thought his play has been scummy literally from the start of the game, and JJ's masterwork case says everything that I think far more eloquently than I ever could.

One more thing - his play so far this day has been to cast dirt around as much as possible, without really making a serious case on anyone. I have considered both JJ and TT, and I have rejected the possibility that either could be scum. Geript cannot, logically, be scum (based on the rit RB claim). Damdred is confirmed 3P. I haven't liked OWS' play this game. If ritoky isn't the scum, I think it's almost certainly him.

I don't see town ritoky getting this shrill about a possible mislynch. Like, however you slice it, JJ's case was unbelievably well thought through, logical and well written. I've read it three times and there are no illogical statements or untoward assumptions.

Also, this is Mafia people. At least one of the people in the game is 100% lying. Ritoky should know this well enough. His outrage sounds totally fake to me. He is the correct lynch and I beg you all to vote for him.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 01 2015 08:23 GMT

#3862

One other thing before I get to work - consider how many times ritoky has tried to shift the discussion to setup issues (whether or not Damdred is 3P, how many Mafia there are, etc). It's bizarre that he claims those things as attempts to solve the game, since in my limited experience they are exactly the tools that Mafia use to avoid scum hunting while also trying to look like they are contributing.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 01 2015 11:30 GMT

#3863

On August 30 2015 07:59 Tictock wrote:
Ok good, I was gunna be so mad if Rels faked that redcheck.

1 mafia left, who's gunna flip it?

Honestly if it's not KSC or Obi we are gunna have to do some hard rethinking tomorrow.

You all know what I think.

Wonder if Chez was in on mafia QT as traitor... meh prob doesn't matter.

@TT I've been through your filter and it seems that you were pretty much in the tank for an Obi lynch today. But you've ended up sort of going along with JJ's ritoky push. Yes, you did say just after that that you thought ritoky was scummy, but this jarred me a little bit going through your filter. It doesn't seem like you've made much of a concerted push on Obi today. Can you explain?

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 01 2015 11:40 GMT

#3864

@JJ Here's the thing bugging me about the ritoky case, regarding his RB claim.

The HTS RB completely makes sense. Given that I was tunnelling him so hard when nobody else really was at all, it's totally plausible that he guessed that I was tracking him/watching HTS, and so needed an excuse to go to HTS. Alternatively, he's just plain risk averse and wanted to cover his tracks in any event. HTS died n1 (well after rit's claim), so that was safe from a mafia pov.

However, he has also claimed RBs on three other people: Chez, Damdred and geript. Now Damdred can be explained away - as a confirmed third party, even if he did have a blockable action, a counter-claim from Damdred could easily be explained away. Besides, town were unlikely to ever lynch Damdred to confirm his role (ie whether it was anti-town or pro-town). I need to check geript's filter, but I think his was a claimed day action (day cop check on the person he votes for). So ritoky could have guessed that he would have no night action to block. But Chez? Chez wasn't in the mafia QT, as far as we know, so if they didn't know Chez was a traitor, RBing him without knowing his role was super dangerous. Like, if Chez flips town (and there's nothing to say rit would have known he wouldn't) then we auto lynch rit.

I'm going to quickly read through your case again to see if you covered this -- apologies if you did.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 01 2015 11:51 GMT

#3865

OTOH, the thing I find scummiest about his response to JJ's case is re the game setup. The fact is that, as far as I'm aware, nobody knows for sure how KP are delivered this game. HTS asked about KP delivery at the start of the game, and Onegu said "I'll get back to you". That's it. I don't see why town ritoky just blindly assumes the setup is the one that exonerates him. If I'm in ritoky's position, and I am *actually* town, my response to a watcher claiming to have seen me and only me visiting someone is "well, I know I'm town, so it must be the GF visiting. It could be that KP are delivered factionally as well, in which case the GF would always deliver them." Instead, he is absolutely certain that KP are delivered a certain way, and it's the way that benefits him.

Also also, I don't know that factional KP delivery makes sense given the GF role. If the GF is untrackable and unwatchable then does that not render mine and Waves' roles entirely pointless, more or less, until we manage to kill the GF? Also, we know that the GF's upgrade meant that he could make one of his mafia buddies also untrackable/unwatchable as well. I dunno why there would be any value in there being TWO untrackable/unwatchable mafia in a factional delivery game. Especially given that one of the flipped mafia was a PGO who wouldn't need to visit people.

IDK, I really want to hear others' thoughts on my post above re rit's claim of RBing Chez.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 01 2015 12:34 GMT

#3866

This is the time when Rels usually would have been on to banter with me. RIP my EUW buddy.

(

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 01 2015 12:35 GMT

#3867

Wow, that smiley went wrong.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 01 2015 13:25 GMT

#3870

@OWS Kind of need you to pull your socks up here and help out. If you're town, this is the meaty bit of the game. You can't coast by any more (if you're town) because everyone has to be up for consideration, and that most certainly includes you.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 01 2015 14:08 GMT

#3873

Didn't Ritoky claim RBer some time during d3? I'll have to check, but in those circumstances the Chez mason would have had to happen n2/d3 so that ritoky could then fake an RB claim on him. So for ritoky to be Mafia, you have to believe your scenario 2 (or that ritoky got waaaaaaaay lucky on fake RBing the traitor, or that he is a double RBer, or that there are two Mafia RBers). I don't see any particular problem with your scenario 2, but you previously said you did.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 01 2015 14:11 GMT

#3874

I think Rels checked Damdred n1 and got the 3P result.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 01 2015 14:13 GMT

#3875

Gonna go back through rit's defence and see if he made these points already.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts