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Sorry I lied, was playing SG a bit.
Am defs here now and rereading.
On April 26 2015 11:56 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 11:00 WaveofShadow wrote:
BTW, it's shit like this that made me question Trfel about 100 times. It didn't take me that long to go through the posts I had missed/skimmed, so why does it take him hours to read like 3 pages when he says he's doing it?
If anyone's around I'm up to talk, though apparently my timing is shit compared to everyone else's. Gonna reread Trfel/Breshke/Damdred/Artanis in the meantime. dunnae but it always does? lol >< i get that you don't like the meta which is why i didn't really want to go into it...i feel like he's capable of looking town when he tries, anyway anyway...lol >< i could just be wrong on bresh i dunnae...would be pretty damn easy if it was just yamato/artanis and easy definitely has its appeal and i guess i could be wrong on truffle, too do you mind quoting the yamato post you're referring to? i want to make sure we're talking about the same thing
What are you referring to?
The taunting/boasting post was the one right after the lynch, and I think the one you've beenr eferring to is his long response post after you called him out for it.
The point I'm trying to make is it's the taunting itself I find hard to come from scum whereas you said the explaining negates it somehow.
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On April 26 2015 12:13 Damdred wrote:Sad day im not higher and you have me linked with possible scum  . I actually think Yamato is towny in his filter I did a bit of research on yamatos scum games. He's not really destroying thread here and much more active than his sxum games. He has fallen off considerably this 48 hours and that is a red flag but he did the same thing in mini mafia 2 which just ended. I don't think it 100% clears him but I think his filter is really indicative of a town Yamato at this point.
WARNING: META
Yamato's activity falls off in pretty much any game, but as scum it's just likely to be a hell of a lot more fall-off-y. As town he usually has some sort of catalyst that brings him back into the game whether pressure/scum lynch/something crazy happening and as scum that doesn't exist and he more or less gives up/shits things up as you said. This game has moved pretty slowly thus far and it's hard to tell here which is which even were I to use meta.
The other thing about mini mafia 2 is he's probably super demoralized from it for losing the game at LYLO.
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On April 26 2015 12:16 Damdred wrote:
I've added like 4 pages to my filter in 6 hours that was a dead thread O-o no scum motivation and original content shame on you.
And nah palmar can be that as scum to
Unfortunately this doesn't mean shit when you're conversing back and forth with obvtown and you're not under any real pressure. Despite popular belief, posting is not all that hard as scum, nor is creating content. I'm not a huge fan of clearing people based on number of pages and I don't like that you'd bring it up. I find self-meta to be kinda scummy.
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Ok I thought you were referring to the response after.
Let me see...uhh what's contradictory about his stance exactly?
Oh ok this one
On April 23 2015 08:21 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2015 08:17 rsoultin wrote:
how many days do you want to put off lynching, yamato?
he was in the thread last night and being obstructive. did you say you liked his case? what did you like about it? I said it wasn't that bad Do you really believe ONLY scum BH makes a case like that? I certainly don't. I don't even like damdred that much this game. I don't really care for his responses to the case either. He essentially came out with nothing. How was he being obstructive? He argued about his case, sure, but who wouldn't want to defend their piece of work? It's silly to scumread him for believing his read. What do we really lose by not lynching right now, exactly? I argued against this sort of idea before but only as a means to actually apply pressure. It doesn't mean anything to lynch BH here because he's really only been in the thread to post his case and defend it.
The thing is, it's only this post itself which is contradictory. Every other post he has made regarding BH he seems to think BH could be town, or at least to delay things.
On April 23 2015 08:10 yamato77 wrote:
looking back at one memorable BH-mislynch, the guy got REALLY active once it was apparent he was going to be lynched.
is it really imperative that we lynch him without giving him a proper chance?
I mean, if he's scum he's going to continue to delay and be useless and probably just tunnel damdred (a la single-focus mindset in aperture). As town, maybe he becomes more useful?
On April 23 2015 07:39 yamato77 wrote:
btw, if anyone wants my take on BH meta I'll go dig up a couple old games but it's not incredibly conclusive
On April 23 2015 07:45 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2015 07:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
BH deserves to be lynched for not posting the British Empire Mafia post-game analysis anyway. So you consent to the BH lynch, Artanis? or...?
Hedging bets, maybe?
Eh.
