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[M][N]Hammertime Mafia - Page 12
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Oh wait yes I do. One sec. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 28 2015 11:02 GlowingBear wrote: Lian is probably town, why are you voting him again? Why do you think liancourt is probably town? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 28 2015 02:30 VisceraEyes wrote: I think Eden and HTS are both super town. I'm LEANING town on liancourt because of how he "responded" to Eden freaking out. I still suspect Palmar of being mafia and I'm still suspecting GB. Palmar coming in and actually trying to lynch someone moves him out of my lynch preferences for today, so GB is my default as of right now. Unless someone can convince me that Toad is the best lynch, I'm going to look for a better lynch than GB, in case there is one. On January 28 2015 10:24 VisceraEyes wrote: Ehhhhh...I think I like this the most. ##Unvote ##Vote: liancourt Palmar feel free to elaborate on your Toad read whenever you get the chance. If I agree with it I might reconsider - I'm historically bad at reading Toad, so meh. What changed? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 27 2015 01:27 Toadesstern wrote: I'd be happy if some of you guys unvoted GB for now. It's an instant majority game and I don't feel confident in going forwards to lynch anyone right now so please let me have more time to read and interact with people. In particularly I'd like to hear some thoughts, particularly from VE and Palmar on Eden and his behavior yesterday + Show Spoiler [my thoughts, spoiler for readability] + so like I said, his innitial read on GB was bullshit but I didn't mind it that much. It boiled down to him not checking timestamps and if he's really on a party phoneposting no way in hell is he reading carefully enough for that. He then continued to get more pressure and started to post garbage like crazy. A lot more drunk, a lot more unreadable than before. And I'm just sitting here thinking about how likely it is that actually happened... For me it's something like this: party - phoneposting - drunk Out of those 3 only 2 work together. If I'm on a party phoneposting I don't get that drunk because I'm reading a mafiagame and posting on my phone. Apparently not that good of a party. If I'm drunk on a party I'm having fun, maybe I'd phonepost something early but if I'm really that drunk because the party's amazing I don't touch my phone anymore and have fun on the party About VE: I know I said I don't like talking about it... but it just sounds really fake to me. On the other hand, if he actually was drunk he's more likely to overreact like that ... It's just that last game as town I wanted to lynch BH, BH posted pics of his appartment and said he's moving so I didn't lynch him and it was really stupid of me (why would he sign up for a game if he knows he's going to move 2 days after the game starts...) and I don't want that to happen again I liked this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=16#310 from VE he did recently. Liked as in, I think that's something he'd post. I don't really agree with the first part and I am particularly worried that he picked that read as his vote so early when it's quite obvious that GB is perhaps one of the weak points of the playerfield (sry). GB, to me seems like the easy mislynch right now. Could be VE feels a lot stronger about that read the way he phrased it but I don't hold GB to the same standards as I hold most other people in here, so he's getting a pass based from me right now. All in all I'm leaning towards Eden, liancourt and Palmar right now. Lian because like I already mentioned I didn't like the fact that I had to be the one to point at the timestamps of HIS target + somethings bothering me about how he's appearing in here. Can't put my finger on it yet. Palmar mostly by process of elimination because Eden + lian doesn't make sense together. So it all goes back to So first thing is why did you ever scumread me for phoneposting while drinking at birthday dinner? This is a really dumb reason to suspect someone. Basically why so serious? Why not either try to interpret what I was saying (which wasn't THAT jumbled, I was clear on one point at least because I've kept raising it throughout the day), or say "Meh, I can't read his posts, he's null until he does something coherent." Makes no sense. And even if it were true that I were at a party, the idea that I'm mafia for taking time out of the party makes me more suspicious, when as mafia I could afk for 100% legit reasons, is silly. You would basically have to believe I made that whole thing up and spent like 1.5 hrs pretending to drunkpost for this to make sense, and that's ridiculous. Why did you POE Palmar as mafia here when you would later go on to declare him null slightly town (without any kind of signposting in-between to indicate a shift in opinion) and also declare several other nulls? Why did your townread of liancourt evaporate because he didn't notice any timestamps in posts? On January 27 2015 15:54 Toadesstern wrote: I'm one of the guys that figures out who's town and lynches into whoever is left, starting with the guy my stomach likes the least as I'm usually incredibly confident in my townreads. You're probably not going to see me make long cases about people being