EPTNewbie Student Mafia XI - Page 5
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First I want to say who I get town reads on. I tend not to think they are as useful as scum reads but I haven't addressed my town reads at all this game and we are far enough into the game for me to have some people in my town circle. Town Reads On Damdred He seems quite towny to me. I will admit I often run into the trap of town reading people who are expressing similar thoughts as I am but aside from him having the same general scum reads or at least being suspicious of the people I am is a point that makes me think he is town. Aside from that though I think he has demonstrated a will to solve this game and push his agenda (which I think has been town) by asking the right questions and offering up his advice. This starts immediately on his entry. He replaced in when there was a wagon onto bats and he immediately started asking questions and offering his opinion and experiences he has had from playing with bats in prior games. In a situation where he could so easily have added pressure onto the wagon or just let it continue if scum, he demonstrated town mentality by asking questions and trying to figure things out. There is nothing particularly worth quoting from his day1 filter but a quick look at it just strengthens this opinion to me, he seems genuinely interested in solving the game. I will say his posting around the geript lynch is weird but I wasn't really there at the time and to me the whole situation is weird but that is just because I get the benefit of coming into it after the fact knowing he was town. Him being on the geript lynch makes him as questionable as everyone else in my opinion but his play outside of that has been town oriented I think. After the lynch on geript I quite like his posting and again displayed his trying to figure out the game. This post in particular: On June 14 2015 12:15 Damdred wrote: + Show Spoiler + Damdreds Late night Reads List: Firstly i'm going to take out the wagons that ended up with 0 votes to start with, and also the scratched people presently. I'll dedicate a post later to talking about vote changes (maybe in this post on some people) to determine some alignments if I can. Sulfurus (2): Kickstart, WaveOfShadow Batsnacks (2): n00bKing, sulfurus, geript (8): Rels, Oatsmaster, batsnacks, Trfel, Damdred, MoosyDoosy, ruXxar, scott31337 Rels (1): geript, This is what we end up with (cleaned up version) Sulfurus (2): Kickstart, WaveOfShadow Batsnacks (2): n00bKing, sulfurus, geript (8): Rels, Oatsmaster, batsnacks, Trfel, Damdred, MoosyDoosy, ruXxar, scott31337 Rels (1): geript, First thing I do is color in Geript with a bold and a green since hes flipped to the thread. Secondly since im not confirmed to the thread but to myself (go me) i'm putting myself as green. I'd rather not have to right out a town case currently for myself so just trust me for now. Two easiest town reads are now colored in green for me. Batsnacks I've covered pretty extensively in my earlier filter, if you want the longer case its in my filter go read it a bit. But to add on a bit, Bats made a decent point and pushed it. Thought he found a slip and pushed it, he led the lynch on Geript even fi he flipped town. Scum bats is really back seat he does try to cause confusion. However at this end of day he was really useful he was calm and acted really towny with how he went about the lynch. This guy might be the most town I've ever seen Bats be before, if he did this as scum i'm pretty impressed. Trfel, is town also. Made some excellent points on Rel, but ended up sheeping Batsnacks around the same time I did. The posts that Trfel did make were some of the longer cases I thought were pretty good and factually sound. Though some people might disagree with them It hought they were really good and showed a clear understanding of what was going on. Also Trfel knows my kryptonite somewhat and how to abuse me in a thread without seeming scummy for it and chose to try to work with me and give me time instead of coming down hard on me. Its also partially a tone read and how the involvement in the thread is going. i'm pretty confident that Trfel is town here. Sulfurus (2): Kickstart, WaveOfShadow Batsnacks (2): n00bKing, sulfurus, geript (8): Rels, Oatsmaster, batsnacks, Trfel, Damdred, MoosyDoosy, ruXxar, scott31337 Rels (1): geript, Ruxxar is one of my scum leans currently. I won't take credit for the initial find of the post where he switched votes from bats to Geript. (Wave gets credit for pointing it out) He shows very little consistency with how his reads change and how he approaches the thread, for example when bats makes his push on Geript he showed very little suspicion for someone that was hard scum reading Bats and thought that he was the best lynch in the entire game. Also he gave kickstart a town lean for almost no reason when he was suspicious of him before. He also has expanded his filter with a lot of talk about speculation and about claims and how to handl blues etc. Overall I think hes decently scummy and should be lookd at harder. WaveofShadow is another decent town lean currently. He shows genuine interest in figuring out peoples alignments, he pushes on people and is searching to find scum when he is here. One of the negatives I have is that sometimes he feels a little passive in the way that he does things at the same time. I know for instance he asked me several questions that I just didn't answer at the time and still haven't answered (I believe) and even though I've been in the thread with him he just hasn't cared. So he worries me a little bit but i'm generally paranoid of him also, plus he soft pushed geript a little bit. Sulfurus (2): Kickstart, WaveOfShadow Batsnacks (2): n00bKing, sulfurus, geript (8): Rels, Oatsmaster, batsnacks, Trfel, Damdred, MoosyDoosy, ruXxar, scott31337 