Considering his explanation of the one post I dunno if it's all that bad. Like the one thing he said that could be taken in favor of a BH lynch is 'what do we lose by lynching here exactly' but in the sam,e paragraph he says it doesn't mean anything to lynch BH so I don't find the perceived contradiciton conclusive especially in light of his explanation. The lack of....anything and maybe hedging the bets looks worse I suppose
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On April 26 2015 12:24 rsoultin wrote:
shut up damdy ^^
i have my reasons for most things and regardless does it really matter where you're at on my list as long as i'm not lynching you? pbbbbfffttt xP
i said tone. it is like impossible for me to explain tone :/ i can't tell y'all how many times i have tried. but i really just never got this damn palmar is maybe scum this game vibe from him like ever
I can appreciate tone reads. More so than meta anyway.
On April 26 2015 12:27 rsoultin wrote:
so you have two bullets wave. who would you use them on right this second?
Probably yamato/trfel.
Haven't finished rereading artanis/damdred/breshke but at this point I think of everyone they look the worst even if the yamato thing gimme the jibblies.
Like....he's almost a unanimous scumread and he was almost lynched. Doesn't always bode well. But it also just makes sense.
argh
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Oh I hate that post of yamato's and I've been pointing it out since the start but I hate it for different reasons.
I think ultimately this yamato business is going to boil down to us either lynching him tomorrow or agreeing to wait for him to come back. The entire thread has discussed him constantly.
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Well just like any game, it helps when they actually play for us to read them.
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On April 26 2015 18:51 yamato77 wrote:Reading Wave's filter, I intentionally sift through to find his vote. Doesn't say much on its own. Let's backtrack a bit. Show nested quote +On April 22 2015 23:53 WaveofShadow wrote:
Unfortunately you're probably right about palmar but it's hard to shrug off his uselessness and targeting of me specifically.
I'm not getting hung up on wording but at the very least i know BH is capable of all sorts of play as either alignment. If I'm going to lynch him it's not going to be solely for stalling (despite his epic tech in call mafia).
Assuming BH is scum think the other scum might be Trfel but I havent had a chance to flesh that out much. Artanis' read on him is OK but relies way too much on meta for my liking. Show nested quote +On April 23 2015 00:24 WaveofShadow wrote:On April 23 2015 00:08 rsoultin wrote:
okay, wave. vote bh with me
i'm looking through filters, and i'll discuss anyone you want...even start with the people you're suspicious of...however i think you're fully aware that voting bh is not "solely" because he's stalling lol ><
yes, he's stalling but he also wrote a giant-ass case with little-to-no original content, he's refused to talk about anything else, and he deliberately provoked me ^^ i've seen his town-game and this doesn't look like it
he was similarly useless then, but not to this extent
I do enjoy hammering. Gimme a bit to eat and we will discuss things. Show nested quote +On April 23 2015 00:33 WaveofShadow wrote:On April 23 2015 00:31 Blazinghand wrote:On April 23 2015 00:28 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
It means you're just pointing out things and creating a story behind why it makes him scum when it's just as possible to create a story behind it from a town perspective. so whenever anyone says "narrative", they're just saying I'm wrong without explaining why or using specifics. kk Not true. It's just exceedingly simply to go through someone's filter post-by-post and say whatever you want about them to spin things in a specific light. My issue with you isn't even that specifically, I find that alignment non-indicative. My issue is the fact that you haven't read the thread and took everything damdred did completely out of context. This is the lead-up to the vote and it's... uninspiring. He goes from that truly awful first post with all the waffle and bullshit in the world to "I love hammering" to "You're scum because context, man". Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 03:17 WaveofShadow wrote:Especially when you apply it incorrectly and presume that since Marv once told you that Yamato is absolutely terrible at scum, you figure he can't have 4 pages so far and have pushed some things.
Where did I do this? And no in my experience meta is shit terrible, and I am certainly not marv, one of very few people who can maybe attempt to use it correctly. essentially the call is are we feeling lynchy or do we wait for yamato And frankly by the time 48h rolls around im always feeling lynchy I want to see a flip so I'll sheep rsoul ##unvote
##vote: yamato77 Next vote, not entirely impressive either on its own. His read on me is just as all over the place as his read on BH was from D1. Yet again, though, he's sheeping rsoul and seems rather lynch-happy which is actually kinda scummy in an IML game. From my perspective, it's obviously pretty easy to see the mafia motivation to slapping your vote down on yet another easy wagon in the hopes of pushing through a lynch. Just by looking at his voting justifications in this game, Wave looks pretty bad. He doesn't seem overly concerned with finding a good lynch, he seems like he's just dicking around and lynching whoever everyone else wants to without much thought. I've noted the inconsistent and illogical nature of his reads this game, even very early on, so I won't go further in detail with that except to say that it really hasn't changed. A casual glance through his filter tracking his read on any single player is enough to prove that point.
lol I don't see what's scummy about any of this tbh
Mebbe someone else can point it out
Not impressed with yamato's return nearly as much as the beginning of today.
