Newbie Student Mafia XII

On July 11 2015 23:46 MoosyDoosy wrote:
We are all sheep.

On July 12 2015 01:49 TJHuggins wrote:
My initial reads so far is that i am town leaning on Fidei. I like the things he said in relation to spamming, and I think that him relating the perspective to a previous game where he was town feels like he's looking at the game from the perspective of a town. When he responded to HTS regarding talking about anti-spam being easy, he seems genuine. Or maybe it's just because I like his writing. No clue.

My initial scum read is Grokken. It's nothing all that strong but I'm getting a wierd feeling about the things he's posted. To me it feels like he is trying to find ways to participate and seem town by chiming in now and again but really has no clue what to write about.





I think that one sentence posts that appear to contribute to the game and don't really offer anything just kind of irk me the wrong way. I guess it's worth noting he did write that thing about Dota as well which was also one sentence but that's neither here nor there when it comes to the game I think. When I went back and read the post about him showing off his dota stats that actually reads to me a bit more towny now that I think about it, so not really sure.

just an initial read.

On July 11 2015 22:32 Fidei86 wrote:
@HTS I agree that it's easy to talk anti-spam. And it's also obviously possible to play a perfectly good scum game without either spamming or lurking. But my view is that if we build a good town atmosphere with all townies being active but not spammy, it makes it much harder for even good scum players to hide. If I start lurking or spamming, that'll be a good sign I'm Mafia. But since I'm town, I'll do my best to stick to my words.

One thing that irks me is that I know that you aren't the biggest fan of spam either. Obviously this thread is much more in danger of being too quiet than too loud, but I would have hoped you'd join me echoing my words. Why the change of heart? Or have you just got your game face on (which, admittedly, wouldn't be very alignment indicative..)

On July 12 2015 02:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Grokken's first post seems pretty innocuous to me, and even if there was something sinister behind it, reading someone at all in the first few posts creates poor conclusions, imo.

Second post there is sketchier to me, in that it seems serious in its attempts to prod the town, despite not actually bringing up any discussion that will lead to a conclusion. That's a little smelly to me. That said, it's tiny enough that it could fly either way.

Day 1 reads are all luck anyways :|

On July 12 2015 04:27 Half the Sky wrote:


On this quote itself, this could be self-consciousness (a scum tell) or it could be an earnest townie just wanting to play the game, but then again scum wouldn't make this so obvious. Newbie scum....ehhhh probably not. Probably a slight townlean, maybe I'm wrong, I don't know how MD played last game.

On July 12 2015 04:17 Half the Sky wrote:


I honestly didn't feel it needed repeating (it stood on its own) and just wanted to start seeing what I could get out of the thread. I definitely agree to discourage spam as much as possible but at the same time don't ignore the lurkers. Similarly as was already said, there are high volume posters that do play well as mafia. Sometimes you might also get a milder form of spam if you have too many conversational posters. I can't remember where I said this before but I've said it multiple times now - there's conversational and case based posting and inevitably some people are going to have longer filters if they do engage in long - even if useful - conversation.

That said I think either way if people keep things to the point, EBWOPs aside, spam really shouldn't be an issue. That said, this post by Grokken

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=129&topic_id=488742

was called into question and honestly I don't think this warrants a scum read - if he's scum, it's not going to be for this.

In the context of that entire conversation, there's nothing but sarcasm, to me it's just a cheeky post especially considering the "oh shit you got me" response Gandhi posted after that. The two of them (him and Gandhi) seem pretty carefree like they don't really care what people think of them, which actually warrant a town tell.

The second quote that was called into question -

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=8#148

First off - one liners aren't alignment indicative either way - like I said before someone might try to evaluate conversation as they have it. I don't think it's reasonable to scum read him largely because NHM hasn't been back to respond so how are you setting up the expectation already that he needs to follow up? There's nothing to follow up on.

I think Grokken is a townlean based on his first few posts, it is reasonable for a new player to question something that seems off or may warrant an explanation - and I agree it does.

I don't think TJ is being reasonable to set up the follow-up expectation when it's pretty clear where the expectation lies - the answer to that particular question. A haste to judgement is a scumlean (esp for a player I don't know).

On July 12 2015 05:51 n00bKing wrote:

Change things up in what way? Are you saying you want to vary your play? Or do you mean something else?

On July 12 2015 08:07 n00bKing wrote:

I could not think of any other way to read it. But I wanted to give you a chance to dig yourself out of that hole anyway, since "vary my play" would be a stupid answer.

You were town and you were widely townread, and you were night-killed on Night 2, after I had been night-killed on Night 1. Now you want to "change things up" and "make things interesting" by varying your play, so that people will NOT be able to townread you so easily? How is that good strategy, Moosy? If you're town, shouldn't you WANT your alignment to be evident again, as it was in that game?

