EPTEdit: Though new to TL, I've posted a bit on LD forums and saw the post for this game there, also played many versions of this game on other forums, looking forward to playing TL-style.
Student Mafia IV (New/Newish Players Welcome)
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Edit: Though new to TL, I've posted a bit on LD forums and saw the post for this game there, also played many versions of this game on other forums, looking forward to playing TL-style. | ||
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On November 19 2014 05:35 Blazinghand wrote: Out of thread communication: It is common for mafia to use a medium outside of TL such as QuickTopics or IRC to communicate during the game. Players who have not explicitly been given permission to communicate outside the thread are not allowed to attempt to infiltrate such communication channels. Players who are not mafia are not allowed to communicate about this game outside of the thread. PMs PMs and out of thread communication are not allowed in this game, unless your role explicitly allows them. I hope I don't get e-strangled for asking this but after reading the rules 2-3 times, I have two questions for clarity: 1 Regarding out of thread comms for the good guys, particularly the cop and the tracker, if especially the cop confirms one of the other key roles (or even if he confirms a vanilla), this means he basically is stuck trying to align with them in the open without giving him/herself away and cannot communicate with them privately any sort of strategy? 2 The town doctor. Is there any penalty for the doctor if he visits a bad guy at night (assuming the bad guys elect to kill someone else)? It does not say either way but just to confirm... Thanks. | ||
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 Three baddies out of 13...should be a fun ride. | ||
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On November 25 2014 07:23 Breshke wrote: Looks like we found our d1 lynch already ##Vote: Sicklucker Are you voting him down because he's serious and just trolling or because you're a baddie trying to lynch a good guy? Granted this is my first ever TLM game so you probably know this lad more than I do...just saying. I can read that either way. | ||
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On November 25 2014 07:33 Breshke wrote: [...] why did he feel the need to say that he was town and then why if he is town is he afking? As town you need to try find out peoples alignments so you want to post more ask questions w/e as scum you have no need for that. I am also seeing if he actually went afk or not. Alright, fair play. I had thought for some reason he was a vet who was just bored, and then seeing your last post, checked the list and no he's not a vet, so I stand corrected. I guess I'll be keeping a similar eye on him, and based on his reaction will vote accordingly. Although if he actually is town and trolling, he's not really helping his/our case. I agree, it is an eager time to vote him down now, but if he is town, that's exactly what the baddies want. Easy targets... So sicklucker, what's the deal? | ||
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Regarding my post, I wasn't siding with anybody. Day 1, I feel it is too quick to accuse someone, so I was calling into question Breshke's vote approx 30 mins into Day 1, as it was pretty quick and I had made an incorrect assumption on sicklucker's experience with TLM, to which I thought Breshke's rationale (in his second post) made sense. | ||
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In response to Breshke's vote - I actually did take that seriously, which is why I posted the way I did. I have no idea how anyone plays here, SL included. That said, most of my posts were in the first (approx) 2h, with not a lot to go off of. That's why I phrased things the way I did. Yes, I found both SL's and Breshke's posts odd, which is why I reacted the way I did. Since Breshke actually voted, I called it into question....okay, so I need to fix my sense of sarcasm. From other mafia games I've played when someone votes so quickly like, the first thing that I think of is that someone is trying to start a lynch mob. The best I could do when the game started was try and reason as best as I could through what everyone was posting. I am not scum, and nor is my intention to confuse anyone. I was just trying to think things through. | ||
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Breshke - Leaning town, now that I understand his vote to be a joke vote. sicklucker - Not sure. His subsequent posts were okay, but I still don't understand what he was trying to do with the whole afk thing. LS, alaka and DSMI - Nulls, couldn't tell either way. Bats - I don't like the timing of the policy vote, I could understand if it were closer to the deadline but not now. Both him and kush are veterans, and enough veterans in the game to take note if kush had afked more. Vote on Oats looks like retaliation. Grasping for straws? Oats - Town lean so far. TLDR: Nothing strong on anyone. The SL AFK and the policy vote timing/explanation are what aren't sitting right with me at the moment. | ||
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On November 26 2014 02:23 sicklucker wrote: His vote was not a joke. He just played the I want to get him talking card after I started talking and he looked bad I got the impression it was from: On November 25 2014 14:07 Trfel wrote: I was thinking that sicklucker seemed suspicious due to the "trap" at the start of the game, as well as the way he turned on Breshke for the early vote. Clearly the vote wasn't a serious vote, therefore it isn't rushed or hasty. On November 25 2014 14:07 Trfel wrote: Obviously Breshke's vote was to force sicklucker back into the game, and was never a truly serious lynch vote (except a potential policy lynch). Maybe "joke" wasn't the right word here (especially in comparison to Alakaslam), but the point still stands. I know Breshke rescinded his vote but it didn't appear to be scum like. | ||
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On November 26 2014 02:39 sicklucker wrote: Him rescinding doesint mean much to me. I defended myself very well and even had a pregame set plan that I pulled. Its more mafia if anything. Well I look at his posts again and I have to think "would a reasonable person call into question someone who's just going to afk" like that? I saw your pre-game post, fine. But my thinking was that you still could not have chosen to do that once the day began and that's how I was seeing him coming from. I had zero knowledge of how either of you play the game. The manner in which he did was reasonable. On November 25 2014 08:58 Breshke wrote: You said you were going afk, as either allighnment this isnt good because it means i couldn't get a read off you. Im not sure who the question about me making quick reads is directed at but tell me, if i normally dont make quick reads what do you think of my allighnment? Same as if i do. I don't see where your questions are leading to. ##Unvote And you have all of one game experience with him. I just don't think there's a red flag here. I also don't see evidence of him holding a grudge from one game, not like Kush/Bats. | ||
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On November 26 2014 06:35 batsnacks wrote: How is meatpudding trolling though? I think he means this quote, nothing else in the filtered comments comes close. On November 25 2014 08:27 meatpudding wrote: Student mafia, eh.... Did you know? Sperm whales have the largest brain of any animal. | ||
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Alakaslam is still coming in null for me, there was a lot of fluff in his posts, though he did make some decent points. Batsnacks had been my most likely candidate for scum mainly because of the policy vote on kush without any hard justification under 24h of the game starting, that's just a huge cop-out IMO, not even considering the lack of reads, when you put that and Trfl's post together, it just looks really bad. Also coming in on the scum side is Damdred. Kush cited his tone, but it's not even his tone that bothers me, it's the sheer number of questions he throws at people to come up and/or press opinion. Meta or no meta, and regardless of who he's inquiring on, asking/pushing that many questions on anyone strikes me as grasping for straws. Other people here are questioning but he is just head and shoulders out there. A distraction? I used the filter to count the number of questions he's putting out to people and I counted 16 questions, 14 of which were to pull opinions on two individuals (SL and myself). Both sicklucker and DSMI (twice) call him on this behaviour, so I know I'm not the only one that found this method strange. On November 25 2014 09:28 Dicksmash McIroncock wrote: Thats bullshit Everypost I made in this entire thread was about those two players. Its like your posting to make yourself look good while adding nothing. i kinda agree with this.[/QUOTE] On November 25 2014 09:34 Dicksmash McIroncock wrote: and damdred dont you think you might just be finding reasons to find sick funny at this point? For comparison's sake Oats has also filtered that many questions, if not more, but the difference here is that his questioning is not focused entirely at/on/about 1-2 individuals, many of them he asks for explanations and just asks multiple people "who is scum" etc. Being new to this community, I waited to see if it was just him or if this type of questioning was the norm with all the veterans here, and clearly that's not the case. Also him suggesting to policy vote LS doesn't sit well with me either. On November 26 2014 05:35 Damdred wrote: LS I have no clue hes not doing much but he didn't do much in the last game he played either, he would be a plynch basically i'll have to reread him soon as i'm done with prep. LS has been contributing to the discussion, how he reads what is going on. Excluding LS's last post, since Damdred drew this thought before that, take LS's remaining posts; in comparison it's quite arguable that DSMI and Meatpudding would be more liable for policy at this point than LS. No, none of them had been posting often but the latter two have less substance/reads/analysis than LS and LS posted more recently than those two. My vote is a tossup at this point between Bats and Damdred with DSMI/Meat not far behind on the lack of substance altogether, the latter two would be a policy vote if nothing came out from them. Trfel if you've played with Damdred, can you shed more light on his meta? | ||
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On November 26 2014 09:18 meatpudding wrote: Ok, here's where I stand right now. If you're name's not on the list then consider it a null read for the time being. Marry Breshke Bang HTS Trfel Kill Damdred sicklucker I am not familiar with this terminology. I assume you mean kill is like a lynch/scum vote. but what is "marry" and "bang"? Also taking note of your inquiry, on kush, he did not strike me one way or another going through the thread, but let me filter and pull together his posts for a better read. | ||
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On November 26 2014 09:48 rsoultin wrote: And the timing today...that's what really has me suspicious. Got a good reason for that? Actually I can think of one (a bit coincidental but still) but I'll leave it to him to defend himself. Meatpudding, I'm going to put the TLDR version regarding kush as it's late here, but I will add more in the morning. Most of kush's posts, when aggregated, are coming off as trolling, fluff, very terse statements. It could be his style or he could just try and create confusion. (Can another veteran please elaborate?) In his defence, he does explain on his phone his rationale for some of his reads, I don't agree with all of them, but they are otherwise reasonable arguments. I'm going to say null for now, but in need of more information to be conclusive. | ||
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On November 26 2014 09:52 Trfel wrote: Instead of nitpicking, you seem to be mostly doing nothing. I'm glad that you are finally making a defense, but this is (I believe) the third time you have been asked for one. And you still haven't provided any real scum reads. ##Vote: batsnacks I'd vote Bats at this point, but since I'm equally convinced on Damdred, I'm going to wait for the latter's defence before I vote in the morning one way or another. (It doesn't appear I can vote for both in one night.) | ||
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To sum it up, it's about quality IMO and not quantity. Going through the last five pages now that have mostly transpired in my sleep... | ||
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Rsoultin - Some reads, some questioning, short filter, but not a lot if any spam. No red flags. After 22 pages, I hope he can come up with more reads, there's way more to work with now. LS - Same as Rsoultin, some reads, and very short filter, no noise, but with 22 pages, again, more input would be appreciated. Alakaslam - About as close as it gets to coasting, dropped in once, had a few minor points, but was largely spam and a joke vote. Concurrent game participation is NOT an excuse - Damdred and SL are in the same game as he is, and they have contributed at least twice as much this game. Likely scum. Meatpudding - 24h gap alone isn't cause for concern, particularly as people have posted less. Some reads are better explained than others, but his calling out of SL makes complete sense. Nothing here really is indicating scum. Null to slight town lean. Kush - No real red flags so far. Some decent reads, called DSMI for his tactics, thinking seems to be townie aligned. Batsnacks - Premature vote on kush, whether you want to define it as pressure or policy, it was way too early to be doing that (8 hours into the game), even if you knew his meta. Adding to that is a lack of reads, a vote for DSMI without explanation and the one of us is dead comment, those last two things don't add up. The policy vote was my biggest problem with him before Trfel even pulled what he did. Oats argument was a weak defence, and I'm not seeing a meta argument anywhere for his behaviour aside from the kush vote. Overall there's too much wrong with Bats to not vote him down. My views on him were scum, but the DSMI vote only reinforces that. SL - First, there was the afk thing at the off, got him nowhere, posts through page 17 are mostly answers to questions, some observations. But post page 17 is what gets me. There's not a lot of original thought in his posts, particularly with casting suspicion on Damdred, and didn't have many reads on more than the 3 players he marked for scum. In fact, most of his discussion is noise or focused on the same three players. I'm not sure why he made Breskhe null and then scumlisted, explanation wasn't very clear at all there. Breskhe - Not posting much, but posts are mostly of substance. No red flags here. Oats - Tunneling on Bats is problematic, even if it was initially justified. Could provide a few more reads, but most of his posts seem town-aligned. Yes there is nitpicking, but the points presented have been valid. I don't agree with LS being scum, not yet, but I understand why he's made that point. Even if I were to play devil's advocate and suspect Oats of being scum, it's not anywhere near as strong as Bats and Damdred. Damdred - I'd like to see Oats' reasoning for calling Damdred scum, but on my end we have the excessive questioning at the beginning of the game and the LS policy vote suggestion, he gives a few reads but drops off with the exception of going toe-to-toe with Oats, which isn't bad in of itself. I believe SL and someone else has called him out too, and I don't see any defence as of page 18. DSMI - massive gap in posting though latter posts have been somewhat okay even if I don't agree with some of his points, although the Bats vote appeared to be a bandwagon vote. Null. Nothing strong. Alakaslam is liable for a (lurker) policy vote at this point with just over 6h remaining, SL is all over the place, but at this point, the overwhelming pile is on Batsmacks. ##Vote Batsnacks | ||
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On November 26 2014 21:33 meatpudding wrote: And yeah while it seems bats hasn't done that much, it looks like he's trolling. It doesn't come off as townie but I'm still not feeling scum here. Anyway I'm not trying to defend bats at all so whatever. My problem with trolling (anyone, not just Bats) is that it's noise, it's not productive and creates confusion for townies, especially in a (relative) newcomers' game. | ||
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On November 27 2014 01:33 kushm4sta wrote: I have no idea when EoD is. 10pm GMT/5pm EST, so just north of 5h. | ||
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I'm looking at his post-page 18 activity and he has been putting out some substance though it could be supported better. He did have a bandwagon bats vote... ...but if you are looking to policy vote ANYONE at this point, you guys should be going after Alakaslam, not DSMI. After page 18, DSMI isn't a policy vote in my book. On November 27 2014 01:35 kushm4sta wrote: dicksmash lynch doubles as a plynch. so we will be in a good position even if he's town. What do I mean? I mean that he is going to be a big unknown all game due to his lack of activity and not giving a fuck. Unlike someone like bats or oats, who can prove themselves town later in the game. Fair point, but can you (or anyone) distinguish between him and Alakaslam? | ||
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On November 27 2014 01:33 kushm4sta wrote: Batsnacks is way too active to lynch d1. The truth is that it's rare that someone is going to have strong reads d1, so you can't fault batsnacks for that. He has been promoting discussion and had a huge presence in the thread. You don't ever lynch someone like that d1. I believe his issue is not the quantity of posts, it's the quality of them. In my case, I had a problem with the voting. Also, in your history of playing this game how often does a scum player try and be overly active so that focus is off of him later on? | ||
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Newbie question - no-vote/sleep same as abstain right? If not how are they different? On November 25 2014 13:03 Blazinghand wrote: You are allowed to vote for a no-lynch. On November 26 2014 08:10 Blazinghand wrote: Vote Count Oatsmaster (1): batsnacks batsnacks (1): Oatsmaster Dicksmash Mcironcock (1): kushm4sta Not Voting (10): Half the Sky, Breshke, rsoultin, Trfel, sicklucker, LightningStrike, Meatpudding, Damdred, Alakaslam, Dicksmash McIroncock Currently, Oatsmaster is set to be lynched. Day 1 ends in at 22:00 GMT (+00:00). Reminder to make sure to unvote before voting, if you have already voted someone. Remember, voting is Mandatory. You may NOT abstain. Cheers. | ||
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On November 27 2014 02:10 LightningStrike wrote: I going with kush and say lynch Dicksmash since I think he the better person to lynch due to his very little substance posting as seem in his filter to not helping us so it might be a good indication of him being being scum or a noob town but this was the same I was lynched in my last game and I turned out to be the Town Cop. LS, check page 1. DSMI is not in the noob category. You were last game and this game. You cannot compare the two situations. Kush, I went through his filter again, and now your arguments are making a lot more sense. I checked the filter against the sequence of his reads/explanations versus others for the same individuals and there is a lot of bandwagoning. Too much for his own good this late in the day. I'm still not feeling too good about Batsnacks though, ignoring any meta. I would be lying if I said otherwise. ##Unvote ##Vote Dicksmash McIroncock | ||
