• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:54
CEST 01:54
KST 08:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week4[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced6Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles6[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China10Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL70
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread We need to be discussing a new patch right now! Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Script to open stream directly using middle click
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Last Minute Live-Report Thread Resource! [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread The PlayStation 5 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Accidental Video Game Porn Archive Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 581 users

[D] BBCode Rules

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
Onegu
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States9699 Posts
June 23 2015 06:36 GMT
#1
For those of you who dont know there is a way to hide messages in BBCode. Quote this message and read it in the quoted form.

The question is should these be allowed in games? Recently it was used in a newbie and people had no idea what was going on.

My personal feelings are they shouldnt be in newbies, but are ok in normal games. We kinda went over it in the Newbie podcast tonight and I wanted to bring it up here.

Thoughts?

Some arguments are if it gets too popular then it is just a hassle to need to quote every post. I think depending on the post it is only more likely that town quotes it over scum and is a good way to hide claims.
Try TL Mafia!!!
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6052 Posts
June 23 2015 08:22 GMT
#2
Not sure about this. Think I'm more against it.

Its a fairly sneaky way to hide messages/claims. Though it seems like it would be rather hit and miss if what you've hidden is actually found.

Onegu might have a point that if you are careful about the post that you use this in it will make it more likely to be found by Town over Mafia but there is no way to be sure about that. Really just whoever quotes that post (and reads the quoted version, which doesn't always happen) first will find the message, which could be anyone.

It def would be frustrating if this became common since hitting quote on every post just to see if it has a hidden message like this is cumbersome to say the least.

Also while this sounds like a clever idea now, if it becomes more common then it's a pretty boring way to hide claims isn't it? It's not like leaving subtle clues for someone who is paying attn to piece together, it's just a little trick that once know isn't that impressive especially if everyone knows to look for it. + Show Spoiler +
A good analogy is Magic tricks. The first time you see a trick & learn how it's done it might blow your mind, but the 2nd or 3rd time? The "magic" is gone and your just playing along at that point.


Guess it comes down to being a niche thing to me. It's cool and clever the first few times but if it goes into the mainstream then if looses it's appeal. I'd rather see people be creative with their words to drop hints to their role if they want to do that, not rely on a mechanic that comes down to "Oh I clicked the right button and found the message."

Just my 2 cents.
I can take that responsibility.
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2015 09:37 GMT
#3
yeah, i don't like it much.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
KelsierSC
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United Kingdom10443 Posts
June 23 2015 09:42 GMT
#4
it's stupid as fuck

Zerg for Life
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16317 Posts
June 23 2015 10:58 GMT
#5
On June 23 2015 18:42 KelsierSC wrote:
it's stupid as fuck


boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
June 23 2015 10:58 GMT
#6
I'm not liking that.

a) it can be spotted very easily by chance
b) if everyone knows about it, finding out about those means quoting every single post has to be opened
c) if only a part of the players knows about it, it gives an unfair advantage.

Only scenario where I could imagine that to work is if a blue role sneaks in a claim. That would only work if scum players don't know about the BBCode issue or are lazy as fuck.

"It's cool and clever the first few times but if it goes into the mainstream then if looses it's appeal."
pretty much this!
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
June 23 2015 11:01 GMT
#7
I'm aware of this kind of thing and nobody uses it because it's pretty stupid. Even if it weren't stupid, hiding messages is unacceptable in a non pm game. I doubt any player would be do foolhardy as to try hiding secret messages in any game hosted by me.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
June 23 2015 13:20 GMT
#8
On June 23 2015 18:37 marvellosity wrote:
yeah, i don't like it much.

The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Artanis[Xp]
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
Netherlands12968 Posts
June 23 2015 13:24 GMT
#9
On June 23 2015 22:20 Half the Sky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2015 18:37 marvellosity wrote:
yeah, i don't like it much.


kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
June 23 2015 13:37 GMT
#10
When it comes to hidden messages, it's probably more effective to just weave a role claim or night action result within a post by using the last letter of each word or something along those lines.

