EPTYou called Gum and Shining out for wasting votes at EoD. Why not Celeste? (I'm reading from closest to the lynch to earliest, so if you did so earlier, apologies in advance.)
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
You called Gum and Shining out for wasting votes at EoD. Why not Celeste? (I'm reading from closest to the lynch to earliest, so if you did so earlier, apologies in advance.) | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Key points: 1 The part about LS and Shining makes some sense in that it is less likely that scum will double bus, or that double bussing is just less likely. The only problem with this is that no one has flipped scum, so I see that we can't really start making conclusions until somebody flips. I have generally been against unflipped association reads, but that's just my interpretation. 2 The periphery part is a difference in interpretation. Personally peripheral votes is one of the ways a single scum can hide, but just as it is highly unlikely all scum will be on the same wagon, it's also highly unlikely all scum would have been on the periphery. I generally tend to think hiding on the periphery makes someone scum...in conjunction with other evidence. 3 The point on Shining versus WW. Scum generally want to try and split votes to have a greater chance of lynching a townie (generally speaking) so I can understand her rationale for consolidation. It makes complete sense from a town point of view. On the other hand - if I am reading you correctly here - you are contesting she had the pull to do so because she did push Shining hard. The problem here is context though. I recall she said she had limited time and that people didn't switch until after she left. Unless I am understanding "I will have to settle for ww" wrongly. But I think my English is well enough that I understood what she was trying to do here. Finally as I have just mentioned with Tubesock and discussing Silverarte, I'd also like to see (when you are back in thread) some discussion of Rasputin's D2 activity.. You obviously think she is scum, so I would imagine there is some reasoning behind her current/latest actions where you feel that read has not changed. So when you return I'd like to see that when you can. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
I see that you said you were willing to shenanigan onto Shining or JarJar before the blue claim, but only them. So the blue claim wasn't enough to get you to go for either of your other scumreads, who both had votes? Shining especially would have been a good choice at the time. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
Do you have any questions for me? I'm still working back through the posting leading up to the lynch. | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On January 09 2015 11:59 rsoultin wrote: ...was that an answer to my question? What does scumreading JarJar have to do with Celestial being the only one voting for him? I see that you said you were willing to shenanigan onto Shining or JarJar before the blue claim, but only them. So the blue claim wasn't enough to get you to go for either of your other scumreads, who both had votes? Shining especially would have been a good choice at the time. Celestial was a town read whom I already felt I knew his reasoning. Celestial and I talked about his lynch vote. Gum was a lurker, so I wanted some sort of an answer, and I was already scumming Shining. I didn't believe the blue claim. I wasn't going to move. Warwaffle would have had to come back to the thread and hard claimed, or at least 1 (most likely it would have taken 2) people to jump off. I don't think I would have followed Silverarte off. I'm not even sure if LS jumped would I have. Bad play I get it. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On January 09 2015 11:57 Tubesock wrote: Bah I can't read. You're asking at eod. I was town reading Celestial then as we had an exchange when he said he was going to jarjar. Jar being my listed #2, I didn't really care about it. Tube, you wanted me to ask you questions. Please answer them. How does this matter? You called out Gumdrop at least twice and Shining for wasting their votes leading up to the lynch. But you didn't bother saying anything to Celestial. Am I misunderstanding something? | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On January 09 2015 12:05 rsoultin wrote: Do you have any questions for me? I'm still working back through the posting leading up to the lynch. The only question I have at this point in time for you is to confirm your scumreads and/or nulls. You said a number of people were being scummy in a recent post. I know you are scumreading Celestial and LS possibly but whom else? Tonight I am able to stay up a bit late until 4am, or another 45 mins, so if either you have something for me, please let me know. I'm off work tomorrow thank goodness. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On January 09 2015 12:05 rsoultin wrote: Sorry HTS lol, I'm not ignoring you. And yes, the phrasing "settle for WW" means he wasn't my first choice. And bah, didn't say before, but yes, thank you for clarifying, this is exactly how I read it. | ||
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