Rels (1): geript, Moosy I think is town, I would look at him more later, and its mostly just a gut feeling. He feels really honest to me and just confused at points. I think hes town. Tone read on scott, and his postings just feel like his towny self. Good direction I feel like at points. I am going to end this here for now, I don't have the attention span to go through everything. I'll try to finish reads before the morning on the others. I'm still leaning scum on Rels and kickstarts activity is worrying and lack of real content compared to his other games. I think this is good analysis with some decent conclusions and again shows his trying to figure out the game. I don't agree with all of his reads but I think this is a good indication of him playing with a town mindset. One thing I do want to note that I think is a bit strange is his hard defending of bats. Bats is someone who I wouldn't be comfortable reading as solid town but Damdred did almost immediatly. I don't think mafia comes in and just hard defends someone so early day1 who has a wagon on them at the moment but I wonder what his thoughts are now on bats as since then he hasn't said much about him. Is bats still confirmed town for Damdred because I don't get the same impression of him. On Wave Wave is another town read. Probably not as strong as I would put Damdred but I still think his play is from a town perspective. He has been quite active in pressuring various people and been pretty forthright with his reads (even though a lot of them were wrong  ). He is constantly analyzing things and giving his reads on the various situations that arise and this is good I think. Again just looking through his filter screams town to me. Nothing in particular to quote but it is constant pressure and evaluating of the situation. Those are probably my strongest town leans at the moment. I would lean town on moosey, bats, and trfel but not to the extend of the other two and will keep an eye on what they are doing for sure. Now to the important part, who I think is scummiest. The three people that look scummiest to me at the moment are ruxxar, oats, and sulfurus. Not sure what to think of this pairing as there has been a lot of them calling each other scummy and such but as there are no red flips yet I won't worry too much about that fact because I think it can be done as either alignment. Scum Reads On Oats **While formulating I see some discussion already going on around Oats but I'll go ahead with this as I've announced my suspicions on him earlier last night and even earlier in the game.** Of course I almost immediately had it out with oats early on in the game but from past experiences we just butt heads. My largest concern from him at the moment is from what I remember he is usually very active in pushing an agenda, and this game I feel like he is just riding along trying to not to create any waves. I grant that it has been some time since I played with him last but irregardless his actions are still scummy and I don't see them being made from a town perspective. Numerous times he has either just voted on someone with little backing it up or by asking the thread "can we just kill this person". I stated my issues with that before but just to reiterate why would town be so unconcerned with who the lynch is and be willing to just lynch anyone with little to no thought involved, which is in my opinion what he has been doing. Here are all the times hes done it, and while I grant that the bats one was at the start and just getting things going it is still weird to me so I'll add it: This is after he has his vote immediately onto bats for pretty stupid reasons. His reasoning was he claimed vt and bats thinks that is scummy therefor oats put a vote on bats and was sure he was scum. Makes no sense. On June 12 2015 10:30 Oatsmaster wrote: Can we just kill bats? Its super obvious, he voted someone that claimed VT. meh geript, he seems interested and it really feels more like lynchbait than mafia. Then he wants to lynch me early day1 because I was 'tryharding'. Another one of the stupidest things I've heard. I was the first to hard push onto someone with a small case of all the reasons that I thought someone was slightly scummy and oats thinks to himself "god kickstart sure is trying hard must me mafia". Again this makes no sense and I don't see a towny having that mindset of someone trying hard/pushing their current reads = scum and should be gotten rid of; just makes no sense. On June 12 2015 11:22 Oatsmaster wrote: Ì wanna lynch kickstart man. That case is forcing a read hard. Yet another vote with little explanation. His concern at the time from his posts around this was that noobs was doing a lot of advice instead of playing the game. This was thread sentiment though and I would say from a new player not necessarily alignment indicative, though on the other hand it could be an easy mislynch for mafia to go after how noobs was posting. He did back off of this vote after noob continuously kept giving advice but thread sentiment then was that noobs posting constant advice wasnt scummy so he had no real choice but to back off of it as that was his only reason for the vote. On June 12 2015 17:07 Oatsmaster wrote: ##vote Noob He then hoped onto the bats wagon that was still gaining steam. Again based entirely around bats taking issue with his 'claim' of vt which is just stupid. Then there is this hilarious post from him. He gets off of bats and onto geript and read what he says at the end. I find it amusing as that is how I would classify his play the entire game for the most part. On June 13 2015 22:40 Oatsmaster wrote: I DONT WANT TO THINK MAN, i just want to suggest bandwagons and have people sheep me cause I smell nice. geript is mafia because he jumped on moose as a placeholder vote and then came back and changed to someone else