EPTWitchcraft Mini Mafia III
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wherebugsgo
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feels good man | ||
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On June 06 2015 09:57 Blazinghand wrote: Basically the same challenge given how Chen scales and how beastly he is early idk for whatever reason whenever I play chen I end up severely outfarming my shitty carries I get like 8 min mek 15-16 min aghs and yet they still end up dying through double heals e: ok more like 20 min aghs | ||
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On June 08 2015 08:01 Blazinghand wrote: Welcome to Day 1! This Day ends in ~48 hours at Sunday, Jun 07 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 23:00 GMT (+00:00). wat | ||
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also if you guys could fill me in on who I should expect to suck this game and when I should be disappointed for someone sucking that would be great | ||
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who are you | ||
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##vote FreezingFoot I say we kill this foot unless he convinces us of his identity and why we should keep him alive. I for one do not want to be led by two left feet quotes about feet: The human foot is a masterpiece of engineering and a work of art. -Leonardo da Vinci (load of shit) The foot feels the foot when it feels the ground. -Buddha (wat) When you step on the brakes your life is in your foot's hands. =George Carlin (I would rather my life not be in the hands of this foot....or should it be...wait feet don't have hands) | ||
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On June 08 2015 08:21 Kickstart wrote: Satan told me that wherebugsgo is not an Acolyte as he himself didn't know what an Acolyte was. He also said that a true member of the order would know who is strongest and that the question is an attempt to infiltrate the coven and discover who our most powerful and wise Acolytes are in order to target them first. You can not fool the dark lord so easily wherebugsgo. the dark lord can suck my d&*$ | ||
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/akYsBfi.png?1) seems like your dark lord would do to me exactly as described, since I am a blasphemer Bet he'd enjoy it too, that devil! | ||
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refusing to divulge relevant information sure is! identity is a large part of mafia. | ||
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On June 08 2015 08:31 Breshke wrote: Hi So do you think someone that has chosen to smurf is more likely to reveal who they are as town or mafia then? I think they would be more likely to reveal themselves as town. Granted, a smurf does not have to reveal themselves to be useful to town. I have smurfed myself, and the reason I do it is often quite simple-most people don't ask, and those who do can be placated by providing opinions and good reads. I have never had the luxury of rolling scum while smurfing, but if I ever did I do not doubt it would be one of the easiest ways to achieve victory. It is plainly obvious why smurfing is far more advantageous to the individual player than the team as a whole. The town only benefits if the player who is smurfing is a high caliber town player, rolls town, and escapes getting shot night 1 due to being a smurf. Otherwise, town stands to gain nothing from a mediocre townie or a bad townie smurfing other than a lack of insight into the player's behaviour. You should always hold smurfs to a higher standard because if they refuse to reveal their identity then you have no background to be working with. You have no expectation of their play, and an ordinarily good townie has rolled scum on a smurf you have no way of knowing. | ||
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On June 08 2015 08:35 Kickstart wrote: But surely if you were an acolyte you would see the wisdom in ones words and not need to know the person's identity to discern its wisdom or lack thereof. Is this attempt to discern this persons true identity something useful for a member of the coven? Do you ask so that you can discredit if he does not oblige? Do you ask to know if he is a powerful and wise acolyte? Both courses of action would be beneficial to the inquisitors, while knowing his true identity or not does not matter to members of the coven. Ones words and actions matter most to the coven, not ones identity. Only an inquisitor would be so interested in ones identity over ones wisdom. Would you rather have the smurf be Foolishness, or random lurker X? What about Ace, or BloodyC0bbler? How exactly is this purely a scum-motivated question? It arguably helps town far more, given that if the smurf is town scum already know they are town and they are already automatically a threat. Knowing a player's identity is less important to scum. As scum I have left otherwise "good" townies alive to throw off towns before, simply because they were completely wrong. | ||
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On June 08 2015 08:42 Kickstart wrote: It is helpful by way of making a point. It is not helpful in so far as having the question answered because you ask the question knowing it won't be answered. If he was interested in displaying his identity he would not be in a disguise. It does not take a wise man to posit your question. you apparently don't understand. It is in town's benefit to know his identity. If he refuses while taking votes that's anti-town. So just vote him and see what he does. If he doesn't give town anything what use is he alive? His contribution to this conversation has been a gif in response to my quote post. It is early in the day, but this is a good chance to see how our smurf wants to play the game. | ||
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On June 08 2015 08:44 Breshke wrote: not really. Do you? Yeah I understand this but that doesn't make not revealing who you are to be alignment indicative. If someone has chosen to smurf they have chosen pre game that they probably don't want to reveal who they are. I feel like saying, reveal yourself or get lynched, is a waste because it depends on the player on how they will act so you can't really get much from that. No it isn't. Read what I said again. The player does not necessarily have to reveal themselves. They just have to prove they can contribute. Asking that of scum will result in one or more of a.) More questions, b.) Nothing, c.) A bunch of filler nonsense, or d.) A response that takes a lot of effort. Asking a townie will often give us something useful. It may be the actual behaviour in the response itself (and so far actually his response has been a bit useful to me in getting a read on him) and it may be the subsequent posts as we get reads/thoughts on the game/thought process from the player. a.), b.) and c.) are all great, those types of responses would warrant more votes. d.) almost never happens because scum on this forum suck. But if it did, it would take a good amount of time for it to come out and it would probably be incredibly underwhelming from a scum. Also to talk about this now instead of when mafia will be trying to hunt roles. I think it is best in at least the first phase that a lot of the chosen powers are information type roles specifically scrying What?? Mafia are always hunting roles. I also don't understand, is this supposed to be separate from the previous part of the post? Are you saying that the people who are voted to get roles choose investigative ones? | ||
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On June 08 2015 08:48 FreezingFoot wrote: It's not a scum motivated question. But you questioned nothing. it is a scum behaviour. It's basically a policy lynch that you get behind without compromising yourself. You won't have to rely on building original reads. You just see a townie and justify a push on him without actually caring for his alignment. So it's a scum behaviour to question nothing...at the beginning of day 1, when by definition there is nothing to question. Where do you come up with this logic? | ||
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No you don't, because you repeatedly have shown an inability to read what I am saying. I have said twice now that a smurf DOES NOT HAVE TO REVEAL THEMSELVES to satisfy my line of questioning. I simply want more out of this particular player. The responses I have received so far have been relatively lukewarm at best. However, I'm going to step it up a bit further. I agree with your general premise but not your methodology. I have already said the important question in regards to our mystery man is whether he will use his identity to impart wisdom and knowledge or to sow confusion. So did I, you just failed to read where I said it. Twice. Now three times, actually, and if you count this now, four. You seem to miss the point that had he been interested in revealing his identity he would have done so. This goes back to my earlier question to you: Do you ask him to reveal his identity so that when he refuses you can accuse him? Why would a member of the coven do such a thing when they already know that the outcome will be that he does not revel himself. Nope. You're not reading. Keep this up and I'm going to just ignore you. Your argument so far has been that his withholding his identity is suspicious and his posting style thus far is suspicious. But if we do not know his identity how can we judge his posting style as indicative of anything? All that said, our mystery man does need to choose his path. He either gives us wisdom and clarity or he sows confusion, and his fate is decided by which course of action he chooses to take. Nope. I am saying you do not understand because, well...you don't. Let me clarify for you what has happened so far, and what is now worth discussing. On June 08 2015 08:21 FreezingFoot wrote: Btw I don't like this opening. Sounds like a guy trying too hard do say "oh I'm town /sob", and asking people for names to work with. He doesn't like my opening. Sign #1 he doesn't like me. Cool. Let's skip over his direct response to my vote, because it was useless. Third post following my vote: On June 08 2015 08:48 FreezingFoot wrote: It's not a scum motivated question. But you questioned nothing. it is a scum behaviour. It's basically a policy lynch that you get behind without compromising yourself. You won't have to rely on building original reads. You just see a townie and justify a push on him without actually caring for his alignment. What I exhibited is a "scum behaviour" according to Freezingfoot. He didn't like my original post, and he thinks I am not trying to build original reads. He claims I don't care about his alignment. Fourth post: On June 08 2015 09:00 FreezingFoot wrote: Tell us who you are? It will help town = town approach You're mafia because you're not telling us who you are = scum approach. Implicitly calling my approach scum approach. But not directly doing it. If Freezingfoot thinks my approach is so scummy, in four straight posts.... Why doesn't he vote me? If he tries to get me killed directly that would be one thing, but he's just weakly throwing back mud at me. | ||
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So far his defense has been completely lackluster and I don't need his identity to know that he's probably not going to have very useful opinions if he is town. | ||
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On June 08 2015 09:05 Kickstart wrote: Also, while you try to say otherwise, you are clearly trying to subtly push the idea that him withholding his identity is anti town behavior when it isn't. Him refusing to give his identity was decided before his alignment was known, therefor it can not be purposely anti-town for him, it isn't indicative of anything. You are in effect saying "if he votes he is anti-town" which is ludicrous. You do have a point in saying that a smurf can be harmful to town, but again, this does not give us any indication of the smurfs alignment. You consider someone taking a mislynch over revealing their identity to be town-favored? Are you serious? | ||
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On June 08 2015 09:09 yamato77 wrote: If this game were a DotA game I'd be picking Terrorblade right about now. talk to me, yo. tell me what you think about, specifically: 1. FreezingFoot's entrance into the game 2. FreezingFoot's response to my vote 3. Kickstart 4. Anyone else who has posted so far 5. Who you think has the potential to have good opinions | ||
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I did not read the playerlist before signing up | ||
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On June 08 2015 09:14 Kickstart wrote: Bugs is also quick to say that he is about to ignore me and that FreezingFoot is not worth listening to. Interesting. I did not say or imply that. But again you are painting foot into a corner of no matter what he does he is scum. You are saying/implying that if he ever votes on someone who gets lynched and flips town without revealing who he is first he is anti-town. This is again ludicrous. But I've said enough on this topic, time for others to weigh in. No, I'm not saying he's scum no matter what. Given his responses I have no qualms calling him scum, which is in stark contrast to the fact that he thinks I am scum yet doesn't do jack about it. You also did not even read what I said. I said he is anti town if HE IS ABOUT TO GET LYNCHED AND DOESN'T REVEAL HIS IDENTITY not if he votes someone. You need to slow down and read my posts more carefully before you start jumping to conclusions. | ||
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On June 08 2015 09:20 FreezingFoot wrote: I'd like you to go further in this. Why it is a scum behaviour NOT revealing his identity to SURVIVE? Another person who can't read, but that's probably because you're scum Let me break it down for anyone else who is reading this and is confused for whatever weird reason. Player A is a smurf. Player A takes five votes and is about to be lynched Player A refuses to reveal his identity Does that make Player A more or less likely to be scum? Would you call it a bad play if Player A flipped town? Why the hell would a town smurf not reveal themselves if they are about to get lynched? Townies should do anything in their power to prevent themselves from getting lynched, including revealing their identity and/or role. This is not necessarily true for scum because sometimes scum dying silently can be very helpful (often in the case of bussing this is true) Disregarding all of this, the most damning thing about FreezingFoot right now is the refusal to come out and play. I do not get a sense of interest from FreezingFoot. This could simply come down to not knowing what to do, but that's hard to believe given that smurfs are generally experienced. Why is FreezingFoot painting me as scummy, but doing it in such a weak manner? Why was FreezingFoot's first post a request for witchcraft votes? Why does FreezingFoot not try to participate in discussion when there is plenty of discussion happening? | ||
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So far I am quite disappointed, I was hoping we'd have a good town smurf. Looks more like we have a crappy townie hiding behind a smurf or, in the best case scenario, a scum. | ||
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On June 08 2015 09:34 FreezingFoot wrote: I understood it correctly and I'm asking you to answer the exact question you are making. Why is it scummy to not reveal the identity? Sorry, don't say someone can't read when the problem is that you can't express yourself properly. On June 08 2015 09:35 batsnacks wrote: Brother You're doing it wrong. Tell him why it's not scummy don't ask him why it is scummy or you'll be here all night. It's scummy to ask questions under pressure instead of answering them. If your only argument is that I cannot express myself properly, I invite you to vote your #1 scum read right now. | ||
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On June 08 2015 09:00 Breshke wrote: It is literally impossible for them to hunt roles at the moment. Also yes that is what I am saying. I know a lot of people would be tempted to choose a vest but if we get three vests then it is a waste. What great response are you espexting from the smurf at this stage though? It feels like only A, B and C are the possible reactions at this stage I dont see how town or scum would give D I'm not expecting a "great response" I'm expecting something that makes sense when you qualify it from a town perspective. I find it hard to believe that a good townie who thinks that someone else (me) has entered the game in a poor fashion, as FrozenFoot described my entrance would be more forthcoming about their scum read on me. I would expect a townie to use the opportunity to establish their own innocence, and if they truly believe that their accuser is scum, to put a vote on them and qualify it with good reasoning. So far FrozenFoot's responses have not fallen into this category. He repeatedly calls me scum but does not vote me, repeatedly asks useless questions instead of responding to posts, and repeatedly cherry-picks the identity focus of my posts instead of responding to the rest of my arguments. Me going after his identity was purely done to create discussion. We have a fairly elucidative response from FrozenFoot now, and as long as his responses are as consistently bad as they have been already I think FrozenFoot remains a good lynch candidate. The only argument right now that would work in FrozenFoot's favor is that he is a bad townie. While this is not out of the question that FrozenFoot could potentially be smurfing to try a strategy or because he has a bad reputation as town, I would rather not assume someone is bad and leave them alive because of it. I suppose it might be useful to know the answer to the following question: FrozenFoot, we know you are smurfing because you don't want us to know your identity. But why? Why do you want us to not know your identity? Smurfs should fully expect that other players in the game have only the current game to work with when attempting to identify them. I think it's fairly obvious already what we can expect. | ||
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On June 08 2015 09:52 Bill Murray wrote: This game has already ascended the RVS so I kind of feel bad promoting such a shitty play but I just can't help myself to stoop to that level sometimes. There are a few important facts about this game First, this is Reverse Mafia. The good guys are bad, and the bad guys are good. I feel that this brings a couple things into the equation 1) It should make me a valuable player, considering we basically have a scum-style-town 2) scumhunting becomes a little different; people who are bad may have a superiority complex I see you haven't changed much | ||
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On June 08 2015 09:53 FreezingFoot wrote: Dude, you are scum reading me for something that makes no one scum. I want to understand your thought process before forming a solid read on you. I am NOT answering a question YOU were supposed to clarify. You're actually not answering anything, it literally does not matter what I ask of you. I'll leave it up to the other players to decide what they think. I have no problems killing you regardless of alignment at this point, since if you are indeed town you are pretty much worthless. | ||
