On June 07 2015 00:49 NaCl`y wrote:First and foremost, I'd just like to get this out of the way. I am
NOT the doctor. I decided to do this for reasons twofold:
1) I felt that no individual would ever believe they were under pressure and mafia would have caught their breadcrumb and then hard claim jailkeeper on day 1. I could not believe that a town Artanis[Xp] would do this. Since I did not believe it, I had to test out his claim. I originally thought just claiming jailkeeper would make him either rescind his silly claim or if he was mafia, give up the game. He did not do this however so I concluded that from his reactions and interactions around it his claim was pretty much sincere. This is when I decided to enact the second phase of my plan.
2) I switched my claim to doctor in order to garner reactions. Since I am town and I am pretty sure Artanis[Xp] is town then the unbelievable situation is that we have both a jailkeeper and a doctor. I don't think anybody would think this would be balanced. At least, I don't think it would in a small game such as this. So, since this was the case I left it open that there were 2 healing power roles. I did want to let everyone respond but a lot of people are just afk. No matter, this led to some very interesting reactions indeed:
The first of which is Justanothertownie. I think his reaction is by far the most sincere in the game. Posts like:
+ Show Spoiler +On June 06 2015 10:52 justanothertownie wrote:
Going to bed. Anyone who is even considering not lynching Artanis has to explain all this:
First of all you have to explain why NaCl is scum because there is no way there are 2 protective roles in a 10 vs 3 setup with 1 mafia KP and normal roles but EVEN IF THAT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU ON ITS OWN and you think for some reason it is possible to have a JK AND a doctor in the same game:
The situation is the following - you are Artanis a pretty good and experienced town player and you happened to role JK. Halfway into day1 nothing much happened so far and all of a sudden marvellosity who you townread and who you think is a really good player is attacking and voting you. You played a lot of games together. Do you either try to convince him that you are town/play the game or immediately feel the need to claim?
The answer is even if Artanis thinks he will potentially get lynched he will never claim his really powerful role without trying to avert the lynch otherwise before (and his stats show that he is really good at not being mislynched).
On the other hand if you are scum Artanis then you might think to yourself - "I will probably not be able to avoid being lynched" for whatever reason (maybe because town marvellosity set his sights on you). Artanis had some really weak scumgames. In THAT CASE claiming JK is pretty good. If noone counterclaims you will survive AT LEAST a day and be able to push an agenda. If you get counterclaimed you outed a really important role (if scum has a vigi getting rid of our protective role basically means they need one less mislynch for example) and in the worst case you just still get lynched. Maybe you even survive because people are idiots.
So town Artanis obviously did not claim because of being afraid. So why would he?
Artanis says he claimed because he thought he was outed by a dumb breadcrumb (which I think is HIGHLY unbelievable itself) he did which marv put emphasis on. So what do you do in this situation?
The answer is you never ever ever claim right away. What does town get from your outing? Nothing. If you think you absolutely need to claim for whatever reason you can still claim during the end of the night to avoid getting shot if scum happen to not know about you. By claiming you are destroying any chance of them not knowing for no real benefit.
If Artanis is town he acted incredibly stupid to a degree that is absolutely insane. I refuse to believe this and that he would not put any thought in how to play as one of towns most important and strong roles. The likelihood of him being mafia is much much higher. Add to this the claim by NaCl and we will absolutely lynch Artanis today.
On June 06 2015 07:42 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 07:37 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 07:27 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Which ruse? I've already fully owned up to being bad. Are you going to be bad with me?
Your claim is so utterly terrible it is mindblowing. I have no idea how you can think doing this is a good idea (at least as town) regardless of your role. I refuse to believe that you actually felt threatened by 1 fucking vote.
I have not been trying to figure out the game? When I was in the thread I was basically the only one to do this at all.
I wasn't feeling all that threatened, I just figured that scum would figure out the crumb I made anyway after marv pointed it out.
On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote:
@Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper.
More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper.
Then you're either scum or there's both a doc and jk in the game, which given it's a closed setup is possible. I'm not sure which to believe.
I fail to believe any mini game would be so utterly awful at that kind of balance. I am quite content to get lynched first for the trade.
We don't know what roles scum have. I'm not quite as convinced as you, more so because I see little reason for you to fakeclaim as scum here. Then again, Toad did do it in LX or whatever so I guess it's possible, but it seems unlikely.
