[M][N]Hammertime Mafia

On January 23 2015 10:48 Holyflare wrote:


I don't know when I'll be back and my gf's mum just collapsed and went to hospital so probably won't be back for a long while :/

On January 26 2015 02:18 Half the Sky wrote:
Should be interesting.

*crosses fingers to get town*

On January 26 2015 07:37 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Hi, i see my name

I'm gonna /obs this game.

Went to PAX South, so I've been afk for a bit.

On January 26 2015 08:32 Onegu wrote:



Jeez how long did that take to type out? Have we played together before I don't think so.

On January 26 2015 08:40 GlowingBear wrote:


For a lynch.
I don't vote mafia because, well... Democracy.

On January 26 2015 08:50 Half the Sky wrote:


I just asked him if it was a joke vote and he just responded it was a lynch vote.

On January 26 2015 08:56 GlowingBear wrote:
OMG wait I forgot it is instant!!!

##Unvote

On January 26 2015 08:54 Toadesstern wrote:


yeah I see that. The vote is horrible but it's a slight towntell.
I do not think a mafia would get in the thread, typo my name and vote me without saying anything other than a smiley.

Mafias tend to think about their appearence a lot more than townies. Townies on the other hand are just doing their thing, whatever that might be. And I'm fairly sure a mafia in that situation would have stopped for a second and thought to himself "wait... I should include SOMETHING here"

On January 26 2015 09:08 GlowingBear wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [Attention! Superificial Read] +

Anyway, preliminary town pass for you, Toad.

What do you think of lians vote?

On January 26 2015 09:06 liancourt wrote:
gb was joking and i too was joking

but since it's first day I'll tell you this.

toad claims no one can read him. From my experience a player that cannot be read by other players don't play very townie. They mostly joke around and troll but through many many games they do this so even vets know that even if they don't do anything townie like giving reads or pointing fingers the other players will just let him be. One prime example of this case is Alakaslam. Many of you playing will hopefully know how he plays. I pride myself on reading him correctly despite him using chupazi and hijole. It's because I've seen many of his games and know his slight meta change in different allignments.

However, I have no idea how this guy, Toad, plays when he is town or mafia, and he goes far as to say he is unreadable. Well that really scares me as a player. To me it's like he was saying, "Guys I'm not going to do anything townie so that's that, but read me as town."

On January 26 2015 09:23 GlowingBear wrote:


Isn't it odd that he didn't Unvote yet, and how do you think mafia would react to my vote on you?

On January 26 2015 09:22 liancourt wrote:


what do you think of eden's announcement to lurk to make town easier to lynch him proposal?

On January 26 2015 09:37 Eden1892 wrote:
Wait who the fuck said I'm good?

On January 26 2015 09:46 liancourt wrote:


You're saying you get townread whatever allignment you roll. is this the same as being unreadable? If you do townie things whichever allignment I wouldn't call that being unreadable. I'd call that being a good mafia player. I guess it depends on whether I agree with your reads or not. Even if your townie, if I don't agree with the reasoning you're prolly scum. Right now you haven't really done anything as of yet so it's prolly null

On January 26 2015 09:48 liancourt wrote:


what do you think of his play so far?

On January 26 2015 09:58 liancourt wrote:


so you like to buddy up to people when you role scum?

i know eden can play good. But for some reason he's playing like he really doesn't care how ppl read him. I don't know his sudden reason for change of meta, but I'm down for a policy lynch on him.

On January 26 2015 10:05 Eden1892 wrote:
Man, now there are expectations and I have to pretend to give a damn. Fiiine.

On January 26 2015 10:50 liancourt wrote:
i'd read gb town for the analysis not because he went against popular views which imo is really an odd reason to say someone is townie.

On January 26 2015 11:17 Eden1892 wrote:
I thought he:
Scum read toad town's opening when people seemed to like it
Scum read HTS when people townread her
Scum read me when other people were unsure (he said I was tops mafia lol)

That's rather a lot for the opening

On January 26 2015 11:30 Eden1892 wrote:

In gonna reread this late when I can make send of it

It's an instant majority game and I don't feel confident in going forwards to lynch anyone right now so please let me have more time to read and interact with people.

