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Vivax, thanks for the insight. The other thing I didn't understand was him saying Kush is pro-town, but then he turns around and says "shoot Kush" a few times or something like that.
Also agreed that what you said on Bats makes sense. Damdred pointed out earlier that Bats had to backtrack on something he said earlier...
On December 09 2014 10:03 batsnacks wrote:
Damdred I went back and looked and it looks like HTS and vivax have similar stances. For reasons I'm having trouble explaining, I thought HTS was scummy and I thought vivax was null. Maybe it's how they explained it. Vivax was more explicit.
There's like 4 people I want to vote right now though.
And I originally voted NB for the useless bra discussion.
Curious to see what Damdred has to say on this now, when he can.
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EBWOP - Just saw Damdred's post on hospital - I hope you are recovering well. Please take care of yourself.
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On December 10 2014 08:25 batsnacks wrote:
I caught up. Time for a blind list post without reviewing anything:
No Lynch
Xatalos
Koshi
HF
Damdred
FF
SL
oats
Hmmm, this was pretty early in D1, I see you, Bats, used justification for FF as being more memorable and before other people developed the opposite read on him. Has your view on FF changed any Bats? Why/why not?
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On December 12 2014 08:14 batsnacks wrote:
Kush
Ritoky
HF
probable scum team. Posting for cred.
Kush flipped Scrooge...
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Lightning: Definitely more involved in Student Mafia IV (the game just ended, so can talk more on that now) than he was this game and he rolled VT in that one. That game, I recall him and Bats going at it, I think he was at it with Vivax earlier in this game, but most of the posts appear anti-Vivax until the Xatalos case which I believe he said he didn't agree with anyhow. Thing is, I'm sure Oats has played more than 2 games, so do you have any normal games to work with from a meta standpoint?
Going to read all the filters of all who died if I can get any new insight, although some of the ones already cited I had scumlisted anyhow.
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Thanks LS. Bookmarked for after I get through the rest of the deceased's filters.
So much reading, at least I know what I'll be doing on my commute tomorrow.
Vivax - to add, Damdred's top scum reads were Froggy, FF, Bats (I think he's made him more null since though) and then Ritoky. Also didn't like OWS's passivity at EoD, which I don't think others were impressed with either. Also said OWS's posts hit him the wrong way.
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Re-read Ritoky from the time I discussed his play with Damdred. Vivax mentioned earlier lack of followup with Froggy, which he quoted. Damdred earlier mentioned lack of followup as well when I asked about Ritoky. I still think he takes HF's posts out of context though I recall HF saying he didn't agree with the case on Xatalos so there was no need for him to push Xatalos from his perspective. This adds to even further suspicion on Ritoky on top of what else has been gathered. Also read Hearthstone mafia and Ritoky's point doesn't make any sense on HF - HF gameplay here is different from that game. I don't understand the read development there.
Definitely scum-like.
OWS looks even worse to me after reading his EoD comments which is inconsistent with the vote on Xatalos. Also not sure where the LoneMeow comment came from, and then LM flips town.
Tubesock: I played with Sicklucker last game. He is erratic at times, but his scum-hunting behaviour last game is similar to this game. Similar behaviour then and now. He's good in my book.
Looking through the links that LS gave me on Oats and seeing if I can get anything out of it before I have to head to bed. Based on his play in Student Mafia IV alone though, Oats isn't looking too good either, but I'm going to read for a more comprehensive look.
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GB, you misunderstood. Ritoky used HF's play in Hearthstone Mafia as a valid comparison for scumlisting HF. The point was on HF's gameplay, not Ritoky's.
I am not using meta to scumread Ritoky. I am reading Ritoky's filter and seeing holes in his argument against HF.
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On December 12 2014 10:37 ritoky wrote:
have you played with HF before when he is scum?
i was masoned with him when he was scum in HS mafia, i got to see how he works behind the scenes a bit, this is HF mafia.
No I haven't, but upon reading Hearthstone, his behaviour/posting in that game is a more choppy compared to the way he's picking out things here and fleshing things out. This is why I don't understand your comparison of him. But more of an issue to me is that you also accused him of not pushing Xatalos etc when he already explained why he wasn't doing it. He said he didn't even agree with the case on Xatalos so how are you expecting him to push Xatalos?
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On December 12 2014 10:50 Holyflare wrote:
He talked about me not pushing bunnies adequately (haha) not xata.
On December 11 2014 12:41 ritoky wrote:
she made 3 pages worth of posts, actually, so yes she made quite a few. I believe that's over 40 posts to respond to, so your exaggerating and laughing, but actually you're just lying and implying she didn't post a lot or a lot of substance. if she is your top scum read, 3 posts to push and develop your read seems shallow at best; especially with your standards. hell you devoted the same or more posts in the same time frame to reading vivax, kels, and xat; who you didn't push on at all. and i disagree that any of what you said regarding kita's stuff is original, it is all sheep.
That is the quote I was referring to, unless you understood him differently.
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On December 12 2014 10:50 sicklucker wrote:
do we even know theres 5 mafia?