mafia. That mostly goes out to you and lian who said he expected me to be someone like Marv/HF... I even told you that I'm the kind of guy that just looks cute and everyone wants to cuddle :3 That being said, a walkthrough of my thoughts lately would be: We lynch into Eden / Lian / Onegu, preferably Lian or Onegu at the point of when I made my general list. Robik if we havn't won by then. Right now I'm fairly confident that I don't want to touch Eden at all, he has been quite impressive the last 24~30 hours or so and like I already said I agree with that one point on GB you did, so he dropped in my list. So for right now it's between Onegu and Lian, leaning towards Onegu. GB for me is an option I'd be willing to discuss but that to me has the same value as a policy lynch because a potential mislynch on GB would be a disaster. Meaning if that guy ends up town we had the easiest votedump for mafia ever for d1. Onegu has that under-the-radar but not just completly afk feel to him I don't like. Lian I have to reread some because people apparently think he got super towny in the last couple hours? I'd also like to add Palmar to the list because he still hasn't done shit at all but let's be honest here, he knows me good enough to know that I'd only be pressuring and asking people to give him one more day if push comes to shove. I've seen him behave exactly like this as town multiple times (I think? at least once), which doesn't make him town but I'd try to avoid that lynch d1. If the first sentence about finding townreads is true then why did you spend the whole first half of the phase naming your scumreads instead of your townreads? How can you say "preferably Onegu" when he was ahead of me and liancourt? If you're paying so much attention to timestamps that you scumread liancourt for not doing so, how do you manage to call me "impressive" for the entire length of the game to that point while also wanting to kill me for the entire length of the game to that point? Why did you have Palmar as a POE mafia read if your policy is to give him a day to prove himself town? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 28 2015 18:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Palmar and GB both swinging back toward townie to me. Though I WOULD like Palmar to explain his push on Toad in greater detail. I asked him once and he explained nothing. He sounded townie when he came back though. Lian is just doing the least to figure out the game to me. Like there are things in most peoples' filters that makes me think they're town and lian just has a lack of that. OK, I agree with all this, and it lines up pretty well with your progression of scumreads and evolving view of the game state. And since you answered in 11 minutes instead of 110 you're probably town. #PalmarWasRight | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 27 2015 01:27 Toadesstern wrote: I'd be happy if some of you guys unvoted GB for now. It's an instant majority game and I don't feel confident in going forwards to lynch anyone right now so please let me have more time to read and interact with people. In particularly I'd like to hear some thoughts, particularly from VE and Palmar on Eden and his behavior yesterday + Show Spoiler [my thoughts, spoiler for readability] + so like I said, his innitial read on GB was bullshit but I didn't mind it that much. It boiled down to him not checking timestamps and if he's really on a party phoneposting no way in hell is he reading carefully enough for that. He then continued to get more pressure and started to post garbage like crazy. A lot more drunk, a lot more unreadable than before. And I'm just sitting here thinking about how likely it is that actually happened... For me it's something like this: party - phoneposting - drunk Out of those 3 only 2 work together. If I'm on a party phoneposting I don't get that drunk because I'm reading a mafiagame and posting on my phone. Apparently not that good of a party. If I'm drunk on a party I'm having fun, maybe I'd phonepost something early but if I'm really that drunk because the party's amazing I don't touch my phone anymore and have fun on the party About VE: I know I said I don't like talking about it... but it just sounds really fake to me. On the other hand, if he actually was drunk he's more likely to overreact like that ... It's just that last game as town I wanted to lynch BH, BH posted pics of his appartment and said he's moving so I didn't lynch him and it was really stupid of me (why would he sign up for a game if he knows he's going to move 2 days after the game starts...) and I don't want that to happen again I liked this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=16#310 from VE he did recently. Liked as in, I think that's something he'd post. I don't really agree with the first part and I am particularly worried that he picked that read as his vote so early when it's quite obvious that GB is perhaps one of the weak points of the playerfield (sry). GB, to me seems like the easy mislynch right now. Could be VE feels a lot stronger about that read the way he phrased it but I don't hold GB to the same standards as I hold most other people in here, so he's getting a pass based from me right now. All in all I'm leaning towards Eden, liancourt and Palmar right now. Lian because like I already mentioned I didn't like the fact that I had to