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a.) He's literally the first person whose thread entrance I didn't like, and the first person I focused on. I will freely admit I am fairly tunneled, but given his responses I can live with this b.) He might very well just be terrible at town, given that the vast majority of players (including myself) are terrible at catching scum | ||
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On June 08 2015 10:01 batsnacks wrote: I think he's scumming him because instead of saying why not revealing isn't alignment indicative (it's not), he beat around the bush omgusing and asking questions. That's like a triple negative but I can't think of better words. it's a combination of all of those things. The worst by far is the accusation without a vote. | ||
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yamato Onegu You're some of the only players I recognize in the list so I would appreciate knowing your opinions on the situation at hand | ||
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On June 08 2015 11:19 FreezingFoot wrote: Oh I get it. I just want him to clarify this point before I do something else "I just want to keep going in circles so I don't have to actually do anything" | ||
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I consider what he did to be one of the more genuinely town things in this thread. To keep the focus let's talk about things are more relevant for now, unless any of you think I am mistaken-if so, I welcome your opinion and do not mind having a discourse on why you disagree. I like starting off strongly because day 1 is generally a wash unless town gets lucky or scum are bad. The hardest part is starting a discussion, but I would hope that the frequency of my posts and the things I have pointed out about FrozenFoot are enough to get us moving forward. | ||
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On June 08 2015 11:34 FreezingFoot wrote: Lol dude you can't be town. I didn't engage your arguments directly or instantly called you scum to see until when you would still push this matter. My first strike was "I've never had a scumread this quick in a mafia game", but since your reasons were too stupid, I thought you could be town trying to get discussion getting traction. So if I completely shut down your arguments I would break discussion development. The thing is: if you're town doing that, you'll drop those arguments quickly because they aren't made to hold water. So I decided I would give you space so I could analyse you better. You're still pushing a dumb matter, which makes me sure you're mafia trying to get behind a ridiculous policy lynch. You're mafia. this dude is sure I am mafia but isn't voting me right | ||
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On June 08 2015 11:36 FreezingFoot wrote: Oh, votes are made in this thread? ##Vote: wherebugsgo oh there we go took you long enough to realize you can't live without doing that | ||
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On June 08 2015 13:41 FreezingFoot wrote: This post reveals how contrived his behaviour regarding smurfing is. He admits if there is a very good player smurfing, it is benefical to town because the town smurf can avoid a night kill. In other words, he understands that there is also mafia motivation to know who the player is, so they can know how to deal with him. Why does he insist in having the disguised person figured out then? This is also horrible because if you actually needed a player's background to properly play mafia, there would be no newbie games. So, his arguments are clearly forced / fabricated, as already revealed. It's not beneficial because the town smurf can avoid a night kill. It's only beneficial when that townie actually does something, which is usually the case when they are good. Which is why I told you, if that's the case (and you would know!) you certainly don't have to reveal yourself. Your failure to recognize this point is now really damning. I have pointed it out multiple times, yet you are completely fixated on cherry picking my posts. I have invited you to provide scumreads, and invited you to answer many questions that could prove without a shadow of a doubt that you are indeed town, but repeatedly you have failed to do so. If I were scum I would shoot the person with the best reads. It's clearly not you, because you're scum. It wouldn't matter if I'm talking to Foolishness in this game (and you're certainly not him) because your logic and your behaviour is unexplainable from a town perspective. You selectively cherry pick my posts in a way that paints you in the best light, and you repeatedly attempt to undermine my arguments by calling them bad without a shred of evidence backing you up. I'm going to stop crapping up the thread with you directly now, since it's probably just going to continue to scare people off from posting...although I don't really like how slow everyone is to come in and get involved. Again, to everyone in the game: PLEASE contribute, because we need a valid and diverse set of good perspectives to win this game of elimination. | ||
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On June 08 2015 13:57 Kickstart wrote: Again, for what it is worth, you both make valid points. Time for others to chime in and not lurk, whether on this topic of discussion or something else. You think his points are valid?? looool He claims he's not "omgusing" even though he more or less called me scum immediately after I voted him. This is not to "give me space". To me it looks like he's just very self-aware of his image. That's not very common among townies. | ||
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On June 08 2015 14:16 FreezingFoot wrote: Your first paragraph is full of shit. If it was really your thought process, you wouldn't be trying to gather votes on me behind a policy. I can't do much in 6 hours of game and something like 6 pages on thread 90% of it is you saying nonsensical, WIFOMy stuff about smurfing. I'm not cherry picking, I'm stating clear sentences in which I reveal how your reads are fabricated / forced. I've just stated mafia priority is survivability so your argument of being about to be lynched and not revealing your identity is stupid. A lot of players die night 1 even if they have wrong reads because they have this good player status, while a lot of people that have good reads stay alive because they can't get people lynches because they have this bad player status. You know that or you wouldn't talk about the NK dodge thing a smurf can have. So, you're contraticting yourself right now just to fit your scumread on me properly. I've just brought new information in the thread: I said I willingly refused to shut down your arguments to give you more space so I could have more information to work regarding you, I revealed how your not-revealing-identity thing doesn't fit scum perspective, and I've already showed that aggressiveness isn't a reliable town tell. What do you think of these stuff? I think you're bad. Enough said | ||
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anyone else agree with me? | ||
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I don't need your opinion on FF anymore but would like to know who you dislike aside from the lurkers. I think we have two potential lynches that are far better than lurker lynches. I aould give one of them like 95% chance of turning scum. I'm wondering if you have seen any player you would put in that category. | ||
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On June 09 2015 03:36 batsnacks wrote: Who are the two mafia and who are the 5 highly likely townies? I'm going to take a guess: do your scumreads have anything to do with someone accidentally revealing a smurf? I'm not going to say who the 5 townies are, but I am fairly certain on those 5 players and 1 of the 2 people I think are scum. And no, that has nothing to do with it. I was just looking over all of the players in the game and reading their reactions to what ended up happening. One player in particular stood out. | ||
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On June 09 2015 04:01 batsnacks wrote: It might be a good time to ask then why tubesock knows that foots is female. really? I didn't catch this | ||
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On June 09 2015 04:08 batsnacks wrote: Someone also said they thought foots was rsoultin before. idk, I personally wouldn't put much into that. First it was he/she and it could have been a matter of convenience to say "she". I know some people default to female pronouns when they are unsure. Even so, Tubesock could know FF's identity through some other means, e.g. they talked to a particular player and knew they were going to smurf in this game. With that said though, if Tubesock indeed does know FF's identity then it makes them both far more likely to be scum. That would be unfortunate (and rather weird, too) because I actually don't really think that's the case right now. ##unvote Gonna think for a bit, the lack of feedback from players is a little disappointing. bats, talk to me a bit. What do you think of other players in the game right now? Is this what you would expect from town yamato, onegu, Lightning? Have you played with Bill Murray before, and do you think he is town this game? | ||
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On June 09 2015 04:23 Kickstart wrote: Wake up to only 2 pages of posts.............. underwhelming. I have to get ready and spend the next several hours at a dinner and graduation so will be away again. Someone do something controversial. Also don't witchcraft vote me I don't want to be silver bulleted  talk with me, you can address the same questions I asked of bat in my previous post | ||
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I think Lightning is like 95% scum. At first in my notes I had Lightning as having a scummy entrance, focusing a lot on asking people questions but using a tone and posting style that is very non-confrontational. This causes LS's posts to come off as forced and I find it hard to piece together his logic if he were town. e.g. this post: On June 08 2015 08:49 LightningStrike wrote: I kinda dislike his pressure on FreezingFoot since FreezingFoot could be a smurf and him calling him out so early just seems like it's a preplanned motion from him regardless of his alignment so null. Notice the qualifications I've bolded here. He doesn't like it, but goes back and says oh I guess it could be preplanned. So it's null. Null is not a read. There's also this that follows: On June 08 2015 08:50 LightningStrike wrote: Also sure it would be nice knowing FreezingFoot's aka but it's not as important as finding scum. Notice LS says it's not as important as finding scum but LS doesn't actually ever attempt to find scum. Half of LS's posts focus on "hey I'll be back later" and are also seemingly very self-aware. e.g: On June 08 2015 09:02 LightningStrike wrote: Well guys I going to get some dinner and when I come back I will check everything that goes on after this post! Townies don't generally do this so freaking often. You don't need to announce to everyone that you're going to do your job as a townie, unless you are very new or scum. So at first I ignored LS because I thought, maybe I'm wrong and this dude is new. I needed more info, however, so I posted this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486363-witchcraft-mini-mafia-iii?page=14#262 while looking into LS's past games. TL Mafia database has a LOT of games for LS. So he is NOT a new player. This instantly made me more suspicious, but I wanted to see if as town LS was more confident and helpful. Turns out, LS is one of those players I would say has a very clear cut difference between town and mafia. I would suggest you all to skim over some of LS's past games, but in particular the ones that stand out are: Jack of All Trades Horn of Africa Student Mini Mafia (although this one is from when LS was newer) XXX Mini Mafia Compare these quotes in the spoilers: + Show Spoiler + 1. LightningStrike wrote: I'm back and I finding Geript pretty townie this game but than again I never played vs his Mafia yet but so far I feel he's pushing and asking a ton of questions is pretty much him being town. Slam is thinking logically so far although I hate how he suggested a RNG shot Blazinghand style but he been pushing out ideas and not being boring like he was in Slytherin and Student IV when he was Mafia so I giving him a town read by meta. HTS looks really shakey and starting to look a tiny bit like her Void and Newbie LX Mafia games so possible Mafia by meta. rsoultin I love you and all but I need some extra time on you from the fact that I just coming off of 2 games of you being Mafia and might get some paranoia which I might have still on HTS because I not completely forgiven her for lynching me in Newbie LX. But you being very cheerful so far but idk if that is alignment indicative. Tubesock I hated the No Shoot idea but the logic behind it seems townie but I have yet to see him play as Mafia. Breshke is asking some questions and also reconsider his own thoughts and looks townie. Damdred you need to bleed town this game to me because the last time I played with you in Titanic you were Mafia yet you looked so townie in my eyes I just couldn't really play right  Your Mom and Sepulchre are both smurfs and idk their other ids but I finding Sepulchre pretty townie on his large post and asking questions with some good explanations for why he thought of stuff like HTS making them intentionally bad or bait and his thing on OBS but I remember OBS having bad Day 1s as town so I would give OBS some extra time to see if he bleeds town. Your Mom haven't posted much either and got Null on him simply because he got very short questions and posts so far so I might need more posts from him to see where he lies for now. vs 2. LightningStrike wrote: Town: Eden: Played with before when he was Mafia and Town but we he seems to be town this game. Geript: Toneread says town he seems to ask some good questions. Snickers: Being extremely serious and giving his thoughts freely it kind of reminds me of a more serious me. Oatsmaster: Trying to get discussions going with pms and stuff but also he just being himself as town this game. Liancourt: He seems interested this game which is a good sign for him being town although I never him play as Mafia before. Null: Koshi: 1 post from him this game and it isn't really alignment indicative. sicklucker: I can't read him anymore on Day 1 after playing with him when he was Mafia and I was town. Also his Day 1 is bad. VisceraEyes: 1 post and wasn't alignment indicative need more posts from him. Both summary posts, early in the game. Answer: + Show Spoiler + 1 = mafia, 2 = town 1. LightningStrike wrote: I don't disagree for now on the Eden read. Rsoultin just seems to happy to be Mafia given she played as Mafia twice in a row into Town with me lol. I'm sorry I was Mafia in that game Damdred it just hurt when you called me Mafia but Geript carried me till he died and did a hilarious bus on Sandroba when sicklucker got lynched lol........ vs 2. LightningStrike wrote: Okay what reasoning you got for voting Damdred because I don't see anything but just the vote onto him without a explanation. Answer: + Show Spoiler + Both town 1 LightningStrike wrote: I agree with you on kita Rayn considering a lot has happened since his last post and not really commenting anything relevant except for the shot ideas. Also I remember Toad being mostly carefree early in Hammertime when I was a Cohost when he was Town and he coming across the same way so I incline to think he's town. Rayn you know how to read Sicklucker from my past experience with you and him together any thoughts on Sicklucker so far? vs 2 LightningStrike wrote: I now also torn because I like the case from JAT but HF does seem to play his town meta at the same time from Void Mafia I guess I will need to Yolo on one of them :| rsoultin and Breshke can you read HF's filter from Void Mafia and JAT's filter from Void also please? Here is their filters: Town Holyflare: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475749-the-void-mafia?user=Holyflare Scum JAT (Smurfing): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475749-the-void-mafia?user=Wile E. Coyote vs 3 LightningStrike wrote: Sorry I was playing LoL game and HF's case on JAT is legit now that we seen HF flip Town and he made many good points on JAT and honestly the bully behavior that JAT displayed this game when people were voting is consistent with his behavior in Void mafia where he bullied people off him in the entire game as scum. Here's his filter from that game although he just was smurfing in that game that is why the name might be off His scum game in Void: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475749-the-void-mafia?user=Wile E. Coyote answer: + Show Spoiler + 1 = Mafia, 2, 3 = Town 1. LightningStrike wrote: I'm back and sicklucker is fighting Breshke instead of the other cell mates o.o Also Geript being mad at Kita too and Tube fighting Geript this is interesting stuff going on here and personally I never played in a Cell Setup before so this interesting. Also Geript claimed he got Vig powers and claimed to had shot Sep but yet Sep survived so most likely Ninja in Sep if what Geript was saying is true. I will admit I guarded the Button since we don't know what the button does I thought it was safe play since it kind of like the presents in Carol where we gotten random Presents 1 from a Mass Murderer when unwraped instant kill the person 1 with a Cop power for the Night and 1 with a Vig Shot for the Night and since it prob pure rng what we get I really don't want to give Mafia extra powers or extra powers for ninjas either and weighed it in myself and decided to guard the button. vs 2. LightningStrike wrote: Sorry for not posting much and a update on reading Sandro's past games and will come up with stuff for tomorrow and sicklucker paranoia went through my head sorry and now seeing some light that you are more likely town than Mafia. Tomorrow I will present my findings on Sandro's past games as both alignments and present everything I have on him. vs 3. LightningStrike wrote: I was just wating for more posts to get some better reads that why I haven't posted much because there was really much for me to ready. I still waiting for alakaslam, Dicksmash McIroncock, and Meatpudding to post. My reads are atm the following Town: Oatsmaster, sicklucker, Damdred, kushm4sta, Trfel Null: Half the Sky, Breshke, Alakaslam Scum: Dicksmash McIroncock, Meatpudding. Dicksmash didn't post anything after his first post for the day and Meatpudding is either trolling us with the stuff he posted earlier or he scum but time will tell. Alakaslam at least gave a good explanation for his posts. Breshke gave a explanation on why he voted for sicklucker Half the Sky made some decent posts but it reads null in my eyes but I still kind of new to TL Mafia (2nd game in TL mafia). vs 4. LightningStrike wrote: Guys fyi I wont be here from about 11:45 am to at least 4:30 pm CST and I still think Sandroba is Mafia based on meta and Oats I getting him as Town as he playing like he did in Office, Void, and New Years Eve Party where he was a little lazy but he seemed a little motivated now to play the game although I wished he had played on Day 1 but he's here now. 5. On March 08 2015 22:39 LightningStrike wrote: Just woke up and will answer your question. Tubesock I thinking some resemblances of her last game in Titanic now and Day 1 I had paranoia because before Titanic when I played her she was Mafia and rolled Mafia in another game too. The reason I seeing some resemblances from this game to Titanic because in that game she also was confused on setup stuff esp on the fact we had 2 Jail Keepers ( Nigella in Carol) and she having some confusions this game on setup stuff too. So a slight Town meta read on her. Onegu since you confirmed town by the Cop Check I will do as you ask just promise me you shoot Geript okay? HTS Happy Birthday Girl I assuming you going to party for a bit  ##Unvote ##Vote: Onegu Answer: + Show Spoiler + All scum LS's scum play is very very non confrontational and he generally gets away pretty well with just asking questions and making excuses for not having strong opinions or posting much. Tends to be very self-conscious in the thread when he rolls scum, which makes it very easy to recognize him  | ||
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On June 09 2015 05:53 LightningStrike wrote: Okay bugs is totes town he got very similar formatting and stuff to his latest town games to his scum games and his line of questioning to FreezingFoot is also similar how did his line of questioning in his town games. Also Bugs I do tend to do that hey I will be back later stuff a lot regardless of my alignment Also I truly was bored on the smurf debate mainly because it isn't exactly important to know who the smurf is although would be helpful for meta purposes :o Now that the game isn't focused on the great smurf debate I also got a meta read on bats being town he always a interesting person I just hope he doesn't lynch himself again :O Onegu haven't done much so null on him meta wise.No you don't, the manner in which you are doing it in and talking this game is almost exclusively in your scum games. Could be a matter of coincidence but I highly doubt that The best part of this post is the "reads" which are both townish/null reads. | ||
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On June 09 2015 05:57 batsnacks wrote: Wow that's not what I was expecting at all. 95% is way too high, I wouldn't go higher than 30%. I've played with LS a bunch and I personally think he's really hard to read; I think this game is well within what he's capable of as town. I wonder what LS will think about this. Doesn't matter if you think he is hard to read, evaluate his play based on his behaviour, not based on what he is "capable" of. Lots of people skirt by as scum because the expectations for them as townies are low. However they end up getting overlooked because people think that expected contribution level is somehow correlated with alignment. It isn't-the only thing that matters is behaviour and what you can reasonably expect from one perspective vs the other. Ask yourself why LS would give out null and town reads but never actually finger anyone in particular. For example why is the bolded: On June 09 2015 05:33 LightningStrike wrote: Ya my activity isn't exactly stellar but that because the smurf debate bored me. Also bats is right on Yamatos meta in that Yamato usually doesn't do shit as scum compared to his town games and he haven't done shit so far I guess Yamato rolled scum for the 4th time in a row Also Kick I gave you a small sample of my games both old and new games there is plenty other games in the database if you willing to do a meta read on me. Mean time I prob should look at Bugs meta and see where it lines up.##Vote: Yamato77 The first sentence in this post? Why did he choose to mention that at all? From the town games of LS's that I have read/skimmed he almost never does that. I somewhat agree on Yamato, it is worrying that he is not doing anything, but this is also one of the lowest-common-denominator lynches that is currently responsible. In the context of the current game Yamato was originally slated as a replacement. There's probably a good reason he signed up as a replacement instead of simply signing up normally, so I would definitely not consider lynching yamato day 1. He has too much potential (and based on the few posts he has made so far I find it hard to believe that anyone can confidently call him scum at this point) | ||
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I have seen good townies eat votes and even lynches simply because they had an off game or because a bunch of sheep agreed with one dude who thought, "hey this player is supposed to be good and their arguments don't make sense to me". Don't base lynches on expectation unless you have other good evidence to support it. | ||
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On June 09 2015 06:10 batsnacks wrote: Every game I've played where yamato is mafia he pretty much afk/non-committed into death and he has mentioned when he was town that he is (paraphrasing) "part of the old guard of players who are incapable of emulating their town play as mafia." The only post I remember from him so far is him saying this is about when he should pick terrorblade. I think that's at least decent evidence already and his activity-tell considered I don't think it's productive for you to be defending him. I'm not defending him. I just don't think he's a good day 1 lynch. We have better leads to work with right now. At best he's a last-resort lynch that I would be okay with assuming something drastic changes. | ||
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On June 09 2015 05:52 Bill Murray wrote: i know so btw what does BM know here does he know I'm town? why is he voting me? | ||
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On June 09 2015 06:29 yamato77 wrote: alright dudes, it's high time I played this game you can start by responding to my posts | ||
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On June 09 2015 06:42 batsnacks wrote: Let's do a fun poll: Bugs is pushing stuff and I want to find out how compelling people think bug's pushes are. Choose the graph that you think best describes the strength and compelling-ness of bug's pushes over time: A: y = some integer constant ; (the strength and compelling-ness of bugs pushes has stayed the same over time) + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/69rozuN.png) B: y = -x + 8 ; (the strength and compelling-ness of bugs pushes is decreasing linearly over time) + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OXhj4UG.png) C: y = x ; (the strength and compelling-ness of bugs pushes is increasing linearly over time) + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/J9SPJhL.png) D: y = sqrt(x) ; (the strength and compelling-ness of bugs pushes is decreasing exponentially over time) + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TI9epzH.png) E: y = (x^2)/8 ; (the strength and compelling-ness of bugs pushes is increasing exponentially over time) + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wviCi5S.png) F. y = e^x. growth is always exponential! On June 09 2015 07:16 Kickstart wrote: WBG said there are better lynches than yamato, who are they? Going to convention center for graduation, help meeeeeeeeeee. BBS~ read my post on LS. I think he's the best lynch for today | ||
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when a player refuses to come out and play I tunnel them so that they'll actually do something. I do however strongly disagree with you, my argument was not fixated on him being a smurf. However, if you don't agree that smurfs have a greater onus to establish their own innocence I have to ask you what the point of smurfing is. Clearly identity plays a role, otherwise players wouldn't smurf in the first place. So please don't make the tired argument that getting FF to play is like getting any other player to play. That's not true at all. | ||
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On June 09 2015 08:20 yamato77 wrote: It should be otherwise you're just wasting your breath honestly. It was entirely too early in the game for that sort of pressure, especially on a smurf. If he's a lurky scummy fuck we lynch him, if he isn't we don't. It's simple mafia. All your pressure essentially did was entrench him in his position and make it more unlikely for him to actually comment on other people, but that doesn't really seem to be a problem so whatever. it's not my fault he's bad On June 09 2015 08:17 LightningStrike wrote: The bolded is simply misrepresenting me I had shown how I cared about I look a lot as both alignments so at best that should be null to you. Also I starting to have som doubt that you are scum now but only slightly. Bleed town for me please? no you haven't these posts are all from the same game, back to back + Show Spoiler + LightningStrike wrote: I going to bed now it's kinda late and when I come back I will check everything! LightningStrike wrote: Okay I woke up. Holyflare it's because I was townreading Bill despite his short filter but I liked some of his stuff esp his questions towards Eden when he was here. The fact that you were so certain he was scum kinda reminds me of our time in Carol when you thought 27ninjabunnies was Mafia when she was a Miller that game and was lackluster after that lynch. Also when I said it had be 1 at least 1 of you 3 being Mafia you don't look as bad as Rayn and Palmar esp because of their switches to BM esp they weren't giving much reasons to switch. LightningStrike wrote: Also now going to watch the Euoprean LCS now I was playing a LoL match so when breaks happen I will respond to every that goes towards me! LightningStrike wrote: I'm here for a few mins and saw nothing towards me. Free to ask me questions while I'm here guys  LightningStrike wrote: Okay next match is starting I will be gone for a little bit! Leave me questions here if you got any for me! LightningStrike wrote: Okay I'm here for a bit. I see nothing to answer for me. So rsoultin any thoughts on Vivax arguing with Damdred atm? LightningStrike wrote: Okay the next game is about to start going to disappear for awhile. Rsoultin answer my question soon please! LightningStrike wrote: Okay I;m back and the blue claims are coming through fast o.o Okay rsoultin I looked and your filter and just hate Vivax lol..... Okay so two vig claims is very weird idk the chances that we have 2 Town Vigs esp with a Tracker claim from Rayn. I kinda confused now on this :| Answer (should be obvious): + Show Spoiler + All scum posts compare this to: + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/474146-newbie-mini-mafia-lx?user=LightningStrike <- Read this and see if he ever bullshits about being around and asking people to talk with him. Never-always puts forth things without even being asked. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/473002-metal-mini-mafia?page=8#149 <- here he enters the thread remorsefully but proceeds to play in a very straightforward manner afterward. He actively contributes to discussion about what he thinks about other players instead of asking tons of questions and feigning being dumb On March 28 2015 11:30 LightningStrike wrote: You not really giving much stuff outside of saying you agree with the plan and never really gave criticism on his thing and you weren't as carefree as your last town game in XXX so ofc your entrance had a different tone. Also the way you talked to him reminded me of a thing in Campus Day 1 by 2 Mafia members. just look at the tone of this last quote. LS exudes confidence here, pointing out specifics in things he doesn't like. similarly this post On December 17 2014 23:43 LightningStrike wrote: I will answer this myself and I found the case weak because sickluckers Day 1 normally isn't productive in the first place every game I been with sicklucker from the start so I would rather see his Day 2 to see if he scum or not. short posts, but effective in establishing his innocence. also this one: On December 18 2014 00:58 LightningStrike wrote: I did check out Russia Today where he was scum if I read the end game stuff correctly and honestly his Day 1 there he wasn't leading discussions at Day 1 which the opposite what he's doing this game. The reason I finally mention my TR on Plamar was because I did check Russia Today last night but I was extremely tired from having only 6 hours of sleep the night before so I didn't put the TR on him but rereading the stuff now I not tired I feel he town based on Russia today which was his last game he played before this one. This one is interesting but it contains an excuse "I was extremely tried from having only 6 hours of sleep" but compare the difference in tone. This complaint stands alone in this particular filter that I found but it's not the focus of the post. The tone comes across very differently than his posts as scum. | ||
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this game is still slow as hell despite my attempts to stir discussion. Half the town hasn't voted and there are like 3 people who have either not posted or have barely posted. It's demoralizing. | ||
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On June 09 2015 08:44 Bill Murray wrote: WBG is the most obvious scumandeer i've seen in my life Guy is trying to steer the thread and needs lynched do you pride yourself in being bad or scum every game? | ||
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ROFL going to ignore you now. I would suggest everyone else do the same | ||
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at any given point in the game if there are some people who are "obvious" townies they will eat silver bullets for breakfast. Mafia having up to 3 KP in one night is no joke, even if it has the opportunity to miss, when blue roles are collectively determined by townies. Town could get decimated. Silver bullet can't be stopped even if you are good enough to nail a scum with RB, which really sucks, and you can't claim in the cycle afterward because you'll get shot. Overall I feel like the roles are more or less detrimental to town because they expose the best townies. Meh.... | ||
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On June 09 2015 09:05 batsnacks wrote: ***directed at kickstart Come on man. It's not that bad. This game is already slow as hell is ignoring anything really the right choice? yes, because it's a waste of time trying to converse with people who can't read | ||
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On June 09 2015 09:36 batsnacks wrote: People still haven't posted yet can we honestly say WBG is the best lynch? Even if you scum read him he is the biggest contributor this game so far; he has contributed to his lynch! Can we honestly lynch the biggest contributor d1? dude you're doing it wrong BM is gonna read this post and bastardize it into "but this is why we need to lynch him! It's how he acts as scum!" jubjubs gonna jubjub ![[image loading]](http://apps.startribune.com/blogs/user_images/jubjub.jpg) | ||
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![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TkGAIjsfdT0/U8wcpwTEcuI/AAAAAAAAByQ/ipo7YZ5I3d4/s1600/tumblr_ma60zlRdhJ1qbhnrvo1_500.png) | ||
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On June 09 2015 10:07 Kickstart wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: wherebugsgo For threatening to ignore half the players in the game. Stop it. that's a great reason to vote a player! | ||
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On June 09 2015 10:10 Kickstart wrote: I had exchanges with you earlier. And yes someone being hostile to everyone is a decent reason. I'm not hostile to everyone. Just hostile to people who can't read. Admittedly you failed the read test when you repeatedly misunderstood what I am saying. BM is just completely antitown regardless of what he is. There is no way you can hold a proper conversation with a player like him. The fact that you are sheeping his vote just cements my opinion that you're not a good player. | ||
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The number of times I was scum with him is 1. The only reason I died was because a third party (IIRC) vigged me. BM has no idea how I play as scum. | ||
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On June 09 2015 10:16 Kickstart wrote: What you think doesn't much matter to me. Nice continuation of defending yourself by calling everyone else bad though, I give you an A+ on being a douche this game. When you think half the players in the game are worth ignoring you might be in the wrong game. Also in what universe is calling the other players bad or dumb or unable to read or worth ignoring "good for town"; you seem quick to point on when someone is doing something you deem "anti-town" but don't apply the same thinking to what you yourself have been doing. Anyways I've said my piece on this matter, if all you have to say is that someone is bad or worth ignoring don't waste your time posting it. since when does being a douche = scum? thanks. I'll ask for a replacement out of this game. I should continue not playing on this forum. | ||
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18hJSlotqO9cGIaINjn3EQtuMrxz1p6SH_G4algS3Otk/edit#gid=0 I don't have an interest in playing when no one else has an interest in playing | ||
