[T] Jack of All Trades Mafia

On March 03 2015 10:12 Tubesock wrote:
I like FF, HtS, and Rsoultin. It's wise to not town me just for being able to count.

The rest I just need to see more. I don't really scum anyone at the moment. The only one I'm somewhat questioning is Slam and only because in some game awhile ago Koshi said that town slam makes no sense, while scum slam is coherent and slam is pretty coherent this game. But I liked his evolution of my idea. (his seemingly reluctant acceptance of it anyway).

On March 03 2015 13:26 geript wrote:

Holy shitpants of saying nothing. This guys is another good kill.

On March 03 2015 13:35 geript wrote:

Sure, you've talked about nothing of any sort of consequence in like the least meaningful way possible. Like there's nothing of any worth talking about there. We have ~18 hours until someone is going to get shot and you're worried about talking about something that nobody knows what the fuck it does. I will be happy to shoot you if this continues.

On March 03 2015 13:51 geript wrote:

Ok, so how do you know that it gives Town a chance to come back? How do you know that it doesn't just give mafia uber roles. From helping GreyMist with his upcoming game I have an idea of what it might be, but it's a semi-guess related to pregame. But I can assure you that it's either really, really bad if it's one of them or it's completely fucking random or it's really really bad.
Regarding the device you're a fucking idiot if you want to keep talking about this shit. Because you know where this big pile of unknown is going to end us up at? Because I do. It ends up at not talking about HtS and me not being able to read her town games because I'm either talking to a dumbass or mafia. It ends up not talking about how Koshi is essentially repeating 2 of his previous mafia games. It ends us up not talking about how Rayn isn't gaming the system or coming up with some weird plan, or him reading Slam the same way as last game at almost an earlier point than he did that game AND WHERE SLAM WAS MAFIA, or with him not really talking about how Koshi's bully system (lynch any misshot on D2 regardless) is awful. It ends up with us not talking about LS who Damdred finds interesting.

So basically it ends up with us not talking about actually important subjects. So motherfucker. What do you think about those actually important subjects which you have totally ignored? You seem to have skimmed along but don't even remember who was talking about what. Why? Why aren't you interested in who you're going to shoot or who you want to shot instead of this bullshit? How can you possibly think that I can even be mafia here? Are you like a complete noob or just terrible?

On March 03 2015 13:53 Damdred wrote:


Theres really not much of a bandwagon to press it at this point honestly, i'm not sure even how many of us have messaged the host. I haven't as of yet.

And geript is right though you are making a really wordy post without commenting on a lot of the other scum hunting that's going on in the thread

On March 03 2015 13:59 Damdred wrote:
....we aren't even interested in talking about t device, fuck the device we are scum hunting to figure out a shot.

I will yolo shoot you so please actually contribute now that you got that out of your system

On March 03 2015 15:07 geript wrote:

Ok so let's talk meta. Every single time I've been mafia I've been far more confrontational? What games ahve I been mafia in? Have I never as town pushed multiple lynch targets at the same time? Like your meta of me is really, really fucking off. Explain your shit or die. Becuase I'm not going to get fucking mislynched again because some fucking scrub from some fucking scrubass site comes into my house and tries to lynch me.

On March 03 2015 15:10 Breshke wrote:


1) He suggested we nominate someone to shoot so i don't think that he is trying to avoid us lynching a consensus

2) He then later stated that he ment he doesn't care if we shoot mafia or 3p

3)Isn't trying to debunk any plan useful as it can show any weakpoints it has? Yes it could be frustrating but yeah.

4) I dont think this is true. Yeah vets seem to listen to other vets more than newbies but with geript gunning for some of them (rayn for example) how do you think he can count on them to back him?



You say you are a newbie here yet you seem to think you know geripts meta fairly well which doesn't really add up.

Also I don't like that you promised to talk about the shot before damdred started going hard against you which led me to believe you had thoughts on people other than him yet what you have posted is mostly from after you said you would give thoughts which leads me to believe you had nothing at the time yet you got angry at geript for not waiting for you to post.