On January 27 2015 01:27 Toadesstern wrote:
I'd be happy if some of you guys unvoted GB for now. It's an instant majority game and I don't feel confident in going forwards to lynch anyone right now so please let me have more time to read and interact with people.

In particularly I'd like to hear some thoughts, particularly from VE and Palmar on Eden and his behavior yesterday
+ Show Spoiler [my thoughts, spoiler for readability] +

I liked this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=16#310 from VE he did recently.
Liked as in, I think that's something he'd post. I don't really agree with the first part and I am particularly worried that he picked that read as his vote so early when it's quite obvious that GB is perhaps one of the weak points of the playerfield (sry).
GB, to me seems like the easy mislynch right now. Could be VE feels a lot stronger about that read the way he phrased it but I don't hold GB to the same standards as I hold most other people in here, so he's getting a pass based from me right now.

All in all I'm leaning towards Eden, liancourt and Palmar right now. Lian because like I already mentioned I didn't like the fact that I had to be the one to point at the timestamps of HIS target + somethings bothering me about how he's appearing in here. Can't put my finger on it yet. Palmar mostly by process of elimination because Eden + lian doesn't make sense together. So it all goes back to

On January 27 2015 01:37 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like Palmar is talking to me as if he knows I'm town. If no one else is noticing this, there isn't much else I can do.

On January 27 2015 01:37 Palmar wrote:

I have never doubted that this is true.

On January 27 2015 01:39 Half the Sky wrote:
Toad, thoughts on Robik so far? Have you played with him?

On January 27 2015 01:44 VisceraEyes wrote:

.........okay, so why are YOU assuming Palmar is town?

On January 27 2015 01:35 VisceraEyes wrote:

I'll lynch you, you know. If you're town you know I'm bad enough.

On January 27 2015 01:54 VisceraEyes wrote:

I don't want to lynch him for taking a jab at me. I want to lynch him for being a non-entity this game when D1 is BY HIS OWN ADMISSION his very BEST day. He has done nothing but troll this day. Is he capable of such as town? Sure, absolutely. Do I find it likely? Given that he's more interested in trolling WHEN SCRUTINY IS ON HIM and less so when people aren't talking about him, I find it far more likely that he's doing it as mafia.

On January 27 2015 02:21 VisceraEyes wrote:
Initially it was all about your lack of engagement with the game, while simultaneously feeling it necessary to troll. Initially you hadn't made a read on ANYONE, including myself. And even after you started engaging with me you never EXPRESSLY said you thought I was town, which is WHY I found it odd that you were speaking to me AS IF you knew I was town.

On January 27 2015 02:28 Palmar wrote:

♥♥♥

Toad, please help this man, he needs it. I must leave you now, but help him understand. Help him smite away his instincts and accept knowledge.

On January 27 2015 02:32 VisceraEyes wrote:
Toad couldn't help me even if he wanted to. I'm beyond help at this point.

On January 27 2015 03:48 Toadesstern wrote:
Can you compare my list to yours HTS and tell me where the differences are?

1. Toad - town
   
2. HTS - likely town
   GB - likely town
   
3. Palmar - null, maybe slightly town
   VE - null, maybe slightly town
   
4. Robik - null, I have no idea
   
5. Onegu - null, a bit worse than robik though
   
6. Eden1892 - slightly leaning mafia for now
   liancourt - slightly leaning mafia

I know you don't agree with my read on GB. But what about the bottom part of my list? Especially considering that Eden and lian being mafia together makes no sense whatsoever I'd like to get some input on that.

On January 27 2015 03:58 Half the Sky wrote:


Pressure vote?

I am keeping my vote on GB until he gets back to me...