@RSoultin, I'm glad that you clarified that you won't rule anyone out based on a flip. My purpose of that post was to let it be known to everyone in the thread that, should I be lynched due to my less-than-stellar play to this point, I'll flip town and that should in no way exonerate LS. I'm well aware there is a possibility I might be wagoned today and with LS now trying to push the theory that we're both framed and being so wishy-washy with his read on me(I went from all in scumread lynch at EoN to somewhere on page 41, I'm a town read again...remember my thoughts on Mafia giving free town reads?) I wanted there to be no misinterpretation that LS is scum in my eyes. However, I'm not going to beat a dead horse when it comes to the LS case. He's doing a good job of finishing himself off as his filter grows. @Celestial, one townread is one townread. 2 townreads is a couple. Explain to me how 3 reads leaning town so early in the game is not a bunch? As I mentioned in the post you responded to, I've learned that Mafia, especially Day One, likes to hide behind those big posts with a couple of town reads to hopefully gain some credit. It doesn't escape me that your 3 Town reads were: Trfel - NK. He didn't like your big post but never got to elaborate on you. Confirmed town. ExO - Aside from me not liking his early attacks with too little follow through for my liking, most everyone here liked his play and the points he made. I'm almost willing to chalk it up to my newb play and meta bias from past games with him that I seem to be the odd one out but it's convenient that he's a Town read for you, too. It's almost too easy to sheep multiple players believing ExO is town. Shining - Me. I had already been under suspicion for my questioning Soultin and HTS. It's another free town read for you as scum. Why were you one of the ones Town reading me for the same posts everyone else was scumming me? Because you expected my wagon to pick up more. Once I flip town, you can say "I told you so, guys, let's stop mislynching" and try to lead the discussion. Sort of what you did with WW. Although you didn't Town him, you did go "against" his lynch, somewhat. However, after looking at the Voting Thread and your filter, this troubles me: On January 06 2015 23:33 -Celestial- wrote: I tend to agree with this assessment to be honest. I had WW down as leaning scum right from his early attempt at analysis but its just gotten drastically worse since then. See, you go from scumming WW to saying it has gotten worse. However, once WW's train received it's 3rd vote, you started backpedaling. Probably to have some deniability on the wagon you wanted to go through? On January 06 2015 23:53 Silverarte wrote: ##Vote: TheWarWaffle On January 07 2015 01:43 -Celestial- wrote: Ok I've taken the time myself to read over the evidence that LS presented and...actually its pretty convincing. Although I think meta reads, especially based on just one game, can easily be manipulated he IS playing this very similar to the way he has in the past and it IS from three separate games so...yeah well done there. I can't in good faith vote LS anymore. His playstyle is just too consistent between townie games there and it has severely shaken my confidence on it. I don't really know playstyles very well of course but those links were fairly convincing. Of course LS could be deliberately selecting evidence but it doesn't feel like that, it feels more like a genuine attempt at convincing. Not a D1 lynch for me anymore. I'm going to take a chance and remove my vote from there and put it on someone else. Its between WW, Shining and jarjar for me, as per my reads earlier. I agree with Tube, WW isn't the best candidate. His opening post was weak and he's said nothing since then but that isn't enough for me to lynch him at this early stage. I'd like to see more from Shining before I could put a vote down there. So I guess I'm going with jarjar for now since I have to vote for SOMEONE and frankly I really don't like his posting at all, it looks really scummy; was also the second highest read on my list so... ##Unvote ##Vote: jarjarbinks I think I'm still somewhat tainted by rsoultin's original impression on me. I really, really didn't like what appeared to be bluehunting (the reasoning for which I posted a little while back, I can quote it if you like). Though she has improved somewhat since that I'm still wary. Gumdrops I've just flat out not seen enough from to make much of a judgement call. Same with Trfel. But both of them posted something that appeared to be reasonably thought out so slight leanings towards town. Trfel also stated in advance he wouldn't be around for a bit and Gumdrops just seems awkward about posting. I can't condemn either of them to scum for that. Silver I have literally no idea about, as I posted. I'd appreciate anyone else's thoughts because to me it just appears to be a mix. You didn't start great which is why I leaned you towards scum, but I didn't find your opening to be as scummy as rsoultins was and you've both improved in my eyes to the point where you're both back to neutral. But since rsoultin started off with slightly more damning posts you're slightly more in the townie direction than she is. All of your "lynching WW is silly" was after the wagon already picked up speed. I've already explained why you'd throw away a vote as scum once the lynch already looks secured. Also, as EoD got closer, I asked my question about ties. At that time, it was WW's 4 to my 3. Your question was: On January 07 2015 08:55 -Celestial- wrote: So even if someone other than WW got a vote he'd still die? This was your opportunity to figure out if you needed to join one of the main wagons or not. If ties end in no lynch, you'd vote either WW or myself in order to ensure a town mislynch. Also, can I point out(since I filter-dove you pretty hard) that you also scummed Tube, but sheeped his WW read? It's quoted above but you said "I agree with Tube, WW isn't the best lynch for today." And I just hit Celestial's massive post on my case. First, a case on LS when we've all beaten it to death and now me, pretty much the only other viable wagon besides yourself(who you can't vote) and LS(possible scum partner)? I guess I'd pick the easy way, too, if I were scum. Let me finish reading up but I'm interested to see how many of these bullets are parrots off of others. Also, you're scumreading me after I scumread you. Convenient. More to follow after reading Celestial's case against me and everything after. | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