be the one to point at the timestamps of HIS target + somethings bothering me about how he's appearing in here. Can't put my finger on it yet. Palmar mostly by process of elimination because Eden + lian doesn't make sense together. So it all goes back to So first thing is why did you ever scumread me for phoneposting while drinking at birthday dinner? This is a really dumb reason to suspect someone. Basically why so serious? Why not either try to interpret what I was saying (which wasn't THAT jumbled, I was clear on one point at least because I've kept raising it throughout the day), or say "Meh, I can't read his posts, he's null until he does something coherent." Makes no sense. And even if it were true that I were at a party, the idea that I'm mafia for taking time out of the party makes me more suspicious, when as mafia I could afk for 100% legit reasons, is silly. You would basically have to believe I made that whole thing up and spent like 1.5 hrs pretending to drunkpost for this to make sense, and that's ridiculous. Why did you POE Palmar as mafia here when you would later go on to declare him null slightly town (without any kind of signposting in-between to indicate a shift in opinion) and also declare several other nulls? Why did your townread of liancourt evaporate because he didn't notice any timestamps in posts? On January 27 2015 15:54 Toadesstern wrote: I'm one of the guys that figures out who's town and lynches into whoever is left, starting with the guy my stomach likes the least as I'm usually incredibly confident in my townreads. You're probably not going to see me make long cases about people being mafia. That mostly goes out to you and lian who said he expected me to be someone like Marv/HF... I even told you that I'm the kind of guy that just looks cute and everyone wants to cuddle :3 That being said, a walkthrough of my thoughts lately would be: We lynch into Eden / Lian / Onegu, preferably Lian or Onegu at the point of when I made my general list. Robik if we havn't won by then. Right now I'm fairly confident that I don't want to touch Eden at all, he has been quite impressive the last 24~30 hours or so and like I already said I agree with that one point on GB you did, so he dropped in my list. So for right now it's between Onegu and Lian, leaning towards Onegu. GB for me is an option I'd be willing to discuss but that to me has the same value as a policy lynch because a potential mislynch on GB would be a disaster. Meaning if that guy ends up town we had the easiest votedump for mafia ever for d1. Onegu has that under-the-radar but not just completly afk feel to him I don't like. Lian I have to reread some because people apparently think he got super towny in the last couple hours? I'd also like to add Palmar to the list because he still hasn't done shit at all but let's be honest here, he knows me good enough to know that I'd only be pressuring and asking people to give him one more day if push comes to shove. I've seen him behave exactly like this as town multiple times (I think? at least once), which doesn't make him town but I'd try to avoid that lynch d1. If the first sentence about finding townreads is true then why did you spend the whole first half of the phase naming your scumreads instead of your townreads? How can you say "preferably Onegu" when he was ahead of me and liancourt? If you're paying so much attention to timestamps that you scumread liancourt for not doing so, how do you manage to call me "impressive" for the entire length of the game to that point while also wanting to kill me for the entire length of the game to that point? Why did you have Palmar as a POE mafia read if your policy is to give him a day to prove himself town? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Thoughts on liancourt? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I'm town, HTS is town. Palmar and I are on the same wavelength on Toad so he's town. That means his townreads of VE and Robik are also correct. This leaves the following four people to lynch into: Toadesstern, GlowingBear, liancourt, Onegu. We have 2 MLs and there are 2 mafia. Lynch all 4 and this game is auto. In order I would probably do Toadesstern, liancourt, Onegu, GlowingBear ##UNVOTE: liancourt ##VOTE: Toadesstern | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I suspect Toad because those last 2 posts I quoted and asked questions about were full of holes that betrayed a mafia mentality to me. The inconsistencies simply cannot come from a townie mindset imo. The townreads/scumreads question I asked is probably the best example: Toad explicitly tells us how he tries to find mafia, presumably we're supposed to take this as a genuine statement, but if you read his filter he doesn't actually follow this at all. If he were town and told us he scumhunts by trying to find townreads, we should be able to go through his filter and find posts principally oriented toward determining whether or not someone is clearly town and POEing from there. Instead most of his focus is in identifying suspects. His reads also aren't adequately steelmanned. They're weak. His reasoning for suspecting people not only isn't good reasoning, but the people he picks out have better cases already made for them or have done things that are more suspicious. His read on liancourt is a superb example of this: Where Onegu and I have made reasonably sound arguments for lynching liancourt - a lack of actual interacting with the thread, sparse posts that are very light on substance - Toad allegedly suspects liancourt for... having to have it pointed out to him that I messed up the timestamps in my argument for townreading GB. This is a bad reason to suspect liancourt because it's not alignment-indicative at all. For how active he's been in the thread, one ought expect better from him than this, were he town. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 28 2015 18:39 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm wifflewaffling between Onegu and lian. Like...Onegu's read on liancourt is really weird. Early on he seems to just want more activity from liancourt, and when lian finally does come in and do things Onegu's IMMEDIATE reaction is "That's the scummiest shit ever" Onegu has a great argument for lynching liancourt. On January 28 2015 13:45 Onegu wrote: I don't mind you making posts one after another, but A) you aren't pushing your reads. B) your catch up posts have little to no substance C) then you just peace out This isn't town behavior, you are not trying to solve the game you are just trying to look busy. liancourt's posting this game has been to afk for most of it, then show up and respond to events that are of varying significance long after they cease to be relevant, say nothing insightful about these events, not interact with people in the thread, and then afk again to repeat the cycle. That's a great reason to lynch someone. And Onegu keeps pushing the lynch when he's around to do it. I'm not really seeing how they're equivalent at all tbh. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 28 2015 19:09 GlowingBear wrote: Eden, I'm reading lian as town because he had the same thoughts as I on toads entrance and he scumread you and pushed you like hell. He tends to do this as town. There is one thing I'm weary of: he is actually not that confident or trying to get someone lynched. He is just applying pressure. But I still have a town read on him. I'm not seeing how he's applying pressure. His posting style just doesn't allow for it. If he's pressing me and I know the guy is liable to bounce from the thread and not follow up on his questioning me, why would I feel any incentive to take his questions seriously? I argued earlier about him tunneling me not necessarily being town, I'll have to filter dive myself because I'm an idiot who won't stop posting but it's in there somewhere. Toad is the better kill of the two but I really think they're 1-2 right now. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 27 2015 01:27 Toadesstern wrote: I'd be happy if some of you guys unvoted GB for now. It's an instant majority game and I don't feel confident in going forwards to lynch anyone right now so please let me have more time to read and interact with people. In particularly I'd like to hear some thoughts, particularly from VE and Palmar on Eden and his behavior yesterday + Show Spoiler [my thoughts, spoiler for readability] + so like I said, his innitial read on GB was bullshit but I didn't mind it that much. It boiled down to him not checking timestamps and if he's really on a party phoneposting no way in hell is he reading carefully enough for that. He then continued to get more pressure and started to post garbage like crazy. A lot more drunk, a lot more unreadable than before. And I'm just sitting here thinking about how likely it is that actually happened... For me it's something like this: party - phoneposting - drunk Out of those 3 only 2 work together. If I'm on a party phoneposting I don't get that drunk because I'm reading a mafiagame and posting on my phone. Apparently not that good of a party. If I'm drunk on a party I'm having fun, maybe I'd phonepost something early but if I'm really that drunk because the party's amazing I don't touch my phone anymore and have fun on the party About VE: I know I said I don't like talking about it... but it just sounds really fake to me. On the other hand, if he actually was drunk he's more likely to overreact like that ... It's just that last game as town I wanted to lynch BH, BH posted pics of his appartment and said he's moving so I didn't lynch him and it was really stupid of me (why would he sign up for a game if he knows he's going to move 2 days after the game starts...) and I don't want that to happen again I liked this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=16#310 from VE he did recently. Liked as in, I think that's something he'd post. I don't really agree with the first part and I am particularly worried that he picked that read as his vote so early when it's quite obvious that GB is perhaps one of the weak points of the playerfield (sry). GB, to me seems like the easy mislynch right now. Could be VE feels a lot stronger about that read the way he phrased it but I don't hold GB to the same standards as I hold most other people in here, so he's getting a pass based from me right now. All in all I'm leaning towards Eden, liancourt and Palmar right now. Lian because like I already mentioned I didn't like the fact that I had to be the one to point at the timestamps of HIS target + somethings bothering me about how he's appearing in here. Can't put my finger on it yet. Palmar mostly by process of elimination because Eden + lian doesn't make sense together. So