On January 27 2015 04:15 Eden1892 wrote:

hts says so, i've only played one game with him where he was town and i was mafia, and he locked onto me. but idk if he just does it in general or was zeroed in on me because i was obvious LOL

my issue is less that he's zeroed in on me and refusing to budge or explain himself, because townies and mafia both tunnel on targets all the time. my issue is the reasoning he's using, which i feel like doesn't come from the position of someone who doesn't have the truth and is trying to figure it out, but instead from the position of someone who does have the truth and is trying to obscure it from the others

On January 27 2015 04:36 Eden1892 wrote:

Nah, there's a key difference in what I'm observing - for him to start tunneling on someone he thinks is mafia he first has to have some reason for thinking it. If his initially-given reason for thinking I'm mafia doesn't actually make sense from a townie POV, it makes him significantly less likely to be town and tunneling.

Let's say it's d2 and he had done this awesome vote count analysis and made a decent argument for me being mafia. Say I afk'd with my vote on an outlier. He gives his case, then votes me, never reconsiders and starts turning everything I say into something suspicious. He's tunneling on me, but his fundamental argument that began the tunnel is sensible, so he's probably town tunneling.

In contrast, let's say it's d1 and he decided I'm mafia because I posted a picture of a puppy. (shit doesn't have to make sense just roll with it) He then never reconsiders and starting turning everything I say into something suspicious. He's tunneling again, but it starts to look a lot more like mafia tunneling to avoid having to engage the thread, because his original reason for suspecting me was bogus and he then starts adjusting his interpretations of everything I say to justify himself post-facto.

Obviously he's somewhere in the middle, but as I argued before, I think he's closer to the puppy side than the awesome side of the spectrum. His reasoning outright ignored half of his (two) data points without explanation, which is something I think is more likely to come from mafia than from town. He then proceeds to tunnel and misinterpret what I'm saying. The tunneling can go either way but the ignoring of the data points to make his first read can't.

On January 27 2015 07:20 IAmRobik wrote:

His case on me is that I wasn't posting thus I'm mafia. I started posting. He continues to say I'm mafia for meta reasons, even though I've since broken that meta. Thus he's just making shit up and doesn't have any actual thoughts on analysis. Especially since all he does is talk about me. Additionally, he has made 4 posts today that amount to "i'm going afk be back later," which I find inherently scummy.

On January 27 2015 07:27 Toadesstern wrote:

first sentence: He is bad
second+third sentence: well... that's him being bad because he told you about it if he really thinks that way
He shouldn't have done that. We'll have to see what he posts in the next couple hours.
fourth+ sentence: he has only made 4 posts ever since (trusting you on this) so it's obvious there's not a lot of actualy thoughts on analysis.

how is "I'm going afk be back later" something inherently scummy?
HTS has said something along those lines multiple times. I don't see you all over her (pun might be intended)
I actually do that a lot as well depending on my mood, as all three alignments.

On January 27 2015 07:29 Palmar wrote:
Wow I am amazed how much mafia you are for these three words Toad

##vote Toadesstern

On January 27 2015 07:51 Half the Sky wrote:
EBWOP - what also struck me was people in this thread townreading GB simply because he seemed to be putting in the effort for his notetaking posts.

On January 27 2015 08:00 Toadesstern wrote:

I'm mostly still townreading him for the vote on me that had a townish confidence to it to not give a fuck

About your case. I actually quite like it and am considering GB a null at best right now...
I don't care so much about your first point about him and your last point, but the second one about Onegu just commenting on the vote without trying to figure anything out when indeed he was confused and asked about wether it's a troll / mayor / lynch vote at just that time.

That could very well be painting someone red rather than trying to read someone.

On January 27 2015 14:57 Half the Sky wrote:
Sanity please. Good morning.

Took about 10m to skim through. Will post my initial impressions before I jet for work.

I'll look a little harder into Liancourt's posting, but I have some thoughts and some criticisms.

This post from Lian is making me reconsider a scum read on him. Here's why:



How many scumreads does Toad have right now? From what I can tell, zero.

