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On March 03 2015 09:36 sandroba wrote:
well if somehow everyone gets behind it I see no problem turning this into a normal lynch. This will require extreme self-control by a town player who is about to get shot, however, because if you manage to shoot before someone shoots you, you will waste 2 of town lynches instead of one.
I really like this post.
Quick reading the thread, this thought did not register to me.
Indicates Sandroba was critically evaluating the thread to provide constructive criticism.
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Except that the post is really bad because that is something that is never gonna happen and everyone knows it.
Hopefully someone shoots koshi before sandroba shoots a townie.
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On March 03 2015 10:28 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 10:07 Toadesstern wrote:On March 03 2015 10:03 geript wrote:On March 03 2015 09:59 Fecalfeast wrote:On March 03 2015 09:56 geript wrote:
It's kinda funny but I think we should try to kill the 3P on D1. That is kinda funny. Are you saying this because they add more volatility to the game and could cause a swing? If we shoot the ninja, they absorb the shot and the other ninja kills them removing them from the game.. Meeehhh I'd rather hit scum No. It's not the volatility. I'm assuming 3P won't die because of vest. That means we get to remove at least 3 KP from the game off the bat in addition to removing 2 people who don't really give a fuck about who they lynch. I've been ninja before. They tend to be pro town as surving lynches, when the only way to die is getting lynched gives you a boost to win the game because you can just outlast your opponent and win that way even if you don't figure it out. I also took 3 mafia bullets on n1 and n2 as a third party ninja by nature of being that townie. Trying to lynch third party is MASSIVELY anti-town. They're not using their shots to randomely shoot into town and unless we waste a townshot on one of them like today there's no downside to having them alive and let mafia shoot into them. The last game I saw this was with VE and BH I think. Where VE got lynched after a missed shot I think. Like them potentially soaking up KP is possible but unlikely until D3-4 unless one of a handful of people get it. There's also the aspect that if they're a good/decent player, they can suck up roles/powers given by the spirits. Like if they get medic or vet it's pretty useless. Tracker would be useless too. Louie them remaining in the game leaves more room for mafia to hide in and has far more potential to fuck up town than help town. Assuming all 4 shots go off, odds are they only hit 1 mafia. Maybe 2 if we're really lucky. Imagine if like batsnacks, Slam, Mocsta or LS got the role though. Like shit would hit the fan real fast. Like that's the really important thing. Is it they're ever about to be lynched then they 100% will fire indescriminantly and likely hit town. This isn't even considering them presumptively killing people to get them off their back. The roles are super wifomy. Like I remember Kita shooting someone as 3P 10 minutes before a lynch to try and get multiple people killed and they could manipulate things that way too. Like they're really really bad for us unless they never shoot or only shoot perfectly. two things we can't count on. Quite insulted I am being referenced in this group of players 
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Well geript calls everyone bad when it suits him.
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On March 03 2015 16:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Except that the post is really bad because that is something that is never gonna happen and everyone knows it.
Hopefully someone shoots koshi before sandroba shoots a townie.
I disagree. Plenty of town players would attempt to "counter-shoot' shoot out of spite.
Pointless aside, lets not continue this specific line of discussion
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Rayn
Has your position on HtS altererd?
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On March 03 2015 13:12 AT.Epiphany wrote:
Hi guys,
I am sorry I'm late, but the game starts at 4:30 am in my time-zone. I'm not inclined to be an early riser and in any case for professional reasons that isn't an option. My work requires me to be rested during the day.
So first off, before I post anything more substantive, I have a comment about the device.
I see a very rapid bandwagon towards pressing it, which I don't really understand very well. The device is unknown and we have no idea what it's impact on the game will be, or whom it will favour. Most of the 'reasoning' I've seen for pressing it can be summarized as 'YOLO' or 'don't be pansy' and similar emotive appeals rather than any concrete reason. One sensible voice pointed out we should guard it until we are behind or doing badly and then press, but he didn't seem to be too invested in the whole issue and didn't pursue it much. He's dead right though; the device randomizes the game, and because town is majority, that itself makes it town favoured. The way we extract an advantage from the device is to gain the ability to randomize the game when it's going badly, not by just saying 'YOLO' and pressing a button, and I'm mildly suspicious of those who started this "PRESS" bandwagon. I really can't overstate the importance of this, and I really want a discussion of this issue and/or responses to it. I'm not attempting to deflect discussion away from the shot, and I'll comment on that in a bit, but this is an important issue and that's why I've dedicated a separate post to it. There is literally no reason not to vote GUARD on the device and I want those who are currently voting PRESS to explain their logic if any.