Im not sure if im making sense or not but if you could give reads on other people that would probably help.

On March 03 2015 15:15 geript wrote:
1)How in the fuck am I even trying to normalize the idea of someone shooting at 24 hours? It's not like that's a new idea or unique to me. I'm also not trying to "make it okay" for anyone to shoot, a point which you bring up but dismiss out of hand.
2)I never said we should hunt the 3P. I said I'd prefer to lynch 3P than mafia on D1. Like that's really fucking obvious. Second, anyone who believes that a mafia shot over a 3P shot is preferable is a fucking retard and doesn't know how games like this go. Hell Toad's argument is literally, "Well in one game mafia were retarded enough to spend 3 kp on me." Yet in more games assassins/ninja's/dueling3P roles tend to fuck up town far more than help. Plus, with instant 2 shot KP on 2 different people, we can have exceptionally dangerous lynch situations ala Demon's run where Kita's shots threw shit all out of whack.
3. That's not even the point of having a list of people who I'm ok with being the shooter. The whole point is to have a town controlled shot and hold anyone not on that list uber responsible for their shit. Getting into a universally townread circle while still having to explain the shot is significantly harder than any of this "let's pretend it's a lynch" bullshit that most people will just fucking ignore.
4) There's no fight here. I'm a big boy and you're still wearing pullups. If you're town, then maybe you'd be able to realize why I'm town. Probably not by how you're talking.

On March 03 2015 15:18 geript wrote:

Not me. Dude thinks he can walk in here and meta me all wrong. Like I don't think most of my scumgames even show up any more. Like he doesn't even take context of the thread into account at all. IDK man, dude walked in with a stick up his ass.

On March 03 2015 16:24 Tubesock wrote:


I think Geript is moving the thread forward and critically thinking. To me it's more towny to say my vote idea is stupid and point out holes in it. Wouldn't that freak you out if everyone just blindly said "great idea! Let's do it!!"? There is value in playing devils advocate. I do agree with you Epiphany that he is being a meanie face to you. Now, toughen up, he's an asshole, so what?

1) I took from his objection is that we vote for someone to do the shooting and it could happen well after the deadline to be able to shoot. There is value in extending the day past just 24 hours. He seems to believe the players here won't just yolo shoot someone. Personally, I think some town is going to yolo and shoot another town. Hence, my idea.

2) He explained that in a perfect world it is better to shoot 3P instead of mafia today. Which i think is true, you get rid of 2 non towns. Easier to PoE. He also said hunting 3P is the same as Mafia, so no real difference.

3) These are reads, and towns are supposed to give reads.

4) uhhhh he and like pretty much everyone else in the thread thinks that talking about the device is worthless at the moment.

On March 03 2015 17:04 Mocsta wrote:

Worst post in the game by far.

Doing a turbo read, and this thought certainly never entertained my thought process.

translation

On March 03 2015 17:10 Mocsta wrote:

Second worst post of the game.

I must have won the lottery

Of all posts to reply to, this fixation is odd?
Perhaps they know each other,
Slam is a scum buddy,
or <insert other>

(1) This is a nitpick statement (in line with this first post) that makes no attempt to harness information from Tubesock.
(2) AT.Epiphany makes no attempt to call TS town or scum (yet calls out TS for not venturing a self-justified read)
Classic contradiction.

translation

On March 03 2015 17:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:
AT.Epiphany instead of throwing in the newbie card how about you explain how this

is wrong instead?

because that's what you are arguing for without saying why Mocsta is wrong here.

On March 03 2015 17:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:
AT.Epiphany instead of throwing in the newbie card how about you explain how this

is wrong instead?

because that's what you are arguing for without saying why Mocsta is wrong here.

On March 03 2015 17:22 geript wrote:
Can Epiphany please tell me more about how I'm trying to steer conversation away from who needs to die? I Could use another good laugh.

