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On February 19 2015 11:26 Trfel wrote:
Oh, and The Shining, do you still want to quit playing?
Newbie games are extremely difficult. You should have known that before you signed up. People afk'ing sucks. But this game is still winnable, we have capable players here, and we have 50 pages of information to work with. Any townie who lets up now, or quits, basically dooms town despite what everyone else does.
Sorry, no, to make it clear, it was a reaction test out of sheer frustration. Tere responded to my reply on her WOT and chalked it up to a defensive post, didn't bother replying or addressing it. Got frustrated. But like I said to JJB before, I'm not quitting. I'm still posting. Still reading filters and responding. And, thanks to Tere, I've actually regained the motivation I last yesterday.
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On February 19 2015 11:35 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2015 08:48 ElyAs wrote:
I don't know. I really don't. Your play has been consistent with what you said in the beginning (about voting analysis and hunting inconsistences) and your case on Tere is also consistent. But I'm not moving with my read on Tere, so you're either misguided town or scum in my eyes. For now I can't decide so slight scum.
zlefin asked for a list of reads, here it is :
Townish : Trfel, Tere, ElyAs
Null : JJB (need to filter dive), zlefin (want to filter dive too, my earlier scumread on you feels misguided to me.)
Slight scumread : The Shining
Scummy : Silverarte.
I really want to finish filter diving before casting my vote, but if I don't find a better lynch I'm okay with lynching Silver.
It's getting late, I'll have more tomorrow. Wait, The Shining, you refer to this post? You're right, this doesn't look very good. Still, it's not bad enough that this post alone will have a major affect on my read on ElyAs.
Yeah, that post. To be clear when you're catching up, Ely, I'd like to know how being unable to decide between alignments for me becomes an automatic scum instead of null? Please explain my scumread. Something other than "you're scumming my top townread so you're scum" would help.
This is the same player who has also felt almost forgettable, and personally, although he did rescind afterward, he misrepresented one of my posts to make it seem like I hinted at contributing more, then AFKing thread. It was a red flag that I let go because he quickly backed off but I'll be giving a concrete on him once he returns with the results of his JJB and Zlefin filterdives.
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On February 19 2015 11:20 Trfel wrote:
Tere
Can I get clarification as to why you moved Silverarte to a scum read?
Interested in this, as well. As far as I could tell, she moved ElyAs up her list and by default it dropped Silver. She posted right afterwards too that lurkers should beware.
Tere, please clarify. Lurker push or something more?
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+ Show Spoiler +On February 18 2015 07:50 The Shining wrote:Yeah but in it you posted a bit where you said I mentioned my push on Zlef was "slight" as if I were trying to distance myself from the lynch? Which is exactly what you did in that same post by saying you were sleepy and might need to revisit it. And you, you haven't actually CLEARLY stated it, or I wouldn't be pinging on it. This was your reasoning: Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 05:43 Trfel wrote:On February 17 2015 05:41 rsoultin wrote:On February 17 2015 05:37 Trfel wrote:On February 17 2015 05:34 rsoultin wrote:On February 17 2015 05:30 Trfel wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 rsoultin wrote:On February 17 2015 05:22 Trfel wrote:On February 17 2015 05:18 Tere wrote:
Trfel, since I think you are probably town and having a paranoia moment, how can I reach out to you and help with this? You could get killed on night 1 so I don't have to worry about it? In all seriousness, I am (or at least I like to think I am) a better player than to let it have a significant affect on my play. And I am typically suspicious when the general crowd does something quickly (in this case, townreading you). So, don't worry about me, I can take care of myself. Rsoultin, I don't really think it is necessary to say that you are more experienced than Hier. Someone can make amazing arguments in their first game ever, or horrible arguments in their hundredth game.Also, while I don't have trouble figuring out where you stand from your posts, I suppose it is possible that someone might. Read his case, Trfel. It was in response to his disclaimer xP The statement had nothing to do with who was or wasn't right. In fact, please read his entire case closely, since you haven't yet. I have in fact read it. He's stated that you could just be an inexperienced player at least once before. While I find this notion humorous, I still don't think that you needed to emphasize that you are more experienced than he is. Whatever, I guess it shouldn't be a big deal, and I shouldn't fuss over it. Okay, maybe I didn't lol. I don't get where he's coming from as town...but as scum throwing that in there if he somehow does manage to mislynch me xP doubtful unless people just fall for the big shiny case strat...gives