You sound like you are pre-emptively making excuses for not matching your own town play. So that if someone like Sulfurus or Scott or myself says "Moosy is playing nothing like he did in the last game...where he was town" you'll be able to say "Well I already told you I was going to vary my play this time!"

See what I'm saying?

On July 12 2015 08:56 Fidei86 wrote:
You said about ten posts ago that you were going to be town-hunting at first. Now you're saying that you're scum-hunting. Which is it??

On July 12 2015 12:18 Half the Sky wrote:


You're not particularly answering the question. Maybe it might help if you answered the one I just posed.

On July 12 2015 12:39 Half the Sky wrote:


And what if town are on the wrong track? How do we know you aren't taking advantage of that as scum?

On July 12 2015 12:46 Half the Sky wrote:


I think in 18-19 hours' time let's see if you find the noose interesting.

##vote MoosyDoosy

On July 12 2015 21:18 WonnaPlay wrote:
So, unfortunately this started on a busy weekend for me, but here I am again.
As for my background in Mafia, I have none, but I have played "Werewolves of Miller's Hollow", which is similar I guess.

My initial thoughts are that there are some people who are actually trying to help the discussion so far and some people are just trying to create chaos.
In my opinion people who try to create chaos aren't playing happily for the village.

NHM : somehow votes really really early, without having a solid argument.

MoosyDoosy: Votes on NHM with the motto of sheep. I'm not particularly fond of sheep, becuse in that case it seems like you will vote with anyone, just so you don't get killed during the day, which seems conspicuous. He does seem to "try" to help, but voting on himself afterwards isn't really helpfull either.
My first impression on MD is that he is trying to create too much chaos, which is scumlike. But in the same time it seems like he is just trying to provoke alot of people, which is townlike i guess?

Scott : somehow says he has a townlead towards Fidei, but hasn't said anything since, nor did he do anything to explain his thoughts, which seems just really random.

TJHuggins : seems to be trying to find out more information on certain partys, which is better (imo) than spraying confusement.

HTS: seems to be really forward in his questions calling people onto their nonsense, which could be really strong mafia play, but for now it seems like he is legitimately hunting.

Ghandi : I don't really know what he's thinking, he seems to try to avoid policy lynches on the first day, which I can understand, but it could also just be easy targeting/avoiding death. I don't have experience with this game, but I doubt that "Day 1 reads are all luck anyways" is true.. I think you can really come to some sort of fruition about some people..

Kelsier : So far he has only spammed nonesense into this thread, which is confusing for everyone. I think mafia players like chaos in the game, so in this case Kelsier is doing a "good" thing, by being a bit active without doing anything to help the town at all.

Sulfurus : just randomly said he had the cop check, but I assume this is to get some reactions to it. Hasn't really said much since..

n00bking / grokken/ fidei: has actually tried to get more explanations / reactions out of people which is good for the village imo.

silentwarrior : really is kinda silent.. .

It's really hard to tell, especially since it is in the beginning of the game, but seeing that Kelsier has alot of experience and is only trying to create chaos, is worrying for me. Some others which seems untrustworthy aren't making a mess out of the rest of the town, so for me MoosyDoosy and Kelsier are the most dangerous at this moment..

On July 12 2015 13:07 Half the Sky wrote:
.......

If you're town you shouldn't be doing this.

What do you think on the most widely (not just me) discussed potential scum if you aren't? (scott/nydus/sulfurus)

On July 12 2015 22:07 KelsierSC wrote:


I will send out the message from my cabin but I see no reason to abandon my sanctuary to the "chaotic" game I created.

Groken and Wp look like scum so far . Terrible list posts early in the game.

On July 12 2015 22:43 WonnaPlay wrote:
"Sheep me, I'm good at this game" or "I act as scum and see if anyone bites, then I attack them" - Onegu Card?

So basically Kelsier is trying to get newer players to attack him, because he is sowing nonsense. To see if other people just blatantly follow those new players, which means that those followers or "sheep" are probably mafia players looking to get an easy kill?

If this is what he's doing, then I think that his posts make more sense indeed, however I think it's provoking the wrong reactions in a newbie game.

On July 13 2015 01:35 Fidei86 wrote:


Moosy if you aren't going to defend yourself, you're gonna get lynched. If you're town, it's your duty to defend yourself.

On July 13 2015 02:03 Fidei86 wrote:
Well there's been plenty said about you, and the thread is not that long. Care to respond to any of it?

On July 13 2015 02:00 n00bKing wrote:

Players may not vote for themselves. So the vote count posted on Page 12 is not completely accurate.

On July 13 2015 02:43 Fidei86 wrote:
So I'm sitting here thinking "n00b just made a big case on Moosy, then immediately defended him and now wants to lynch elsewhere - classic scum tell!". But then I thought about it and realised that my approach has been exactly the same. I want Moosy to engage, since everything we have on him at the moment is tonal, and could be bad/lazy town. Bleh.