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LS IS STILL THE BEST LYNCH. We need to consolidate quickly or we risk no-lynching. Possibly worse, we risk lynching into a player who hasn't even done anything yet, on pure policy. Yes, lurkers are bad. Yes, lynching lurkers is nice, but ONLY when you have no decent alternative. This game is actually not as bad as ones I've been in before, given that BM is BM and probably scum anyway, and he's the major reason this game sucks (because there happen to be some people who somehow agree with his shit logic) To give you an idea of what you are sheeping if you agree with BM, just take a look at this gem: On June 08 2015 15:47 Bill Murray wrote: ad hominem is a logical fallacy and indicative of scum anyway there's not much else to say about BM other than he's probably one of the bottom 3 players on this forum regardless of this alignment, and of all the talk of policy lynching in this game is probably the only player who is consistently worthy of one. From my recollection his town play is actually not this cringy so perhaps I am being a little overzealous here, but I do not ever recall a time where I found BM adequately established his own innocence or provided anything useful in terms of scumhunting. Let's leave it at that-I doubt that anyone is willing to lynch BM today but we'll need to lynch him to win the game eventually. As for why LS is still the best lynch for today: 1. LS continues to exhibit one of the most classic scum traits. A lack of effort, even under pressure. To give you an idea, his "meta case" on me being town was completely inaccurate. Here are the things he said: On June 09 2015 05:53 LightningStrike wrote: Okay bugs is totes town he got very similar formatting and stuff to his latest town games to his scum games and his line of questioning to FreezingFoot is also similar how did his line of questioning in his town games. Also Bugs I do tend to do that hey I will be back later stuff a lot regardless of my alignment Also I truly was bored on the smurf debate mainly because it isn't exactly important to know who the smurf is although would be helpful for meta purposes :o Now that the game isn't focused on the great smurf debate I also got a meta read on bats being town he always a interesting person I just hope he doesn't lynch himself again :O Onegu haven't done much so null on him meta wise.Jesus, can this be more obvious? Look how many words he uses to say almost completely worthless things. Who cares if LS has town reads? They are not even substantiated by anything. Which questions did I ask of other players in previous games? How is my formatting similar, and what the hell does that have to do with alignment? Which games of mine did he read and why does he not provide concrete examples here? Another good question to ask would be why he never mentions yamato or tries to convince people to vote yamato after voting yamato himself. In his town games LS generally tends to do this. He asks other people about the reads he has at that moment, just like any other townie would do. Instead, LS quickly moves off yamato after yamato enters the thread (and until yamato entered the thread LS made no effort to convince anyone of his supposed read, which had to be one of the meekest things I've ever seen) The part that proves LS is full of shit is this post: On June 09 2015 22:19 LightningStrike wrote: Okay I back and will answer Breshke's question regarding WBG's meta: From my research he tends to be much more aggressive and more thoughtful as town than scum which demonstrated pretty damn well this game when he pressured FreezingFoot and made a case on me although he is wrong on my alignment since I know Town. As scum he tends to more lurky and not as thoughtful from what I can tell from the couple of games I had checked out from the database regarding his meta. Also @Onegu I didn't scumread you for not claiming VT I just only said you cashed in on claiming VT Day 1 as scum before(XXX) and everyone is VT by default since the Miller is not selfaware also there wasn't much stuff in the thread to work with? I got the following as Town: WBG: Meta which I just explained. FreezingFoot: His reaction to WBG seemed pretty townie and looked townie outside of it. bats: Seems much more in line of his town meta compared to scum meta from my experience with him where the only time I played vs his scum he was I think a little bit more serious that game. Breshke: He seemed much more focused this game and willing to ask questions more than his normal scum game which I manged to catch him before BM: Although I think he's wrong on his meta read on WBG he did push it and he actually believes and looked townie for pushing someone who I think is Top Town. The rest are Null just wish a couple of the people would start posting more I am NOT lurky as scum. I am far from it, and some of my most post-heavy games have been as scum. I am constantly on the attack and I lead lynches as either alignment. I also make cases regardless of alignment. Look at Storm Mafia, Mini Mafia X, My Little Pony, Couples Therapy, Arkham City or Space Station and tell me in which of those games I lurked. In fact, I don't think I've ever lurked when playing mafia on this forum. On June 10 2015 03:20 LightningStrike wrote: I just got home and got a question: Maybe one of the lurkers because the game is pretty inactive and there might be potential mafia in there as much I hate policy lynching lurkers it might be out best shot hitting scum :\ Again, meekness. Look at how little LS wants to strike a confrontation with someone. This is so obvious in his vote patterns too. Votes someone, then completely backs off almost immediately at the first sign of resistance. Can anyone tell me what LS's opinions are this game? Can you tell me, based on those opinions, what the reasons are? Who does LS think is scum and who has LS actually pushed? I certainly can't answer any of these questions without reading LS's posts, and every time I read them I discover gems like these: On June 10 2015 05:30 LightningStrike wrote: Honestly despite the fact I know how to read Stutters he prob the best lynch even it's on policy and I hope he picks up before EoD so I can get a better tell on him. Just a reminder this just on pure policy from me and I normally don't do that but it prob the best place to put my vote in my opinion for now. ##Vote: Stutters A constant barrage of worry from LS about where his vote's going to end up. The scum translation of this is: "Hey guys I'm totally not scum so when this dude ends up flipping town please don't blame me, this is my warning to you that I actually don't have a really good reason for voting this dude but I'm going to do it anyway because I have to and please don't hurt me after" just kill him | ||
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The other traits are : 2. A clear self-conscious focus, that is very uncharacteristic of townies and especially uncharacteristic of his own play as I have interpreted it based on his past games. This is in stark contrast to other players and most experienced townies who don't give a shit when people think they are scum and are not worried about taking flak for who they are voting 3. Completely unwilling to suspect anyone which is generally a sign of a scared scum who doesn't want to take too much attention. Voting people invites attention, making reads invites attention, leading town invites attention. Scum almost never want attention unless they play to a specific, aggressive and bold style. The vast majority of players don't fit that mold as scum, and most don't know how to do it properly. Most scum are scared shitless they will get caught and their response is to never really step forth and do anything that would get them noticed. This also makes it very hard to lynch them because for the most part they can appease the sheep by continuing to put in marginal effort | ||
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On June 10 2015 06:48 LightningStrike wrote: Ugh was anyone questioning if Bats was town? Hint there wasn't. I usually like to put my vote on someone who I think are scum but unfortunately we just have a bunch of lurkers so it better to shoot fish a in barrel on this lynch. Also on my vote on Shock I intially thought he could be scum but then read his meta and discovered he at best would be a policy lynch since he haven't posted much but his large posts looked better on second look. Also at the time you haven't posted much but I do think you're town just wrong on my alignment though If no one was questioning if bats was town what the fuck is the point of saying he's town | ||
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Who cares if I ask you for your opinion and you come back with "I think there are 3 scum this game"? That's the same level of response you provided when you said you had a town meta read on bats. That's literally what scum do, it takes no effort to say someone is town when you already know their alignment | ||
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dude you need to read LS's posts. You seem to have a townish read on LS but I don't understand whether that's because you've played with him before and think you can read him well or what. Read his posts. He seems to be implying that having a town read on you when other people also had a town read on him is somehow an indication of his own innocence. It literally doesn't matter what anyone actually thought if this is his reasoning. Look at what he says and the behaviour in which he says it. He's trying to give himself cred for agreeing with something that he thinks other people would have agreed with it. Since when is that alignment indicative? How is sheeping anything a townish thing to do? | ||
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On June 10 2015 06:52 FreezingFoot wrote: I am HIGHLY against LS since most of what you said could also come from his town meta. He is ALWAYS this passive, and I wonder I didn't understand the self-focused point. I think the best point in your case is the part where he calls yamato scum but does nothing with it. But it also fits his passiveness as either alignment. If you take aggressiveness alone, you should be strongly townreading BM. BM is a WAY better lynch today, seconded only by shockey I don't count aggressiveness as a scum trait. BM is scum because he is pushing bad ideas and because he has a history of pushing bad lynches and being a brute as scum. | ||
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On June 10 2015 06:52 FreezingFoot wrote: I am HIGHLY against LS since most of what you said could also come from his town meta. He is ALWAYS this passive, and I wonder I didn't understand the self-focused point. I think the best point in your case is the part where he calls yamato scum but does nothing with it. But it also fits his passiveness as either alignment. If you take aggressiveness alone, you should be strongly townreading BM. BM is a WAY better lynch today, seconded only by shockey also there's a clear difference between passiveness/complacency and an unwillingness to encounter confrontation. One is a playstyle, the other is behavioural. Townies can be passive and complacent but in general they don't attempt to sugarcoat their reads or qualify them by saying "oh just as an fyi this is totally policy, I don't have a good reason for doing this" over and over. They may say it once or twice but in general their justifications come from thought processes about their targets, not thought processes regarding themselves. The only people who think constantly of their own appearances in thread are scum | ||
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On June 10 2015 06:56 FreezingFoot wrote: I meant that if passiveness is a scum trait, in the other hand, BM must be town under your conception. I am totally against voting LS today. it's not a scum trait. Unwillingness to encounter confrontation is different from passiveness/complacency as I described in my previous post. Perhaps passiveness is a bad word to describe the behaviour that LS has right now. My interpretation of LS's posts is that he does things so that he will go unnoticed. Townies don't do that consciously. I get the impression that with every post, LS has this in mind. | ||
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On June 10 2015 06:57 Bill Murray wrote: WBG has insulted numerous people beyond the point that I'm willing to ever play with him again. I'm replacing out or merely not playing anymore this game. Sorry folks. Wisdom of the crowd is in this game so. how's that for insulting | ||
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On June 10 2015 06:59 batsnacks wrote: I wish bill and bugs would just make out already. hehehe | ||
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On June 10 2015 06:59 LightningStrike wrote: I would do that regardless on my alignment in these type of slow games :o nah, you don't say ":o" nearly as often when you are town. you don't use " " either when you vote someone. Too meek for me. Please die | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:01 Bill Murray wrote: that WASNT directed towards you it was directed towards LS that wasn't directed at a townie, so it's okay! It was directed at my scumbuddy! | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:03 Kickstart wrote: Take your votes off of stutters already, its fuckign useless. bill been railing on bugs all fucking game and has his vote on stutters, like what in the fuck. this is why I wanted to ragequit people are just not playing, so why bother | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:04 batsnacks wrote: My bat-senses are telling me that LS is town. if he were town he'd already be dead. there's no way this much resistance would be present. | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:03 FreezingFoot wrote: Maybe because I prefer a no lynch than lynching a coinflip? I've already told who I want to kill. Bill or Shockey. I'm not voting anyone else. I want to lynch Bill too. But let's talk about Shockey. He's probably not scum, and even if he is he's definitely not a good lynch today. his entrance into the thread was pretty good, and in particular his reaction here: On June 10 2015 04:28 ShoCkeyy wrote: Wut? I read thread day and night when I have a chance, this means even while I'm taking a shit in the bathroom. Just cause I post very little doesn't mean I'm not reading. Posting takes up a lot of time and effort to try and put together something at least coherent. Wether you like to understand what I'm posting is entirely up to you. I post when I get the chance and when I do post, I have at least read and reread the thread multiple times. in particular the bolded-the tone of posting and the indignance with which he defends himself is not a scum trait. I don't think he's the best bet to be scum after he responded like that. | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:06 Bill Murray wrote: i just seriously used LOGIC to destroy wherebugsgo something he wouldnt know because all he does is commit logical fallacy | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:05 Kickstart wrote: K then if we cant get enough on LS vote on bill. ##Unvote ##Vote: Bill Murray *cracks whip* we're not doing a last minute switch with half the people not here | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:09 ShoCkeyy wrote: ##unvote ##vote LightningStrike fuck yeah | ||
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we can do it dudes | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:12 FreezingFoot wrote: YOU ARE GOING TO MISLYNCH HIM!!!! nah that was a very interesting reaction though. Care to respond about Shockey or are you actually scum? | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:14 The Shining wrote: Actually no, are there enough people here? Can we lynch one of my actual scum, BM? Pls? ##Unvote Vote: Bill Murray no | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:14 batsnacks wrote: Your confirmation bias is really, really strong dude. LS is AT BEST %30 chance of flipping scum. maybe. Why is he not defending himself if he's town? | ||
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He has no scumreads to speak of. That's incredible, given that day 1 is almost ending and everyone in the game has posted except stutters. How can anyone have no scumreads at this point? | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:15 FreezingFoot wrote: The problem with this town read of yours is that it's basically a gut read rather than an objective analysis of his lackluster play in this game. Tone reads are weak. Did you read what I've posted about him before? where is your evidence for tone reads being weak? It's not a gut read. It's how most scum and most town play. I can make it more concrete but I don't have the time to dig through Shockey's posts right now. Not that this actually matters, since he's not even a viable alternative with 40 minutes to go. BM is our only viable alternative and he's probably not going to die | ||
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A single townie forcing a no-lynch takes some serious balls but I would expect them to back it up. and if they don't I will probably tunnel the shit out of them | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:19 Bill Murray wrote: just waiting on you to apologize to me aww I'm sowwy Bill Murray can we be friends now? | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:19 batsnacks wrote: Why is he not defending himself if he's mafia? Anyway he sort of is defending himself. Like yes he could be mafia but it's not as likely as you seem to think. bad mafia don't know how to defend themselves. I've been in scum teams where I told people to fuck off and let me handle getting the lynch off of them because every time they post they manage to sink themselves further Often times when a death is inevitable it is better for scum to disappear and hope they survive instead of incriminating themselves even more. They've already incriminated themselves so hard they're on the chopping block. Any further slips and they're liable to die | ||
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Not defending cannot possibly be a town trait. He didn't explicitly give up or ragequit, which might actually lead me to think I would be wrong. His reaction has been the same every single time with no escalation of emotion. | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:22 batsnacks wrote: LS isn't bad mafia and he didn't disappear. if he didn't disappear where is he now? | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:24 Kickstart wrote: Unless we can all switch to bill for going back onto stutters. stahp | ||
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it's the truth. we have half an hour to go. I'm 90% confident but it's always the 10% that scares me | ||
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is it merely out of principle now? | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:28 batsnacks wrote: Why are you concerned at all if you're 90% confident that is overwhelming confidence for a d1 lynch? If LS flips town and you could instantly take it back and lynch someone else today who would you choose? BM, no doubts | ||
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So for example the players we have less information on are the likes of Shockey, Shining, Tubesock, Onegu, Stutters. Stutters is completely unreadable because he didn't post/vote so hopefully it's just an activity thing and we have a different player to read (or a flip). In the worst case the mods decide to leave him be and we have no idea what he is. That's uncomfortable unfortunately but we'd have to live with it as long as there are better targets Among the other 4 (Shockey Shining Tubesock Onegu) I like Tubesock the least right now | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:32 FreezingFoot wrote: THE GUY IS THE FUCKING LYNCH FOR TODAY IF HE IS SCUM THIS IS THE EXACT TIME HE WOULD BE DEFENDING HIMSELF TO SURVIVE YET HE ISN'T EVEN TRYING TO DEFEND HIMSELF ARGGGGH what only scum have two choices here. Lurk and just die without further incrimination of self/team or defend themselves. Townies don't have a choice unless they explicitly ragequit. If this dude is town and not defending himself in this position he deserves to get lynched | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:32 batsnacks wrote: Okay I'm vehemently opposed to the LS lynch and will be voting anyone possible to save him. ##unvote ##vote Bill Murray No hard feelings bill. On June 10 2015 07:33 FreezingFoot wrote: Give me a SINGLE reason on why we shouldn't lynch BM. A single one. 1. Because he's not the best lynch. BM plays erratically as both alignments. He's likely to be scum too 2. Because the likelihood of getting 7 votes in 20 minutes in this fucking town is almost 0% | ||
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it's hard to tell whether FF/bats just have cold feet/legitimately believe what they are saying or whether one or both of them is scum here I prefer bats' approach but FF's response seems fishy | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:37 FreezingFoot wrote: Dude look how carelessly every other lurkers parked their vote on LS. Look how easily his wagon was formed in the end of the day. It is OBVIOUS this is a mislynch. Look how HARD it is to get Bill lynched EVEN when EVERYTHING he does is scummy. I find hard to believe a scum would let himself get lynched instead of fighting that lynch into someone else. I find easier to a town to just get enough of a game and simply don't give a fuck anymore, since everything he says is turning against him, anyway. Really? Other lurkers also parked their votes on stutters. And on BM at times too! Also how do you get that expectation from this dude? Emotionally I don't get that impression from LS. Even if he did, wouldn't he provide a scumread at some point? Do you think LS's town play is so weak that he is incapable of coming up with ONE scumread in 48 hours? At various times over the past two days I've skimmed like half of his town games, and in none of them do I see a situation where he has absolutely no scumreads whatsoever. He doesn't appear to me the type of player who is wildly afraid of putting their finger of suspicion on someone like he is this game and in other games in which he has turned up scum. | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:38 Breshke wrote: It's very likely I fall back to sleep maybe even before EOD idk why I'm so tired Bats thing about BM the diet case is something that would make me vote on him but I also don't think that town LS just afks through a lynch like this when he is always trying to improve his game post game by asking for advice. like this is a really good point. I read some of the interactions between LS and rsoultin, for example, in some of his games. I've never played with LS but I got the impression that he's a player that wants to improve at mafia. If that's the case his behaviour here, if town, makes no sense at all. It only makes sense from a scum perspective. | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:39 batsnacks wrote: Dude your last <large number> posts are just repeating the same thing and flinging scum on anyone who disagrees with you. Your case on LS is much weaker than everything yamato said. If anyone is voting LS for anything you said then they are voting for bad reasons. You need to check yourself out of the confirmation bias mode. Thank you for providing your input, but I certainly didn't see people voting LS when yamato posted. | ||