him something to go back to and say oops about. You're a better player than to get mislynched. Don't be silly. If we actually get enough votes to lynch you, you are going to flip scum, or you gave up on the game. So I guess we're down to Hier or zlefin? And I really don't like a zlefin lynch. Unless you still want Shining? I could see him being scum, but I don't want him over Hier at present lol Nah, man, I've been mislynched twice. On the same day, ironically. It happens lol. But I was actually talking to intent. I expressly said how much I've played to Tere earlier, so it's not a secret -shrugs- Course, he could just not be reading. I guess I don't want to lynch The Shining at the moment. While I still believe that the things I brought up look scummy, as I stated at the time, several other parts of his filter look like real scumhunting. Were you actually mislynched twice on the same day??? I have some research to do. One of those was LYLO in Student Mafia V, right? So you guess you don't want to lynch me but things still look scummy but things look like real scumhunting, too. It just felt too inconsistent to me.
+ Show Spoiler +On February 18 2015 07:58 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2015 07:50 The Shining wrote:Yeah but in it you posted a bit where you said I mentioned my push on Zlef was "slight" as if I were trying to distance myself from the lynch? Which is exactly what you did in that same post by saying you were sleepy and might need to revisit it. And you, you haven't actually CLEARLY stated it, or I wouldn't be pinging on it. This was your reasoning: On February 17 2015 05:43 Trfel wrote:On February 17 2015 05:41 rsoultin wrote:On February 17 2015 05:37 Trfel wrote:On February 17 2015 05:34 rsoultin wrote:On February 17 2015 05:30 Trfel wrote:On February 17 2015 05:26 rsoultin wrote:On February 17 2015 05:22 Trfel wrote:On February 17 2015 05:18 Tere wrote:
Trfel, since I think you are probably town and having a paranoia moment, how can I reach out to you and help with this? You could get killed on night 1 so I don't have to worry about it? In all seriousness, I am (or at least I like to think I am) a better player than to let it have a significant affect on my play. And I am typically suspicious when the general crowd does something quickly (in this case, townreading you). So, don't worry about me, I can take care of myself. Rsoultin, I don't really think it is necessary to say that you are more experienced than Hier. Someone can make amazing arguments in their first game ever, or horrible arguments in their hundredth game.Also, while I don't have trouble figuring out where you stand from your posts, I suppose it is possible that someone might. Read his case, Trfel. It was in response to his disclaimer xP The statement had nothing to do with who was or wasn't right. In fact, please read his entire case closely, since you haven't yet. I have in fact read it. He's stated that you could just be an inexperienced player at least once before. While I find this notion humorous, I still don't think that you needed to emphasize that you are more experienced than he is. Whatever, I guess it shouldn't be a big deal, and I shouldn't fuss over it. Okay, maybe I didn't lol. I don't get where he's coming from as town...but as scum throwing that in there if he somehow does manage to mislynch me xP doubtful unless people just fall for the big shiny case strat...gives him something to go back to and say oops about. You're a better player than to get mislynched. Don't be silly. If we actually get enough votes to lynch you, you are going to flip scum, or you gave up on the game. So I guess we're down to Hier or zlefin? And I really don't like a zlefin lynch. Unless you still want Shining? I could see him being scum, but I don't want him over Hier at present lol Nah, man, I've been mislynched twice. On the same day, ironically. It happens lol. But I was actually talking to intent. I expressly said how much I've played to Tere earlier, so it's not a secret -shrugs- Course, he could just not be reading. I guess I don't want to lynch The Shining at the moment. While I still believe that the things I brought up look scummy, as I stated at the time, several other parts of his filter look like real scumhunting. Were you actually mislynched twice on the same day??? I have some research to do. One of those was LYLO in Student Mafia V, right? So you guess you don't want to lynch me but things still look scummy but things look like real scumhunting, too. It just felt too inconsistent to me. Is it not wrong to allow for the possibility that being sleepy could negatively affect my play? In the past, I've usually played fine while extremely tired, but in my last game I made a terrible blunder at about 4:30 AM. I don't see sleepiness as being a problem to hold back my reads for, but it would be silly to not mention it as a possibility. As for distancing myself from my scumread of you, it was NOT a scumread. I found a few things I felt were suspicious, and I wanted to hear thoughts from you and other people. Believe me, if I am scumreading someone, I will make it absolutely sure that everyone knows. Some things you did looked scummy, some things you did looked fine. I concluded that the result didn't make me want to lynch you at that time. Is that a problem?