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On April 27 2015 06:38 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 06:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 27 2015 06:23 Trfel wrote:
Artanis, can you please briefly summarize all of the reasons for your scumread on me? Examples aren't necessary.
Thanks! 1) Tonally very different from your towngame; much more certain in reads until I pinged it out 2) Could not follow your read progression on me. Pointed it out before which you never addressed. 3) Handing out a lot of townreads in general for pretty sketchy reasoning. Those are my main reasons. As for my tone itself, I can't address. For read certainty, the reads you comment on here being more certain are my townreads. I haven't really had a solid scumread all game long. I don't understand why you have problems with my read progression on you. Most of the posts that you cite were while I was in discussion with people, so we were looking at things and posting our thoughts. My thoughts on you weren't complete, I posted after basically every new (notable) thing that I found, or that someone else pointed out. My read on you changed as I got more information. As for you getting a townread from me easier than before, it's because I held you to standards that are too high last game, and I (hopefully) corrected that error. If you expect me to not rethink my reads when given new information... it's just a sign of lazy play. As for the reasoning behind my townreads, I guess you're right about this. I have most likely townread someone incorrectly, as per this response to your earlier question: Show nested quote +On April 25 2015 08:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 25 2015 07:32 Trfel wrote:
Sorry, I'm not going to be around for the deadline.
I'm fairly confident that at least one of my townreads is mafia, I'll take another look at them soon. What makes you say this? My track record, plus I have too many townreads. I guess this has generally felt like a low-content game, and I'm having trouble finding mafia, so I resorted to being more liberal with townreads, which probably wasn't the best idea.
Rsoul do you see the difference here in how Breshke has too many townreads and how Trfel does?
I don't think I vote Bresh or Artanis today if we lynch anyone.
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On April 27 2015 06:47 Damdred wrote:
Yamato isn't getting lynched who then wave
Trfel.
On April 27 2015 06:54 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 06:52 Damdred wrote:
Trfel New reads lists type deal please. Why... As of page 39: Townrsoultin WaveofShadow Town LeanDamdred Palmar Maybe Scum (filter dives pending)Artanis Breshke yamato77
This list of his is pretty weak, simply pinging everyone on the block already today.
I'm completely underwhelmed by everything he done so far in this game, and while his play has been pretty similar to Breshke, I haven't had that 'this couldn't come from scum' feeling or seen any of those posts.
If yamato isn'[t being lynched today I would lynch trfel.
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How was I willing to discuss anything in Aperture 4?
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On April 27 2015 07:10 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Basically, what's weird to me about Palmar is how Wave is his prime suspect, yet he never really goes to full lengths to get him lynched or research him, but rather just goes after Yamato when thread sentiment is turning against Yamato making him an easier mislynch (presuming Yamato is town). It doesn't seem like he's all that concerned about getting Wave lynched. His vote on him is completely meaningless too with no thread support and him not trying at all to get people on board the Wave train. He's never added anything to his initial case.
See that's the thing about Palmar. He never seems concerned enough to do anything, ever. If you can somehow tell by meta that this is town/scum Palmar by all means but as far as in-thread confidence goes I still have him at least townier than null.
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Breshke I get, yamato I don't.
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And where do you get 'stay alive-y' from Palmar?
He's been coming in and posting at pretty random times and none of i is when he's under suspicion or anything, and you don't feel as though he has an agenda even though he's pushed me (and to a lesser extent yamato) nonstop?
I don't udnerstand though how Palmar immediately townreads yamato just because of his few posts last night tbh
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Does he normally try to make people listen?
I can't honestly remember an experience with Palmar where he's impressed me in that way.
Trfel would you consider Palmar's posting so far trolling?