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Yet, I don't think he is scum. How do you explain that, bats? | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:43 FreezingFoot wrote: LS in game of thrones mafia played similarly and got mislynched by town Holyflare who made a very convincing case on him. This IS how LS plays. If you think BM plays suboptimally regardless of alignment, if you ACTUALLY read LS's town games, you would KNOW this is his usual gameplay. It's as suboptimally as BM's. Why the double standards? This is not GoT mafia, and I actually read that game and completely disagree. I would have read him as town that game simply because of posts like these: On April 17 2015 05:10 LightningStrike wrote: lies. You and Artanis Mafia now who is your unnamed partner? On April 17 2015 09:55 LightningStrike wrote: You're mafia. Otherwise I would just policy lynch sicklucker Day 3 out On April 17 2015 10:51 LightningStrike wrote: I do it just much later in the game and we were scum together in Guardians you know I hate playing scum and very happy I rolled town for the first time since XXX..................................................... He admits he's happy he rolled town (which we know is true BECAUSE HE FLIPPED TOWN) which means he would put in effort as town. He's not putting jack shit in for effort here in this game. On April 17 2015 10:55 LightningStrike wrote: Sicklucker can do your 2nd point regarding the "leave it to me I got all figured out" as both alignments. Point #1 was regarding Student VI when both Artanis and Sicklucker rolled scum together and Artanis gave up Day 2 idk how it seems forced? 3rd point yeah it might be unreasonable ranting but I kinda hate how slow the game is. I think it's easier to read sicklucker as either alignment around Day 2 to Day 3 area when it becomes painfully obvious when he's scum. Look at how specific he is in these responses. There is no vagueness, and the tone is confident. He points out how he thinks sicklucker is wrong on a particular point, and he provides specific reasoning as to his opinions. Compare that to this shit: On June 09 2015 05:53 LightningStrike wrote: Okay bugs is totes town he got very similar formatting and stuff to his latest town games to his scum games and his line of questioning to FreezingFoot is also similar how did his line of questioning in his town games. Also Bugs I do tend to do that hey I will be back later stuff a lot regardless of my alignment Also I truly was bored on the smurf debate mainly because it isn't exactly important to know who the smurf is although would be helpful for meta purposes :o Now that the game isn't focused on the great smurf debate I also got a meta read on bats being town he always a interesting person I just hope he doesn't lynch himself again :O Onegu haven't done much so null on him meta wise.there's no specificity here. His responses to other players are also very similar in tone and style. Also when LS is about to die in GoT here's his response On April 18 2015 07:15 LightningStrike wrote: BTW I wont be posting for the rest of the day phase it just bullshit I going to get lynched because Unholyflare got a case on me when noone else brought a case on someone being scum. He calls it bullshit. He has emotion here, and it has clearly escalated. And this as well: On April 18 2015 07:13 LightningStrike wrote: Well be damned then just lynch me then. You don't see any of that here, he just slinks off. | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:45 batsnacks wrote: I don't know what you're talking about here you will have explain better if this isn't just some weird rhetoric. On June 10 2015 07:39 batsnacks wrote: Dude your last <large number> posts are just repeating the same thing and flinging scum on anyone who disagrees with you. Your case on LS is much weaker than everything yamato said. If anyone is voting LS for anything you said then they are voting for bad reasons. You need to check yourself out of the confirmation bias mode. | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:51 batsnacks wrote: Even if I'm wrong I am your greatest ally because I am HARD DEFENDING him with reckless abandon and willing to lynch ANYONE in his place. I agree that your thought process leads me to think you are town. The fact that you are willing to lynch anyone else is a pretty dumb thing to say though | ||
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pls no voteswitch | ||
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no they don't Q: Can scum cast witchcraft votes? A: No. | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:54 batsnacks wrote: Nah you'll thank me later especially if LS flips scum. ...okay? if LS flips scum there's no way I live long enough for me to think anything | ||
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or maybe it's FF. bah need to read my spreadsheet has been updated btw https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18hJSlotqO9cGIaINjn3EQtuMrxz1p6SH_G4algS3Otk/edit#gid=0 | ||
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On June 10 2015 08:14 Bill Murray wrote: you didnt update my section :[ it's ok I think you have the most words by count in there | ||
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I'm like one of those innocent girls who becomes a vicious monster and starts destroying shit like godzilla or something | ||
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On June 10 2015 08:21 Kickstart wrote: Solely for the last minute switch off of the scum you bastard. | ||
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On June 10 2015 08:26 Kickstart wrote: I think foot looks really fucking bad after this. Bats redeemed for not letting shenanis go down and going onto LS when Bill shananid off the vote. I agree, although the only thing holding me back is some of his responses to the pressure that I had put on him earlier in the game. Granted, I never like fully felt great about it, but it was one of those things where I was wondering "yeaaahhh maybe I'm just tunneled here and let's give it some time". The problem is that I had a note in my sheet that after I relieved pressure on FF he kinda didn't do anything for a bit. It's pretty classically scummy to do just enough to throw off suspicion and then go and "lose heat" by not doing anything too out-there for a while. I think it stems from the fact that if a player takes suspicion they are hesitant to go ahead and participate again immediately for fear of being suspected again. I've seen some townies exhibit this behaviour but the method in which they do it is generally different. They don't just straight up disappear but they have some sort of input to provide the thread and kinda lament the fact that they aren't taken seriously. In some cases they also fight back. With scum you are more apt to not notice that they are gone, which is ironically the best way to identify that you were right to begin with. I've been trying to be conscious of that here and I do think that's the case. With all that said my read on FF is not very strong either way right now. BM is a better lynch tomorrow. Also of the Stutters voters I think BM and Tubesock look the worst, but I also wouldn't be shocked if there was a scum on the LS lynch. While it is extended majority I do think scum would at least try to have an out by placing a vote on LS. The thing though is if they did that they would've done it probably after the first 24 hours. | ||
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Since I think we should just treat FF as likely to be one of the better players in this game, even though I think his opinions all suck, we should probably take them at face value instead of giving him the benefit of the doubt. hehe | ||
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On June 10 2015 08:36 yamato77 wrote: I wasn't elected LOL fuck you mafia lel I rekt you. yo don't say that now you gonna be shot in the dick | ||
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scum don't need more info when they still have an extra KP floating around | ||
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On June 10 2015 08:38 Kickstart wrote: O nice they lost one of their bullets without getting to use it. Fucking rekt. yeah it's really good for us because I think just those two extra KP can be game breaking. | ||
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I don't want to lean too heavily on association here, but if mafia were scum, the person they'd be okay with killing off most likely would be the priest If indeed we had 2 scum on day 1 they would need the KP at all costs. They'd also definitely be able to use it very easily given that anyone on a successful or good-looking lynch becomes a good target for a blue snipe. 2 shots gives them double the chances. Now with one shot they have to really guess correctly, or just save it for when it is mathematically beneficial for them. That's in our benefit because we can actually use the blue roles without having to worry as much about being sniped. Obviously the people who got those roles tonight still need to live into day 3ish because of the 72 hour rule, (which is actually pretty fucked up, it means you can't claim immediately) but that's better than nothing I guess | ||
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I clearly meant if I were scum. I need to go eat s omething | ||
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DO NOT CLAIM IT IN THREAD FOR THE NEXT CYCLE. DON'T LIE, DON'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR STATUS EVEN IF YOU DIDN'T GET ELECTED Scum may save their shot tonight if they're not sure who got elected. In that case if you got elected tonight and you have a role, remember that you are still vulnerable if you live through the night. If two townies flip n1 you may claim, but only if two townies flip. At any other point don't ever claim until the night afterward. | ||
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IMO the investigative roles are complete shit because at this point if you're pointing at a scum it's a 50/50 that you get the wrong result | ||
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On June 10 2015 08:51 Kickstart wrote: With only 3 witchcraft actions u think its best to priest and witchhunter check ff/bill. Id say witchhunter checking multipletargets would be better but I think you can only do each different power 1 time (person who got most witchcraft votes gets priority in choosing actions). If that is indeed the case I think doing the scrying and blaspheme on same target is worth, though the miller role could fuck it up. Or just morph me thats cool too. why would you scrying and blaspheme the same target they'll end up with opposite results every single time | ||
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I would suspect a blaspheme on BM returns red | ||
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RB and JK still the best So I would say RB/JK top 2, definitely. JK is probably a bit harder to use, and it sadly does not stop delivery of KP (which of course would render RB a weaker choice so I can understand why the hosts decided that, although you could argue it) 3rd would be tracker/blaspheme. Mason is not that great IMO because most people in this town don't really talk that much and are unlikely to really say anything all that useful, although I suppose a 1-to-1 PM with a townie would make a really good combination team. I would imagine that any townie worth masoning would probably be dead tomorrow anyway so probably not worth it Scrying sucks cause you can't actually trust either result, and it's a complete coinflip when you hit red morph is ok if you think you're gonna get shot | ||
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if the silver bullet fails we have no way of knowing though. actually in some sense that might be a good thing. If we get a townie to flip due to silver bullet there should never be any fears of claiming although with multiple claims scum can easily fake claim too fuck this setup is insane | ||
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On June 10 2015 09:01 Bill Murray wrote: there seems to be a chasm on what people think of me. I wouldnt mind this sort of argument, but the fact that it is repeated constantly is honestly quite annoying. First of all, I'm not just a player in the game. I'm a person. The type of person whose feelings can become hurt. Now that that is out of the way, I feel like FF has slipped. On Numerous occasions, there are times where she has been saying something like "X is town" without any qualifiers. This is a JEEP tell. if someone successfully guesses their scumbuddy, assuming she is scum with LS, as this becomes more and more obvious, at the end of the phase, FF was fairly against voting LS. She pushed WBG, she pushed me, and seemed to flip flop on anyone that was not LS. It was quite fishy. FF also OMGUSED WBG early on in the game. Town can OMGUS, but I don't think this was the town sort of OMGUS. This seemed like it had scum motivation. WBG was hardpushing her, and she didn't really want to go down without a fight. This is when I gave her an opportunity. I took over the reigns of pushing WBG>this let her back off, and attack anyone else who called her scum. She sees no motivation from me to back off WBG and push her the way I am now, but like I've said, my WBG push was reaction based. I wasn't taking it past the first day, even without the spreadsheet (that spreadsheet was magnificent by the way) Given the way LS didn't scumread anyone, where is the reasoning for FF to not have voted him? I can see why you guys think I'm scum, because I backed off of my vote, but I would ask of you to let me live a little bit longer because I really want to play as town my apologies if I hurt your feelings. I also tend to get annoyed/angry in mafia, as I'm sure you can tell. However since you are probably mafia, anyone saying that your opinion doesn't matter simply means...well, that you're scum and your opinion doesn't matter. If you are actually town just try to convince us who the last two scum are. If it makes sense and is reasonable, I promise I won't kill you. | ||
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On June 10 2015 09:04 Bill Murray wrote: WBG you say blaspheme on me would return red how about you just lynch me tomorrow instead? You lynch me tomorrow, and when I flip VT you are lynched the next day, deal? see this is why people don't think you're town even if you flip VT in no world does it make sense to lynch me afterward | ||
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On June 10 2015 09:03 Breshke wrote: How is role block any better than blaspheme If you RB the scum that doesn't send the kill you literally have no info the RB is only useful if it hits. Blaspheme at least gives the distinct answer if someone is or isn't the priest what? It may have no effect only if the RB hits the priest. I don't think scum are ballsy enough to both deliver the KP and a silver bullet on the same player (if they choose to fire a silver bullet tonight). If they try to snipe a blue tonight they almost certainly will use both players to deliver KP, otherwise if the witch hunter gets RBed both of their KPs fail I am 99% sure I play better scum than you and let me be frank when I say a DT check would not scare me in this setup nearly as much as an RB or a jailkeeper prot. | ||
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most people are dumb and when they get back a green DT result aren't nearly smart enough to ignore it when they need to | ||
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The DT check is only useful when you gamble and it pays off in hitting red. Then you can immediately claim and eat the silver bullet if you have to because the target you just outted has to be scum. | ||
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On June 10 2015 09:14 batsnacks wrote: He had a pretty strong dumbtell at eod. stop using shit that's not alignment indicative to indicate things of alignment! being dumb, aggressive, passive, lurky, active, none of these are alignment indicative by themselves. They paint a picture in context of other things. If BM is scum he himself knows he doesn't have a vote, and "acting dumb" is fucking easy. All he has to do is say that scum get a vote and some idiot townie will come along and say he's town because he doesn't know scum don't get votes. I don't know why people fall into this trap over and over and over but it's exactly the reason that mafia players on this mafia only need to be 10% as good as townies to do anything remotely "amazing" | ||
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On June 10 2015 09:21 Breshke wrote: I'm 100% sure you play scum better than me no one was having a dick measuring contest but thanks for getting yours out to show Silver bullet gets refunded if role blocked so it's not like they really lose that kp also if someone role locks someone and there is still one shown kill does that mean that person is mafia or maybe scum didn't use their silver bullet or missed with it. I think RB is good in best case scenario whereas blaspheme while shittier always provides info this is not a contest. I am a crap townie and I'm pretty decent at scum, which is why I am very confident in the situation I described to you, but I was not very confident in the end that LS would flip scum. Even if the bullet gets refunded you are potentially keeping a townie alive for another cycle at least because a silver bullet during a half cycle results in a flip (if it is successful) at the end of said half cycle. In other words if you RB the witch hunter successfully the target ends up living for the next day to push lynches with you. That's almost equivalent to saving them as a medic/JK. The only difference is that the RB can actually directly stop normal KP delivery, which in this game is incredibly useful because a JK on a good townie can actually prevent a blue usage. Now of course saving that townie is more valuable than the blue usage but it's better to have more townies alive for longer than it is to rely on things like DT checks. DT is only good in best case scenario. RB is good even in not so good scenario, simply because the number of scummers is so low. Remember a green DT check doesn't mean shit, it's only the red one that matters. | ||