The first spoiler was a post in which I was still suspicious of you. In the second spoiler is your response which I ultimately liked and gave you some town cred in my eyes. Since that post, I've been reading you as town due to your thread presence, your willingness to address literally everything in the thread and also still having a conviction in your questioning. Scum Trfel last game was wishy washy, not very committed but not very weary of who he was lynching. I'm seeing the opposite here. Strong stances with a healthy paranoia of who we may be lynching. So kudos to you if this is your scum game, its completely diff from the last one and notably so.
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Kek. Just kek. As far as I'm concerned, I clearly stated what I wanted from everyone regarding Tere and what happened earlier. You said you think both of us are town, which was half the question, so I won't harass you. Until she comes back and we can "spar" how she wants to, I see no point in me tunneling on her anymore. I risk shutting down again if I do so and that helps no one.
I leave work in 45 mins so ask away, I'll do my best to respond before I leave. I'll let you know if something else crosses my mind concerning you but I'm also going to hold out hope that I'll get to see JJB, Zlefin and Ely again before I go to bed. Still need to read Silver and reread Tere too but I'm honestly pushing that until I get home
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On February 19 2015 12:37 Trfel wrote:The ShiningShow nested quote +On February 16 2015 06:38 The Shining wrote:
That being said, Hier is a very slight townread for me. I don't think scum would put themselves in the spotlight so early with a strategy that unwittingly favors scum.
(...)
Does scum, especially in a newbie game, have the balls to suggest something like that? But you didn't townread me for my opening. And I was scum and put myself in the spotlight in the last game you were in. If you answered this already, I'm sorry. I got bored reading your filter (not because it was boring, but because I think you are town and there are other things I want to look in to!), so if you have answered this already, please forgive me. If not, it would be nice to know. Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 07:32 The Shining wrote:
Zlefin has a couple of posts that lead nowhere and weak and unexplained reads. Mentions WIFOM, game voting rules, some parroting. Says Hier and RSo could both be town or both be scum but wont commit to his reads. Seems to be all for policy lynching inactives when there were only 2. How likely is it both scum members are inactive? Likely my leading candidate for a shot at D1 scum lynch. If this really was a pressure push, why didn't you vote right away? Thanks. Like I said, I think you're town, I had little problem with your filter before, and your recent argument with Tere strengthens that, if anything.
Are you asking why I towned Hier but not you? You missed the last part of the sentence. "With a strategy that unwittingly favors scum.". You put yourself in the spotlight, yes, but not with a huge thought out strategy that makes the game easier for scum. It was so obviously scum-favored, at least in my opinion, that scum putting it up was tantamount to suicide. And would you look at that, we lynched him for it. Mislynched, to be exact.
With you, it might be a little misguided but you have been in all of my TL games to date. Openings to push conversation is your play style, regardless of your alignment. And I had to keep extra caution because you were scum last time you did it.
And I have always been cautious with my votes. Pressure voting isn't my strong suit, and I guess it showed here in this game. I didn't even want to vote to start with, but after 3 posts and no response, I wasn't sure I was going to get one without voting.
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Left work, on mobile. Left late, making a quick stop, be back in less than 2 hours.