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On November 27 2014 04:32 sicklucker wrote: votes in 2 hours and thirty minutes I think can we get a votecount? Catching up I want to say 5 for DSMI, 1 each for Alakaslam and Batsnacks, but I could be wrong. | ||
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I'm going to check now, since I am probably going to bed right around the deadline time. | ||
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DSMI (4) - Kush, Damdred, Lightning, myself Batsnacks (3) - Oats, Trfel, DSMI Trfel (1) - Batsnacks Rsoultn (1) - sicklucker Sicklucker (1) - Meatpudding Alakaslam (1) - Rsoultn I stand corrected. | ||
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On November 27 2014 04:41 sicklucker wrote: Ya dont vote slam. Hes been pretty inactive in the other game too. Ill be able to read him well after mafia reading him so easy I think. same with damdred. They will also be great town assets if they are. Are people policy voting him in the other game? | ||
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On November 27 2014 05:21 rsoultin wrote: Mods, he voted for Dick. Just saying. I sent both PMs. Hopefully they will see it as it's very close. | ||
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Breshke being Aussie has a timezone disadvantage, so if he votes, will be forced to vote last minute. And Alakaslam has been inactive so who knows if he'll vote. | ||
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Damdred if I recall used a meta argument against DSMI. | ||
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This is the post I was referring to, to when which SL said you had convinced him. On November 27 2014 05:08 Damdred wrote: Meta cases are weird in the fact that they look Amazing, and really shows effort put in by the person who did it but doesn't take into account changing game play and the way the person is choosing to play the game you are in currently. If you compare Bats earlier games Mission Mafia, Storm, Neat and Tidy, Cell, Titanic. You will see A HUGE disparity in the way he plays. I am always suspicious of batsnacks though because we have such a good history together and I think his scum game and his town game can be similar depending on the amount of time he puts in. Thats just the thing about Meta cases though they can be wrong and can be right This second point isn't right at all, I even quoted myself when I questioned Dicksmash and he never answered me at all. I never said who my scum leans were and Bresh was the only person to inquire which I just now got around to answering part of hat question and of course I can't go extremely in depth like I want on my phone thats just silly reasoning there. | ||
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On November 27 2014 02:21 kushm4sta wrote: The keyword is DOUBLES. As in he's a good scumlynch as well as plynch. Alaka would be a better pure plynch sure, but Dicksmash has scummy content as well. Dicksmash shows a need to survive. Earlier he came into the thread and tried to give some content. This reasoning is generic bullshit. He's voting batsnacks for 1 fluidity of reads - which is common d1 2 not posting reads or reasoning - which other people have been worse about, plus is not even really true His batsnacks vote is bullshit. On November 27 2014 03:05 Half the Sky wrote: LS, check page 1. DSMI is not in the noob category. You were last game and this game. You cannot compare the two situations. Kush, I went through his filter again, and now your arguments are making a lot more sense. I checked the filter against the sequence of his reads/explanations versus others for the same individuals and there is a lot of bandwagoning. Too much for his own good this late in the day. I'm still not feeling too good about Batsnacks though, ignoring any meta. I would be lying if I said otherwise. ##Unvote ##Vote Dicksmash McIroncock I took what kush said and tested it using the filter against the arguments he presented. It fell in line, which is why I was convinced enough to change the vote. | ||
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On November 27 2014 08:37 Damdred wrote: I'm confused dwhat your talking about in that post i was referring to the meta case on bats which is a meta case while the case i put forward was a case on in game actions. If it's not that post then it's probably this one. On November 27 2014 04:48 Damdred wrote: Sure this is why i'm picking Dicksmash over everyone else today Basically he starts out the game instead of inquiring what SL means and what information he has gathered about the Breske, he immediately colors i as scum and infers something that just isn't true at this point. Hes not gathering information and throwing crap on people. Cool you agree with SL about my line of questioning thats actually OK at this point until, He seems to be siding with SL at first against my barrage of questions hat i'm throwing at SL in pressure, but instead of pressuring me and my motives he shifts his pressure back to SL and finally back to me without actually inquiring about my read of SL is. He stays in the middle and never commits to the read and he never follows up his quesion in fact he dodges the questions posed to him at this point He never revisits this point and never follows up any of his questions early on just leaves them fluttering in the air, it looks like he is doing things but not really doing things at all. Makes excuses and his reads are laregly unsubstantiated Easy to back out of read with oh i jus made a mistake, and he can't quote but he wants to say that he just thinks its bad basically. Doesn't read the thread but has time to directly read bats filter? What is this? He scumreads Sl, he doesn't even call bats scum he just votes him? 10 minutes ago hes barely read any of the thread and hes had time to filter dive someone call someone else scum but doesn't vote the scummy person? Wha? pretty wishy washy post Goes back on his SL is scum read to just say he feels slippery at this point which is odd Then theres this post, not sure what you are doing here but trying to say voting lots is scummy? Overall I think dicksmash is scum. His reads are pretty flimsy and easy to back out of, he has little to no follow up with the questions he asked and dodged several peoples questions. He has only became active now since he is up for lynch today, he throws dirt on people to see what can stick and his scum read on SL went into the ether and he voted on someone he never called scum till later instead of his scum read at that second. This guy is pretty scummy The result of which.... On November 27 2014 05:24 sicklucker wrote: ##un vote ##vote Dicksmash McIroncock Holy shit damdred convinced me. I dont think he could as mafia. I dont like the bats vote. All I'm trying to do here is support that your argument - whatever it was - convinced SL. | ||
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On November 27 2014 08:31 rsoultin wrote: Because SL says I am and SL thinks his shit don't stink -amused- As an aside, if town jumps on a townie (nearly inevitable in Day 1 lynch) mafia wouldn't need to push after it hard. Their only concern should be protecting their own team. Means the pushers aren't necessarily mafia. To assume they are is to go down a rabbit trail. There was no reason not to push Dick. We can agree on that, I hope. Whether or not there was a better choice is up for debate, so why don't we take a look back and see if we still think those people are scum? That seems far more productive than this. Anyone still thinking Bats looks good for it? Well reasons were brought up for voting Bats to begin with - to simplify we have the voting and what he did with the voting, and second the argument that Trfel used with his behaviour. Using your theory, let's test what you said, and see if we can answer the question - what did bats do when everyone piled on DSMI? Well for starters he left his last vote on Trfel, mainly to prove a point I think, and then he fades out. This is my reference point - kush's initial call on Bats: On November 27 2014 01:33 kushm4sta wrote: I have no idea when EoD is. Dicksmash has got to go. His recent scumreads are really unconvincing and the reasoning he uses is generic and superficial. VOTE DICKSMASH PEOPLE. Batsnacks is way too active to lynch d1. The truth is that it's rare that someone is going to have strong reads d1, so you can't fault batsnacks for that. He has been promoting discussion and had a huge presence in the thread. You don't ever lynch someone like that d1. Oats, you should know that. And that's what makes me worry about you. Examining the posts where Batsmacks posted AFTER kush made his initial charge: (top of page 23) On November 27 2014 01:37 batsnacks wrote: Kush damd bat ultimate team On November 27 2014 01:42 batsnacks wrote: I've given more reads than you.  On November 27 2014 01:49 batsnacks wrote: What's fishy about it? Why does changing my vote make me mafia? On November 27 2014 01:50 batsnacks wrote: ##unvote ##vote Trfel Look, I changed my vote again. It's really easy. On November 27 2014 02:04 batsnacks wrote: I'm missing how you think me changing my vote is pushing a mafia agenda. On November 27 2014 02:08 batsnacks wrote: Trfel if you're town, how is me voting dicksmash hurting you? On November 27 2014 02:13 batsnacks wrote: We're doomed All those quotes were page 23. He has nothing from page 24 onwards through the lynch. And Bats didn't push DSMI much, did he? | ||
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Let's see what I can get through over lunch... | ||