without seriously addressing his previous points on moose and why they are now invalid, and the connections because that was a weird sort of associative lynch. And hes been not posting a lot. Oh man you just said I did well scumreading you. I hate people who say that. The bolded is just my opinion man. But the important question here is if someone gets lynched today, are you the driving or even secondary influence for that lynch? Because if not, then you are useless and not helping town with a shit ton of posts. Someone else said it but Oats is quite guilty of posting a lot and hoping onto a lot of wagons but with not much reasoning behind them, so it is funny that early on he would tell someone they are not being helpful when doing this when this is how he has been playing. More of the lets just lynch anybody and everybody not caring who it is: On June 14 2015 00:14 Oatsmaster wrote: Lets lynch geript kk. On June 14 2015 01:58 Oatsmaster wrote: Im going to sleep. Lynch geript. On June 14 2015 09:14 Oatsmaster wrote: Let's get moosy tmr On June 14 2015 09:36 Oatsmaster wrote: I quite like lynching Scot. Then I don't want to get into too much OMGUS because I am very prone to doing that, but his posting around my wagon is hilarious and so wishy washy, he can't even commit to a read there. First he says I'm obviously town, then asks around the thread to see if there can get a lynch on me, then he comes in again with his "ok lets just lynch him then". Its mind boggling. On June 16 2015 10:17 Oatsmaster wrote: Kickstart is pretty damn obviously town and him not doing anything doesn't really diminish his start. Like this is a super easy lynch for scum to push because Kickstart 's attitude sucks and a pretty predictable response will come. Let's lynch ruxxar instead. On June 16 2015 10:18 Oatsmaster wrote: Seriously why the hell is kickstart a better lynch. Can someone like trfel give me one reason that doesn't include the words activity and promises. On June 16 2015 12:26 Oatsmaster wrote: Damdred, do you want to lynch kickstart or not? On June 16 2015 22:42 Oatsmaster wrote: Pretty ok case I guess. Dammit I hate being a wrong but now kickstart actually looks like mafia. It's weird that sulph wants to lynch me rather than kickstart though. Again I am prone to OMGUS but this is just weird and I can't help but feel he agrees that the points against me were NAI but then as soon as it looks like lynching me is a real possibility he immediately abandons his initial read that I am surely town, quite suspicious. Oats is probably scum. On Sulfurus Sulfurus has been scummy all game and has been extremely lurky. With a filter of only 2 pages and in those 2 pages little content and add to that that the content he does give is scummy overall Sulfurus just screams scummy. I immediatly jumped all over him for this bullshit, is what he came into the thread with and to be honest his posting since has been just as bad: On June 12 2015 10:12 Sulfurus wrote: I'm starting to really like the case on Kickstarter; he has made a lot of posts that give the illusion of being a helpful towny with his PSA and rule clarifications but they are really just filler and something that the mods already have covered. On top of that I think n00bKing's defense of ruXx is spot on which gives even more validity to the Kickstarter push. ##Vote: Kickstarter (I admit that in a vacuum I would probably scum read Bats more but I've learned my lesson from last game) The wishy-washyness continues: On June 12 2015 14:04 Sulfurus wrote: I'll go ahead and unvote Kick since his filter is no longer just fluff. He then hops on the bats wagon. Unlike oats who at least had the bullshit reason of bats not liking his vt claim, Sulf literally just says "I agree with you guys he is odd" and offers nothing: On June 13 2015 08:24 Sulfurus wrote: To start off I think n00bKing is the towniest person in this game period. Almost all of his posts are there to benefit town with either advice or very good questioning and again I think his reasoning on ruXxar is spot on (and much better then what Kick has said). So fmpov this make ruXx look really good and bats/kick look terrible (ruxx has also done a lot since that looks really towny in my eyes whereas kick and bats haven't). Moving on there is also the whole conflict between Wave and Geript caused by his shitty read on Moosy (which was sheeped by Bats even though geript himself has changed his mind). I think this interaction makes Wave look pretty good and bats once again doesn't however he has since changed his vote to Rels. Speaking of which the reason he is even voting Rels is because of a read by Trfel (looking back he was also one of the first to push scum on ruXx). So they may not be the strongest town reads on those I called town but I think you guys are right and bats really is playing differently this game. ##Vote: Batsnacks Here is pulling what I will call 'an oats', that is just saying he is fine with lynching whoever (one of whom is confirmed town from a flip) while offering absolutely no reasoning. I'm sure you are willing to just lynch whoever since you are probably mafia. On June 13 2015 15:38 Sulfurus wrote: I would definitely lynch and Kick and I would be fine with a Geript lynch. Wave was very quick and eager to lynch on me and Damdred has posted too little for me to read him as town. And no I don't think Bats has been more town recently at all. More of him willing to lynch whoever for whatever: On June 14 2015 05:04 Sulfurus wrote: If it wasn't clear I would lynch trfel and I shouldn't have ignored him just for voting bats. He also votes on oats then me and offers little reasoning. His play has just been so backseat and not pushing anything at all and then when he does come in and try to push something it is always off and seems scummy. Just look at his attitude here after the geript mislynch. Note