On July 13 2015 03:32 Fidei86 wrote:
You're asking people to vote for you? You very rarely see town do that.

On July 13 2015 03:43 TJHuggins wrote:

Can you explain to me how I am supposed to differentiate "shitty townie" play from Mafia play? The way your posts are reading to me now it sounds like you are a mafia resigned to their fate. If that's not the case then what is your play here? Do you have anyone you think is mafia? Anyone that you think is town? Any reasons for those reads? Any reasoning for why you have been writing/acting like a 14 year old for the last 12 hours? I'm going to be seriously upset if you are lynched and flip town because all that I will be thinking is: "What the fuck?"

On July 13 2015 08:55 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Sorry about being useless/afk, small stuff that takes priority came up. From now on I have my full attention on the game, will drop in my current reads (spoilers; I don't trust Moose) later.

On July 13 2015 09:38 Half the Sky wrote:


LOL...

anyhow....if you are town, you are in a good position to tell us who the scummers - if any - were on your wagon. Who do you think they were?

On July 13 2015 10:09 silentwarrior wrote:


You can post like 1 minute before night ends. That way, mafia can't kill you for whatever you say, as they don't have time to react.

On July 13 2015 19:38 KelsierSC wrote:
sulfur's exit post saying that "4 people not voting means it doesn't count" indicates mafia is in the non votes who could have swayed it for him.

On July 14 2015 02:22 n00bKing wrote:

He's in an even BETTER position to tell us, if he's scum! :D

So you don't want to be night-killed? You only want to be mislynched?

Don't worry, there's no chance of the bad guys killing you, no matter what suspicions you want to share. You could name the other 2 mafia members, which one has which role, their social security numbers, and what dinner plans they have for tonight, and they still are not killing you.

On July 14 2015 08:11 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Note: I don't really think Moosy is mafia. I want him to help or get out.

On July 14 2015 09:04 Grokken wrote:
By the way Moosy, what happened to the post you were gonna make the last minute of night?

On July 14 2015 08:10 Fidei86 wrote:
I think that there is actually a fairly decent chance that Ghandi is scum here. Reasons:

1. His entire filter is filler and waffle. He defends Grokken, but then backtracks from giving a read.he promised to give his reads, then didn't.

2. He talks a bit about the difficulty of getting good reads in the first day, then says he wants to flush out lurkers but not vote for them.

3. He apologises for being inactive but then does nothing about it.

4. This is a bit of a stretch, but I think it makes most sense for a more experienced player to NK Kelsier. Assuming Mafia were scared off NKing HTS or n00b (both obvious medic saves), why go after Kelsier, unless you knew he was a strong player/knows he knows your meta.

5. The total lie he just told about TJH.

On July 14 2015 09:29 GhandiEAGLE wrote:

By essential information is that a blue claim? Or just something your saying.

Also in response to MD's most recent post, is there guarantee of an "experienced" mafia? I thought the roles were 100% randomized.

On July 13 2015 08:55 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Sorry about being useless/afk, small stuff that takes priority came up. From now on I have my full attention on the game, will drop in my current reads (spoilers; I don't trust Moose) later.

On July 15 2015 10:33 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I can. I thought about it more. I'd gone back and forth on it a few times, and that was one of those instances. I changed my mind on it after that long post before anyone else talked about it. I still don't have a strong pull on you on way or the other, though, which is why I didn't put you on my definitive town list last time I made a large post.

On July 16 2015 04:17 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I wouldn't have posted about Grokken if he wasn't the scummiest person on my list. Don't spin it as "just because I couldn't pick anyone else". There's nothing that I said that should make you discount the argument. I'm keeping my vote there for a reason.

On July 16 2015 07:24 Half the Sky wrote:
Assumptions - Sulfurus wagon was a pure wagon.

Starting point VCA

Day 1

Sulfurus(4): Half the Sky, Fidei86, Kelsier SC, Noobking <--------likely pure wagon
MoosyDoosy(3): Grokken, TJHuggins, Sulfurus
NydusHerMain (1): silentwarrior
Fidei86(1): NydusHerMain

Not Voting(4): WonnaPlay, scott31337, GhandiEAGLE. MoosyDoosy

Day 2 <4h to EoD

GhandiEAGLE(4): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior
TJHuggins(4): Ticktock, Noobking, MoosyDoosy, WonnaPlay
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE

Not Voting(2): scott31337, TJHuggins

Day 2 <40m to EoD

GhandiEAGLE(5): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay
TJHuggins(4): Noobking, MoosyDoosy, scott31337
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
scott31337 (1): Tictock

Not Voting(1): TJHuggins

On July 16 2015 07:30 Tictock wrote:


I never said any of the bolded line, think you misread something.