I line your point on HtS. That's a really interesting read. Wrong. But interesting.

On March 03 2015 17:24 Mocsta wrote:

Lets talk some more.

It appears you are pouncing on the logic of others without considering your read on either player??

Tell me 2 tentative things:
(1) Read on koshi
(2) Read on Slam

I am not looking for concrete justification. A lean will do.

On March 03 2015 17:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:

No it's not.
All we need to talk about is who needs to die, the "how" is already decided.

On March 03 2015 17:37 Mocsta wrote:
i'm going to drop you for now

basis
(1) I don't find this conversation (or Geripts productive) Seems at the moment that this is more philosphical debates on how to play mafia vs. actaul mafia interference

(2) If you did find Slam + Koshi town. it would be natural to assume people attacking them are not.

(3) BH is in this game

Continuing the chat
I have to take a dump. But next on my list is Breche + Sepultura.
THoughts?

On March 03 2015 17:49 Mocsta wrote:
I like Sepulchre after a second read.

To the point. Sort of witty.

Even prompted me to read into OWS, of which I like the direction.
Fully agree with the assessment of:
Its the whole passive aggressive feel YET lack of implication in the post.

Like a chihuahua hiding behind a fence. barking through a megaphone.

On March 03 2015 18:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I am not sure i buy this explanation.
So your conclusion (yes, in the post where you originally posted your comment i talked about it WAS a conclusion of yours) is that he, as town, for some reason should scumread people who scumread his town reads. I have absolutely no idea how you end up on this conclusion because it is a narrative YOU invented for him and nothing in his play implicates he should think this way.

On March 03 2015 20:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:
For the record i wanna press the device to see what happens, now when if it's a bad thing it doesn't fucking kill us outright.
sandroba suggesting this:

is scummyscummyscum.....

The only correct way to do this is either figure out what pressing the device does NOW, or destroy it immediately.

On March 03 2015 20:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:

The reason is as far as the game is going on you are never "already lost".
In LYLO you do not want ANYTHING that could possibly give mafia KP or fuck up the lynch. You just want the townies to lynch mafia.

Therefore, as i said, the only correct plays regarding the device are:
1) figure out what it does now, and then decide what to do with it or if it's worth keeping around at all
2) ignore it, accept it doesn't need to be in the game and destroy it

Keeping it around and not doing anything with it isn't an option because at some point it might become a liability to the town.

On March 03 2015 20:42 Mocsta wrote:
I posted as I read the thread.
I genuinely thought his first two posts were scummy.
However, he has an influx of posts on the proceeding pages that:
A - Do not move the thread forward
B - Heavily argue his theory on how the game should be play (akin to yourself right now)

Clearly, someone could make a case on him saying he is posting useless content for the sake of it... however, i think he is a butthurt over-zealous individual, as opposed to someone maliciously posting in the thread to destroy town atmosphere/blend in. This makes him a low priority for my evaluation day 1.

Frankly, I am surprised you haven't question Epiphany regarding his town read of Koshi.

On March 03 2015 21:19 Koshi wrote:
No questions for Koshixxx?

On March 04 2015 00:33 Koshi wrote:
I will post absolutely nothing for the next 18 hours. Koshi will not make another post till this countdown is on 0:00




I made this decision after reading the posts made by 7-8 players in this game. Nothing I did was scummy this game, I just decided to not play for the first 2 hours of the game because I wanted to do other things during that time (00:00 till 02:00), slept for 10 hours and had to work after that. But for some fucking reason I am scumread by 7-8 people for this, while it doesn't make any sense in the world that I should be SHOT for this. Yes, you can put some suspicion on me, I guess that is fine. But to read the dumb certainty from people like sicklucker and rayn about my alignment just bores me and makes me mad + somewhat sad.

So I decided to do nothing till after I wake up tomorrow and maybe glance over the thread again.