On June 06 2015 07:37 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 07:27 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Which ruse? I've already fully owned up to being bad. Are you going to be bad with me?
Your claim is so utterly terrible it is mindblowing. I have no idea how you can think doing this is a good idea (at least as town) regardless of your role. I refuse to believe that you actually felt threatened by 1 fucking vote.
I have not been trying to figure out the game? When I was in the thread I was basically the only one to do this at all.
I wasn't feeling all that threatened, I just figured that scum would figure out the crumb I made anyway after marv pointed it out.
On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote:
@Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper.
More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper.
Then you're either scum or there's both a doc and jk in the game, which given it's a closed setup is possible. I'm not sure which to believe.
I also don't believe you thought scum would catch on to your ridiculous "crumb". You are not this bad.
I actually figured you already figured it out when you kept talking about how bad I looked yet never voted or actually pushed me. I don't doubt that a 3-player scumteam would figure it out themselves.
Noone would ever make the connectionof lock = jail. Are you kidding me.
Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:40 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:38 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:37 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:35 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote:
@Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper.
More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper.
If this is a harcclaim we are 100 % lynching artanis.
care to explain?
I'm all ears.
There are never both jk and doctor in the game. If the salty guy hardclaims we are lynching the shit out of artanis. In the worst case he trades 1:1 with mafia NaCl.
So you're banking on lynching claims in a closed setup?
Yeah, no.
Yeah, yes. There are never ever both jk and doctor in a 13 player mini with scum having 1 KP. NEVER.
His reactions and surprise and looking at claims while analysing which ones make sense or not is very towny of him. I am quite happy to add him to the town pile of Artanis[Xp] and Justanothertownie thus far.
prplhz is more of a toss up, I'm not sure what to believe really. His initial reaction to the claims seemed a skeptical but also as if they were not at the same time:
Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:58 prplhz wrote:On June 06 2015 07:55 NaCl`y wrote:
@Everyone
I do not believe there would simply be 2 protective roles in this game. I would like the input of others that have not said anything towards this, it would be appreciated. Are there likely to be 2 town protective roles? Could Artanis[Xp] be the mafia roleblocker fake claiming since they are notified and it would be a good cover for somebody that notoriously does not play as mafia?
Until recently there couldn't be godfather, framer, miller, cop in same game but then suddenly there was a game with godfather, framer, miller, cop. So I'm not inclined to this setup speculation either. Honestly I haven't a clue what to make of these claims, I'm pretty horrible with claims.
What I'm pretty certain of is that one of you claimers is a giant moron. post that give me pause are posts like:
Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 08:45 prplhz wrote:On June 06 2015 08:43 justanothertownie wrote:
Ok, tell me:
1) Why would scum NaCl counterclaim if they can shoot town artanis in the night?
2) How on earth does Artanis play make sense from a town pov? Do you think he is usually a pretty stupid guy?
No but I just said, the narrative of him being town, having his crumb outed, being scum read by marvellosity (who will probably get his lynch d1) and then being all frustrated and martyring and hard claiming shit, that sort of fits. Do you think scum would have done all this if they could have avoided it? This is pretty extraordinary.
combined with
Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 09:30 prplhz wrote:
seriously artanis has never been mislynched and that's not because he pulls off shit like this in all his town games
it's the exact opposite
He pretty much outlines reasons that Artanis[Xp] could be town while still saying that we should lynch him which is incredibly confusing, hence why I'm not sure about his alignment right now.
I actually think marvellosity is mafia in this game. He has had several overblown reactions that I don't think he'd have as town and his reaction to this double protective role claiming is very sub par for him. I don't think he'd ever agree with Justanothertownie's reasoning for voting Artanis[Xp] and then just blindly lynch fuba. Ever.
The reactions that I am talking about are:
Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 05:28 marvellosity wrote:On June 06 2015 05:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 05:26 marvellosity wrote:On June 06 2015 05:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 05:23 marvellosity wrote:
There is absolutely no way a town Artanis claims jailkeeper for no reason here.
None.
He is scum.
You are going to be so disappointed.
then why did you claim?
what possible motivation when you have a total of 1 vote on you?