Well MD effectily wasted his vote D1 and now D2 ninja voted (and not in the voting thread mind you...) onto someone who confirmed town.

... ehh Thinking back on D1 your right Sulf did make that post where he basically said he didn't care if MD got lynched. I also get what you mean by his play, but that doesn't mean we should accept him continuing that level of play.

Still my point was that MD needs to start giving some real reads, because I'm not comfortable bringing him into late game with what we've seen from him thus far. I suppose we still have plenty of time before that's an issue though.

On July 16 2015 07:00 Onegu wrote:

Day 2 Final Vote Count

GhandiEAGLE(7): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay ,Ticktock, MoosyDoosy
TJHuggins(2): Noobking, scott31337
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE


Not Voting(1): , TJHuggins

Reminder Voting is done here.

It is mandatory to vote. Not doing so will result in a warning a second non vote will result in a modkill and action taken against you in the Mafia ban thread.

Currently GhandiEAGLE is set to be lynched with 7 votes.

Day 1 ends in


PLEASE REMEMBER THAT IT IS MANDATORY TO VOTE.

On July 16 2015 07:58 Half the Sky wrote:
Ugh, alright, revising the tables a THIRD time.....

On July 16 2015 08:16 TJHuggins wrote:
Tomorrow.

On July 16 2015 08:30 TJHuggins wrote:

I may die. But, considering a significant amount of people think that I am mafia (see the three players who voted on me this day), understandably so since I have been very inactive this day, I think it wouldn't be terrible for town if I did die. It will save me from potentially getting mislynched, and keep someone who is much more towny in the game.

So I will let the Mafia make the decision.

On July 16 2015 08:34 Tictock wrote:


TJ might be a good person for Medic to visit tonight...

Just sayin.

On July 16 2015 08:35 Tictock wrote:
I also brought back some swiss cheese if anyone is interested.

Mostly took home swishh Chocolate though...

On July 16 2015 09:58 n00bKing wrote:

Man, if only Ghandi had never made another post after I said this...lol

On July 16 2015 10:12 Grokken wrote:


Sure. I've been reading the thread, but I haven't posted much because I haven't had much to say. My only scumread day 2 was Ghandi. I've been reading filters and such, but haven't been able to find anything particularly scummy. HtS made a good case against TJH, but I felt my read towards Ghandi was stronger.

With Ghandi gone, I think TJH is the most likely to be scum. I don't see any reason to think HtS' case against him is any less relevant now than it was before. I don't understand why TicTock wants a medic to protect him. He is one of the more suspicious townie (if not mafia), and it seems more likely for mafia to target someone like HtS/Fidei/n00b. TicTock has been scumreading TJH, which makes me even more surprised to see him suggest TJH as a medic target.

On July 17 2015 10:15 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Also, @mod, please post "Day 3" on the voting thread....

On July 17 2015 10:41 Tictock wrote:
I'm still at work for a few more hours, so going to be a bit before I can get into much analyses or explain my reads in much detail.

Right now I'd most like to lynch Scott or SW, with Tj following somewhere behind them. I'm kinda giving TJ the benefit of the doubt atm, but he needs to step it up pretty fast if he wants to keep that benefit.

On July 18 2015 08:45 Tictock wrote:


You should just say what you want from him, if you wait till you both are around the thread at the same time... Well that may never even happen.

On July 18 2015 09:17 Tictock wrote:
Huh, just noticed this...



TJ made this vote about 2 hours ago.

On July 18 2015 22:26 Grokken wrote:
I don't think it makes sense for SW to get worked up about getting fake red checked, since I already counterclaimed. It's obvious that we're lynching TJH and not him. I'm not sure if that's enough reason for me to think he is mafia though. It would be very risky for TJH to fake a red check on SW because:

1. If the real cop waits until the next day to counterclaim, mafia loses.
2. If the real cop has already checked SW, mafia loses.

It's still not impossible of course, seeing how the mafia is in a terrible spot. You have to take risks when youre behind.


I was actually hesitating to counter claim. I didn't have a check on SW, so I didn't actually know if he was mafia or not. If he was town, I wouldn't have to counter claim at all, since town would figure out TJH is mafia after the mislynch. I would also get another check without risking a roleblock. The only way this would be bad is if I get night killed, but I don't think I was a high prio target for the mafia with the way I was posting. In the end I went with the safer play. Even after claiming, the only way we lose is if HtS, n00b, or Fidei is the last mafia. No need to go for the risky win when you can go for the safe win.

On July 19 2015 00:37 silentwarrior wrote:
Btw, who got roleblocked? Was it scott or wonnaplay?

On July 19 2015 07:18 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Ez trap Day 1 = clear win for town