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On April 27 2015 07:32 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 07:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Goddamnit, let's try this again. I think you removed the comment in between that I made, so I deleted it from the quotes too. On April 27 2015 07:25 Trfel wrote:On April 27 2015 07:15 WaveofShadow wrote:On April 27 2015 07:10 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Basically, what's weird to me about Palmar is how Wave is his prime suspect, yet he never really goes to full lengths to get him lynched or research him, but rather just goes after Yamato when thread sentiment is turning against Yamato making him an easier mislynch (presuming Yamato is town). It doesn't seem like he's all that concerned about getting Wave lynched. His vote on him is completely meaningless too with no thread support and him not trying at all to get people on board the Wave train. He's never added anything to his initial case. See that's the thing about Palmar. He never seems concerned enough to do anything, ever. If you can somehow tell by meta that this is town/scum Palmar by all means but as far as in-thread confidence goes I still have him at least townier than null. I actually disagree. Palmar knows that if all he does is troll, it will be somewhat hard to lynch him. Instead, Palmar started reading the game and making actual cases (cases which I don't think were all that good, but they were definitely serious cases). I don't think that these cases help Palmar at all, in fact they might actually hurt him, I think that really his motivation was to find scum (even if not enough to make him play the game properly). Quick question, his reason to scumread WaveofShadow wasn't the initial reason that he forgot, right? It was a different reason? I disagree. I think if he does nothing but troll and other people look townie, he'll probably end getting lynched at some point in this lineup. The fact that the cases weren't good when Palmar is good is telling as well as the fact that he hasn't tried reinforcing them. As for his scumread on Wave, it was part tone, part the analysis on the votes made on Wave. lol this is bullshit. i've seen plenty of bad palmar play and i'm a noob -_- don't try blowing smoke up my ass, artie
What?
Are you saying Palmar is good here or normally good and here he's not?
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Again this is par for the course on Palmar as far as I'm concerned because I haven't played games with him in which he's done anything but variations on this, and I'm really trying to avoid meta, something you clearly aren't concerned with, Artanis.
Like, I'd vote Palmar if I see a concrete reason that's not meta-related as to why he's scum but I don't really see it.
I'm assuming we're going another day at this point, btw?
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On April 27 2015 07:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 07:44 WaveofShadow wrote:
Again this is par for the course on Palmar as far as I'm concerned because I haven't played games with him in which he's done anything but variations on this, and I'm really trying to avoid meta, something you clearly aren't concerned with, Artanis.
Like, I'd vote Palmar if I see a concrete reason that's not meta-related as to why he's scum but I don't really see it.
I'm assuming we're going another day at this point, btw?
I think the fact that he isn't digging further into you further but randomly takes a left turn on Yamato when it's convenient, then jumps off, goes back on you when it crashes and soft accuses me in the meantime is a very clear non-meta reason. You're actually using meta to defend him here in that he can do this as town rather than the opposite. Yes, it's possible that he does this as town. That doesn't mean it's the most likely answer. I'm good with extending the day myself. Show nested quote +On April 27 2015 07:44 rsoultin wrote:
yup that's what i was saying ^^ palmar can play badly as town; it doesn't make him scum
lol >< how many times do i have to say that townreading me is like completely not alignment indicative at all?
dude, someone else had to point out to him that he was parroting me, and frankly i ooze town as town it's why i get night-killed early so often; it's definitely not because i'm a scary player for most scumteams to have to play against -_-
artanis, he randomly townread me. it took like over 24 hours to get an explanation on that shift, because it wasn't explained at the time. no that doesn't show investment in the game. try again I'm not really that interested in defending Breshke at this point anyway since no one but you really wants to lynch him. He's a big boy, he can fend for himself when he's around.
Ugh, fair point, though the confidence isn't meta on its own. Too fucking hard to completely remove meta from the equation when you've played with everyone 10000 times.
Rsoul I totally see what your problem is by the way, and you outlined it perfectly yourself earlier.
You're WAY more likely to townread someone when they just talk to you. Anybody can explain away anything with enough time. Like, you ultimately townread me when I explained my early voting to you but it wasn't enough for some people I don't think (whether a good/true explanation or not). Go look through yamato's filter and show me what his goals have been this game.
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Oh and again, assuming we're extending the day (which I'm pretty meh on either way) my activity dies out pretty hard after this evening. I'll do what I can but no promises.
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On April 27 2015 07:59 rsoultin wrote:
xP i'm right woot!
seriously though there's just not a good instance that shows breshke is actually trying to solve the game in any meaningful way. i don't really even understand some of the posts y'all point out as "townie" to be honest. like "i wrote it down, not that this means anything" ummmm...like okay? why couldn't scum say that? why would town feel the need to say it was written down? it's just...i don't get it -_- maybe i'm bad and that really IS enough to make up for doing jack-all to actually find scum but, i just don't see it
But why do you find Breshke scum for this and not Trfel? I would argue there posting has been similar in that regard.
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EPT
