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Someone told me those 3 were the guys on skype talking and they all agreed each other are town. I dont have complete information here like I just recently learned ve was also talking to you guys
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I have no interest in defending ls btw, I already did that one game and he turned out to be scum.
So I am going to say this once: atm I think sl is townish and I would prefer to go after somebody else.
Which I will do. But I will not be vocally opposing the pressure on ls. Probably ever.
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Did that cunning plan game end?
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Fuck. change ls into sl twice.
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On February 20 2015 18:32 Koshi wrote:
I have no interest in defending ls btw, I already did that one game and he turned out to be scum.
So I am going to say this once: atm I think sl is townish and I would prefer to go after somebody else.
Which I will do. But I will not be vocally opposing the pressure on ls. Probably ever.
ugh who else then
(I am not a valid answer)
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On February 20 2015 18:33 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2015 18:32 Koshi wrote:
I have no interest in defending ls btw, I already did that one game and he turned out to be scum.
So I am going to say this once: atm I think sl is townish and I would prefer to go after somebody else.
Which I will do. But I will not be vocally opposing the pressure on ls. Probably ever. ugh who else then (I am not a valid answer)
Yes. I think you are very scummy tbh.
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On February 20 2015 18:34 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2015 18:33 Eden1892 wrote:On February 20 2015 18:32 Koshi wrote:
I have no interest in defending ls btw, I already did that one game and he turned out to be scum.
So I am going to say this once: atm I think sl is townish and I would prefer to go after somebody else.
Which I will do. But I will not be vocally opposing the pressure on ls. Probably ever. ugh who else then (I am not a valid answer) Yes. I think you are very scummy tbh.
bruh i mean who else will you lynch with me
i'm not lynching me with you
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On February 20 2015 18:26 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2015 18:17 Koshi wrote:On February 20 2015 11:31 Eden1892 wrote:On February 20 2015 11:28 Oatsmaster wrote:
That conversation is totally null for geript eden. How does it make him town? Does geript argue like that as mafia? My impression is that when he gets angry and dug into his trenches like he has with Kurumi here, he's town, and that when he's mafia he tends to avoid tunneling much. I haven't seen his mafia play in a while (maybe ever?) but that's where that came from. (I also think mafia in general try to avoid this kind of argument.) Koshi I could see being mafia. Why not Snickers though? I liked what Koshi had to say about Snickers and I don't think Snickers has done anything to make me think otherwise. On February 20 2015 11:44 Eden1892 wrote:On February 20 2015 11:38 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 20 2015 11:31 Eden1892 wrote:On February 20 2015 11:28 Oatsmaster wrote:
That conversation is totally null for geript eden. How does it make him town? Does geript argue like that as mafia? My impression is that when he gets angry and dug into his trenches like he has with Kurumi here, he's town, and that when he's mafia he tends to avoid tunneling much. I haven't seen his mafia play in a while (maybe ever?) but that's where that came from. (I also think mafia in general try to avoid this kind of argument.) Koshi I could see being mafia. Why not Snickers though? I liked what Koshi had to say about Snickers and I don't think Snickers has done anything to make me think otherwise. I feel that the whole conversation was kurumi saying, "Its like this", and geript saying, "No its not". Thats hardly tunneling. The reason I dont like Koshi's read on Snickers is that Koshi is doing the exact same thing and complaining about no content and asking people to produce content. You must have missed the part where geript says "No way you do this as town" then - I thought it was pretty clear that geript thinks Kurumi is mafia for this and is zeroed in on it. Seems tunnely to me because he's ignoring the possibility that you were the source of the leak. (Were you?) Second part is pretty true, but it doesn't change anything about Snickers himself. I think Koshi's done more than Snickers pretty easily. Koshi dropped some info about LS, he's been questioning Kurumi about his plan for the game, and he brought up Snickers himself. Snickers hasn't done anything beyond calling random things bullshit without offering any analysis or potential suspects or anything. On February 20 2015 13:58 Eden1892 wrote:On February 20 2015 13:45 LightningStrike wrote:
I didn't even post the pms though yet I just waiting for mod to answer my question on it. don't talk about pm'ing the mods about asking for a rule clarification, dummy god have mercy on this poor guy (unless he's mafia) I feel like Town!Eden would have stronger reads than this. I don't think that Town!Eden would start with saying "I could see Koshi being mafia" and then goes for all the green stuff about me. While he also pushes snickers based on everything I said. I don't see Town!Eden do that. Same thing with the LS read. I think this shows scum!Eden not knowing when he should have strong reads. This is a PM game ffs. Why is he having such weak reads? He just said LS was town after he read that entire conversation I had with LS. Now he doubts that read again? Is this town!Eden? I don't think so. ##vote: Eden not really seeing any contradictions tbh the first post was inconclusive about you b/c you hadn't done a lot (which is typically your scum behavior), but you brought up the snickers thing which I thought was good. snickers proceeded to not really try or do anything for several hours and your read made a lot more sense in light of that, so I came around to snickers mafia and you town. recently snickers has tried more so I've felt better about him, but your observation was still pretty good, so I think you're probably town, and I have better lynches like sicklucker and liancourt, so I'm not lynching you today and I'm not doubting my LS read, you're getting me wrong. I was joking about only modkilling someone who broke rules if they're mafia. could have been LS or SL or geript or anybody and I'd have said the same why don't you want to lynch sicklucker? if he's paying attention but clearly not active in the thread or side chats then he's probably mafia. sicklucker is much more active than this as town
1) It is not about contradictions. It is about the strenght of a read. I don't like how you start with calling me possible scum, and then type 5 different reasons why I am probably town. Especially after last game we played in which I was scum and you couldn't find 1 reason why I was town the entire game.
2) Again. It is about the strenght of your LS read. I would expect town!Eden to jokingly beg the mods to not modkill LS because he is obvious town. But you added the possibility that LS is scum instead. Because I feel like you should have LS as strong town.
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On February 20 2015 18:34 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2015 18:34 Koshi wrote:On February 20 2015 18:33 Eden1892 wrote:On February 20 2015 18:32 Koshi wrote:
I have no interest in defending ls btw, I already did that one game and he turned out to be scum.
So I am going to say this once: atm I think sl is townish and I would prefer to go after somebody else.
Which I will do. But I will not be vocally opposing the pressure on ls. Probably ever. ugh who else then (I am not a valid answer) Yes. I think you are very scummy tbh. bruh i mean who else will you lynch with me i'm not lynching me with you
I am more interested why you think Snickers is mafia. Because so far I just read you are scumreading Snickers through reasoning I gave. Which again is not what I expect from Town!Eden.
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It is also about the fact you are trying to manipulate Oats in thinking Snickers is more mafia than I am while keeping the option open I am mafia to Oats.
This pushes your mafia agenda because
1) When I read your post it looks like you pick my side.
2) Oats is not fully convinced I am town.
3) Snickers looks actually pretty town to me since I recapped stuff this morning so you got that misslynch going.
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If I sheep anyone its going to be koshi
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↑ Oh, I also think Oats is town since that mindmeld with rayn so that is why 2) is scummy. You keep townies fighting with each other.
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On February 20 2015 18:37 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2015 18:26 Eden1892 wrote:On February 20 2015 18:17 Koshi wrote:On February 20 2015 11:31 Eden1892 wrote:On February 20 2015 11:28 Oatsmaster wrote:
That conversation is totally null for geript eden. How does it make him town? Does geript argue like that as mafia? My impression is that when he gets angry and dug into his trenches like he has with Kurumi here, he's town, and that when he's mafia he tends to avoid tunneling much. I haven't seen his mafia play in a while (maybe ever?) but that's where that came from. (I also think mafia in general try to avoid this kind of argument.) Koshi I could see being mafia. Why not Snickers though? I liked what Koshi had to say about Snickers and I don't think Snickers has done anything to make me think otherwise. On February 20 2015 11:44 Eden1892 wrote:On February 20 2015 11:38 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 20 2015 11:31 Eden1892 wrote:On February 20 2015 11:28 Oatsmaster wrote:
That conversation is totally null for geript eden. How does it make him town? Does geript argue like that as mafia? My impression is that when he gets angry and dug into his trenches like he has with Kurumi here, he's town, and that when he's mafia he tends to avoid tunneling much. I haven't seen his mafia play in a while (maybe ever?) but that's where that came from. (I also think mafia in general try to avoid this kind of argument.) Koshi I could see being mafia. Why not Snickers though? I liked what Koshi had to say about Snickers and I don't think Snickers has done anything to make me think otherwise. I feel that the whole conversation was kurumi saying, "Its like this", and geript saying, "No its not". Thats hardly tunneling. The reason I dont like Koshi's read on Snickers is that Koshi is doing the exact same thing and complaining about no content and asking people to produce content. You must have missed the part where geript says "No way you do this as town" then - I thought it was pretty clear that geript thinks Kurumi is mafia for this and is zeroed in on it. Seems tunnely to me because he's ignoring the possibility that you were the source of the leak. (Were you?) Second part is pretty true, but it doesn't change anything about Snickers himself. I think Koshi's done more than Snickers pretty easily. Koshi dropped some info about LS, he's been questioning Kurumi about his plan for the game, and he brought up Snickers himself. Snickers hasn't done anything beyond calling random things bullshit without offering any analysis or potential suspects or anything. On February 20 2015 13:58 Eden1892 wrote:On February 20 2015 13:45 LightningStrike wrote:
I didn't even post the pms though yet I just waiting for mod to answer my question on it. don't talk about pm'ing the mods about asking for a rule clarification, dummy god have mercy on this poor guy (unless he's mafia) I feel like Town!Eden would have stronger reads than this. I don't think that Town!Eden would start with saying "I could see Koshi being mafia" and then goes for all the green stuff about me. While he also pushes snickers based on everything I said. I don't see Town!Eden do that. Same thing with the LS read. I think this shows scum!Eden not knowing when he should have strong reads. This is a PM game ffs. Why is he having such weak reads? He just said LS was town after he read that entire conversation I had with LS. Now he doubts that read again? Is this town!Eden? I don't think so. ##vote: Eden not really seeing any contradictions tbh the first post was inconclusive about you b/c you hadn't done a lot (which is typically your scum behavior), but you brought up the snickers thing which I thought was good. snickers proceeded to not really try or do anything for several hours and your read made a lot more sense in light of that, so I came around to snickers mafia and you town. recently snickers has tried more so I've felt better about him, but your observation was still pretty good, so I think you're probably town, and I have better lynches like sicklucker and liancourt, so I'm not lynching you today and I'm not doubting my LS read, you're getting me wrong. I was joking about only modkilling someone who broke rules if they're mafia. could have been LS or SL or geript or anybody and I'd have said the same why don't you want to lynch sicklucker? if he's paying attention but clearly not active in the thread or side chats then he's probably mafia. sicklucker is much more active than this as town 1) It is not about contradictions. It is about the strenght of a read. I don't like how you start with calling me possible scum, and then type 5 different reasons why I am probably town. Especially after last game we played in which I was scum and you couldn't find 1 reason why I was town the entire game. 2) Again. It is about the strenght of your LS read. I would expect town!Eden to jokingly beg the mods to not modkill LS because he is obvious town. But you added the possibility that LS is scum instead. Because I feel like you should have LS as strong town.
ok, i get it's about strength of a read. i still don't see where the issue is. i was uncertain on you in the post you highlighted where i said you were maybe mafia, b/c you hadn't done a lot, but you had done one thing i thought was good (snickers bit). the snickers thing felt more validated over time so i got okay with you being town. your comparison to horn of africa isn't valid because the scenarios are different; you might not agree with this assessment, but i felt you literally did nothing townie in HoA, so of course i found no reason to townread you. you were afk most of the time and didn't do anything to solve the game when you were around. pretty easy read. when i made that post, you were still sorta in afk/not-doing-much land, but you posted the snickers thing, which was townie. so i was uncertain, and then as the game progressed, the snickers thing turned out to be pretty valuable AND you did more (digging into kurumi, chatting with ls and the town circle on the side), so i thought you were town
your second point is pretty plainly overreaching to me. i really don't know how to reply to it because i feel like it's self-evident that i wasn't actually doubting my read on ls. all i can do is insist i wasn't
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On February 20 2015 18:44 Eden1892 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2015 18:37 Koshi wrote:On February 20 2015 18:26 Eden1892 wrote:On February 20 2015 18:17 Koshi wrote:On February 20 2015 11:31 Eden1892 wrote:On February 20 2015 11:28 Oatsmaster wrote:
That conversation is totally null for geript eden. How does it make him town? Does geript argue like that as mafia? My impression is that when he gets angry and dug into his trenches like he has with Kurumi here, he's town, and that when he's mafia he tends to avoid tunneling much. I haven't seen his mafia play in a while (maybe ever?) but that's where that came from. (I also think mafia in general try to avoid this kind of argument.) Koshi I could see being mafia. Why not Snickers though? I liked what Koshi had to say about Snickers and I don't think Snickers has done anything to make me think otherwise. On February 20 2015 11:44 Eden1892 wrote:On February 20 2015 11:38 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 20 2015 11:31 Eden1892 wrote:On February 20 2015 11:28 Oatsmaster wrote:
That conversation is totally null for geript eden. How does it make him town? Does geript argue like that as mafia? My impression is that when he gets angry and dug into his trenches like he has with Kurumi here, he's town, and that when he's mafia he tends to avoid tunneling much. I haven't seen his mafia play in a while (maybe ever?) but that's where that came from. (I also think mafia in general try to avoid this kind of argument.) Koshi I could see being mafia. Why not Snickers though? I liked what Koshi had to say about Snickers and I don't think Snickers has done anything to make me think otherwise. I feel that the whole conversation was kurumi saying, "Its like this", and geript saying, "No its not". Thats hardly tunneling. The reason I dont like Koshi's read on Snickers is that Koshi is doing the exact same thing and complaining about no content and asking people to produce content. You must have missed the part where geript says "No way you do this as town" then - I thought it was pretty clear that geript thinks Kurumi is mafia for this and is zeroed in on it. Seems tunnely to me because he's ignoring the possibility that you were the source of the leak. (Were you?) Second part is pretty true, but it doesn't change anything about Snickers himself. I think Koshi's done more than Snickers pretty easily. Koshi dropped some info about LS, he's been questioning Kurumi about his plan for the game, and he brought up Snickers himself. Snickers hasn't done anything beyond calling random things bullshit without offering any analysis or potential suspects or anything. On February 20 2015 13:58 Eden1892 wrote:On February 20 2015 13:45 LightningStrike wrote:
I didn't even post the pms though yet I just waiting for mod to answer my question on it. don't talk about pm'ing the mods about asking for a rule clarification, dummy god have mercy on this poor guy (unless he's mafia) I feel like Town!Eden would have stronger reads than this. I don't think that Town!Eden would start with saying "I could see Koshi being mafia" and then goes for all the green stuff about me. While he also pushes snickers based on everything I said. I don't see Town!Eden do that. Same thing with the LS read. I think this shows scum!Eden not knowing when he should have strong reads. This is a PM game ffs. Why is he having such weak reads? He just said LS was town after he read that entire conversation I had with LS. Now he doubts that read again? Is this town!Eden? I don't think so. ##vote: Eden not really seeing any contradictions tbh the first post was inconclusive about you b/c you hadn't done a lot (which is typically your scum behavior), but you brought up the snickers thing which I thought was good. snickers proceeded to not really try or do anything for several hours and your read made a lot more sense in light of that, so I came around to snickers mafia and you town. recently snickers has tried more so I've felt better about him, but your observation was still pretty good, so I think you're probably town, and I have better lynches like sicklucker and liancourt, so I'm not lynching you today and I'm not doubting my LS read, you're getting me wrong. I was joking about only modkilling someone who broke rules if they're mafia. could have been LS or SL or geript or anybody and I'd have said the same why don't you want to lynch sicklucker? if he's paying attention but clearly not active in the thread or side chats then he's probably mafia. sicklucker is much more active than this as town 1) It is not about contradictions. It is about the strenght of a read. I don't like how you start with calling me possible scum, and then type 5 different reasons why I am probably town. Especially after last game we played in which I was scum and you couldn't find 1 reason why I was town the entire game. 2) Again. It is about the strenght of your LS read. I would expect town!Eden to jokingly beg the mods to not modkill LS because he is obvious town. But you added the possibility that LS is scum instead. Because I feel like you should have LS as strong town. ok, i get it's about strength of a read. i still don't see where the issue is. i was uncertain on you in the post you highlighted where i said you were maybe mafia, b/c you hadn't done a lot, but you had done one thing i thought was good (snickers bit). the snickers thing felt more validated over time so i got okay with you being town. your comparison to horn of africa isn't valid because the scenarios are different; you might not agree with this assessment, but i felt you literally did nothing townie in HoA, so of course i found no reason to townread you. you were afk most of the time and didn't do anything to solve the game when you were around. pretty easy read. when i made that post, you were still sorta in afk/not-doing-much land, but you posted the snickers thing, which was townie. so i was uncertain, and then as the game progressed, the snickers thing turned out to be pretty valuable AND you did more (digging into kurumi, chatting with ls and the town circle on the side), so i thought you were town your second point is pretty plainly overreaching to me. i really don't know how to reply to it because i feel like it's self-evident that i wasn't actually doubting my read on ls. all i can do is insist i wasn't
I might be overreaching on that. But it is just another thing that just didn't go like I would expect. It can happen a couple times, but it seems like this game you never bleed town Eden.