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Trfel, I'm sorry but I need to address this. You really have no problem with what you're reading as town Tere actually quoting the question I asked her to tell me I'm reading her wrong but still claiming to have not seen the question?
Imo, it's a pretty blatant example of either unwillingness to read or avoiding the question.
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This is the post I'm referencing. She asked me to repost my question after I quoted this.
On February 19 2015 10:10 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2015 10:02 Tere wrote:On February 19 2015 10:00 The Shining wrote:On February 19 2015 08:56 The Shining wrote:On February 19 2015 06:05 Tere wrote:On February 19 2015 01:27 ElyAs wrote:
You know what Tere ? I'm sold on you being town, and I really hope I'm right.
When I red your posts and Trfel's snap vote, I skipped a beat because I was starting to townread you and saw one of my townreads vote for you. I'm kinda relieved by Trfel's follow-up.
I know I'm not in the best of lights right now, and I'm gonna try to step up my game to find a good case, I owe it to jarjar and Trfel because their posts gave me a little bit of confidence.
I got an hour to allocate to this game right now and I'll try to use it well. (It is really a time consuming game !) This post feels as towny as fuck to me. It's enough to move him off my autolynch pile - before this I was going to place a vote as the best option. It comes from a real place of emotion that is horribly hard to fake, IMO. Moving Elyas up my town - scum pile towards town. Lurkers beware  Are you able to explain to me how this post could be only coming from a town perspective? There's a disclaimer for only having a certain amount of time, leaving an open door in case an uncomfortable question gets asked. And an appeal to emotion instead of an actual reaction to your post. Tere, this is what I was referring to. I can see Ely making this post from either alignment in a move to earn town cred, similar to what I thought you might be doing in talking to me like I'm a baby now. However, I'm going to actively talk to you right now and tomorrow when were both here before I pass anymore judgment on you. If you are reading me like I'm talking to you like a baby, you are reading me wrong. I respect you and your intelligence. However, I really need to go to bed. We can spar in the morning? Deal?  Also quoting this to add to my filter as a reminder tomorrow. Have a goodnight Tere but I really do want to see a response to this when you wake up.
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Ok, Trfel. I'm curious to see who agrees with you. Thank you for answering.
Would you mind elaborating? Do you like Ely's post in a town context?
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Almost home, going to look into JJB. At first glance, I remember that post having context to it.
Would I be correct in assuming that by you towning myself, yourself, Tere and Ely, your lynch candidate will be between Silver, Z and JJB?
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On February 19 2015 14:17 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2015 14:14 The Shining wrote:
Ok, Trfel. I'm curious to see who agrees with you. Thank you for answering.
Would you mind elaborating? Do you like Ely's post in a town context? I do like the post, but I would mind elaborating. It's a question for Tere, and not for me. If I answer, then Tere's answer holds no value at all. I mean, I guess I could answer, but I'd rather not.
I see what you're getting at. Alright, I'll let it go until Tere is back.
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I was, Trfel. I'm pretty sure we're the only 2 here. And ok, that's all I wanted for now, anyway, thank you.
And this next lynch will either bag us scum or put us into Lylo. I hope you can see, objectively, why I'm worried about you preemptively giving an EoD excuse for the second time in as many Day phases. I hope you manage to use the time you do have before EoD productively.
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Lol I agree, hence not calling for your head right now lol.
Alright, I'm out for a little bit. Just got home, time to make good on these dives.
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lol? I'm on a night schedule, this is my best time to do so. I understand it being late for you and wanting to go to sleep, though, I wasn't implying you stick around and dive with me. If you want to sleep, sleep.
I just promised dives on certain people and the last thing I want is someone trying to use a lack of reading to try and push me tomorrow. If we lose because of my mislynch, I obviously need to work on my town game.
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Neither am I, hence my latenight diving. And yeah, I'll do so, even if I think it is a bit lazy of you to ask me to do it. I haven't offered up much and you already hinted at pushing a lot of reads and wanting to hold back so this is the least I could do, I suppose. Also, for some, I double checked/skimmed filters once more so I may add a little extra with things I noticed.