that had geript not been lynched sulfuras was a liekly lynch. On June 14 2015 09:29 Sulfurus wrote: Wow if I had known you guys weren't going to kill me I would have come back earlier. Anyway I'm glad we killed someone on my lynch list even if he turned out to be town. I have so many problems with this quote. First off all he just sounds like he resigned to being lynched and afked. I usually class such behaviour as scummy. If you think you are going to be mislynched and are town, you should do everything in your power to give your thoughts and reads so that they are there after you are gone (like I am doing now xD). To me it is only in the interest of scum to clam up and not give out any information if they are on the chopping block because they dont want to give out any info, which is what sulf seems to have done here; he says nothing then comes in and says "oh thank god you didnt lynch me I just went afk because I was on the chopping block, yeah ok buddy. And then the last sentence of he is glad someone on his lynch list died even though that person is confirmed town is weird, especially since sulf has shown a willingness to lynch anyone and everyone for little to no reasons. Sulf is also probably scum, and with even less to work with than oats and since he has shown that he is going to lurk as much as possible and be as vague and non committal as possible I think he is probably the best lynch at this point, and thus my vote remains there. On ruXxar I am actually going to go ahead and get this post posted since there isnt much time left but I find ruxxar scummy too and have said so from the beginning. I do think he is most active of the three I have mentioned and he is giving us a lot of things to work with. I also am prone to being lenient with newer players and trying to always remember to take into account that new players may do certain things which seem off. THus while he is scummy, I think he is putting in a lot of effort and giving us a lot to work with in regards to his views and what actions he is taking and pushing so as the game progresses we can get even more info to work with from him. Unlike sulfurus and oats who are content to just sit back and not create any splashes but are still acting scummy he is being active, therefor of the three I would rather lynch into sulfurus and oats and ruxxar last even though I have found him to be somewhat scummy. Cut my ruxxar shit short but wanted to get this posted with a decent amount of time left. And before someone bitches about my huge post you all bitched at me for not playing like a typically do, so here you have it, the typical kickstart wall of text. Now go vote sulfurus. | ||
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On June 17 2015 06:26 MoosyDoosy wrote: I also remember someone saying veterans generally hate playing Mafia. If that's the case, does Oatsmaster's attitude reflect this? (Question oriented towards the vets) I can see why someone would say that. I mean I myself have had little motivation earlier in this game because I think I burnt myself out from playing too many games right in a row/simultaneously. That said, there is a difference between someone burnt out and playing like shit and someone burnt out and playing scummy. I think I was playing like shit and that is why the people who played with me before were suspicious/mad at me, I think oats play has been pure scummy, but I can't speak to whether or not he is motivated to play, only that I think he is scum ^^. | ||
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On June 17 2015 06:28 MoosyDoosy wrote: If he switches, it's an almost clear sign he's Mafia. His best bet is for scott to come to his rescue. It might also just be a case of Sulfurus leaving after his couple of posts so he hasn't seen what's happening. Yeah that is my thinking. He looks bad if he votes me regardless of his actual alignment. If he is town though he should 100% vote for me, especially since he has consistently stated he thought I was scum. I think the only reason he doesn't is to try and save the mislynch opportunity on me for later. But even this is weird thinking so I dont know, but that's the world im in currently. | ||
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On June 17 2015 06:44 Rels wrote: Can you give me a quick summary on each of your scum then please. Don't worry about justifications, they are in your big post. Just the points. I can sum up oats and sulfurus the same basically. THey are both lurky, short filters, non-commital, and they are willing to lynch anyone and everyone for little to no reason or justification. You said I made all my votes like this but as I pointed out I think i've had my vote on only 3 people this game, ruxxar, sulfurus, and yourself. I concede that my vote on you was bad, but it was right when I got back from being gone and it was thread sentiment at the time, my other 2 votes I have read as scum all along. Compare this with sulfurus and oats who have each voted on a ton of people, not just 3 like myself, and each time it has been with literally nothing. Not counting pure votes you can look at who they are suspicious of or who they are scum reading, they have BOTH been wishy-washy and non commital and that is what I tried to point out. To me town players should be very concerned about who they lynch and why, and I don't think either of them have been. I admit I listed ruxxar mostly from my early interaction and impression of him and that is why I am scum leaning him. The reason I kept it short is because he has been posting A LOT, so IF he is scum like I think he may be then he will continue to give us stuff to work with and to evaluaute, while oats and sulfurus have demonstrated their willingness to sit back and do nothing. Thus I would rather vote one of them. | ||
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