Anyway, your defense is noted down. I am expecting you to do things though. If you believe that rayn/geript/Koshi and possible VE are a strong towncircle that works on skype/TS/irc you should not be too afraid to be shot. So please, show me something spectacular.
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er, correction, you dug into the kurumi thing before i said that you could be mafia. i remembered that wrong
lemme go over what i remember about your play this game and see if you get where i'm coming from.
i felt like your posting early was ehh. you had your good point about snickers that i discussed, but you didn't do a lot else. there was the kurumi thing which was good too though. i learned after that, around the time where snickers was starting to look better (posting in irc and pushing liancourt), that you were active in a town circle with geript and rayn and all them, and at that point i was pretty sure you were town, because i didn't think you could fool them if you were in a skype chat for hours like geript said
you're probably right that i was more paranoid/unsure than i should have been. i've been consciously trying to tone down the certainty with which i state my reads, because i think in horn of africa i burned a lot of credibility by being so sure all the time and changing my mind a lot. but i wasn't keeping options open about lynching you or trying to turn oats on you or anything
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ugh, bad timing, i'm going to bed and working a double tomorrow. idk how spectacular i can be
i still think you should lynch sicklucker. i'm not sure what it is about his list post that changed your mind, because to me it proved he's been following things but not that he's trying to solve the game (as evidenced by his lack of meaningful posts in the thread or oot communication), which i'd expect from mafia sicklucker. town sicklucker is all over the thread, digging into all kinds of leads, trying to turn up whatever he can. the leads don't even have to make sense, they just have to exist. they don't exist
if you won't lynch him, my next shot would be liancourt. this one's admittedly more of a crapshoot but it's based on 2 things:
- him also not doing anything substantial to solve the game in what activity i've seen from him
- an incident i saw in irc (no logs, gg, but snickers will confirm) where snickers was pushing him to give suspects or show anything indicating he was solving the game. liancourt just deflected pretty much everything and called snickers scum for omgusing
i'm not as confident here, because i've literally seen the second point happen to me when we were town together, but i think the two points in conjunction are good enough to lynch on.
after that there's onegu, who i prodded to play. i don't actually want to lynch him but we'll have to eventually since palmar doesn't modkill inactives.
there's a lot of people being townie though... i thought kurumi was town earlier, and i still do, but i'm looking to see how he deals with his geript push when he wakes up. i'll pm that thought process to you
after that shrug
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I really don't buy that scum can't fake an extended conversation on Skype and shit though. All it takes is the right perspective. At least for one conversation early in the game. Where it is easier to differentiate is if you talk again later after 1-2 lynches and see if the conversation is still the same.
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Kurimu did anyone access are qt? Even after lian accidentally leaked it?
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On February 20 2015 19:07 Oatsmaster wrote:
I really don't buy that scum can't fake an extended conversation on Skype and shit though. All it takes is the right perspective. At least for one conversation early in the game. Where it is easier to differentiate is if you talk again later after 1-2 lynches and see if the conversation is still the same.
i guess not? just from playing irl mafia it's hard to react in real time to questions. the buffer mafia get from non-instant forms of communication is enormous
...but i could just suck at irl mafiaside 
at the very least i'd say that a good place to look is the group of people who haven't been utilizing the oot communication much. you have to filter for irl-related inactivity or other complications, but i think scum prefer not to use pm's if they can
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I was like 5 minutes on TS with them btw. Had to play yearbeast doto.
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EPT