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On November 27 2014 17:43 Trfel wrote: So I still think that batsnacks is mafia for the reasons I (and several others) have mentioned many times. My opinion also remains unchanged, filtered comments post-lynch is mostly spam. Answered a few questions on Kush but I don't see anything to indicate town in the slight. Damdred drew scumlike behaviour well before the lynch, which I'd already addressed and then fell off before the bandwagon vote came rolling. I'm going to take a closer look at his filter regarding the points Trfel brought up. It just seems weird how he dropped off (timewise) and then voted DSMI before his explanation. Even with Kush providing the initial explanation, regardless of where Kush stands himself, it just struck me as opportunistic. Alakaslam...I don't like the way he's playing at all. I really don't. Now I'll discount today since it's a major holiday for the US and I assume he's US, but prior to now, he's too much of a coaster. I also didn't like how he voted for himself when the rules clearly state you cannot. He's still a policy vote in my opinion. Filtered SL...I don't really know what to make of this lad...if he's town, I can think of some rational explanations as to why he's acting this way. I do not know his meta, although Breshke said he was equally erratic in the last game too. Looking for contradictions, but I mostly see emotional posting from him. Breshke still seems alright for me, I am not seeing any red flags with him. What he has said post-lynch is reasonable given the circumstances. | ||
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On November 27 2014 22:36 Breshke wrote: Also Trfel that is a big post. i will need to read it a couple more times when i wake up before I can look into the stuff you are putting forward because there is a lot to digest. The effort you go to with your posts and their flow reinforces my town read on you because I think you would be hard pressed to construct reads like these if you didn't truly believe them. I'm not sure why but your posts feel so emotionless to me though but i don't know if that is even relevant to anything. Agreed. He's been in my town pile awhile now. | ||
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On November 27 2014 22:46 Half the Sky wrote: It just seems weird how he dropped off (timewise) and then voted DSMI before his explanation. Even with Kush providing the initial explanation, regardless of where Kush stands himself, it just struck me as opportunistic. Since I didn't say this in my last post, the evidence to support this is in the timestamps. Trfel already pointed out. Kush's explanation and campaigning happens in 3 minutes (go to page 23 and view it, do not filter), with Damdred's vote happening. Look at when Damdred actually posts his explanation. It's not just later. More than 3h later. Trfel you mentioned the quality of Damdred's case, but even more detrimental is the timing. In that span LS and myself had changed our votes after some examination (at least on my end) and explanation from kush along with some back and forth on DSMI. As for me, I did not take any of Damdred's explanation into account when I voted, solely Kush, obviously the timing explains that. | ||
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On November 27 2014 23:08 Damdred wrote: Big posts=town is one of the worst reasons to town read someone ever you shouldn't do it I am filtering Trfel like I am everyone else. I am not seeing anything to indicate scum, his explanations are reasonable, justified and the support is there to back his statements. So far, anyways. | ||
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On November 28 2014 01:32 rsoultin wrote: Damdred, I was not asking why you were questioning sicklucker. Either you've forgotten you mentioned you thought HTS was scum, or you're dodging the question. Considering I could never find your reasoning for this read, that is concerning. Speaking of dodging, I presented my thoughts against him way back on page 16, and I have yet to see a defence. This isn't the first time. (NB: I will not hold him nor any American player accountable for any gaps in posting through the end of Night #1 given the holiday.) | ||
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On November 28 2014 03:34 batsnacks wrote: Calling sicklucker a "good guy" might indicate that HTS knows sicklucker is town, which only mafia would know, therefor TMI. But again I feel strongly about it. Context please. That was a theoretical. That doesn't mean I know who anyone was. I would have had the same reaction regardless of who was voting who. When I said that, that simply means that IF (in that case) Breshke (who voted SL) WAS a bad guy, he is obviously voting someone down who was not mafia. I questioned his motive with that theoretical. | ||
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On November 28 2014 03:16 rsoultin wrote: Mmmmm...that could just be cause he's new, the big posts. Honest question here - is there some sort of unwritten rule here against the sheer length of posts? I believe Bats and a few others have commented on this. Other forum mafia games, I've seen players get into a few thousand words with posts. Not regularly but it happens. | ||
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On November 28 2014 04:36 Damdred wrote: I do think half is scummy though over explained vote post few things earlier that were non commital and to agreeable I'll have to filter dive when I'm done here. Pot...kettle...black? I think you had the same argument with Oats, but your meta case and counter argument earlier I'm pretty sure was at least as twice as long as mine was. Not that post length should even be relevant, again it comes down to quality, I just find it ironic you're using those points to paint me (or anyone) as scum, when you are even more guilty/traceable to the same thing. | ||
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On November 28 2014 05:38 kushm4sta wrote: Way too much talking during night. Especially on thanksgiving. Stfu all of you. Not all of us are in the States...and as I said before, I'm not holding anything against the Americans skipping out Night 1. You lot enjoy yourselves. Our last bank holiday was in August, next one Christmas. :/ Back on topic, Trfel I don't have a problem with your post length, if your posts were full of it, regardless of length, I'd have called you on it ages ago. I do find that in general, bullet points help readability though. | ||
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(INSERT EXPLETIVES HERE.) Looks like the scum are running scared, and there's a reason for that. I just cannot believe how unlucky we have been though. Unbelievable. More filter diving to come... | ||
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On November 28 2014 02:50 batsnacks wrote: I think Trfel is pretty scummy actually. On November 28 2014 02:56 batsnacks wrote: Trfel writes these huge posts and I never finish reading them feeling like I've gained anything. I read his entire filter and the only thing I've taken away from it is that I'm mafia because meta, even though we've never played together, and damdred is my scum mate even though that makes zero sense. On November 28 2014 03:15 batsnacks wrote: I really don't think I've been scummy enough to warrant being the focus of every single one of Trfel's long winded posts. On November 28 2014 03:17 batsnacks wrote: Even his first post was about about me. He's gone into this game with the mindset of: Focus on bat, nothing more, nothing less, nothing else. He has provided evidence on others but Bats and Damdred have both given him the most amount of material to work with. Sticking on point (for now) with Bats: On November 28 2014 03:21 batsnacks wrote: Trfel said he agreed with the kush pressure. Then he said I was scummy for it: Make sure you compare bolded words. My interpretation of the above is that you are using the policy lynch discussion to distract from the real problem. That is a valid point. That is a scum behaviour. More unsupported attacks: On November 28 2014 04:54 batsnacks wrote: You know it's a problem when I don't feel like reading your posts because I already know everything I'm going to read will be useless and wrong and I won't remember any of it anyway. On November 28 2014 05:09 batsnacks wrote: A claim that's wrong is weak no matter how much "evidence" or "reasoning" you give. Yet Batsmacks is NOT saying WHY Trfel is wrong. On November 28 2014 07:26 batsnacks wrote: Everything SL is saying is so wrong. "More than 1/4 chance I'm mafia" where do you get this stuff? He's not refuting with support/evidence anyone (Trfel, SL, myself, whoever) who is pushing him. Again if you must, filter Batsmacks and read pages 4-6. On page 5, you will see the same type of unsubstantiated post again and again. Not much better on page 6. Finally, the anti-tunnel argument is getting old. We're aware there are three scum in the game. It is just that at present, you are providing most of the material to be working with. If you are innocent, then you need to start poking holes in any of the arguments presented, which you have failed to do so far. | ||