This part of Lian's post is making me think that what if a (potential) mafia Toad could cruise on being so widely townread? It doesn't look likely at this point, but the fact that it made me think, and it shows that Lian has made some broad observation of a player relative to the entire game, despite Toad himself only having a three page filter.

I took a look at Toad's filter, and he seems to be in that information gathering/analysing phase of scumhunting, but if I don't see him pushing something/someone soon, I might just start to wonder. His first vote was on Liancourt on what I believed to be a pressure vote and then he unvoted.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still reading Toad as town, but this was a very provocative post by Lian and makes me think he's town for this observation. At the very least, I might actually move him upwards from my scumpile.

On January 27 2015 18:03 Palmar wrote:
Eden is town

So this leaves:

GB
lian
Toad
Onegu

But then again I'm bad and idk.

The best argument against GB is that he attempted to create a framework for his thought process and didn't really follow it through. It is very tempting to create a framework for yourself when you're mafia "I am only going to read 2 people today", "I am going to do list posts and update them", because it makes posting easier, you just follow whichever formula you have supplied and no one suspects a thing! simple, right?

I can't remember why I think Toad is maybe mafia. But he really could be. The other two I haven't read that much.

On January 27 2015 18:36 Eden1892 wrote:
bruh you just said GB has the same value as a policy lynch
how you gonna turn around and be like "oh yeah lian/onegu/gb were my lynches"

On January 27 2015 19:09 Eden1892 wrote:

you're worrying too much about how the wagons might or might not look at EOD and too little about tracking down and lynching your suspects. refocus please

On January 27 2015 19:28 Palmar wrote:
Do you think my concern regarding GB is irrelevant Toad?

On January 27 2015 19:43 Palmar wrote:

So what?

I feel like it's a mafia thing to do. Unlike all the baddies who cling to meta, I don't care if it's been done before or if he has done it before. I think it's a scummy way to frame your posting this current game.

On January 27 2015 23:41 Palmar wrote:

This post is complete horseshit









In fact I am much more sure on Toad being mafia than GB. But lynching both might be fine.

The point here is Toad is waffling so hard on GB that it's almost painful

On January 28 2015 01:56 Palmar wrote:
Who else went crazy?

On January 28 2015 02:04 Palmar wrote:

Look mama more martyrs

On January 28 2015 02:00 IAmRobik wrote:

Are you even reading this fucking game? I'M LEADING THIS LYNCH!

On January 28 2015 02:09 Palmar wrote:
Kill toad!!!!!!!!!!

On January 28 2015 02:11 Palmar wrote:

There is literally 1 vote on you you imbecile

On January 28 2015 00:43 IAmRobik wrote:

Palmar: I think it's GB & Toad
HTS: omg, you're totes right plammmar. let me make the case for you
Palmar: you're cute

On January 28 2015 00:43 Half the Sky wrote:


Fair play. I'll admit up front I'm 99% sure on GB, but after filter diving him again, Toad is looking bad enough that if there's consensus, I will switch.

We need consensus on either one of these.

Eden, VE, Robik, I'm looking at you three - well Robik IS voting GB - but some feedback on Toad would be appreciated.

On January 28 2015 02:21 VisceraEyes wrote:
Oh okay...it's a wall of quotes, with the single (decent) point about Toad waffling on GB.

Like, did he even read it? Why would he call it a wall?

On January 28 2015 02:36 IAmRobik wrote:

I've taken a shovel and buried the fuck out of GB and have been pushing him all day. If you think I'm mafia, then why the fuck are you voting with me

On January 28 2015 04:00 Eden1892 wrote:

Please unvote
I know you really want this lynch, and we can have it later if you want. But we have 1d4h left. Don't throw it away

On January 28 2015 04:04 Toadesstern wrote:
also mafia would have hammered that if we had 28hours left and we were at 4 votes. GB mafia, gg

On January 28 2015 04:05 Eden1892 wrote:

bingo, unless both mafia were already on gb

On January 28 2015 04:06 Eden1892 wrote:
I have to admit that it's weird that GB would self-vote and retract if he's mafia. You don't self-vote as mafia unless you're planning to have your partner hammer it away to cut off discussion.