Because the thread was boring and I figured with the attention you gave to that part mafia would've certainly noticed and probably figured it out. This way at least everyone has the info.
that's so bad.
this is why i'm playing less and less.
i can't handle the sort of nonsense yamato + artanis are pulling this game.
i don't find it enjoyable.
it's too bad for me to find enjoyable
both Artanis[Xp] and Yamato77 were marvellosity's scum reads. Yet, when they did such utterly terrible things it garnered this reaction from marvellosity. Now, he's played quite a few games with Artanis[Xp] and from what I've seen he catches him if he is mafia quite regularly and has seen Artanis[Xp] claim things like mafia but lynched him anyway. This is a stupid claim and his initial reaction is frustration at stupidity but we find out later that marvellosity is STILL scum reading Artanis[Xp]. This, in tandem with his reaction to Yamato77 (his other scum read) seems very disingenuous.
Now, getting to the part of the claims. I never expected marvellosity to just sit back on a lynch when there were 2 protective roles claimed in the thread. ESPECIALLY if one of them was his original scum read that has now been outed. However, his reactions are so meek that I can only conclude that this is a mafia marvellosity.
Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 05:23 marvellosity wrote:
There is absolutely no way a town Artanis claims jailkeeper for no reason here.
None.
He is scum.
Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 06:12 marvellosity wrote:
yeah i guess unless someone hard counterclaims you, that might be a good idea.
Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 19:56 marvellosity wrote:
Mig: the context is all in my posts, my patience levels are even lower than what they used to be, I have nothing further to add
what jat wrote is honestly quite convincing about artanis, probably because i kinda believe it myself. still, it's possibly a risky play i guess just to randomly claim when you could talk yourself out of it? still can't decide firmly
like i said last night, I find the idea that I found artanis, it happened to contain the word lock, and he made the best of it not unlikely
that said, my vote is probably on mafia with fuba anyway.
soooo......
Actually i went back and read what jat wrote again, still pretty convinced. i'd lynch either.
He barely mentions the fact that there are 2 claims. He in fact ignores it. He bypasses this fact to then just talk about Artanis[Xp]'s reaction instead. However, it's as if he doesn't even care about it. He'd rather just sit back and lynch whoever instead of trying to figure things out. Fuba is such a cop out lynch and not something I think he'd be doing.
Regardless his play this game can be surmised as: Overblown reactions to Artanis[Xp]'s stupidity and a fake reaction to Yamato77 and nothing.
Also:
Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 20:00 marvellosity wrote:
Does mafia KP = 1 mean KP is factional and leaves room for the possibility of a mafia vigi, or is it 1 maximum?
I do not think he'd ever ask this question as town. I'm actually blown away that he'd ever ask this when he 100% knows it would never get answered. He has also now claimed inactivity excuses.
I think he is mafia.
Yamato77 is another person that I think is likely to be mafia. Out of all the reactions he had me scratching my head the most. He seemed to instantly believe that both claims were entirely real and that Artanis[Xp]'s post was most definitely a breadcrumb and never listened to logic that dictated otherwise.
Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:53 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:48 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:46 yamato77 wrote:
Okay, JAT, we'll make assumptions about a closed setup and then blame balance and stupid hosting postgame when you're wrong and you lynched a fucking protective role that wasn't even directly counterclaimed.
Why should I not believe Artanis' claim? And unless NaCl is literally suicidal, why the fuck would he do this as mafia? You need to answer these questions rather than just scream your assumptions in the thread.
Yes, doing this would be suicidal as NaCl. That's why we are lynching Artanis who made a claim that as town made no fucking sense at all and outed a powerrole in the process.
It makes a lot of sense if you believe he's just fucking mafia.
The crumb is obvious, and not something I think scum Artanis does very often. Town Artanis feels pressured, town Artanis feels like his role is outed anyway, so he claims. Is it really such a difficult sequence of events to understand?
If NaCl IS town and he IS doctor, he's a fucking idiot for "counterclaiming" in a closed setup in the first place. If you don't believe Artanis' claim, MAKE GOOD POINTS ABOUT IT, DON'T "COUNTERCLAIM" WITH A DIFFERENT ROLE THAN THE ONE BEING CLAIMED
It's fucking asinine that you're going along with this as well. Is town JAT honestly this fucking stupid to want to lynch into obvious claims?
Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 08:00 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:57 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:53 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:48 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:46 yamato77 wrote:
Okay, JAT, we'll make assumptions about a closed setup and then blame balance and stupid hosting postgame when you're wrong and you lynched a fucking protective role that wasn't even directly counterclaimed.