Let it also be known the sentiment in this thread is pretty mafia favored, we got too many people wanting to shoot way too early. If I have to read more post from somebody like geript I actually might get cancer. The guy thinks he got reads while he just got proven wrong on every flip in an ongoing game I will not discuss further than these flips. It is just cancerous.

So I might get shot for deciding to not play this game hard in the first 24hours, so be it. This is not on me. This is on the townleaders in this thread using this lynchsystem extremely bad and thinking they are better than they actually are. Because don't be fooled. There is no case on me except meta. And the meta used on me is actually not that good, it's extremely lazy form of meta based on me not playing for 2 hours before going to bed.
Quite obviously I am still not playing, even after being awake for 4 more hours, even though I posted some things, and I just declared another +17 hours of not posting. So I guess now you could make some sort of meta read. Maybe. But tbh as mafia I am more around than this. But maybe not. I am not sure how my mafia game looks like.


I would say that we should shoot somewhere in 48 hours. That would be optimal. But I don't think that will happen because some dumbasses are putting the idea in the thread we should shoot really fast because otherwise mafia will use the shot (which is not the worst play in this atmoshphere because you might get away with it, because nobody is saying that shooting is claiming scum, or trying to make sure town doesn't shoot. And on top of that the game looks shitty balanced and getting a ml already is pretty awesome, especially if tomorrow it is cell (and then the shooter isn't in the cell) and the day after that it is mayor and mafia is able to get a scum mayor because there are no townies left anyway. GG.

Anyway. Do w.e the fuck you want. I am sitting this one out on the sidelines. I will post some smart stuff in 17 hours. If I get the chance. And I feel like. Because if somebody else is shot and it is a town I might just not give 2 fucks at all. Unless I then see mafia not nk anybody. And the ninjas hitting scum. Or something like that. My expectation for this game are low. I can already not wait to see how fast town spirit will gain points and how expensive the blue roles are against the mafia counterpart.

On March 04 2015 00:43 kitaman27 wrote:


Upon reading the thread, this was the first thing that I noticed. Typically town will benefit from roles more than mafia. I have no evidence that it would benefit us to maximize the length of day one, but if I had to guess I would probably say that the more points the spirit gains before the night cycle the better. The challenge would be how do we get this to happen? I'd be in favor of some sort of policy where we all agree not to shoot until an hour before the actual deadline, but for this to work everyone would need to be on board and willing to go after anyone who breaks the policy. Being realistic, there is always going to be one townie who decides to yolo the shot immediately, but I'll put the idea out there anyways. Despite this, I am also playing with the idea of taking the selfish role and insta-shooting like sandroba suggests just to have the control if I feel somewhat confident.

I like Tube's suggestion about the shot vote count, though that doesn't say much about tube the player. The biggest problem with this format is that if town makes it clear that player X is getting shot, player X simply shoots first, but that's not a problem if we just follow it for the first 22 hours.

To get the rest of the policy out of the way, I'll be guarding the button unless I have a reason to choose one of the other options. From a setup perspective, I'd put the button in the "manipulative" category where a certain player or faction has to convince others to blindly perform an action, which tends to get ugly.

Ninja's should be shooting early and often. From my experience, a ninja very rarely locates another ninja through analysis. It's mostly winning by staying alive longer. By shooting early, you maximize your chance to eliminate the other ninja's vest an open them up to a night kill. Furthermore, if you happen to hit a player with your first shot and they live, odds are you've probably won right there. Dying with two shots in hand is pretty worthless. The reason I'm saying this is that shooting early also benefits town because the mafia kp can be reduced by reducing their numbers and flipping the first mafia always snowballs the game. Ninja isn't an anti-town 3p like serial killer so we can both benefit in setups like these by working together.

Epiphany had the weak intro post feeling obligated to explain why he wasn't posting. He mentions that he is a newbie several times, even before the Mocsta post, yet then starts talking about geript saying that:

"Every single time he's been Mafia he's far more aggressive and confrontational than he is as Town. Moreover his mafia games have him rapidly suggesting lynch targets and putting out scumpiles pretty quickly. As a mafia (and not as a Town) he invariably pushes multiple targets and acts aggressively."