On January 07 2015 01:51 Tubesock wrote: Ah, I see our differences. I tend to disregard to some extent a person's first few posts. You appear to keep an even weighting on all of them. I do want to point out that you had 3-4 posts that were just about rsoultin's gender, or SC2 mafia or whatever. If I said them I think you would have scummed me even worse. Yet, I really only had the 1 post you didn't like, and it still pertained to the current game. But anyway, I do think you're town even if we don't agree on your town reads so much although we do agree on the scums. I don't want to criticize someone for being on one of my possible shenany wagons. If I pushed him off, wouldn't that make it more likely that if shenanies occured it wouldn't be on one of my preferred wagons? In retrospect, I should have absolutely moved to The Shining. Absolutely. I felt there was 0 chance waffle would flip town. The only two people who explicitly mentioned not moving from a claim were from 2 of my other scum reads. That didn't exactly instill a motivation to move. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On January 09 2015 12:15 Half the Sky wrote: The only question I have at this point in time for you is to confirm your scumreads and/or nulls. You said a number of people were being scummy in a recent post. I know you are scumreading Celestial and LS possibly but whom else? Tonight I am able to stay up a bit late until 4am, or another 45 mins, so if either you have something for me, please let me know. I'm off work tomorrow thank goodness. I'm actually doing vote analysis right now and comparing people's reads/reactions to their post-lynch explanations. To be honest, I'm struggling with paranoia...and uncertainty on whether or not decisions were made because of people being new, or because they were scum. My only strong town read right now is you...which at this point in the game I think is rather sad. A few others I'm not interested in lynching right now, but bah. Preliminary...Gumdrop, Celestial...still deciding on JarJar, Shining, LS whether I think they're scum or just bear closer watching. Silver is a null for me cause she's just a general question mark this game. Tube is null cause some things I find weird, but I can see him being super tunneled cause we all suffer from it sometimes and his posts do read that way...his posting has been pretty good, too. So null. But this is all just preliminary. I'll have something more concrete waiting for you (and everyone else) when you wake up. | ||
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Tubesock
United States2726 Posts
The nested quote above is a quote responding to Celestials Jarjar vote. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On January 09 2015 12:21 The Shining wrote: If ties end in no lynch, you'd vote either WW or myself in order to ensure a town mislynch. I'm positive that ties end in a lynch on the first individual to have received that number of votes. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On January 09 2015 12:24 rsoultin wrote: Silver is a null for me cause she's just a general question mark this game. [...] But this is all just preliminary. I'll have something more concrete waiting for you (and everyone else) when you wake up. Thank you. That works. And also regarding Silver, I want to ask you the same thing I asked Shining (by mistake) and JJB, as a very new player who may not have played Mafia, unfamiliar with these premises, do you have any criteria for evaluating her? | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
As Silver is a very new player....do you have any criteria for evaluating her? The question was on Silverarte, not JJB. | ||
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The Shining
United States2406 Posts
On January 09 2015 12:27 Half the Sky wrote: I'm positive that ties end in a lynch on the first individual to have received that number of votes. I am aware of this, that's what Celestial was asking for clarification on. What I was saying was, hypothetically, if ties ended in no lynch instead of WW still being lynched for getting to 4 first, Celestial's vote would not have stayed on Jar Jar if someone voted me and tied. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
She's brand new to mafia. Her very first game. I'm just treating her as an inactive right now because I can't get anything from an AFK vote anyway and she's posted so little. Regardless, she's definitely not in my top scumreads that would make her a potential lynch tomorrow unless everyone goes stark raving mad and decides to vote you and ExO as scum or something. Then I'd be willing to settle on just about anyone else lol ><. | ||
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