If something like that is legal, then hiding a message in BBCode probably isn't all that different. I'd probably consider it lame/lazy, rather than actual cheating.

It's tough to draw a line between what type of hidden messages are allowed and what aren't.

For instance, if you can't hide a message in a url, can you post a picture that contains a message in 2pt font if you zoom in? Can you hide a message within a paragraph of text? Can you quote some song lyrics where the next passage contains the message that you'll refer to? Can you post a random phrase like "I'm like Sirius Black" and a few days later point out that the same actor portrayed Detective Gordon?

A few years back we had a discussion about encryption and breadcrumbs and I believe the general consensus was that it's fine as long as everyone has a "reasonable opportunity" to discover the message.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22632 Posts
June 23 2015 15:16 GMT
#11
I think kita has it right. There was a game a while ago where encryption became a hot issue:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/340727-pick-your-poison-mafia?view=all

Basically it allows you to do things and reveal them later. This becomes a major issue for mafia because if they want to counterclaim a cop or something, they could have had to plan for it since day 1 to match an actual cop that has been dropping encrypted messages throughout the game.

In general, it's probably fine to hide messages like this. Holyflare did something similar in the game where we lynched DreadReturn on day 1. He posted a big post of bullshit with 2 "hidden" links to images that contained actual analysis. However I would recommend just not doing it for the most part, because if everyone starts doing it it simply makes the games worse for having to click-search through every post in the game. This game is time-consuming enough already.

There is a massive grey are of things that people can do this game, some are more grey than others. I'll list a few

  • Checking of other players on steam/battle.net or other social networks.
  • Encrypting messages
  • Speaking in code that only part of the game is likely to understand (I think geript/wos did this?)
  • Abusing own meta to the point where you stop trying to win in some situations (town seal / promises)
  • Discussing an ongoing game with another player not in the game (is this hydra now? Looking at you Protactinium)
  • Using out of game content (images, videos) that may be subject to change
  • Spreadsheets that can be posted in the thread as "proof" you've been doing something
  • Using out of game information to "prove" out of game actions (look at these boxes, I'm really moving)


There's been so many of these throughout the years. In general it's best of people just stop trying to break the game and focus on just playing it.
Computer says mafia
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
June 23 2015 15:29 GMT
#12
We ended up banning encryption though, because it wasn't fun. I remember some game where everybody was forced to encrypt a roleclaim on d1 and then later they could prove their d1 roleclaim by posting the decryption key. That just wasn't fun.

I think that banning hidden messages in BBCode makes perfect sense, again because it isn't fun. I don't think anybody plays mafia to quote every single post in search of hidden BBCode messages. Hiding messages is okay but everything hidden should be hidden in plain sight for everyone to see without having to quote a post or put it through google translate or whatever.

I also remember a game where someone posted a small talk oneliner with a smiley appended, but not a teamliquid smiley. It was an image of a smiley that was also a link. No one thought to hover the smiley to discover that it was a link and in the end the link lead people to somewhere with game related information. Would this be alright? Would hiding a link inside an otherwise underlined passage (like this, the comma is linked) be alright? I don't think so, nobody plays mafia to hover everything that could possibly be a link.

kitaman27 raises an interesting question with the Sirius Black thing, are pop cultural references like that something we want in our games? Is it fair to have an edge just because you've watched Harry Potter and Batman? It's probably not a big deal and a ban on that would probably be undesirable (and unenforceable?). What about obscure reference to old games "Remember that time in that game when you thought that thing about me and it was completely untrue? Well that's happening again!!!".