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On November 28 2014 07:58 batsnacks wrote: So what exactly are you trying to say HTS? Arguments that you are scum or at least exhibiting scum-like behaviour. But I have one last post since you had brought it up yourself (operative part in bold) - On November 28 2014 02:56 batsnacks wrote: Trfel writes these huge posts and I never finish reading them feeling like I've gained anything. I read his entire filter and the only thing I've taken away from it is that I'm mafia because meta, even though we've never played together, and damdred is my scum mate even though that makes zero sense. If we ignore the word "meta", the point still stands. He used a valid behaviour comparison from other games. (If you want, filter Trfel, go to page 1, about mid-way down  On November 26 2014 08:02 Trfel wrote: Now, examining batsnacks' mafia history, it seems to show similar, non-accusatory play as mafia, but an ability to logically provide arguments against people as town. In Fantasy Football Mafia Mini 2, his most recent mafia game, batsnacks was a mafia vanilla. His posts generally seem to lack content, for example this: batsnacks did give some analysis in saying that robik seemed to be town in that game, which ended up being correct. But he failed to provide specifics or any real evidence of this: He also defends Liam from an accusation. Up to now, the only two real things he's said are claiming these two people to be town. At this point he is accused of being mafia, and this is his defense: He continues to not provide any true defense or explanation for his actions, and ends up being lynched on the first day. In his mafia game before that, Fantasy Football (FFL) Mini, batsnacks is a town vanilla. batsnacks accuses Oatsmaster of being mafia in this game (which ends up being incorrect). But when he defends someone as being town, he provides some support for this claim, and also shares his views a bit. Here's a critical analysis of a post in that game. It doesn't result in anything, but this post has more logic and scum-searching than his play to this point in the current game, as well as his play in the first game I mentioned, where he was mafia. Then he claims Hopeless1der to be mafia, which ends up being correct. I don't see any reasoning listed, though. This post also came after the first 24 hours of the game, unlike all of the other posts quoted here. I did notice this inconsistency between his post in this game: and this: Why the change? Probably just a change in his playstyle, but another explanation is that he is searching for mafia in that game, and has less incentive to do so in this game. Looking at batsnacks' play in the game preceding the above game, 2p2 Vanilla Werewolf 13er, batsnacks immediately comes up with a comprehensive look at GlowingBear: He's clearly thinking and investigating the posts, and trying to find the scum. Then he starts thinking that SkyDragon is scum: He continues to press on GlowingBear and SkyDragon. Both end up being town, but batsnacks is showing that he is capable and willing to attempt to find scum and provide logical accusations that other players are scum. In conclusion, batsnacks seems very suspcious because he has not yet provided any real content, particularly at least one accusation of someone being mafia with an argument behind it. This resembles his play in his last game, where he was mafia, and contrasts with his play in previous games where he was town. What do you guys think? It's a pattern. Scum-like behaviour (I will avoid the "m" word) attached to the previous post I made. Posts that do not have evidence hard for anyone or refuting arguments made against you. It was indicative then, and it's showing again now. | ||
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On November 28 2014 08:13 batsnacks wrote: ##vote: Half the Sky I just filter dived you in my last two points (page 44, 2 posts top and bottom of page) and took point by point. I have zero problem with being proven wrong. Show me the counterpoints. Instead you just only managed to prove my point. ##Vote Batsnacks | ||
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On November 28 2014 11:28 kushm4sta wrote: why are "the scum running scared"? My first instinct, the scum killed Trfel because of how well he was putting his cases together. WIFOM, sure, but that was the first thing that came to my mind. Three cases for scum - Bats, Meat, Kush I think I've already explained my points against Bats. Meat is falling into the lurker category, having contributed slightly more than Alakaslam. Kush, I filtered him again. I don't understand why his arguments for DSMI were stronger than the argument for Damdred. He didn't use much explanation for Damdred, but then again he was on his phone. For DMSI, he used a generic D1 argument (that was voiced by others and could have been used for others), and if he voted Damdred initially - who was vocal - why did he defend Batsnacks for the same reason (being vocal). Regarding the potential policy lynches, Alakaslam is still a pure policy and should only be done for if nothing else. His bandwagon vote was a little annoying, if he acknowledged afk, he should have actually gone for the no-lynch, no information/participation to make a good informed vote. Then again, he may not even have known about that since mod posted that midway. IMO if Meat doesn't get modkilled, I think halfway through D2 and he would become a more pure policy vote IMO. I am assuming his last post claiming storm was on his phone. Not sure when that storm hit before he posted that. Oats, I know your vote appears on Meat a pressure vote, but if he's getting hosed (figuratively and literally) I'm not sure if we can gauge him unwilling or unable to answer. I'm not saying he's any more/less scum because of that, but just that pressure vote may not work as intended. | ||
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On November 26 2014 01:55 kushm4sta wrote: Damdred-stronger read His tone reads like a know it all. His arguments defending his shit pushes make no sense. Now he didn't say Damdred was vocal, but Damdred was vocal. His defence of Bats being vocal. On November 27 2014 01:33 kushm4sta wrote: Batsnacks is way too active to lynch d1. The truth is that it's rare that someone is going to have strong reads d1, so you can't fault batsnacks for that. He has been promoting discussion and had a huge presence in the thread. You don't ever lynch someone like that d1. Oats, you should know that. And that's what makes me worry about you. Now the argument he gave to me: On November 27 2014 02:21 kushm4sta wrote: The keyword is DOUBLES. As in he's a good scumlynch as well as plynch. Alaka would be a better pure plynch sure, but Dicksmash has scummy content as well. Dicksmash shows a need to survive. Earlier he came into the thread and tried to give some content. This reasoning is generic bullshit. He's voting batsnacks for 1 fluidity of reads - which is common d1 2 not posting reads or reasoning - which other people have been worse about, plus is not even really true His batsnacks vote is bullshit. You can say anyone's reads D1 are poor. But if other people haven't been posting reads or reasoning what made DSMI the absolute prime candidate for him compared to Damdred (albeit different reasoning) or others he claimed was worse? Also maybe this might sound dumb but I thought it over. How can someone be a (lurker) policy lynch and scum lynch at the same time? If you cannot get a read on someone or if you are going to policy lynch them, how does it make them scum? Haven't enough of you argued that lurker is because it's hard to get a read on? | ||
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On November 29 2014 02:14 batsnacks wrote: HTS you said meat has contributed slightly more than slam. So why is it bats, meant, kush and not bats, slam, kush? Slam to me is pure policy - policy lurker means I cannot get a read on him. I am not in any way saying Slam is scum. Slam is null. I put priority on people with scumlike behaviour over people who are pure policy lynch. The content that Meat has posted and the manner in which he did not is not fully supported. If you look at the long post he did when giving reads some of it is on shaky ground. | ||
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On November 29 2014 02:33 rsoultin wrote: Um, HTS... You just answered your own question. How someone can be a policy lynch and a scum lynch at the same time. Wtf lol. At least if you keep questioning why meat is a policy lynch. Am I misunderstanding your posts or something? I think you have. Meat isn't a policy lynch yet. I am saying scum based on what he posted before he disappeared. Meat is not a policy, Alakaslam is, and I think might be edging closer to a modkill. What I am questioning is Kush's justification for calling DSMI a policy lynch when he'd posted more recently (to Kush's voting him) and a scum lynch. He used "doubles" as the explanation. Am I making sense now? | ||
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Rsoultin, what I am questioning is Kush's justification for calling DSMI a policy lynch AND a scum lynch, when DSMI had posted more recently (to Kush's voting him). He used "doubles" as the explanation. Am I making sense now? | ||
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To add to rsoultin's list, along the lines of #1, I also look for whether a claim can be supported. The person making a claim should be able to support it, although that person doesn't always have to be quoting support every time. If you cannot follow the logic or find reasonable backup, ask away. If they fail #2, you're probably onto something. The only hazard with #4 is that whilst it's a good measure for yourself, you need to be wary if someone else says "this is forgettable", especially if it's an accusation against them. All else said, Hopeless, welcome to the show. | ||