Why should I not believe Artanis' claim? And unless NaCl is literally suicidal, why the fuck would he do this as mafia? You need to answer these questions rather than just scream your assumptions in the thread.
Yes, doing this would be suicidal as NaCl. That's why we are lynching Artanis who made a claim that as town made no fucking sense at all and outed a powerrole in the process.
It makes a lot of sense if you believe he's just fucking mafia.
The crumb is obvious, and not something I think scum Artanis does very often. Town Artanis feels pressured, town Artanis feels like his role is outed anyway, so he claims. Is it really such a difficult sequence of events to understand?
If NaCl IS town and he IS doctor, he's a fucking idiot for "counterclaiming" in a closed setup in the first place. If you don't believe Artanis' claim, MAKE GOOD POINTS ABOUT IT, DON'T "COUNTERCLAIM" WITH A DIFFERENT ROLE THAN THE ONE BEING CLAIMED
It's fucking asinine that you're going along with this as well. Is town JAT honestly this fucking stupid to want to lynch into obvious claims?
It is literally irrelevant if NaCl is an idiot or not. Artanis claim makes 0 sense from a town pov. The crumb is not obvious at all.
Look, Artanis shouldn't have claimed when he did, but the crumb is quite obviously a crumb in hindsight
If you don't think it's a crumb now, I don't know what to tell you
Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 08:09 yamato77 wrote:
Fine, JAT, obviously you don't listen to me, so you can have your way.
I will have no part in this lynch however.
I don't think he ever pondered the possibility that one of the claims was false or otherwise. Artanis[Xp]'s breadcrumb did not look like a breadcrumb at all and was actually in a standard phrase that many people use in mafia so "in hindsight" it still doesn't look like a breadcrumb at all. I think he has shown that he is using too much information to make a read and that becomes very evident in this situation.
I think mig's reaction:
+ Show Spoiler +On June 06 2015 16:59 Mig wrote:Some stuff I noticed,
marv/yam interaction looks a little forced to me. Marv has to have played with yam 50 times by now. Yam is like this every game, the marv blow up seems overly emotional. I have seen marv blow up before but this seemed a bit much considering yam was just being his usual yam self. Just something to keep in mind.
Feast/artanis interaction - If either of artanis/feast are scum it is very unlikely that the other is also. The claim/counter claim/ artanis vote feast stuff is too random. Just a weird/unlikely series of interactions if the scum team planned out an artanis fake claim.
I honestly have no idea if having 2 protection roles would be OP for town or not. If mafia has a rber it doesn't seem that outlandish to me.
That being said I am fine with lynching artanis. I read through Noir mini mafia that he just played and I actually think artanis played well that game. Day1 of that game was about as useless as this day1 has been and he still managed to actually post some useful thoughts. So far today he has posted a paragraph on being a little suspicious of JTA and that's it. Along with that his story for why he claimed is meh. Alternating between claiming because he was bored and because marv mentioned his line with the word lock in it. It was fairly clear that marv wasn't even saying that it was a bread crumb just that artanis was giving superfluous commentary. Assuming that mafia would have figured out he was JK from that is retarded. Seems more likely that artanis is bsing.
Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also as scum if this had happened I'd know I'd have been caught and just afk for the rest of the day. Self-meta and all but it's probably accurate.
Kind of funny he said this, made a few more posts then disappeared for the rest of the day as well.
Artanis if you are town give your reads, make a case etc.
actually looks quite genuine and thought out, it shows that he's analytically looking at the alignments of the big event that happened in the game so far and did some background reading to make sure. His interactions points seem a bit too surface level though so a bit hesitant to add him to a town circle but definitely not in a scummy circle quite yet either.
This is getting a bit long and i'm not sure people are going to read it so for the sake of clarity
People I am happy with and think are probably town: Artanis[Xp], justanothertownie
People that I am happy with: mig, possibly fuba for analysing peoples' reactions (not mentioned in long post sorry), Alakaslam
People that I am ok with: prplhz
People that I have no idea about: VayneAuthority (not mentioned but I don't really have a clue, didn't like his reactions though), Chezinu (ignored most of the game), FecalFeast,
People I think are scum: Marvellosity, Yamato77, boxerfred (I read his past game where he was mafia and it looked very similar)
##unvote
##vote yamato77 
EPT