On January 28 2015 04:13 Eden1892 wrote:

It's not impossible. HTS is the only person on that list I would say absolutely isn't mafia. Robik is very probably town, but it's worthy to note that a lot of his getting townread is that he's said the "right" things about a player (GlowingBear) popularly perceived as mafia, and so if GB is town (which the 2-mafia-on-GB theory necessarily implies), that has to be reevaluated. And I'm still uneasy about you and concerned about VE. So I'm still considering that possibility, yeah.

Alternatively, GB could be mafia and his partner could have already tried to bus before the self-vote.

There's nothing that anyone can say right now that can move any of those possibilities out of the realm of statistically significant chance, so I want time to evaluate all of them.

On January 28 2015 04:20 Eden1892 wrote:
Well, no, strike that. If the panicking didn't come until after GB retracted self-vote, it doesn't hold.

Question stands though.

On January 28 2015 04:27 Eden1892 wrote:
bruh.
i'm not even talkin about you LMAO

I was trying to figure out a reason why mafia!GB would get cold feet about martyring, and the only thing I thought of is that he might have seen you flipping your shit about getting lynched and tried to get on that ice instead

But it doesn't matter b/c you flipped out after GB unmartyred so

On January 28 2015 04:32 Half the Sky wrote:
Also does Palmar typically policy vote D1? That's another thing I forgot to consider.

On January 28 2015 04:44 GlowingBear wrote:
If you believe mafia would have hammered me you have to think that toad is mafia The only thing that prevents me to vote toad is that palmar is scum reading him

On January 28 2015 04:47 Half the Sky wrote:


Toad was not in thread at the time. I already looked into that.

It was Robik, me, Onegu, Palmar, and both Robik and I had votes on you already.

On January 28 2015 04:55 GlowingBear wrote:
Yeah but when it came back to the thread he instantly voted me reach makes no sense Because he cared down read on me and He admitted to me voted me for survival

On January 28 2015 05:11 IAmRobik wrote:

THIS IS A FUCKING LIE

On January 28 2015 06:03 Half the Sky wrote:


You have a scumread on Toad, presumably.

Why are/were you voting a policy read over a scum read?

Why aren't you pushing Toad to everyone else who was in here?

On January 28 2015 04:53 Palmar wrote:

you're scum or seriously bad.

I don't care which but please stop playing in the best interest of town

thank you

On January 28 2015 10:25 Palmar wrote:

He's mafia.

You can lynch me if he isn't.

On January 29 2015 01:34 VisceraEyes wrote:
To set the record straight, I'm pretty sure I haven't defended you anywhere Toad. Simply asked Palmar to further elaborate on his read of you. I'm very close to voting for you myself, because I'm not used to you playing a game without screaming about how X or Y is mafia...regardless of your alignment.

On February 23 2012 19:00 Palmar wrote:
But it's so hard to blue-hunt...

So I decided to shoot some scum night 1, could even hit hugo and then try to look like I'm not batman. I shot radfield, but of course he was talia.

Toad being the joker didn't click until about the time I posted this

The reason for all the trolling and spamming is that I wanted to make the thread as useless for scumhunting as possible. The reason being that my theory was that if I made actually playing mafia impossible, the town would turn to their blue roles for support, thus allowing me to better identify them.

I think it kinda worked, we got a load of claims early in the game and they helped me tremendously. I mean... figuring out the exact identity of one person out of 30-ish on day 2 is not something that normally happens, but given the chaotic thread it was much easier.

On January 29 2015 02:47 Half the Sky wrote:


I hope you are joking.

This is a pure vanilla game. Why in the actual hell are you or anyone suggesting third party play?

I'm leaving the office, and headed for a dinner date. I'll be back.

On February 02 2015 05:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Updated the OP.

On February 02 2015 22:11 Palmar wrote:
Sorry I was wrong on Toad, my bad.