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Newbie Mini Mafia LXI - Page 4

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 17 2015 20:09 GMT
#722
reviewed Shining's filter, the last person I got no read on; based on my reread, I'm feeling Shining to be townish; his posts (while few in number) have lots of analysis, very little parroting, very little just seeking info from others without providing. So a slight town read on Shining (+1 point)
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 18 2015 10:44 GMT
#808
On February 18 2015 09:02 Trfel wrote:
Well, I'm still alive. That's interesting. I wonder if that means I'm completely off track. Or if it means that someone on the mafia team is cruel and wants to torture me.

Rsoultin, I'll take a look at your filter and your reads. I still think that we are mostly in the same place, though.

completely off track about what?

Note: I'm responding to some things as I read the thread to get up to date, so if something was already answered, responses will not be needed.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 18 2015 12:08 GMT
#812
While reading NKs is hard, to me it's most likely to be the simplest reason: he was nigh-confirmed town (pretty much everyone, if not everyone, thought so).
Killing a confirmed town is just plain good for scum in general, since it makes the lynch pool harder.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 18 2015 14:06 GMT
#819
On February 18 2015 02:05 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 18 2015 01:59 rsoultin wrote:
On February 18 2015 01:55 zlefin wrote:
On February 18 2015 01:18 rsoultin wrote:
Actually, lol, our case-maker just found your reasons in your filter, Zlefin, but if you do want to play the game anyway, just let me know ^^

Nah, Truffle, it was only his later play that was bugging me, anyway. His point system reminds me of my brother's lol.

Speaking of paranoia...JJB isn't getting scumread this game. Seems like a dumb reason to find him scummy, but usually everyone is like JJB, scummiest of scum! Am I nuts?

pass on the game, I don't think it will help me clear up my thoughts at all.
I want to use my time to review the two people I still have no reads either way on (shining and elyas) to see if I can figure something out on them.

As to JJB, I've had him at mild scumread if that makes you feel any better. Which, by your description of him, would be his usual state. It'll take some time for me to figure out how to compensate for how naturally scummy certain people sound, since I don't have a background on them.


Believe it or not, that actually does make me feel better ^^

Eh, I don't know how to explain JJB other than he's a bit of a happy clown, but the biggest points in his favor at EoD were how he kept the discussion open. I know he was pushing you, but from a mafia perspective, if you know the leading wagon is town you either just sit there and let others push it so you don't look bad when he flips town, or you say "this is a bad lynch" but do nothing to stop it. JJB doesn't really fall in either category.

Do others concur with rsoultin's description of JJB?
I ask because I don't want to base any changes entirely off this in the unlikely event the two of them are mafia.
If others concur with the description, I'm going to give a positive point to JJB, based on rsoultins comments in the last page, which also help reassess JJBs early game (in particular his joke which I didn't like, more info on its normalcy for him ameliorates it).

since rsoul flipped town, I'm gonna go ahead and give JJB his +1 town point for this. I think there was some discussion from others sorta confirming it, but I wasn't entirely sure about the confirmation, and I recently remembered I never scored/addressed it further; but now that I know rsoul is town, I'm fine with giving JJB the point.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 18 2015 16:47 GMT
#832
Tere's long set of texts looks fairly towny. It feels like a strong attempt to make people believe she's town. And it does read towny, lots of info, good analysis, appropriate level of outrage at prospect of being lynched.

My one concern is that it kinda feels like trying to get the benefit of blueclaiming without actually blueclaiming.

Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 18 2015 18:24 GMT
#837
We need more action, the current activity level seems too low. I just wish I was in a position to do more, but I got some work to do today.

While Elyas did post some above, it still seems to be low value/content, mostly just repeating what happened rather than analyzing it. That, combined with the prior history of seriously low content posting from Elyas, makes me feel Elyas is one of the scum, there's just too little scumhunting.