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If scum attempt to blue snipe then morph is useless. Morph gets better after the silver bullet is definitely used, so if two townies die or if a townie flips at the end of a day without getting lynched then morph becomes better. My problem with morph probably stems from my own style of play because it's a relatively complacent thing to do unless you are really really sure you will eat the scum KP for some reason. At least if you are JK or RB you have a chance of stopping something else if you get blue sniped, which is fairly likely for someone who thinks they are townie enough to get shot. I personally as scum would blue snipe the person I think is the top townread in the thread simply because it is so overwhelmingly likely that they are blue. The only thing that saves them at that point is an RB on the witch hunter, which again is not possible if people morph instead. | ||
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On June 10 2015 09:37 batsnacks wrote: If all 3 morph we lose at most 1 blue and at most 1 townie no matter what, and the townies that survive are probably strong. Any other course of action it is possible to lose up to 2 blues and 2 strong townies. why couldn't you lose two townies? Scum could choose to kill someone who they think is not likely to be blue. Of course that's not necessarily an optimal shot but you don't need to kill the best townies to win as scum. In fact a lot of the time you can turn townies on each other just because you leave some good ones who have the wrong reads alive. | ||
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RB has the nice property of a successful RB on the night KP both dragging the game out longer and giving us a really good lead. | ||
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If you indeed don't spend this time talking to me, I'll have to list you as a scumread. If I die I hope the town is not dumb enough to let you go quietly. Partly the reason is because I won't be around ~3 hours before lynch, because I will be boarding a plane. Indeed, I probably won't be around after the lynch either so the next ~6 hours or so and maybe early morning tomorrow is the best time for me to get as much information out of every player to provide the best I can before my time in the game ends. So, let's talk. Convince me why you're not scum. Convince me of your best two reads right now. I know you think BM is mafia, you've argued that point through and through. Let's assume BM is either dead or town. Who else would you pick? I want reasons. I also want specifics and the details behind your thought process. Lastly, since I think this would be very useful, I want you to claim your identity so I can read your past games. If any of you disagree that meta would be useful in this situation, please go ahead and reread my case on LS, and tell me exactly why a smurf FF in this situation would be doing us a favor by not telling us his identity. My comparisons between LS's countless town games and his really mediocre mafia play was a significant driving force behind my confidence in the lynch, and I would expect that a town smurf would understand the implications of having more information on the table. | ||
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Bussing is not a good mafia strategy, it's a fucking sign of weakness. You don't kill your own teammates unless you absolutely have to, and anyone who thinks it's a good idea to bus their teammates out of the blue clearly doesn't know how to play scum | ||
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you're not giving me much here. anything else? I think you're town but I need you to help me erase this niggling feeling that I am wrong about that read | ||
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who are the other 2 | ||
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for every hour you choose to not respond to me, I'm going to lower your rating in my spreadsheet by 6%. Therefore you have 5 hours to talk to me or I'll be leaving you as 100% scum before I die. If you are town you should obviously have an interest in correcting my read before I die so that I don't get town to mislynch your ass. FreezingFoot same goes for you, except the number is 12% because you probably have more potential and I had you higher up. Also you were present right before the lynch and you already ignored a couple of my posts, so...there you have it. I would consistently lower BM's rating too but it's already pathetically low I want you to answer the following questions: Who are scum? I want your best reasons and the players you think are scummy. To Tube, I want to know why you thought a policy lynch on a player who would get modkilled was better than joining literally any other lynch. I would also want to know why you were so adamant on saying you wanted to get me lynched while I was gone, but as soon as I showed up again you chickened out. If you're town why are you so scared of pointing out your scumreads? Did you really have no other choice but to vote on pure policy, as you yourself admitted? The timer starts now: | ||
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On June 10 2015 11:03 yamato77 wrote: there's only one more I dunno, it could be a number of people yeah sorry derp I meant say tube is not scum. If tube is scum, who's the partner? can you be specific. Which people specifically? To both questions, if tube is scum vs if tube isn't scum | ||
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time to see what happens ![[image loading]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YKUOB8MN4Kc/hqdefault.jpg) don't you love when games are exciting? | ||
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did you notice that? | ||
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I would be like one of those dudes that rides with flip flops on | ||
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hey Tubesock for every hour you choose to not respond to me, I'm going to lower your rating in my spreadsheet by 6%. Therefore you have 5 hours to talk to me or I'll be leaving you as 100% scum before I die. If you are town you should obviously have an interest in correcting my read before I die so that I don't get town to mislynch your ass. FreezingFoot same goes for you, except the number is 12% because you probably have more potential and I had you higher up. Also you were present right before the lynch and you already ignored a couple of my posts, so...there you have it. I would consistently lower BM's rating too but it's already pathetically low I want you to answer the following questions: Who are scum? I want your best reasons and the players you think are scummy. To Tube, I want to know why you thought a policy lynch on a player who would get modkilled was better than joining literally any other lynch. I would also want to know why you were so adamant on saying you wanted to get me lynched while I was gone, but as soon as I showed up again you chickened out. If you're town why are you so scared of pointing out your scumreads? Did you really have no other choice but to vote on pure policy, as you yourself admitted? The timer starts now: | ||
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On June 10 2015 12:42 Bill Murray wrote: up me on your scum rating WBG i know you dont really think im scum i read your whole iso a couple hours ago and every place you mention me is tinged with doubt I gave you a unique score I can promise I will never give to any other player | ||
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On June 10 2015 13:26 yamato77 wrote: hint: the representation of this score is a picture of his penis that's a weird looking penis | ||
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Probably gonna be my last post unless I somehow survive the night. You all know where to find my reads. | ||
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Of the three I think FF is the most likely to be town. The thing that blows my mind is that one of them has to be town. Like, legitimately this is how one of these dudes plays as town. The least shitty play is FF so I would feel the worst about killing him. And actually on reread I don't mind FF much at all. Tube on the other hand has some of the fakest aggression I've ever seen. Why the hell would a townie's only suspicion following a scum flip be the dude that ended up getting the scum wagon started? He doesn't finger anyone and indeed hus best reads were both 50/50. Notice how he says he thought both LS and Stutters were coin flips. The excuse that je would rather lynch the modkill than two townies is complete bullshit because he never once indicated that he recognized that type of situation before the lynch. I unfortunately have no time to read into Tube's 5 games because I need to eat pack and leave but I just can't see his responses here being town motivated. They make so little sense from a town perspective, why would you purely discredit the towniest person in the game instead of even attempting to work with them? After being so utterly wrong I would expect townies to at least have a bit of incredulity or doubt but Tubes doesn't show any doubt whatsoever that I am scum. That doesn't add up. How the fuck can you be so wrong on day 1 and yet have 0 doubt afterward | ||
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I use language like IMO internally because I like qualifying things that I have seen vs what other players have seen. E.g. originally I had you, tube, as town but based on other people's reads I changed my mind. In addition as I intended to give the reads out I changed the wording so it would be easier for other players to understand. If it was entirely in my own shorthand it would be far less useful to other players because I would have to actively explain what things mean Thanks for falling into my trap, though. Maybe the next time hou roll scum I can coach you on how not to get caught like this. | ||
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He was also around just now. He spends so much time crafting posts and they come out like that. Like wtf. Do townies really have to think all that hard? Just to come up with such useless drivel? | ||
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Assume I am not scum. Who are the other two? Even if I am scum, who's the third? How about townies? Who are your best town reads? | ||
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Tube is 100% scum this game. Here's what he said in Newbie Mini LX when he rolled town: On January 05 2015 15:15 Tubesock wrote: Oh, yeah I should clarify, I absolutely agree we should lynch day 1. Even as a mlynch we gain a lot of information from who pushes what wagons, or any shenannies etc. And that also why I don't think policy lynches are good ideas, You really don't gain any information at all from them. I'm just letting you all know, I think my D1 reads are going to be trash. I'm probably only going to have a lynch/no-lynch list which will evolve as I gain confidence/evidence for my reads to solidify to town/mafia. Compare that to this game where the dude was like yeah this is clearly policy On June 10 2015 05:37 Tubesock wrote: ##Vote: Stutters695 Pure Policy. Bill, my points about the smurf is that there are several scenarios where it is beneficial to town to not know the smurf's identity. There are also some that benefit mafia. Bugs only considers 1 such scenario and has pushed it pretty consistently. So far no town points to anyone who sees the benefits to have a Holyflare type player smurfing. Both if he wanted to try hard or not. See that, and you'll see why it's beneficial to mafia to out the smurf. and like this On June 10 2015 17:04 Tubesock wrote: Fuck yeah I'm fine with a lynch on a modkill when I think the lynch is policy which is essentially 50/50. With 2 hours left too I figured he would probably vote. Lots of people show up close to EoD. As far as I was concerned I was willing to wait for more certainty on LS as he was 50/50 to me, and the remainders were just as likely to flip town as mafia. So I'm happy with voting a modkill to avoid the 50% of lynching 2 towns. I am also completely fine with a no lynch if the wagons were people I had at 50%. The more time town has the more difficult it is for mafia to win. It's a race against time. I think he's our best lynch now | ||
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as town he at least has the semblance of reads and I would not mind playing with him at all. Here I just want him to stop talking because I actually feel embarrassed for his thought process if he were to flip town Compare a post like this On March 04 2015 03:48 Tubesock wrote: Rayn, Toad, Geript are pretty obvious towns. You're town too, although I feel like Eden would scum you for having a low emote to post ratio. You have been interacting quite a bit. Mocsta is town for his zealousness going against Epiphany. I think Epiphany is town too because he reminds me of Jarjar stubbornly holding onto his equation (device and how to shoot plan). Keirathi, Sandroba, Robik (until a just a moment ago), Sicklucker haven't done anything. I'm scumming them for that. I have a tinfoil hat theory on how to read Sicklucker, so if a couple pieces fall together for him I could town him. Rereading Your Mom, I don't really see anything, but reading Rayn's cases and arguments I'm basically sold he's/she's mafia. Rayn is pretty convincing and I'm strongly townreading him. to almost any of tube's posts this game, good examples are the following two: On June 10 2015 02:28 Tubesock wrote: I'm not voting LS today. MafiaLS as time goes by gets more and more obvious. Most of you know this. I want to lynch Bugs make no mistake about it. IF we are going to policy lynch I'll possibly vote for Onegu, Shockey or Stutters. I've already said why on Onegu, I'd prefer Stutters over Shock simply if we are doing a policy then might as well do the lurkiest. @BM I think it doesn't benefit town as much if a player with a strong town rep wants to smurf and play lazy. Other than they will survive (OH MY GOD I MUST KNOW FOOT IS A HYDRA!!!!) night 1. Course I kinda think that they won't be able to help themselves and still solve the game D2/3 which is also good for town. Anyway, off to work but will be checking in periodically. On June 09 2015 15:28 Tubesock wrote: I'm not so sure it's being taken that serious. When I talk about him in my last couple posts its in relation to having the choice of the lurkers/plynched. I completely agree that Onegu is useless and uninterested and that's his typical town game. I even mentioned earlier how I would lynch a try hard Onegu. But compared to 2 other players who between the two have 5 posts...the no claim thing is as good as any heuristic. The difference is night and day, in that first post from JOAT tube gives concrete reasons for everything he thinks and says, even if not all of it is completely fleshed out. These last two posts from this game...the differences are minor (like not as clear as the differences in LS's play) but here like...why the hell did he focus only on the people who didn't post instead of commenting on any of the various players who actually did post? Like, as town, is tube scared of commenting on people who have posted a lot? He said he wanted to get me lynched (no doubts about it!) but he ignored commenting on me aside from the smurf business. I really doubt any townie would be fixated on that so hard they ignore everything else. In addition as town tube has demonstrated the willingness to comment on other players he thinks is town. In this game to some extent he has done that, e.g. with Shockey and BM and FF. However most of the other players he has no comments on, and most of his reads are really really bad. There is very little specificity in his posts. | ||
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Do disagree with you on tube on the responses thing though. Yeah, it's a fair amount of effort but what matters more here is the reads tube has, the reasonings, the behaviour, the methods through which he responds. Also I think the policy/mislynch stuff from his previous game is really damning. Tone wise he doesn't seem so wildly aggressive when he plaus town but who knows. He may genuinely be frustrated. I am nowhere near as confident on this dude as I was on LS but he has contributed nothing and will likely continue to contribute nothing given his attitude and stance re: the game, which to me is in contrast to the attitude he displayed in previous games where he rolled town. As for Breske I agree that he did not do all that much but my intuition points to town based on the manner in which he responded to particular happenings in the thread. Look at behaviour and perspective more than participation, because motives are more useful to analyze than play characteristics like effort or post count or whatever else you can come up with. Those types of traits only matter when they support or rule out particular scenarios regarding a player's thought process. Tomorrow: BM or tube. If we get a scum flip we auto lynch the other dude. We get a town flip and we need to start considering players like Onegu, Breske, Shining, Shockey, bats, but I don't find anything super outlandish about the way they are playing right now. Those players need to participate tomorrow so of course it would be useful to hear from all of them individually. At this point I would expect townies to have reasonable reads on the game so if anything seems out of place about someone's opinions and we end up lynching a townie, chances are they are a good bet to be scum. | ||
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I think mafia may have wasted a silver bullet on me | ||
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At least there's no snakes Anyway I think we should kill our friend Tubesock ##vote Tubesock | ||
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Kickstart seems like a random person to kill. He was very suspicious of both BM and tube, but so was I. Maybe they expected me to get protted or maybe they shot us both but the one on me failed because they used the WH shot. Impossible to tell obviously but I wouldn't have put it past them | ||
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He still thinks I have FF as scum LOL Get wrecked scummer, learn to post faster when you fabricate shit | ||
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On June 11 2015 12:52 Tubesock wrote: What do you care what I am doing? You're "town" right and I'm your biggest scumread. Like, you were so quick to say you were goign to ignore FreezingFoot because he's so dumb that he obviously won't have anything useful to say. You say you are going to ignore Kickstart (I think you said it to him too) and of course you get all emotional and "ragequit" talking to Bill Murray and yet continue to engage me. Someone who is clearly fucking bonkers and stupid. Like the entire thread thinks so. But yet, you don't treat me like a lunatic. Pretend I was posting like Alakaslam or Chezinu. Lots of people ignore them because they can't read them. If my stuff is so out there and stupid, why bother responding? Where in that post is there a suggestion that it was intended for your eyes? And yes, I did ignore Kickstart and I am currently still ignoring FF because his opinions are more or less going to be alwayswrong. His thought process doesn't help us find scum but it certainly helped me determine he's town. That's actually one of the driving motivators behind that post I just made, I'm annoyed with my town reads talking about stupid shit like when people post and when people defend themselves and how aggressive someone is and in general always donning the captain obvious hat and pointing out surface level things that any 2nd grader with competent reading could point out. Most of that shit is useless by itself | ||
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Something bothers me about the way that dude posts and it probably means he is scum. | ||