Worst post in the game by far.
Doing a turbo read, and this thought certainly never entertained my thought process.
translation
innocent scum (AT.Epiphany): Hey guys, i dunno what to post scum leader (XXXX): just bullshit man. start of the game people just looking for good vibes and confidence. innocent scum (AT.Epiphany): OK "XXXX" let me post about this useless button pressing that has zero relevance this early. innocent scum (xxxx): and MAKE sure you don't call out anyone sepcific for pressing dat button. Blending in is the key to winning.
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On March 03 2015 16:24 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 14:56 AT.Epiphany wrote:
So here's my scumread on Geript:
Every single time he's been Mafia he's far more aggressive and confrontational than he is as Town. Moreover his mafia games have him rapidly suggesting lynch targets and putting out scumpiles pretty quickly. As a mafia (and not as a Town) he invariably pushes multiple targets and acts aggressively. Here as well, he started pushing Koshi and the moment I made my post, his first reaction (even though I said I'm posting on shots as a follow-up) was to scumread me because my post was filler.
It isn't filler, the first person to post after me recognized as such, and geript has gambled on being aggressive and unpleasant thinking that people will agree with him because I am new to this forum. Look at his main contribution in the thread.
1) He's tried to normalize the idea that there's no point in trying to reach a consensus on a shot because somebody will shoot anyway. What he's really trying to push though, is the idea that it's normal and ok for everyone to take a shot at 24 hrs and the reason he's doing this is because he doesn't want anybody to gain any information from the shot, which is why he's trying to press the line that there's no point reaching a consensus and then lynching anyone who breaks the consensus.
2) He's then tried to press the nonsensical idea of trying to hunt/lynch the 3P although that makes very little sense for reasons that have already been pointed out.
3) He tries to establish credibility by saying "these are the people I'm ok taking a shot". That doesn't prove anything though, especially since at this point he's done nothing useful except to try and debunk our most useful way of gaining information, which is to try and shoot the guy with the most votes.
4) He's been the one to try and turn the thread into a fight by abusing me (a fight he calculated he'll win because no one here knows me).
I think Geript is moving the thread forward and critically thinking. To me it's more towny to say my vote idea is stupid and point out holes in it. Wouldn't that freak you out if everyone just blindly said "great idea! Let's do it!!"? There is value in playing devils advocate. I do agree with you Epiphany that he is being a meanie face to you. Now, toughen up, he's an asshole, so what? 1) I took from his objection is that we vote for someone to do the shooting and it could happen well after the deadline to be able to shoot. There is value in extending the day past just 24 hours. He seems to believe the players here won't just yolo shoot someone. Personally, I think some town is going to yolo and shoot another town. Hence, my idea. 2) He explained that in a perfect world it is better to shoot 3P instead of mafia today. Which i think is true, you get rid of 2 non towns. Easier to PoE. He also said hunting 3P is the same as Mafia, so no real difference. 3) These are reads, and towns are supposed to give reads. 4) uhhhh he and like pretty much everyone else in the thread thinks that talking about the device is worthless at the moment.
Geript's actually argued that someone will surely shoot no matter what. I agree with you that somebody is going to shoot, no matter what. The thing Geript has opposed though is the idea of the town taking control of the shot and lynching the shooter if he misses.
What I think is ideal is: Town decides who to shoot. If anyone shoots someone else, shoot them. This was the original suggestion.
What Geript suggests is a combination of two things.
1) Geript shoots because he has "amazing townreads" according to himself (which is obviously not helpful if he is Mafia)
2) We nominate somebody to take a shot.
Here's why the suggestion original suggestion is better than Geript's suggestions:
Under Geript's model an individual gets to make a choice, with no accountability for this. This means that if the individual selected is innocent, that's no better or worse than the town taking a call on whom to shoot unless the individual is neccesarily better informed. If the individual selected is mafia, they basically get a confirmed free kill. An individual making a free call is strictly worse here.
Note however, that the original model works well only if the two reaches a consensus on whom to shoot, and that players breaking the arrangement will be lynched. Geript argued that a town will disregard that and/or a mafia would shoot and WIFOM. The critical part is that Geript's reasoning is driving the thread towards a point where there won't be any consensus and then anybody can take a shot (which Mafia will) and not get lynched for shooting Town.