So I'm voting Elyas.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 18 2015 20:06 GMT
#842
I believe that's a good analysis, and would like to hear Silver's rebuttal. Also, if you think it's silver, any idea on who they're working with?
I'm starting to try to think on pairwise analysis to see who looks too in sync.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 18 2015 20:08 GMT
#843
Also, I think we could use some more pressure for activity, though I understand being busy.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 18 2015 21:19 GMT
#853
I don't know why, but reading your last two posts Tere, makes me feel a bit more suspicious rather than less.
Hopefully you're number of posts doesn't change as I'm typing this.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 18 2015 21:26 GMT
#854
You may hate unflipped association analysis Trfel, I'd say it's weak, but not utterly useless.
Mostly I'd expect associations to be unclear, but the fewer people there are left in the pool, the more it becomes possible to maybe say something.
Even if I could just say a certain pair of people aren't both mafia, that'd still be useful.

It also represents another way of looking at things; and looking at things from a different angle can be helpful, as long as you don't read too much into it.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 18 2015 22:03 GMT
#867
I've for the most part (aside from the couple posts mentioned a short while ago) liked Tere's responses of late, so I'm giving her a town point;

here's where my point totals are now:
Trfel 0/2
Shining 1/1
rsoultin 1/1 dead town N1
elyas -1/1
jarjar -1/3
tere -1/3
hier 0/2 dead town D1
silver -1/1

as a reminder, not all points area created equal, it simply means I at one time or another had a feel one way or another. Some feels are stronger than others, and I haven't yet figured out a system for letting points decay over time, or if I even should have points decay over time.

I'm going to put this in another format:

Townish: Shining
Neutral: Trfel, Jarjar, tere
Scummish: elyas, silver


Question for everyone: In terms of the above 3 categories (townish, neutral, or scummish) how would you classify each other remaining player?
If you could format it similarly to above, so it's easier to read and compare them, please do so.

Jarjar, you seem to like data and tables, would having that data from each player be helpful to you, given that they're merely statements and not votes?
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 19 2015 00:22 GMT
#924
On February 19 2015 09:10 Trfel wrote:
I'm glad to see that there were several pages while I was gone. I'm still reading, but I wanted to drop in and say this.

Tere, do you mind if I don't respond to your post? My impression of what you are asking me to do is exactly what I am attempting to do. I feel like I am having a hard time communicating my true intent with you (probably my fault, not yours), so I'm not sure that responding would help anything. Though if you do want me to respond, of course I can do so, I'm just not sure that it would help with anything.

Oh, and zlefin, I hope you won't mind if I don't list my reads like that, just because I don't like quantifying or categorizing my reads. But as of Page 44, Silverarte seems to be the best lynch.

I moderately mind, it's not THAT hard to do, and it helps me get a clearer sense of where everybody is, and a good reference point to look back at.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 19 2015 10:44 GMT
#1080
On February 19 2015 09:49 Trfel wrote:
A response to Tere (because zlefin asked for it, shrug)
Note that I do not require a response if you do not choose to provide one. It is spoilered because I don't see it as being very important.

+ Show Spoiler +
This post makes a lot of sense. I understand more at what you were getting at in your Walls of Text.

Not directed towards me, but this is really nice to see.

Now, this post. I hate adding responses inside quotes, so bear with me (if anyone is actually reading this).

As to me being patronizing to Tere ("good girl, well done"), this is not intended in the slightest. Whether she is scum or town, I'm pretty sure that Tere is the most skilled player left in this game, and I have no right whatsoever to be condescending to her. My only intention was to acknowledge the effort and thank her for it, and say that I felt that it made rather good evidence for her being town.

As for me judging my own play, I was not looking for sympathy, and my intention was not to talk about myself. I was saying that you townread me for something, and I didn't like your reasoning, while allowing for the possibility of an accurate tone read (because I am terrible at tone reads).

I have already accepted that Tere and I think differently and work differently. I don't think that is a problem. As for simplifying your reads, you are right that that part of my post was horrid. I have no explanation.