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On November 29 2014 06:39 rsoultin wrote: 1. People who aren't consistent. You ask them a question and it doesn't match up with their previous posts. 2. People dodging questions entirely even after they're asked multiple times. 3. People who breeze in, post some, then disappear again. 4. People who seem to be posting a lot yet I can't remember what they actually said, because that means their posts had no new or significant substance to them. Neither individual is helping the town agenda (both have promoted policy votes over scum votes for example). Looking at both Bats and Kush (as my current vote is on Bats) and using the above as a checklist for Kush: #1 - Check. I had pointed out the D1 argument on page 51, but why does Kush expect any of us to think that D1 makes him a townie? Reads with the exception of the one Kush did on his phone have been weak/unsupported. Bats' voting D1 was a problem, but the gap between voting Damdred and then jumping to DSMI is even worse given the arguments he used to try and sell that vote. He pushed that vote well before Damdred did. #2 - Check. Bats has dodged questions from three people this game (Oats, Breshke, myself). Kush isn't saying much of anything to begin with, but he dodged Oats on the Damdred read. #3 - Check. Kush is way more sporadic than Bats, Thanksgiving is forgiveable, but afterwards, even Bats hasn't afked. #4 - Check. At least I remember Bats for being overly defensive. Kush's filter on the other hand, I have had to filter dive three times in the last 12 hours. I'd say he's topped Bats in the scum category. ##unvote ##vote kushm4sta | ||
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Can you explain what made you conclude Oats as townie? I'm not disputing it but want to see your thought process. You previously said this: Some defensive posting. seems to say a lot without saying a lot. | ||
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Updated reads after more filtering: SL and Breshke for sure town. Pretty confident about Rasputin too. SL been erratic at times but generally he appears town aligned. | ||
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As for the overexplained part, I am making sure I can follow the logic used by others to go after Kush. I might not be the first one posting here but I failed to probe harder when Kush made his pitch for DSMI. I did not want to make the same mistake again for a vote on Kush. I spent more time filter diving for a reason. I am scrum hunting and checking what is already being put out is right. Which is why I used the above checklist as a guide. Does this make sense? | ||
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If I posted with no explanation, then you have a case. Oats: It is equally probable that Kush is staying low to make you think he's not scum. | ||
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[B]On November 30 2014 01:43 Oatsmaster wrote: completely untrue. You know what, im gonna stay on this just because half the sky takes no personal responsibility towards his voting and actions. [/QUOTE] Wrong. LightningStrike pushed me earlier on why I drove the push for DMSI. I took responsibility for voting him, absolutely but I explained my rationale for doing so. | ||
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On November 30 2014 01:43 Oatsmaster wrote: completely untrue. You know what, im gonna stay on this just because half the sky takes no personal responsibility towards his voting and actions. Wrong. LightningStrike pushed me earlier why I drove the push for DMSI. I took responsibility for voting him, absolutely but I explained my rationale for doing so. [/QUOTE] | ||
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Meta arguments either way hold nothing to me personally but that is besides the point. | ||
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1 Why are you scumlisting Breshke? He claimed he was hit with RB. Are you counterclaiming? Has anyone? 2 Why are you scumlisting someone who has just entered the game? (Hopeless) Alakaslam in my eyes was a pure policy lynch. And you said it yourself to me when you brought up DSMI. What prompted the change? | ||
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On November 30 2014 03:34 Damdred wrote: Hopeless is correct everyone afk with votes everywhere sucks, Kush shouldn't be the lynch today we need to hash this out Damdred, it is not only the AFKs that are a problem. The criteria for calling scumlike behaviour is quite variable here and that's not helped by the fact with 50% newer players in the pack. I've seen at least two situations now where people agreed on a specific thing that was going on, but reaching different conclusions. For example, Hopeless being just in here but suggesting as scum and others said null. Second, to use something from my end, I see overly defensive behaviour (especially without any support bed it) as scumlike. Why are people acting like they have something to hide? But others are saying this doesn't suffice. That's why I picked up on Rasputins list, remove any flaws in my own thinking. Because I was already wrong once. | ||
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On November 30 2014 05:07 Damdred wrote: Are you that convinced that Kush is scum hts? Damdred, yes. Yes I am. | ||
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On November 30 2014 05:20 Damdred wrote: Explain to me why? Let's talk criteria. Here we go. I want to make sure you understand where I'm coming from here. 1 Gaps in posting/support - First we have the vote on DSMI. When he first listed his reads, he was on his phone, so he was brief, fine. But I'm surprised to not see further extended support/followup for his reads. He called out the following - LS, Rasputin, Oats, and you. There was no followup for LS and Rasputin, and none regarding you, even though Oats, questioned it (see #2) - Because there was no followup, it appeared a massive gap between how we went from voting you to voting DSMI on what appeared to be weaker evidence from him - namely nitpicking. - If Kush used "nitpicking" to vote DSMI, why not vote Oats, who was also guilty of nitpicking? - His defence of Bats was that reads on d1 are poor (or fluid as he said), and that other people haven't been giving reads. Then he admits that "others have been worse" but somehow, before, he had a "stronger read" on you about your shit pushes. To me something doesn't add up. - Why did I buy into Kush's post? Because of 1) urgency on DSMI's part posting and 2) filtering DSMI's comments relative to others. I didn't take Kush at face value. I checked before I changed votes. - Kush pushed the vote before you did on DSMI. - To extend on the D1 argument, it also doesn't make sense to me that he would say D1 is fluid and then expect us to say that D1 proves him innocent. As in we are good enough to read him as town from D1 actions. If that was a troll comment, see #5. - Conclusion - There are enough gaps and contradictions here, and I revisited Kush's post because he sold me an argument that proved wrong. Urgency was wrong - he flipped town. So I looked closer at the other points I was sold. 2 Dodging questions - He dodged Oats asking him about the Damdred read. I think he might have dodged one more in there, but I stopped at page 27 when I was double checking that. 3 AFK issue - He admitted this. Bad as alakaslam, no but taking it at face value, it appeared a huge cop-out, particularly with the D1 argument. We're past Thanksgiving. 4 Forgettable - As I said before, I recall Bats' filter more than his, although Bats' filter was 2x as much, so there's that. 5 Spam/trolling - This is applicable more to Bats than Kush, although Kush had a few of these as well. But I find spam/trolling/etc a problem because it just makes it more difficult for the town. There's more to weed through. Scum would want to make it difficult for the town. I won't speak for others but it's not always easy to tell who is trolling/serious/not serious etc when I'm reading this stuff. - Again as I said before, meta holds nothing to me. If you think I'm taking someone too seriously, call me on it. I took Breskhe too seriously early on, and I stood corrected. Kush, if you want to answer these, I'm all ears. | ||
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On November 30 2014 05:58 batsnacks wrote: It was scummy. omgusing is usually scummy. The bolded word means??? | ||
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On November 30 2014 06:03 Damdred wrote: Oh my god You suck Got it, cheers. | ||
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On November 30 2014 05:46 Hopeless1der wrote: kush almost literally doesnt play as scum. He also busses like a mofo. He has done neither of these things this game. Hopeless, question, operative words in bold. I think Kush has played some here prior to the middle of D2, but others are calling him out that he's not playing enough. Define what you mean as "almost literally doesn't play as scum". As in just AFK to the point of being a policy lynch? | ||
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On November 30 2014 06:17 Damdred wrote: Look at the games i posted where hes town, he afks in those to! but that doesn't make him scum just because people are propegating what they think his scum meta is doesn't mean thats what it is. hes been actively trying to figure something out when hes here, he shoudln't be lynched rsoul has been scummy at eod lets go I am reading the links you posted....to get through all of this in 40 minutes and Bats' post for resoltin is a big ask. I am trying. | ||
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If you or Kush disagree on something, now's the time to let me know. Hopeless: Some of us had not, but voted thinking there was a stronger candidate than Bats. This has happened both D1 and D2. | ||
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On November 30 2014 06:25 rsoultin wrote: Kinda interesting to me that the leads on this are bats and damdred. Just saying. Y'all can remember that when I flip town if they get this lynch rolling. +1. Same. I have equal risk here as you, so I feel it important to put it all out there as this could be my last chance to help town. Silver lining, at least you aren't spending your Saturday night sorting this out. Then again, weather is horrible here right now. | ||
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Batsnacks, you can answer this also. I am claiming gaps in Kush's reasoning from Damdred to DSMI. Counterclaim or help me fill in the gaps please. Damdred, I've read part of your first case...also continuing... | ||