Unless I misunderstood the rules, I didn't think we had our hands on a hard number for sure.
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2am...FML. Good night, will continue on this around lunchtime or so. LS, I will remember to follow up on Oats, but I'd say for now, it's not looking good. He just seemed way more involved.
Rasputin, since you're here, can you give a comparison of Oats' gameplay as you know it versus what we're seeing now, (or if you have an opinion, then what?) we are trying to see if we can compare playstyles and get something alignment indicative. My opinion from SMIV is that it's not looking good, but this isn't a mini game either. LS gave a load of links to go through a few pages ago.
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Tubesock, I know you have a load of crazy posts, but you at least answer
1) why you thought there was only 5 mafia (as far as I can tell you haven't really answered Templar's question)
2) your read on Vivax - you call him scum for suggesting the vig kill Alakaslam but don't have any further support?
Lightning, I read further on 3 of the links you gave on Oats, and while he is less involved this game generally speaking in comparison, what is bothering me more is that this game he's going off Froggy a second day for mostly null posts. D1 was acceptable as a pressure vote since I've seen this done in Student Mafia IV by other town, but today, we have 2-3 cases floating, a possible scumslip (Tubesock) and he's still going after a null at best.
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Oats is definitely not the lynch today. I did read the first scum link and ironically he's more involved in that scum game - actually way more involved in that game than he is now. So damn, not indicative on meta alone. The current game behaviour is what is concerning and IMO should override meta.
I re-read everything from Ritoky's onwards from the time I went to bed, and I'm trying to picture in what universe a town would do something like this even to bait since we don't want to make it easier for scum to take out town power roles. We're hosed for KP, there's too many flaws in Ritoky's defence from last night, I don't like Tube's scumslip (I don't know how anyone can take his quoted post out of context) but Ritoky is an even higher risk.
##vote Ritoky
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Bats, if you're going to make a case on anyone using meta, I would think reading filters would be required, otherwise your case is going nowhere.
GB: I don't understand the logic of mass claiming. Based on N1, we're sure they have Mass Murderer, likely the Branch Manager is out there too. Not sure about their RB or City Banker.
What good does it do for our key power roles (i.e. Santa) to claim? Is there something with the mechanics you're seeing I'm not?
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Xatalos, I looked over your explanation:
On December 13 2014 04:00 Xatalos wrote:
2) If he's town, there are two plausible scenarios. Either he's A) fakeclaiming having opened the present and actually planning to pass it on while eating a KP/RB or B) actually opened the present and still wanting to eat a KP/RB. Option A seems to make much more sense as town, but naturally he wouldn't want to admit that now if possible. Option B is a bit stupid, since he could get all the benefits of option B without actually wasting the present with option A, but I don't think it's all that implausible either. As a solo town player he wouldn't have the scumteam coaching him and his judgment may have been faulty. That at least seems more likely than him doing this play as scum with a whole team coaching him.....
I'm thinking the mechanics through with the present, do you really think a scumteam would believe what he had or would they just try and continue to rolehunt?
Also I'm just trying to understand why any town would claim any present period (and especially what Ritoky has claimed) when scum have the advantage in KP (across all nights, not just the one night the present is used) and I would imagine the proportion of blue roles to VTs/named VTs is still small.
Absolutely I agree Tube is scum and he needs to go at this point, but I think a few of us were worried about that extra KP.
I just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly.
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Alright, I see what you are saying now. First paragraph, I mainly was trying to think of him doing this from both sides
(town and scum) and how the other side would react. But you are right, scum have a lot less to gain and a lot more to lose. It is possible he could have made an honest mistake with claiming too.
Since Tubesock is the most likely scum given the slip, I'll go ahead and change my vote. I've had FF scumlisted for awhile given the inconsistencies, not answering the questions (as I cited before) and continued apathy, but Tube is definitely the better lynch at this point. He still hasn't explained that post.
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On December 13 2014 05:17 sicklucker wrote:
also its kind of nice that ritoky claimed kp. If he ever uses it we should know. And then we get a 1for1 mafia trade. More reason not to vote him out
I don't know if we have a vigilante (I can't tell if Kush was killed by vig or Marley??), but if we're sure FF is scum, and we have the extra kp, we should probably use it on FF.
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On December 13 2014 05:26 sicklucker wrote:
That being said people were pushing are vig to shoot kush and he might have believed them... Someone with posts left should probably integrate these people because their logic is so bad its mind boggling.
Since you asked:
Page 72 of the thread - the following advocated to shoot Kush: Koshi (several times), Xatalos, Batsnacks.
Fecalfeast was saying we should have lynched Kush instead of 27NB.
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Filter diving now...and imagining a world where Holyflare is scum.
Offhand, the one thing that jumped out at me in my interactions with him was him asking me why I should ask Ritoky for the Hearthstone mafia link, though he did provide it himself - I just wanted to see Ritoky's support for his meta case against HF since I'd never played with HF. It just seemed overall weird that HF would question that from me. But I didn't think too much beyond that.
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EPT