As for me not being confident in my tone read of Tere, I'm bad at tone reads, of course I'm not confident in it (that won't stop me from trying to use tone reads, though...).

I guess it makes sense that you don't want to lead a wagon. I disagree, and think that you are good enough at this game that I think you ought to lead a wagon, but I understand what you are saying and I accept it.

And no, I'm not scum. I am not 100% sure of your alignment, but I think you are town.

Show nested quote +
On February 19 2015 09:45 The Shining wrote:
Lmao the Circe thing made me lol. Tere, I guess I should've outright stated it but I didn't take any offense.

Can I also point out I'm somewhat reminded of how RSo and Geript went at it in Student Mafia V? Scum really likes hanging back when these kinds of interactions happen. I want everyone's reactions, please.
Tagging this at the bottom because I'm not sure it deserves its own post. You already have my reaction, to me it seems like a town vs town argument.

This isn't what I asked for, I asked for a response to my request for a list in standard format, of where you view each player

Towny
Neutral
Scummy
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 19 2015 11:36 GMT
#1081
Other people who have also yet to provide such a post in response to my request:
shining, jarjar, tere.

apologies if you did post but I somehow didn't notice it. I just went back through all the posts looking specifically for those, but it's always possible to miss things.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 19 2015 13:46 GMT
#1085
what a wide distribution of vote targets. It does not speak well of our chances I think.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 19 2015 17:36 GMT
#1088
Well, the time to push is rather thin, given the varying sleeping schedules, and only 6 hours to go.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 19 2015 18:53 GMT
#1112
trfel and jarjar, I'd still really like those lists from you two, especially trfel who I know has been around and seen it.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 19 2015 19:00 GMT
#1116
thank you for that.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 19 2015 19:34 GMT
#1129
On February 20 2015 01:39 ElyAs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2015 17:05 Tere wrote:
Morning.

I drank too much last night, have an unhappy stomach and am fuzzy headed, but right now I kinda think I wanna do something which will probably bug the crap out of everybody.

I kinda think I wanna ##vote Trfel.

It's like this. There's a post in my filter where I respond to him and say he's like this weirdly negging boyfriend that's not giving me a lady boner. I just can't shake it, I really can't. It's really bothering me.

I need everyone else to go look at Trfel's filter and see what they think. I might just be falling down the rabbit hole, but if so
I need to step away from the edge.

I need to take the car in for servicing and will be at least 8 or 9 hours. I won't be able to post but I will try and grab a coffee and do a full read and reset.


Wow, that's what I call a scud. I think something's starting to make sense.

I'm changing my way of reading this game. Something felt off but I can narrow it down to 3 people as possible lynch for tonight imo.


Making some notes as I filter-dive looking to reassess things.
This is the post where Elyas changes (or starts to change) her view of trfel from a bit of a townread to scum.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 19 2015 19:35 GMT
#1130
On February 20 2015 04:01 ElyAs wrote:
Ok I'm gonna commit, I volontarily omitted the punchline to my scenarii post.

I'm Wendy Testaburger, town Doctor !

Which is why I can say with such confidence that the role distribution is either :
1 Godfather, 1 Goon, 1 Doc, 1 Vigilante, 5 Vanilla Town or
1 Roleblocker, 1 Goon, 1 Doc, 6 Vanilla Town

My point is, Tere has been breadcrumbing blue, but most importantly, she has been breadcrumbing Vigi adding to my strong townread.
Proof :
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=44#874

"The two people I would shoot right now are The Shining and Silverarte."
Why is she saying this while nobody has asked her who'd she shoot ?

If this is true and Tere is Vigi, then we have a godfather that played like there could be cops around, while there are none.
If this is false... GG Tere, I got fooled and luck was on your side.


She said it because throughout the night she had been asking people who they'd shoot if they had 2 bullets, and there was some discussion back and forth between people about her asking the question without having provided answers at that time.
So the 2 bullet thing would have been on her mind even if she hadn't been explicitly asked, due to considerable prior discussion on a who to shoot with 2 bullets issue.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
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