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There's also thtlat weirdass switch off LS and back onto LS.... Need to look at this dude'sZ past games | ||
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Yo yamato do you find Shining's thought processes weird? Like why would he say Shockey would be a policy lynch and then go ahead and vote him...also that thing about being okay with lynching LS...followed a couple lines later by "have him as slight town" I guess my only qualm here is that there was some level of specificity in his posts. However for example today he comes in and asks if anyone wants to talk yet disappears right afterward, like he is attempting to look like he is contributing | ||
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99% of townies aren't going to be smart enough to go back to reread day 1 play if a mafia decides to no lynch on the premise of not having enough info day 1, then goes ahead and changes his mind day 2 to bus his useless teammate. It literally makes no difference which day the bus occurs if mafia is looking for towncred. However in this setup there is a clear choice that makes sense and that's day 2 because you automatically forfeit a fucking KP. If you're actually town and cannot understand how unfathomably bad that kind of decision would be and why it's a complete non possibility you deserve to die for having such consistently terrible opinions | ||
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Like yes mafia sure could get elected but why not just use the FREE UNSTOPPABLE KP to fucking kill the towniest people Yamato I can see the dumb town perspective but this is too twisted man. | ||
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##unvote ##vote The Shining | ||
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On June 11 2015 17:09 yamato77 wrote: Why are we switching, exactly? His recent posting has gotten better, not worse. I disagree with you there on Shining. His posts haven't moved from where they started. You should read his scum game. Also I want to poke around a bit since BM is like near 100% to die anyway | ||
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Also if you weren't kidding about the red check you should tell us before deadline because if the witch hunter has his shot, you'll die at the same time as the lynch. | ||
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So basically what I'm saying is that even in RL I can't escape BM. | ||
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On June 12 2015 02:31 FreezingFoot wrote: we can't. Can you give me an example of one of his town traits that you say you've seen? try reading basically any of his posts that reply to you. also his thought process re your alignment seems genuine given what happenef after you outed yourself also given that you think he is scum it probably means he is town | ||
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On June 09 2015 01:49 ShoCkeyy wrote: I liked Kickstarts opening, very part of the game, he went ahead and started with some roleplay basically saying he's town which is why I quickly can say he's town (obviously it's still the beginning, the posting can get worse) and he went ahead and started questioning bugs cause of this: It's an opening post, but it's just so ugly for it being one of the first opening posts. Breshke - You can just tell he's playing a townie, then why all the questions that force others to really give their opinions of other players? I'm not new to these forums. I've definitely have played Mafia here before, but it's been a long time since then, so in a way I am new once again and I change my play style every game no matter what role. Then what's the point of continually playing when others have such a great read on you? This is why I started playing again, brings enjoyment. Onegu: He brings points, then leaves - hiding to not really get sniped. BM: I've played games with him before, always town. So I just rather sheep some one with more knowledge atm. This was my opening post, now I've explained myself about it because most of you instantly think scum if I don't. This post is w.e from LS: + Show Spoiler + On June 08 2015 21:58 LightningStrike wrote: Just woke up[ and had company over last night hence why my activity was kinda iffy(I thought they would be done earlier but they stayed till 11:15 -_-) and Bugs got a question: For town here a mix of my good games and bad games: Student V: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475036-student-mafia-v?user=LightningStrike Games of Throne: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/482863-game-of-thrones-mini-mafia?user=LightningStrike Titanic VII: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/477800-vii-titanic-mini-mafia-i-have-a-cunning-plan?user=LightningStrike&page=2 Carol of the Bells(Post limit game): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/472628-tl-mafia-lxix-carol-of-the-bells?user=LightningStrike Assassination(Another post limit game): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/484076-assassination-mafia?user=LightningStrike XXX A Night of Debauchery (18+): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/479775-xxx-mini-mafia-a-night-of-debauchery-18?user=LightningStrike I only got 3 scum games and here their filters: Student IV(First scum game ever and 2nd game on TL): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/471489-student-mafia-iv-new-newish-players-welcome?user=LightningStrike Jack of All Trades: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476732-jack-of-all-trades-mafia?user=LightningStrike Guardians of the Galaxy(Latest scum game): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/480042-tl-mafia-lxx-guardians-of-the-galaxy?user=LightningStrike You can check the database if you need more town games Also you still think FreezingFoot is scum? I don't like it, why do you link so many previous games to make sure people know how you play as a townie or mafia? And the fact that Bugs asked you makes it strange. Especially when he can just dig around himself, theres a database thread with ctrl + f. I'm still going to stick to bugs, he's obviously angry about being called out so early into the game that he decides to leave instead, what kind of town motive is that? The google spreadsheet? It's ok, points as BM mafia because he's on an all out against bugs and LS even though they never had another interaction again after the game list above. If the train decides to lynch a lurker (stutters), I doubt he would pull so much attention to himself if he was mafia by just not posting. yo why the fuck has this post been edited | ||
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who is scum to you and why please. | ||
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rather odd that it wasn't addressed explicitly in the thread by the mods but ok. Anyway shockey please stop your lurking and do more otherwise I'm going to have to stop defending you on the basis of what is a tone read. I have to say I can see why other people would think you are scum because none of your posts have any useful content whatsoever | ||
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I'll be back later to push my lynch | ||
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wtf?? | ||
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wat you listed 4 players and 2 of them are dead | ||
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##vote ShoCkeyy that second to last post has too many "coinflips" and "could be this could be that" for my taste. Completely worthless "reads" | ||
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yamato asked you the simplest question possible and you didn't even bother answering it | ||
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On June 12 2015 05:26 batsnacks wrote: He keeps saying fuck like he's fucked. Does he say fuck when he's town? who cares this is not how you meta someone | ||
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most shit comes out sounding bad | ||
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he seems to always post this little and his style is fairly similar between scum and town. However he did play at a time when post counts were much lower than they are now. On June 11 2015 07:52 ShoCkeyy wrote: Welp that explains Foot's play style, just like in the mini mafia I played in before, the small responses and caps lock posts late into the game. I should of seen it's definitely is town play from GB. Foot, who do you think should be next? Onegu, your thoughts, you haven't really said much this game which makes me worry about you at this point. This implies Shockeyy has played with GB before... but he's only played one mini, and it was like 5 years ago. GB can you confirm you've never played with Shockey before? | ||
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On June 11 2015 15:53 The Shining wrote: No, I'm mad that you said you'd kill me for it, when Onegu and Shockeyy are also players under the radar and not playing how I've seen them play before. Inconsistency. And when have I ever been OK with being scummed or lynched as town? Like bugs brings me up as this "missing link" and now out of all the players, you're okay saying you would kill me. And you said that either after you read my filter and thought my EoD was towny so you want to kill someone with towny points, or before you read my filter, which is a very bold statement and horrible town play if you were willing to kill me before even reading. So which was it? explain this when did you see Shockeyy play | ||
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On June 12 2015 05:47 batsnacks wrote: So....... Who saved bugs? I wasn't saved I don't think, I'm not a blue | ||
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why did you say this On June 11 2015 15:53 The Shining wrote: No, I'm mad that you said you'd kill me for it, when Onegu and Shockeyy are also players under the radar and not playing how I've seen them play before. Inconsistency. And when have I ever been OK with being scummed or lynched as town? Like bugs brings me up as this "missing link" and now out of all the players, you're okay saying you would kill me. And you said that either after you read my filter and thought my EoD was towny so you want to kill someone with towny points, or before you read my filter, which is a very bold statement and horrible town play if you were willing to kill me before even reading. So which was it? when have you played with/seen shockeyy play | ||
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ah yes, that explains a lot see this is why I ask people for their past games | ||
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batsnacks Kickstart Breske switched Kickstart to yamato I didn't realize order mattered till BH's FAQ post | ||
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so we can safely assume BM is scum and he's not even bothering to defend himself at this point. The only purpose that would serve would be to shit up the thread and there is literally no defense that will keep him alive so whatever. Waste of time/effort on his part so it's no surprise. The last scum can be one of only 4 players IMO, in order of decreasing likelihood: Shockeyy Tubesock Shining Onegu We lynch straight down that list and we probably win the game | ||
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On June 12 2015 06:21 Breshke wrote: Even easier WBG we split that list in half. Two of those players plus another two players vote for player A in their one slot witchcraft vote. Then put player C as their second vote these guys vote first so player A reaches 4 votes first Then the remaining two scumspects plus the remaining three players vote player B in their one slot plus player C in their two slot. So player A has 4 and B has 5 if scum is on A then b gets elected if scum is on B then A gets elected cos they got 4 first. Both PRs can then blaspheme into this group and even if one does we probably win the game tomorrow. Does this make sense it's 7 am for me so it might not yeah I'm trying to figure out a voting plan that would do as you describe. The problem is that if you end up with 1 scum in each of the two then you end up with even votes...but that's probably okay because we can just alternate lynch. | ||
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Let's say we do a vote split like this. Take Yamato out because he's basically confirmed town and that gives us an even number. List A: WBG, Shining, Tube, Breske vote YAMATO, BATS - > should result in 4 votes on yamato/bats List B: Onegu, Shockeyy, bats, FF vote WBG, BRESKE - > should result in 4 votes on wbg/breske If Yamato, Bats get elected scum is in list B If WBG, Breske get elected scum is in list A Yamato should vote for FF/Onegu or something and waste the vote so we have 8 people | ||
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On June 12 2015 06:29 Breshke wrote: WBG how did you not die? Are you not a PR or was there normal kp on you? I am not a power role. There are 2 ways I could've lived 1. They used the Witch Hunter KP on me, and it missed 2. I ate the normal KP and someone protted me. We can't tell the difference cause there is no RB. | ||
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god I can't count | ||
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On June 12 2015 06:35 wherebugsgo wrote: 9 players, 2 are scum -> Let's say we do a vote split like this. Take Yamato out because he's basically confirmed town and that gives us an even number. List A: WBG, Shining, Tube, Breske vote YAMATO, BATS - > should result in 4 votes on yamato/bats List B: Onegu, Shockeyy, bats, FF vote WBG, BRESKE - > should result in 4 votes on wbg/breske If Yamato, Bats get elected scum is in list B If WBG, Breske get elected scum is in list A Yamato should vote for FF/Onegu or something and waste the vote so we have 8 people thoughts on this please. Let's coordinate the votes today The players who get voted will basically confirm the voters as townies. So for example if me/Breske get elected then Onegu/Shockeyy/bats/FF are all confirmed if yamato/bats get elected then it confirms myself, Shining, Tube, and Breske It would also confirm the people getting voted for, which would leave only 2 candidates on each side to be scum | ||
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On June 12 2015 06:43 batsnacks wrote: I appear to be in both lists. Would you guys like me to make the plan? lol you're not in both lists. read again. your vote goes on WBG/Breske | ||
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On June 12 2015 06:43 Onegu wrote: Dont understand each side is supposed to get 4 votes. If one of the sides gets 3 votes, then we know in the list of voters that one of them had to be scum. We split the 4 scum candidates into groups of 2 and put them on opposite sides. The result is that this plan will autoconfirm four townies at once. Since yamato is already basically confirmed that means by beginning of d3 we will have 5 confirmed townies (although one of them might be dead) | ||
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On June 12 2015 06:51 Onegu wrote: What if lets say you and breshke are scum and we get wrecked by this??? how the fuck can me and breshke both be scum if BM is scum | ||
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we'll know because mafia cannot kill 3 people, which is the number they need to kill for us to not know who got elected. If I am scum and I kill Breske, then Yamato/Bats will know they weren't elected and will be alive tomorrow. If Bats is scum and kills yamato, myself and Breske will know we were not elected. Pretty simple to understand. Yes, if me/breske get elected, any one of us 4 (WBG, Breske, Shining Tube) could be scum but the far more likely answer is that 1 out of 2 of Shining and Tube is scum. That occurs while FOUR townies get autoconfirmed. Scum can't win that shit because every day we can confirm more townies through the proper voting pattern. | ||
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On June 12 2015 06:54 Onegu wrote: BM hasnt flipped yet. so what? are you saying that yamato is lying? BM hasn't flipped but one of him or yamato has to be scum | ||
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On June 12 2015 06:56 Onegu wrote: oh yamato claimed something? yes, he claimed he tracked BM to me and Kickstart I'm alive so that basically confirms me as town if BM flips scum. | ||
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cool dude you should write a guide on how to write shitty posts and take credit for wins | ||
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one of them is guaranteed to live, so we get one of: the last scum another confirmed town | ||
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scum should give up now | ||
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What was the third one? | ||
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me and BM together... | ||
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On June 12 2015 10:09 The Shining wrote: So we know why Bugs didn't die now, then. no, I didn't live because of the prot unless one of the claimers is lying you have to explain how KS died if the JK saved me. I had to have eaten the WH shot, and kickstart probably ate the normal shot. This makes the most sense because scum probably knew I was going to be protted. | ||
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it's impossible for you to win my friend | ||
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##vote Bill Murray | ||
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On June 12 2015 08:08 The Shining wrote: So I vote Yamato bats? yes for anyone confused on the plan this is what we are doing: Let's say we do a vote split like this. Take Yamato out because he's basically confirmed town and that gives us an even number. List A: WBG, Shining, Tube, Breske vote YAMATO, BATS - > should result in 4 votes on yamato/bats List B: Onegu, Shockeyy, bats, FF vote WBG, BRESKE - > should result in 4 votes on wbg/breske If Yamato, Bats get elected scum is in list B If WBG, Breske get elected scum is in list A Yamato should vote for FF/Onegu or something and waste the vote so we have 8 people If your name is WBG, The Shining, Tubesock, Breshke you are voting YAMATO AND BATSNACKS If your name is Onegu, Shockeyy, batsnacks, or FrozenFoot you are voting WBG AND BRESHKE If your name is Yamato, you vote for any player other than those listed (e.g. FF/Onegu) the two that win roles tonight will confirm their 4 voters as town. Assuming BM flips scum both yamato and I become confirmed too. There can then only be 4 players who can be scum and we can even repeat the process again tomorrow if need be. | ||
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Bats claimed he sent in actions | ||
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On June 13 2015 03:42 Blazinghand wrote: Gentle Reminder: voting for Witchcraft is mandatory. You may not abstain. follow the plan people If your name is WBG, The Shining, Tubesock, Breshke you are voting YAMATO AND BATSNACKS If your name is Onegu, Shockeyy, batsnacks, or FrozenFoot you are voting WBG AND BRESHKE If your name is Yamato, you vote for any player other than those listed (e.g. FF/Onegu) the two that win roles tonight will confirm their 4 voters as town. Assuming BM flips scum both yamato and I become confirmed too. There can then only be 4 players who can be scum and we can even repeat the process again tomorrow if need be. | ||