Another crucial point, Geript's reasoning was that if a town is about to be shot under a consensus agreement, he will shoot someone else reasoning that it's better because he knows 100% he's innocent (FecalFeast also endorsed this). If you look a bit deeper though, if we have a 'lynch the shooter' policy, a Townie about to be shot should let himself be shot, because he's risking 3 Town deaths instead of one by randomly shooting into the crowd. That's not something a townie would do.
We need to agree on the plan itself and not just on whom to shoot and Geript is forcing consensus away from this plan. The Mafia are favoured by any situation where there is no consensus on who is going to be shot and how that will be done. This is why he is trying to channel discussion away from this.
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Mocsta in fact yes, i liked her post on Slam.
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On March 03 2015 17:04 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 13:12 AT.Epiphany wrote:
Hi guys,
I am sorry I'm late, but the game starts at 4:30 am in my time-zone. I'm not inclined to be an early riser and in any case for professional reasons that isn't an option. My work requires me to be rested during the day.
So first off, before I post anything more substantive, I have a comment about the device.
I see a very rapid bandwagon towards pressing it, which I don't really understand very well. The device is unknown and we have no idea what it's impact on the game will be, or whom it will favour. Most of the 'reasoning' I've seen for pressing it can be summarized as 'YOLO' or 'don't be pansy' and similar emotive appeals rather than any concrete reason. One sensible voice pointed out we should guard it until we are behind or doing badly and then press, but he didn't seem to be too invested in the whole issue and didn't pursue it much. He's dead right though; the device randomizes the game, and because town is majority, that itself makes it town favoured. The way we extract an advantage from the device is to gain the ability to randomize the game when it's going badly, not by just saying 'YOLO' and pressing a button, and I'm mildly suspicious of those who started this "PRESS" bandwagon. I really can't overstate the importance of this, and I really want a discussion of this issue and/or responses to it. I'm not attempting to deflect discussion away from the shot, and I'll comment on that in a bit, but this is an important issue and that's why I've dedicated a separate post to it. There is literally no reason not to vote GUARD on the device and I want those who are currently voting PRESS to explain their logic if any. Worst post in the game by far. Doing a turbo read, and this thought certainly never entertained my thought process. translationShow nested quote +scum leader (XXXX): just bullshit man. start of the game people just looking for good vibes and confidence. Show nested quote +innocent scum (AT.Epiphany): OK "XXXX" let me post about this useless button pressing that has zero relevance this early. Show nested quote +innocent scum (xxxx): and MAKE sure you don't call out anyone sepcific for pressing dat button. Blending in is the key to winning.
You do realize I DID start calling out people, and what I did was the literal opposite of blending in?
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I spoke to GM about lightning strike, He has accidentally been Nuked but it should be sorted within 24 hours. Please do not comment on replacements/modkills in the thread and if you need to ask one of the hosts something try and PM us instead of posting in the thread. Thanks.
DP
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On March 03 2015 13:26 AT.Epiphany wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 10:12 Tubesock wrote:
I like FF, HtS, and Rsoultin. It's wise to not town me just for being able to count.
The rest I just need to see more. I don't really scum anyone at the moment. The only one I'm somewhat questioning is Slam and only because in some game awhile ago Koshi said that town slam makes no sense, while scum slam is coherent and slam is pretty coherent this game. But I liked his evolution of my idea. (his seemingly reluctant acceptance of it anyway).
So your reasoning is that he sounds coherent and therefore he is scum because someone else said he's incoherent when he's town? If he's capable of being coherent, I can't see why he wouldn't be coherent when he's town. I'm also unsure why you aren't venturing any opinion or read of your own, but relying on some comment someone made on some other occasion?
Second worst post of the game.
I must have won the lottery
Of all posts to reply to, this fixation is odd?
Perhaps they know each other,
Slam is a scum buddy,
or <insert other>
(1) This is a nitpick statement (in line with this first post) that makes no attempt to harness information from Tubesock.