I think we should just ban behavior we think takes more fun away from the game than it puts into it. With this BBCode thing the answer is pretty straight forward (people don't seem to support it and some are actively against it) but with some other related hidden message things it might be a little less obvious.
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
June 23 2015 15:33 GMT
#13
yea, this is a game of behavioral analysis and logic and thing that give an edge and isn't one of those should be considered for BAN
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
June 23 2015 16:02 GMT
#14
On a side note, this guy would totally be in favor of BBCode hidden messages
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
June 23 2015 16:30 GMT
#15
well, the good thing is, we don't have to be consistent over everything.

we can whimsically decide we don't like this and not worry how it matches up with other things we do and don't like.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
scott31337
Profile Joined January 2013
United States2979 Posts
June 23 2015 16:51 GMT
#16
You aren't actually hiding anything since anyone can see it in my opinion, you just have to look for it, but I can accept if they are disallowed.
THIS WAGON IS HITTING MAFIA FOR SURE BOYS!
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16317 Posts
June 23 2015 17:40 GMT
#17
On June 24 2015 01:30 marvellosity wrote:
well, the good thing is, we don't have to be consistent over everything.

we can whimsically decide we don't like this and not worry how it matches up with other things we do and don't like.

Exactly.
Fidei86
Profile Joined May 2015
United Kingdom2116 Posts
June 23 2015 18:13 GMT
#18
There's a podcast?
Onegu
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States9699 Posts
June 23 2015 18:17 GMT
#19
Not really a podcast but WoS recorded what we talked about for the newbie. Its on his twitch
Try TL Mafia!!!
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-23 20:08:22
June 23 2015 19:00 GMT
#20
We podcast from time to time though after big/interesting games. You can expect one after TL Mafia LXXI: Gaiden

Main thing for me is that like, there shouldn't be anything "hidden". You can have things that are tricky, but if everything you write should be readable by a person trying to read your post. Hiding things inside hyperlinks or bbcode tags that would require people to mouseover EVERY LETTER in the entire game of mafia, or quote every post and copy it to a notepad every time, should be obviously not chill at all. I can't imagine anyone finding this acceptable.

If you want to be like "heh heh I'm Batman's enemy" to bredcrumb that your'e the jester or whatever, I don't care, as long as it's readable. As a host, it's my job to police interactions and prevent people from flaming together, and you can bet your sorry asses that I absolutely refuse to quote every post made by a player, and mouseover ever letter, looking for bbcode and hyperlinks to make sure everyone is following behavior guidelines.

Anyone doing this kinda crap is gonna get kicked out of my games cause I cannot be bothered to deal with the amount of moderating bullshit required.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PiG Daily
22:50
Best Games of SC
Clem vs ByuN
SHIN vs GuMiho
PiGStarcraft443
LiquipediaDiscussion
SC Evo Complete
22:00
Enki Epic Ser. Taeja vs soO EN
davetesta57
Liquipedia
OSC
20:00
Mid Season Playoffs
Spirit vs GeraldLIVE!
Solar vs ShoWTimE
SteadfastSC174
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft443
SteadfastSC 174
Nina 160
JuggernautJason90
ViBE81
Nathanias 69
CosmosSc2 49
StarCraft: Brood War
NaDa 18
LuMiX 3
Dota 2
monkeys_forever400
canceldota157
NeuroSwarm94
League of Legends
Grubby3267
JimRising 391
febbydoto9
Counter-Strike
Fnx 2014
taco 838
sgares68
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox487
AZ_Axe135
Liquid`Ken53
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor202
Other Games
summit1g8689
fl0m527
C9.Mang0207
Pyrionflax99
Trikslyr69
PPMD39
Livibee36
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick43226
BasetradeTV25
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 60
• Adnapsc2 9
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1468
Other Games
• Scarra2064
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
10h 6m
SHIN vs Clem
Cure vs TBD
FEL
12h 6m
FEL
16h 6m
Gerald vs PAPI
Spirit vs ArT
CSO Cup
16h 6m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
18h 6m
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 10h
RSL Revival
1d 10h
Classic vs TBD
FEL
1d 15h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 18h
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV European League
3 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
HSC XXVII
NC Random Cup

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.