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so they will kill into me/Yamato One solution would be for bats to take JK. He JKs me and Yamato takes morph. Then if scum need to kill someone they have to shoot into the remaining (or bats). Honestly don't think it really matters. Yamato/bats could both go for blaspheme/track and then send an action on Onegu/FF. One of them dies but it doesn't matter because the other person will successfully get a check | ||
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On June 13 2015 09:33 batsnacks wrote: Well I'll blaspheme Onegu and yamato can rodent shocky and then... the game is unwinable for mafia so gg. agreed with this you guys should just do that | ||
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no mislynches | ||
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On June 13 2015 09:40 ShoCkeyy wrote: This would be a flawless vic and 2 - 0 for me since I've returned! if you are town (along with Tube and Shining) you should probably reread the newbie guide | ||
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On June 13 2015 09:45 ShoCkeyy wrote: Yea, definitely will, too much has changed since my games years ago. I remember clues used to also be part of the day/night posts in regards to who was mafia (you were forced to add info into your profile to create clues, don't know if this still happens?). I think the biggest change is the sheer number of posts people post so much nowadays that in order to make effective town you need to at least put more content and thought into your posts. I remember when I first played people would call each other town after like 3-4 posts and I'd go "WTF" and it was because a lot of them knew how each other played. That's still true to some extent now, but as people become better it becomes imperative that townies stay active in the game because it then makes mafia's job in keeping their stories consistent much harder | ||
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The only player that did not confirm was FF. FF scum? lel | ||
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and who voted Kickstart I voted neither | ||
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On June 13 2015 10:18 The Shining wrote: I voted for whoever the fuck I wanted to. see, this is why everyone thinks you are bad | ||
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at least new players are willing to accept that they suck | ||
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On June 13 2015 10:29 The Shining wrote: I've caught scum plenty, both PRs and cases and in lylo, I voted both scum this game, haven't lost as scum and won a few town games. Yeah I'm terrible. This is why people think you're a prick. plenty people in this game have voted both scum. Practically the entirety of the playerbase voted both of the scum. You're not making a point here, which is another reason why you're bad | ||
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On June 13 2015 10:29 batsnacks wrote: >.> please be mafia, please be mafia, please be mafia. I mean you didn't object to the plan when it was posted. <.< idk I don't think he can be scum unless multiple people fucked up the votes guess that is possible | ||
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since you are so good at this game can you tell us who you think the last scum is so we can sheep you to victory? | ||
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On June 12 2015 00:39 Onegu wrote: Kinda split on BM Like I really hate how he threatened to replace out. Seemed fake anger to me. But not sure he would have hard defended LS that hard as scum... anyone else notice this? this was d2 | ||
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also this response was rather odd because my scenario was hypothetical it seems onegu was skimming and took my response at face value | ||
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On June 13 2015 10:40 The Shining wrote: Because I come back to the thread all happy and expecting to see a scum flip and instead get insulted on my play for absolutely fucking nothing by some trash scrub who has been insulting people all game. I was forced to read through all his toxic posts and now that it's been directed towards me, I will be damned if you think I'm just gonna take it. Fuck that. And no lol. I really hope Tube was being serious and I really hope Tube is town. It would be funny as fuck to see this town lose over a double modkill mislynch combo. maybe if you actually bothered to play I wouldn't be calling you bad I am frustrated because people sign up for games and they don't fucking play. Like you, and tube, and the rest of the lurking players like fucking stutters who got modkilled. If you are town this game, which 99% you are, and you don't understand how frustrating it is because you're generally a lurky player, then it's no surprise you take an offense to what I am saying. There is nothing good about the way you play because even with the best of reads no one can understand your thought process. | ||
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On June 13 2015 10:41 The Shining wrote: Yeah it is a team game. So why do you feel the need to trash everyone on your team? Prick. Calling people bad implies we didn't help win which in turn implies it was all you. Do you really need your ego to be stroked that badly? How can I tell you are on my team if you play like you're not | ||
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it's frustrating as fuck to think a lurker is town. Occasionally they aren't and the reason they slip by is because so many other townies end up looking scummier by sitting around and doing nothing. There's almost 0 chance LS would've been lynched day 1 without a massive bandwagon effort, stutters would've eaten that lynch just like inactive townies eat lynches all the time. | ||
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you don't think that's bad??!!? | ||
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of course I'm going to call you bad after you do shit all. | ||
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I think a day 1 modkill, for example, is unacceptable and ban-worthy. Lurkers have plagued the forum since I can remember and it makes the game really frustrating to play | ||
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a person who lurks, in particular a user of an Internet message board or chat room who does not participate. I'm not the only one who thought you were scum or made questionable posts, indeed even yamato said stuff like this: On June 10 2015 02:44 yamato77 wrote: This is majority lynch, you can't just say you're not going to lynch the main wagons with like six hours left and vote a fucking lurker On June 10 2015 04:20 yamato77 wrote: The Shining is also managing to look worse and worse with every post but he's probably just an idiot. it's often been a running joke that the players who look the worst in a game are all townies. Anyway I'm not going to continue this now but if you legitimately want to know my opinion then we can discuss it post game. | ||
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he can't shoot one of them that way | ||
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either way 1 of them probably dies. Yamato is probably dead no matter what we do so either we have yamato check some dude that isn't onegu, e.g. shockey, and have bats check onegu then if bats dies we just autolynch onegu. Bats takes blaspheme let's say, and yamato takes track. OR we have them both check onegu with both types of checks. He won't know which one is the blaspheme check so he's gonna have to guess who to kill. The other dude checks him. If onegu is the scum we guarantee we find out and autolynch him tomorrow. | ||
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If yamato takes RB and blocks Onegu and bats takes blaspheme and checks Shockey, we can safely lynch Shockeyy | ||
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god damn | ||
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On June 13 2015 16:12 Kickstart wrote: He didn't have me fooled! ^^ GG town. gj I was rereading why you might've died and I kept wondering about FF hahaha Kept convincing myself I was wrong for various reason or another | ||
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I really doubt BM would've lived day 2 no matter what happened, though. You were the only shot at mafia winning. Also I really do mean everything I said about smurfs day 1. Look at how much meta played into getting LS killed and BM suspected. Both yamato and I agreed that it wasn't like BM to play like this as town. Meta is so useful when used properly. | ||
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wtf were town doing | ||
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I was starting to think he was more town over time because of the sheer number of people yelling at me but on d1 I would never have considered voting him On June 13 2015 16:48 yamato77 wrote: I agree with your point in principle but disagree with it in practice, because rarely will a town smurf just freely out and most of the time you just waste a lot of the time in the day you could be using to pressure players for things they've actually done since role PMs were handed out. Even when the smurf in question is mafia, it's impossible to get people to policy lynch a smurf and convincing people that ONLY a mafia smurf wouldn't out is just loltastic. All it does is make you look worse for focusing on such an irrelevant point and give the player in question reason to be a dick and OMGUS you. nah it was very clear based on the pressure that he was either hiding being a smurf for a bad reason or he was scum. Like for almost 12 hours we got almost nothing out of him, and it forced him to be more active, but he never provided real reads I only backed off because of the sheer backlash I got, otherwise I would've kept tunneling him till he died. I got almost no backup at all on that push so I switched to LS also if I knew his meta I probably would've nailed him 100%. I didn't have the time to look into his past games when he slipped GB but at that point I assumed I was wrong already | ||
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I had really unpopular opinions for most of the day but LS failed kinda hard | ||
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On June 13 2015 16:52 FreezingFoot wrote: Sorry, "pretty sure" is not what you actually were The idea that "no mafia would be this bold to defend a scum partner" was very present in thread I didn't agree with that, not in this setup. giving up a KP day 1? fuck that shit | ||
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On June 13 2015 16:54 FreezingFoot wrote: ^ this You actually made things very easy to me in early day 1 with this, bugs. why? I really don't understand why this is such a controversial opinion. I think I did my best to show why it was in town's best interest to either get something out of you, whether it be an identity or reads. We got absolutely nothing and yet people still considered you town I only backed off because people disagreed with me. Generally when so many people disagree with me I start convincing myself that I am wrong. I did not like what you posted but I gave it a rest because it was destroying the thread. That's why I started calling you bad, because if so many people disagreed with me I thought you must be an idiot townie who I should start ignoring for having bad opinions. It's good that I picked up on LS otherwise I would've started tunneling some poor townie like stutters also it was definitely NOT a policy lynch. It was pressure based on being a smurf and I didn't like the direction you took after the pressure | ||
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On June 13 2015 16:58 FreezingFoot wrote: Would never reveal who I was if I were town. I chose to smurf so people wouldn't have this idea that "he is glowingbear, he is wrong". But then I rolled scum, and being bad would be helpful if I got my identity revealed at some point. In other words, in the beginning of the game, you were right for the wrong reasons except the reads you provided weren't even reads lol they had no specificity to them | ||
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e: On June 13 2015 17:00 FreezingFoot wrote: Yes, but this has nothing to do with the smurf matter? yes, it does. Some people just don't have specificity in their reads when they are town, because they have bad reads in general. With those types of players if you know that (and the only way you'd know that is by reading their town games) you can adjust your read of them based on that. After having read some of your town games I know you may be wrong sometimes but you at least give reasons for your reads. Your reasons this game either didn't exist or they sucked (and by sucked I mean the thought process made close to 0 sense from a town perspective) but without knowing your identity I had no idea whether that was normal or not So the only gauge I had was other people disagreeing with me so I backed off smurfing is powerful as fuck when you land scum. | ||
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When people actually understand this they'll stop giving a fuck if smurfing has "benefits that go beyond his team's goals" which is a fancier way of saying "smurfing benefits the player themselves." That's exactly my overarching point, in like 99% of cases smurfing only benefits the individual player. Town play is entirely team-based, which is why it's almost never in town's interest to have a smurf. e: also if you have personal interests in smurfing and you don't want to reveal you identity that's generally fine, as I mentioned in-game. Your reaction was solely based on identity though, which was very telling. Since you lacked proper reads that led me further into believing you were scum. Again the problem was convincing other people, which is so incredibly hard. I've found it's easier to convince them emotionally which is usually why I get people to mislynch into randoms when I play scum. As town for whatever reason I find it really hard to do that because it's hard to use emotion while simultaneously having high confidence you have a scum lynch. Basically what happens is if you lynch the wrong dude you end up dying yourself because you so persuasively told everyone some poor townie was scum | ||
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Anyway the interesting part to me is that convincing other people as scum is fairly easy because you don't have to worry about being wrong. Well, you can worry about being wrong but worrying about being wrong will usually get you killed because you'll start to show it in your posts. As town though you have to constantly worry if you are wrong which makes it hard to convince people to vote with you. You can't use emotional appeals because if you end up being wrong you'll look like an idiot and people will try to lynch you (and then you get further away from finding scum) I really admire those players who can simultaneously find scum and convince townies to vote with them cause that job is so hard thanks to BH and HtS for hosting and dealing with shenanigans | ||
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On June 13 2015 17:15 FreezingFoot wrote: But here is something you're ignoring: yamato instantly townread me because he got to known I was GB and I had wrong reads. Revealing myself was better to me than to town. Your argument is too objective. You're just saying that with a smurf you have one less instrument for reading a player: meta. But meta can work for both sides, as I just said about yamato's townread on me. IMO: biggest problem of a smurf is when it lurks. And if I kept lurking, you were totally right for wanting to lynch me. But if I kept my activity high, wanting to lynch me at EOD because you didn't know my identity is silly. IMO yes, but that's because yamato used meta incorrectly. I don't think he bothered to do a behavioural analysis, he fell into the trap that results matter. He was like oh well GB gets reads wrong as town and since his reads all suck here he must be town which logically makes no sense at all e: for the record by that point I had also been convinced by my self and everyone else that you were town so I wasn't really paying attention to you and I didn't even bother looking up your past games because I trusted yamato's read. that is something I messed up and I know I won't do in the future | ||
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interested in knowing what omniscient viewers thought e: and obs I guess. I actually am curious what people think about the smurf stuff, among other things | ||
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On June 13 2015 17:24 FreezingFoot wrote: All I'm trying to say, bugs, is that although you played very well (aside being a dick to people ) is that I was townread by my own merits and not just because you were yelled at. Also, there was a post of yours saying something like "well, he could have gambled and tried to save his partner AND looking not-scum because scum would never be so bold" That was like... Soul reading hahahaha yeah that was my interpretation of what scum would do (and I was still very convinced you were mafia). It would definitely have been what I would've done and in the QT I would've been yelling at my teammate to stop being useless and go do something so we don't lose a member and a KP I think you're talking about this post On June 10 2015 08:35 wherebugsgo wrote: the other thing is that FF took a lot of attention for his antics close to lynch time and scum are generally fully aware of this. If indeed he is scum he either gambled on it saving LS and wasting the lynch, which I guess he thought was more valuable than losing a scum teammate. I would probably agree if I were in that boat and I had a scum teammate roll over and die on day 1-losing someone day 1 fucking sucks but it's actually surprisingly easy to prevent while ending up looking okay simply because most people will label you as not being scum because of how bold you need to be to do that. Since I think we should just treat FF as likely to be one of the better players in this game, even though I think his opinions all suck, we should probably take them at face value instead of giving him the benefit of the doubt. hehe at the time I full believed both you and BM were scum but I was starting to get convinced that maybe I was wrong about you and it was someone else. But I still did that night experiment with the read percentages cause I knew BM was scum and talking to him was gonna waste a boatload of time and I wanted more info on other people. You didn't even bother responding IIRC LOL | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On June 13 2015 17:41 yamato77 wrote: In a strict sense, he was like third on the list out of the 4 non-confirmed voters behind Shockey and Onegu. We confirm one of those two that night, and then lynch the other one. Then it's FF/Breshke and we use voting to determine which. It didn't really matter, lol. yeah, I agree haha it would've been enough WTF for me to wonder whether the votes got fucked up (which they did, but it didn't end up hurting us) we actually also may have confirmed both simultaneously with RB/check and skipped straight to lynching him | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
It would be better as a 16 player setup with 4 scum. I think even better would be to give mafia two players that can vote for blues, and remove all KP roles. That way scum can influence the votes themselves and be elected even with scum votes just like in games where you can have a scum mayor. | ||
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