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- As I said in my explanation, Kush used the D1 argument to defend bats. - Yet he concluded (read) DSMI's D1 nitpicking as scummy enough, or more scummy than you, as you have just stated. - Then when he says he's going afk, he says D1 is enough to save him. As if we are sharp enough that we should deem him town from D1, which who knows. How does this even make sense? You cannot have it both ways. At the very least, are you beginning to see how I'm getting to a conclusion where I'm convinced Kush is scum? You do not have to agree with everything I am saying, that is not what I am asking. | ||
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Now I need to go back and digest why you guys are harping on Rsoultin. All in these last minutes. On November 30 2014 06:48 batsnacks wrote: Everyone on rsoultin should get ready to switch to HTS. Bats, you need to understand something. We might not agree on where Kush is here, but I am not going to vote Rsoultin with little to no understanding at the moment of the problems with him, only for you, or someone here, to accuse me of switching my vote without justification if I should. Because a town would not do that. You are putting me in a lose-lose situation, and a vanilla town would NOT do that. I am going through your case on Rsoultin. | ||
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I refused to switch because I believed he was town, I'm going to be revealed as town shortly, but some of you really shot yourselves in the foot. | ||
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On November 30 2014 07:46 kushm4sta wrote: 5 pm deadline is ass 10pm here. Not great here either but I think Aussies beat us both. 8am I think over there. Count your lucky stars. | ||
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10/10 Glowing Bear......hah! | ||
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Everyone else, I'm crushed. I'm completely horrified right now. Kush I honestly wished you were here to defend yourself or at least set me straight. I'm also horrified because failing twice in a row means I need to go back to the drawing board. I am so sorry Kush. GGs. I'm going to bed now, since it's past midnight. I'm hoping something will make sense when I wake up. | ||
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RNG hates us enough not giving us a cop. But I was worried through last night of a scum team with three veterans. At two lynches from LYLO one, there is a decent chance one of the lurkers is scum. Possibly two. Meat, Hopeless, LS. I'm saying this without filter diving, just based off numbers and given how this group collectively is playin Im sure there is one vet on the team. Again general comment, no evidence. Possible vets, Damdred, Bats, Oats, Hopeless Facts about voting. I believe it was either of Breshke or Meat that pushed Kush, originally. Oats pushed me. I'm not sure how he confused me with LS as he quoted me at least twice going back and forth. LS sheeped the entire time. Breshke could have hammered anyone but didn't. Damdred missed hammering me by presumably seconds. Rasputin could have hammered me but didn't. Because if I had to guess, there was at least one scum likely two in the lynch mob. I'm thinking two of these scum are Meat and Lightning especially considering Lightning sheeped 100%. Third one is a vet. I'm putting it as a tossup between Hopeless and Oats. Regarding the latter, Oats said I wasn't taking responsibility for my votes, yet his explanation for pushing me seems quite ironic. Again all first instincts based from last night. I'm going to read Bats case against Rasputin because I never got to through much before EoD. But N2 lynch yet to occur... | ||
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I was wrong on DSMI and Kush so it's likely I am wrong on thinking Bats is scum using the same way to conclude. SL seems much a scum hunter, still looking good to me. And Bats when you next get here, can you sum up in 1-2 sentences your key point against Rasputin? I read your posts twice now and... Also SL no one has counterclaimed Breshke on RB, I'm confused on how this isn't reliable? | ||
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But some of you earlier in this game were making the argument that not all the mafia could be overly involved...equally likely not all the mafia are lurking. Which is why I conclude for now Oats or Hopeless. | ||
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I should have said "most likely" a vet. Reference page 3 of this thread. Statistically speaking the distribution of (defined) noobs to vets is just about half in this game. Statistically, a 2 noob/1 vet combo or 2 vets/1 noob combo is more likely than 3 noobs or 3 vets. Most here are settled on LS/Meat as two of the three. And on average, I cannot see all 3 scum being lurkers or all most active in any given game. Ignoring meta, people can choose to lurk, be more involved or somewhere in between. A mix of behaviours is most likely. Statistically speaking (ignoring meta and throwing out all assumptions I've made for reasons already explained) that narrows it to you, Bats, Damdred. ...if we assume LS and Meat are scum, both being noob category, and on the lesser end of posting. Not absolutely, but most statistically likely. And after last night I'm not as inclined to think Bats or Damdred scum. But that is subjective from me. It is certainly possible that Hopeless is scum, he sheeped the vote, but so did LS. | ||
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On December 01 2014 02:23 rsoultin wrote: Heh, well...my first instinct is the lynch mob shenaningans last night and squabbling was mostly town fighting town with maybe 1 or 2 scum jumping in to take advantage of the confusion I agree with this, neither of us hammered the other like you said and supporting Kush was a case based on meta. But still town driven. | ||
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Meat, Oats, LightningStrike Seems like we agree on Meat and Oats. Just pick either one of those two and go with it. N2 death will also reveal more. Also Bats, just because someone is vanilla does not mean they are going to be correct, especially not being a power role. I'm fully aware I am massively failing this game. Damdred, I get your point on Breshke, but how probable is it actually? I guess you're saying that because he did nothing at EoD. | ||
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On December 01 2014 06:39 batsnacks wrote: Breshke also kept his vote on me d1 because "he wanted to help someone [dicksmash] who wouldn't help themselves" or something to that effect, I don't remember the exact quote. So that and the rb claim are kind of weird things mafia could use to gain town credit. I agree with damdred don't sleep on breshke. Thanks. I understand what you are saying, should I survive, I will be sure to have a look through his filter. | ||
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##Vote Meatpudding | ||
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Breshke and Rasputin: I agree that LS is scum. He is new player and he is scum. He obviously not a PR, so...the whole "forced my hand" comment was the first red flag and following the mob EoD D2 was the second. I'm not sure what bussing means but the problem right now is that we are getting too close to lylo one so on page 70 we put out our top three scum and are voting on the most common one. Meat by far. If you disagree with Meat, why? | ||
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1am here...I'm out. | ||
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I cannot vote them both here. | ||
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Bats can you please explain that plus your case against Rasputin? I still don't understand your case on Rasputin. I have read this 3x. The main thing with Bats is the question dodging. This can be proven. First, Oats, me, Breshke and now you. Is this meta SL? I am thinking to EoD 2. He had held me hostage to switching the vote on you. Why would a town do this? Is is common for a town on town squabble? SL I can trust your opinion on this one. Still am fine with a LS vote. More than. All these questions. It is a plausible case. ##unvote ##vote LightningStrike | ||
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##vote LightningStrike | ||
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##vote LightningStrike | ||
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Anyways, Hopeless I still have no idea. Null. Still. He sheeped both sides, but at least he/Alakaslam admitted they sheeped for the sake of sheeping. At least D2 didn't say explicitly but you could tell and his support for Kush's meta was his reason for not wanting Kush. | ||
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I assume Meat will vote LS to save himself later onwards. | ||
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If Meat does NOT return, he gets modkilled. We are lylo one, we have to take that into account. | ||
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On December 01 2014 21:23 Breshke wrote: I'm feeling a lot better about this game because I am now fairly sure rsoultin is town and if anyone disagrees they should say so we can discuss it. I have felt this way for awhile, and that is why I refused to change my vote to Rasputin. If he was scum, he should have voted me down, in fact he should have quick hammered me for both a modkill (Kush) and the vote kill (me) and then town still would have been worse off. That plus N2 would have taken us directly to mylo (5:3). I was actually waiting for Rasputin's vote - the rest of the lynch mob was predictable at that time - and it didn't happen. I still have a major problem the way Bats held me hostage. If this is a common town-on-town tactic, someone please tell me it is, because it's just wrong. Look at EoD #2 again. He pleads Damdred to change even though the latter said before he was reluctant to switch back to me. Damdred grilled me, we had a philosopical difference on meta, we spent 40+ minutes clashing before he accepted my train of thought. A reasonable townsperson (which Damdred was) flipped, who relied on his Bats meta would have grilled me, a new player, someone he didn't know. I swear I thought I would throw these assumptions away after EoD 2 but this shit (along with the question dodging) keeps coming up again. WHY!?!?!!?!? | ||