it all goes back to So first thing is why did you ever scumread me for phoneposting while drinking at birthday dinner? This is a really dumb reason to suspect someone. Basically why so serious? Why not either try to interpret what I was saying (which wasn't THAT jumbled, I was clear on one point at least because I've kept raising it throughout the day), or say "Meh, I can't read his posts, he's null until he does something coherent." Makes no sense. And even if it were true that I were at a party, the idea that I'm mafia for taking time out of the party makes me more suspicious, when as mafia I could afk for 100% legit reasons, is silly. You would basically have to believe I made that whole thing up and spent like 1.5 hrs pretending to drunkpost for this to make sense, and that's ridiculous. Why did you POE Palmar as mafia here when you would later go on to declare him null slightly town (without any kind of signposting in-between to indicate a shift in opinion) and also declare several other nulls? Why did your townread of liancourt evaporate because he didn't notice any timestamps in posts? On January 27 2015 15:54 Toadesstern wrote: I'm one of the guys that figures out who's town and lynches into whoever is left, starting with the guy my stomach likes the least as I'm usually incredibly confident in my townreads. You're probably not going to see me make long cases about people being mafia. That mostly goes out to you and lian who said he expected me to be someone like Marv/HF... I even told you that I'm the kind of guy that just looks cute and everyone wants to cuddle :3 That being said, a walkthrough of my thoughts lately would be: We lynch into Eden / Lian / Onegu, preferably Lian or Onegu at the point of when I made my general list. Robik if we havn't won by then. Right now I'm fairly confident that I don't want to touch Eden at all, he has been quite impressive the last 24~30 hours or so and like I already said I agree with that one point on GB you did, so he dropped in my list. So for right now it's between Onegu and Lian, leaning towards Onegu. GB for me is an option I'd be willing to discuss but that to me has the same value as a policy lynch because a potential mislynch on GB would be a disaster. Meaning if that guy ends up town we had the easiest votedump for mafia ever for d1. Onegu has that under-the-radar but not just completly afk feel to him I don't like. Lian I have to reread some because people apparently think he got super towny in the last couple hours? I'd also like to add Palmar to the list because he still hasn't done shit at all but let's be honest here, he knows me good enough to know that I'd only be pressuring and asking people to give him one more day if push comes to shove. I've seen him behave exactly like this as town multiple times (I think? at least once), which doesn't make him town but I'd try to avoid that lynch d1. If the first sentence about finding townreads is true then why did you spend the whole first half of the phase naming your scumreads instead of your townreads? How can you say "preferably Onegu" when he was ahead of me and liancourt? If you're paying so much attention to timestamps that you scumread liancourt for not doing so, how do you manage to call me "impressive" for the entire length of the game to that point while also wanting to kill me for the entire length of the game to that point? Why did you have Palmar as a POE mafia read if your policy is to give him a day to prove himself town? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
##VOTE: Palmar I will not lose to this display. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 29 2015 03:25 Palmar wrote: Kill toad Lynch this guy for being useless | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
(1) I need to not let my pride get in the way (2) Does mafia Palmar really do this? | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 29 2015 05:34 Half the Sky wrote: I was however, unsatisfied with Lian's latest post. A bunch of theoreticals without evaluating content in the game. I can see why someone might think it's a good post because Lian is telling us to evalute X and Y on different types of criteria, but I'm pretty sure Eden at least was trying to examine the possibility of Onegu being scum or not being scum based on the decision to hammer or not hammer GB at least 10 pages prior to him posting that and when he couldn't, VE was questioning the validity of Onegu's post for at least a while. GB and Onegu ALREADY have been getting evaluated on other criteria aside from the potential hammer incident. So, unless I'm reading it wrong, this is why Lian's latest post strikes me as him saying something just to say something. It's already been touched on, although not directly. Thank you. I have no idea why people who weren't reading him town before thought his last post made him town. He elaborated a little bit on things he had already said, but it still didn't go into enough detail to advance the discussion. It's the same argument that I engaged 2 days ago where he just about says "you can't use heuristics because they're assumptions which can be wrong." And I'm not saying it was a suspicious post per se, just that it was more of the same, and that it's weird to me that people felt differently about it compared to his previous posts. | ||
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