I could be wrong, but this would imply that he probably isn't a newbie. I don't have a problem with smurfs, but the likely deception seems scummy. Also, he needs to be less angry



This one I found a bit odd. It's fine to joke with him about being shot, but then following up with another question as if he is actually trying to trap him here either means he is attempting to look like he is scum hunting or is feeling really, really optimistic.



Heh so you thought a host was able to modify the appearance of the TeamLiquid forums for his mafia game? Right....

Koshi's idea to policy a day one shot is decent in theory to deter a poor shot, but it probably won't go anywhere.

Toads suggestion that he doesn't want to be too townish is pretty silly. You can't justify that with a straight face.

Damdred seems scummy enough to warrant keeping an eye on. Can't point to anything in specific though.

I didn't really see Obi as the clear suspect upon my first read through like Sepulchre suggests. Sepulchre comes off as a reasonable individual though.

Hopefully I'll have a better idea for a few shot targets before the 24 hour mark.

On March 04 2015 00:56 kitaman27 wrote:


Were you familiar with geript's mafia play prior to the game starting or is that something that you took the time to research once it began? If it is the latter, was there something that geript posted that triggered you to do some research or was he someone you just picked out and happened to find evidence when reading his past games that led you to your conclusion?

On March 04 2015 03:33 IAmRobik wrote:

I'm probably cool with this.

On March 04 2015 03:44 rsoultin wrote:
Seriously, epiphany just said:

I don't want to shoot koshi for...no reason
YM works cause sheeping rayn
long useless rant on why whoever is shooting should have good reasons for shooting who they are going to shoot
then peaces out

meeeeeeh post and if koshi is town lynch this guy

On March 05 2015 04:16 kitaman27 wrote:


Same post later on:



How can you say it's not town-town if you are NULL on Breshke? Your first sentence suggests that if Mocsta is town, Breshke is mafia, but your second suggests you don't have a read on Breshke.

Could you elaborate here?

On March 05 2015 04:23 kitaman27 wrote:


Why?

On March 05 2015 04:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:

How does the bolded part make sense?
Given the underlined if they are town-mafia, wouldn't the townie act like he would vs another town aswell -> still consider the other one as being on the same side at some point?

On March 05 2015 04:44 kitaman27 wrote:


But what you're saying is:

1 of Mocsta or Breshke is mafia because they don't give pause.
Therefore, 1 of Mocsta or Breshke is town.
Hence, 1 of Mocsta or Breshke is town, yet they don't give pause.

It's not making sense to me.

On March 05 2015 04:48 kitaman27 wrote:


But why cant Mocsta be a townie who thanks Breshke is mafia and is framing him and Breshke be a townie who thanks Mocsta is mafia and is framing him?

Still don't see why it's one or the other.

On March 05 2015 06:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Scumread on AT.Epiphany.
Half of the stuff he did on D1 was pushing geript. Then he said (on N1) he hasn't dropped his thoughts on geript but doesn't comment my -- geripts argument with anything.

On March 05 2015 18:17 Tubesock wrote:



What do you mean? I've been really wishywashy on SL. The only thing I said about him that is scummy is he's not pissing me off which scares me. Now I think he's not mafia because I refuse to believe there are two mafia in this cell. Sandroba is the only one.

On March 05 2015 18:27 Tubesock wrote:


OP says it's possible. But that would mean there is a 50% chance of landing on mafia and that's fucked up.

On March 05 2015 18:43 Oatsmaster wrote:

Who gives a shit? We can only lynch one person today.
Which two are the scum then?

On March 05 2015 19:08 Mocsta wrote:
Its not obvious to me.

Posts like this are noise. It convinces no one to tip their vote your way; and provides no one with an understanding of your point of view.