Me - Leaning scum on Tere for what seems to me to be scatter shot suspicions, a lack of explanations on certain reads(most importantly, Silver's drop to scum and Ely's rise to town) and plays, what seemed to be hinting at either a blue role or some spectacular D2 play to catch scum, neither of which was the case...unless the case on me was the spectacular play.
You - Town on Tere. I'm not going to spit back your own filter at you.
Silver - Scumming Tere. Case here:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=49#966 Summary: One liners and an aloof attitude, parrots me on Tere's reaction to my RAGEQUIT reaction test, provides a lot of tonal reads and in the vein of tonal reads, Silver notes that Tere's tone today changed drastically when I came back at her for the first time this game.
ElyAs - Apparently won't be back until 2 hours before EoD, like Trfel. But left a lot earlier in the day. I'm not sure how he intends to find a good read with such little time, plus respond to what's been directed at him, unless he decides to push Silverarte, which at first glance seems to be his biggest scumread.
Anyway, he originally claimed Tere was one of the 2 he would kill if he had the opportunity yesterday, though he did cite a weak read based on her voting timing and sheeping the Hier reads from others. Admits in a later post it was weak reasoning. Then, after the WOTs from Tere, he switches to a STRONG townread without explaining why: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=42#830
I hate pre-flip association but these 2 seem to be banding together after more than 1 person have 1 or both of them down as scum.
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Tere is obviously towning herself as the towniest town to ever town.
JJB - Leaned town on Tere early, citing tonal similarities between her and RSo. After the NK, tried to distance himself from Tere, said he should've treated her how he treated myself and Trfel.
Actually, I need to stop here. JJB, inconsistencies are my thing. You scummed me early and didn't rescind it until that post. And yet...almost an hour before that post, am I wrong in assuming you were still leaning scum on me?
On February 17 2015 04:11 jarjarbinks wrote:
##Vote Zlefin
You voted with one of your top scumread BEFORE you townread me. Did you realize that after the fact, realize you messed up and switched to a town read on me hoping no one would notice?
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But you voted Zlefin after I did but at least an hour before townreading me. What am I missing here?
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SCRATCH THAT, SCRATCH THAT.
I should've clicked quote on both posts and posted them here before I said anything. I didn't realize times change from local to TL Time when quoting.
On February 16 2015 12:00 jarjarbinks wrote:
I retract my position on the shining. Has scumhunted/given reads a lot. I like a lot of the posts too. Solid filter, despite not having many posts. Probably one of my strongest townreads right now.
On February 17 2015 04:11 jarjarbinks wrote:
##Vote Zlefin
I got confused on the times, please ignore that.
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Trfel - This is the only post before he town reads me that I could find. Bolded where it counts.
On February 16 2015 11:39 jarjarbinks wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 10:38 rsoultin wrote:On February 16 2015 09:58 jarjarbinks wrote:
I am curious to see where Zfelin's and Elyas's reads are right now. Has the last few pages changed things?
Rsoultin: if say no one joined your bandwagon, do you have anyone else you are suspicious of? Yes lol. We still have about 24 hours, and some of the participating players I haven't looked into very closely yet. Also, angry Rso? ;o; I'm just animated. If you think Hier is town solely for his creation, who do you think is scum, JJB? lol angry because you scared away the newbie! Hmm you have a point there. I don't have a legitimate scumread that I would be confident in voting on right now. Let me go reread and see if I can pick up something xD Initially I would be worried about Zfelin and Shining (although I really liked Shining's last post about me and Trf). Silver still hasn't posted, so hopefully that happens soon. I didn't like Trf's pocket comment/joke (was it a joke?). While I thought that making a weird strategy was townie, it would be nice for Hiel to answer all of the questions people asked him. I have like Elyas's posts so far to a degree. Much better than my first game on here that's for sure lol
Very soft scum lean, even mentions liking my last post as he does so. He was skeptical of attaching himself to a scum lean on me from get-go and after my posts, went full town. I think I can see where his read progressed, too.
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EPT