(2) AT.Epiphany makes no attempt to call TS town or scum (yet calls out TS for not venturing a self-justified read)
Classic contradiction.
translation
innocent scum (AT.Epiphany): OK guys. I did it!!! I finally did it. My first mafia post scum leader (XXXX): well done. keep it up and you will have blended in no time. innocent scum (AT.Epiphany): OK "XXXX" ohohohoh i found a sucker picking on easy biat like Slam !!!!. innocent scum (xxxx): go for it son. innocent scum (AT.Epiphany): I'm so clever. I made a useless post with no intent to help the thread. I'm so clever!!
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On March 03 2015 17:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Mocsta in fact yes, i liked her post on Slam.
That will be all for now.
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On March 03 2015 17:10 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 13:26 AT.Epiphany wrote:On March 03 2015 10:12 Tubesock wrote:
I like FF, HtS, and Rsoultin. It's wise to not town me just for being able to count.
The rest I just need to see more. I don't really scum anyone at the moment. The only one I'm somewhat questioning is Slam and only because in some game awhile ago Koshi said that town slam makes no sense, while scum slam is coherent and slam is pretty coherent this game. But I liked his evolution of my idea. (his seemingly reluctant acceptance of it anyway).
So your reasoning is that he sounds coherent and therefore he is scum because someone else said he's incoherent when he's town? If he's capable of being coherent, I can't see why he wouldn't be coherent when he's town. I'm also unsure why you aren't venturing any opinion or read of your own, but relying on some comment someone made on some other occasion? Second worst post of the game. I must have won the lotteryOf all posts to reply to, this fixation is odd? Perhaps they know each other, Slam is a scum buddy, or <insert other> (1) This is a nitpick statement (in line with this first post) that makes no attempt to harness information from Tubesock. (2) AT.Epiphany makes no attempt to call TS town or scum (yet calls out TS for not venturing a self-justified read) Classic contradiction. translationShow nested quote +innocent scum (AT.Epiphany): OK guys. I did it!!! I finally did it. My first mafia post Show nested quote +scum leader (XXXX): well done. keep it up and you will have blended in no time. Show nested quote +innocent scum (AT.Epiphany): OK "XXXX" ohohohoh i found a sucker picking on easy biat like Slam !!!!. Show nested quote +innocent scum (AT.Epiphany): I'm so clever. I made a useless post with no intent to help the thread. I'm so clever!!
If you're actually town, you're not only an asshole, but you're an idiot, because you're spectacularly wrong. GJ jumping on a bash the newbie wagon if you're scum.
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AT.Epiphany instead of throwing in the newbie card how about you explain how this
(1) This is a nitpick statement (in line with this first post) that makes no attempt to harness information from Tubesock.
(2) AT.Epiphany makes no attempt to call TS town or scum (yet calls out TS for not venturing a self-justified read)
is wrong instead?
because that's what you are arguing for without saying why Mocsta is wrong here.
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Hey townie spirit!
Always veto shootout please.
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On March 03 2015 17:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:AT.Epiphany instead of throwing in the newbie card how about you explain how this Show nested quote +(1) This is a nitpick statement (in line with this first post) that makes no attempt to harness information from Tubesock.
(2) AT.Epiphany makes no attempt to call TS town or scum (yet calls out TS for not venturing a self-justified read) is wrong instead? because that's what you are arguing for without saying why Mocsta is wrong here.
First off, I'm not throwing the newbie card, literally Mocsta's entire post is about making fun of me being a newbie in his faux 'translation', so stop faking that accusation.
Secondly, I'm not sure if he's scum or not, (which is why I didn't accuse him) but it does seem strange to me argue that Slam is scum because he is coherent. If he's capable of being coherent, there's no reason why he wouldn't be so as town and moreover what I objected to was that the only reasoning tubesock provided was "kochi said so this some other game" which is a very strange reason.
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On March 03 2015 17:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:AT.Epiphany instead of throwing in the newbie card how about you explain how this Show nested quote +(1) This is a nitpick statement (in line with this first post) that makes no attempt to harness information from Tubesock.
(2) AT.Epiphany makes no attempt to call TS town or scum (yet calls out TS for not venturing a self-justified read) is wrong instead? because that's what you are arguing for without saying why Mocsta is wrong here.
Also, really, you try playing properly when every post about you is a moronic personal attack by people jumping on a bandwagon....
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Can Epiphany please tell me more about how I'm trying to steer conversation away from who needs to die? I Could use another good laugh.
I line your point on HtS. That's a really interesting read. Wrong. But interesting.
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Well it is a really accurate way of reading Slam.
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EPT
