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On July 23 2015 03:09 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 03:05 Oatsmaster wrote:On July 23 2015 03:03 Trfel wrote:On July 23 2015 03:01 Oatsmaster wrote:
SO EXCITING.
trfel please, thats not an inconsistence.
It's not really an inconsistency. But it is Clarity_nl manipulating his reads/thoughts to his advantage based on a changing situation. how do you tell the difference between manipulating his reads and genuinely changing his mind? Do you think that the situation was not reasonable for clarity to change his mind? Based on all of the examples I found, no, I don't. I can understand it when it's one, or two, or three. But not when there are so many more, and not when they always seem to benefit Clarity_nl.
Can you just list a few more times clarity has done this, no need to quote.
What do you mean by benefiting clarity? Can you also explain how the changes benefited scum clarity?
Cheers.
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On July 23 2015 03:10 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 03:09 Trfel wrote:On July 23 2015 03:05 Oatsmaster wrote:On July 23 2015 03:03 Trfel wrote:On July 23 2015 03:01 Oatsmaster wrote:
SO EXCITING.
trfel please, thats not an inconsistence.
It's not really an inconsistency. But it is Clarity_nl manipulating his reads/thoughts to his advantage based on a changing situation. how do you tell the difference between manipulating his reads and genuinely changing his mind? Do you think that the situation was not reasonable for clarity to change his mind? Based on all of the examples I found, no, I don't. I can understand it when it's one, or two, or three. But not when there are so many more, and not when they always seem to benefit Clarity_nl. Can you just list a few more times clarity has done this, no need to quote. What do you mean by benefiting clarity? Can you also explain how the changes benefited scum clarity? Cheers. Will do. It will take me a while, though.
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No, you can just do it from memory. Oats just said no quotes needed
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Why?
You dont need to quote or do anything, you just gotta talk.
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What did I do, how was it manipulative and how did it benefit me?
GO
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This is where trfel stops posting because he knows that when I get lynched he wins.
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I looked through it all last night, I can't remember all of the examples.
If it were one or two big examples, then sure, but it's a bunch of smaller ones.
I will demonstrate what I am saying, but it will require the use of quotes. Deal with it.
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How about just 1 example?
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On July 23 2015 03:22 Clarity_nl wrote:
How about just 1 example? Why are you so impatient?
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Because the sun is fading
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Also to point out how you were just saying things to appear as if you have an actual reason for voting me other than your win condition being that oyu want town dead.
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On July 23 2015 03:25 Clarity_nl wrote:
Because the sun is fading There are three and a half hours to go.
You think that I am mafia, correct? Not just a better chance than yourself, but actually mafia?
I stated that I had a bunch of small reasons, and that if it was only a few posts it wouldn't really matter. So, you want me to share one reason only? For what purpose?
Not to figure out my alignment, clearly. And not to actually prove a point, either. Just to be manipulative, to get a weakened argument and then tear it to shreds to make yourself look better and make me look worse.
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On July 23 2015 03:29 Clarity_nl wrote:
Also to point out how you were just saying things to appear as if you have an actual reason for voting me other than your win condition being that oyu want town dead.
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I want you to share a 1 reason trfel. Am I mafia?
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In no way are you the victim here.
It doesn't matter what clarity thinks. Any push which has traction he's gonna go for it.
What do the rest of the players think?
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Oatsmaster, I doubt you're mafia, and if you are then the game is lost anyway.
But I'm asking you to wait 15-30 minutes for me to be able to properly explain my point.
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Dude I'm already being lynched. The point is not whether you can create a point in 30 minutes, the point is that you say "clarity has done X multiple times", and when asked "when" you go "give me 30 minutes" which might as well translate to:
I was just saying things, I did not know they had to be true
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I have 1 hour for lunch. Some quick thoughts from skimming the thread although there's a few areas I want to revisit.
Oats' reaction to not trusting Ras/Trfel's meta reads on each other (or the former on the latter I forget) is town, the thing is I also know that Ras uses very personal meta reads on people (reference Himalayas) to figure things out but again I understand the scepticism. I already explained my position on Ras and why that position isn't changed or what I see the lack of basis for change in these last few pages.
I really did not like WoS' re-entry to this thread. I realise he's afk either way, and maybe he doesn't/can't/is unable to give a shit as either alignment at this stage in the game to be posting more. But I just have a bad feeling about his approach in the stuff I AM seeing from him and even if I had only maximum 10 minutes to be playing the game per day from a town perspective I'd still at least examine the competing case on Clarity (again, just look at the bloody vote count).
And then I see shit like this:
On July 22 2015 07:20 WaveofShadow wrote:
Rsoul you're another one of those players tha probably shouldn't be alive.
Makes more sense to be you than clarity.
Didn't Clarity have more of the townreads earlier in the game? Shouldn't it make more sense for Clarity to be dead over Rasputin prior to D5? Maybe not now, but that's another beef I have with that. That was 12 hours ago though.....erghhhh.
I looked back at the WoS quotes where he is begging people to vig him and where when it was initially said I can see where people got the town thining from that. I can't remember if that was BEFORE the gunsmith guns were distributed or after. I know I got heavy pressure to kill MZ when I got the gun, so maybe he said that knowing that it was unlikely to happen? IDK.
Anyways, at this point, I don't think Trfel is scum - the read he gave on me (based on end of day 5) and the manner in which he did it is reflective of how he pulls apart the actions as they have happened in his town games. The responses I'm seeing now (page 429) seem reflective of that same trend. Also he's considering both worlds of people in his reads.
I am looking at his NSM11 filter and where he's scumreading Rels in that game - he's not looking at both worlds, he's only looking at the scum world of Rels, when there is a justifiable (IMO) town version of that. Additonally in that game I'm seeing a lot of more bulletpoint/and/or high level statements when he's scumreading people. There are some pretty telling things from NSM11.
His read on Kickstart in nsm11 is a lot of him making a scumread out of nothing. That's one of many examples, but I'm not seeing that here. There (for the most part) seems to be reasonable basis for change in this game, unless there's a scumread he's issued that I've missed. He does admit when he's unsure, and I see more of the aggressive mode Trfel in that game in some of his wall of text posts.
I really don't think Trfel is scum. I'll re-read his major scumreads in this game, and try and compare/contrast, but I'm not terribly convinced atm.
Going to try and get through ruXxar in the time I have.
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On July 23 2015 03:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
In no way are you the victim here.
It doesn't matter what clarity thinks. Any push which has traction he's gonna go for it.
What do the rest of the players think?
Oats MVP
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On July 23 2015 03:37 Clarity_nl wrote:
Dude I'm already being lynched. The point is not whether you can create a point in 30 minutes, the point is that you say "clarity has done X multiple times", and when asked "when" you go "give me 30 minutes" which might as well translate to:
I was just saying things, I did not know they had to be true
Trfel is a case-based poster, not conversational, he would do this as either alignment. From my own experience he's done it as town.
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EPT