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On December 01 2014 21:48 Oatsmaster wrote: NEVER MENTION MODKILLS. EVER. Just dont. Its out of game stuff. Never do it. In any game you play. Am I breaking any rules by mentioning this? This is a serious question. Because I think I actually did break the rules once this game. (Hint: Rasputin/Breshke already drew attention to it.) Otherwise, I'm confused. Is there a general rule I'm not aware of? Kush would have been modkilled D2. This is not a new issue this game. | ||
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http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Hammer A hammer is a vote on someone which results in the majority needed to lynch them. Once the hammer vote is placed, the game moves into Twilight until the mod posts the death scene. The player who has been hammered is considered beyond salvation as of the moment the hammering vote has been placed; barring the influence of a role like a Governor nothing will stop them from getting lynched. Many mods allow hammered players to post in Twilight but some do not. A Quickhammer (sometimes seen as QH) is a technique (usually) used by scum to secure a lynch by hammering a player before anyone can react. These are most notorious for winning the game in LyLo situations. If one Townie votes another Townie, theoretically all of the living scum can pile onto the wagon en masse and secure the game-winning lynch. However, this can be done in other situations as well in a move to cut off the Town's discussion as the game moves to Night after the lynch. Also mylo and lylo to clarify - I know we covered it before, but again: MYLO - Mislynch and lose http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mylo Mislynch-and-Lose, or MyLo, is a game state where the Town will lose if it mislynches during the present Day phase. This is different from LyLo in that LyLo requires the Town to lynch correctly, whereas in MyLo the Town is still afforded the opportunity to No Lynch without forfeiting the game (though this generally makes the next Day LyLo). While the opportunity for No Lynch is available in MyLo, whether it should be done is a different question. On the upside, by refusing to lynch the Town may be able to give its investigative roles another chance to work their magic. On the downside, if the Town has already massclaimed or if there are no roles that can make use of the Night remaining, opting not to lynch will simply give the scum a free kill on the Townie who is most likely to help the Town lynch correctly at LyLo. Lylo - Lynch correctly or lose http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=LyLo Lynch-or-Lose, or LyLo, is a game state wherein the Town must lynch scum during the present Day phase or they will lose the game (often by being endgamed by scum). It is also called Lynch-right-or-lose. It is generally easy to tell when a game is in LyLo because there will only be one more Town player alive than the number of scum. For instance, if there are five players alive and two of them are scum (thus three of them are Town), the game is in LyLo. This can be adjusted for the presence of multiple killing groups, but the premise remains the same. | ||
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On December 01 2014 22:53 rsoultin wrote: okay, I know i'm tired. oats loving everyone made me think of sowing oats. Deary me, between that and the fact you were posting a few hours before, makes me think you were up all night your time. Or at least way too early or stayed up way too late. | ||
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Lightning, do you have any explanation for why you voted the way you did EoD D2? Can you expand upon the first part of your first vote (the bolded part)? On November 30 2014 06:44 LightningStrike wrote: Okay rsoultin stuff is now not making sense after reading stuff that bats wrote on him and what Hopeless wrote on him and kush would not be a good lynch today so I suggest we go after rsoultin since he voted on me I guess it's time for my move. ##Unvote ##Vote rsoultin On November 30 2014 06:58 LightningStrike wrote: Roger Bats ##unvote ##vote: Half the Sky | ||
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1 What actions (NOT lurkiness/afk) have you noticed make Meat more scummy than LS? 2 Compare LS's lurkiness to that of Meatpudding (or Hopeless) and why you think it's more/less scumlike. (If anyone else wants to answer the above, that's fine too.) As I've said before, both need to go. But either defend your current ideas, refute the current sentiment present, or present one of your alternatives. Whether or not you want to use meta, I don't care at this point, but you have been doing none of the above. | ||
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Bats: Thank you for being honest here. I know you are frustrated, LYLO sucks. But you feel that way about someone in lategame, this ALSO involves helping yourself and building some credibility in the process. Because right now, people are doubting you. This is a newcomer game, and we don't have 7 Damdreds here who know you and your meta. Fact. Again, RNG denied us a cop. This sucks as bad for you as it does the other remaining townies. If we were already in MYLO then yes, go with Meatpudding absolutely. No question about that. But there is disagreement on that third scum. Even if we're right on Meat, the problem is we gather NO extra information to split the rest of this group up. We may not be LYLO but we're back to square one with everyone heckling each other. Others are feeling the same. We feel the information gained PAST Meatpudding is worth potentially being in LYLO. Because beyond Meatpudding, even the townies in this group diverge on the remaining scum. If somehow Meat does NOT flip scum, then we have no information gained and we are still in LYLO. Bottom line - Endgaming scum is going to go beyond one vote, Meat or LS, and we feel the information gained is worth that tradeoff. Meat is gone no matter how you slice it. If you think you have a better lategame strategy, I'm all ears. | ||
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The only reason I say "potentially" and "even if" is because we don't know for sure and we have no outside information that guarantees anything. (The scum knew there was no cop from the off (per rules) so it's likely they are taking advantage of that.) Now if you think I need to make an argument to him why LS is the way to go, that's another discussion. I have already stated those reasons, but for whatever reason, people are not sold on LS. This is the problem I'm trying to describe, too many people disagree on too many reads. I'm personally very sure of both. My personal view? Lynching LS will give us the best of both worlds, scum and a direction to go. Lynching Meat will give us scum...and then more bickering/guessing games. | ||
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On December 02 2014 09:13 Breshke wrote: If you are going into possible lylo do you want meat there? The problem here now wouldn't be meat...in LYLO people do crazy things out of the woodwork to secure the win. So meat wouldn't be the problem actually in LYLO...it'd be everyone else, as in the scum and the confusion about it. We could very well run into the same problem with LS. We're not absolutely sure. Let me read sicklucker's post one more time. He pushed the idea to switch to LS. | ||
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You know what. We need to stay out of LYLO. Because LYLO brings only more chaos and not less. The only way you'd ever opt LYLO is if we were in MYLO now and we take the no-lynch, but that is not the present situation. ##unvote ##vote meatpudding Good night everyone. Please leave me any questions, will get to them when I wake up. Cheers. | ||
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On December 03 2014 02:55 LightningStrike wrote: EBWOP I meant you bussed me for longer than a town player would normally bus a player with you bussing me for about 68 hours when a town wouldf only bus for at least 24 hours max and you went longer than that. What??? Not only I had to read this 4x to understand this unless you meant bossing you around because you were a newer player. Meat: Biggest problem with your latest argument is that you said you voted Kush or someone for being afk and yet one of the main reasons you are under the spotlight is because you are lurking (aside from the Brisbane storm incident). Some here are worse than others, but I'd say the only one worse than yourself in this category is Hopeless. This game has obvious catered to the lurkers, I am gathering your defence is primarily pointing to the other lurkers. Second question - after you said you'd be here to vote, you said LS was scummy and now like four pages later, he's okay? I don't follow? | ||
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Alright, here's what I'm thinking. General strategy - we got 2-3 lurkers in this game, and even though I feel both LS and Meat are scum, from a general strategy viewpoint, Breshke, I'm thinking about what you said, we get this wrong, we go into LYLO. Do you potentially want to go into LYLO with 2-3 lurkers out of 7 players left and 3 scum? Are we absolutely sure of our choice with LS here that we are risking the above situation? I am not going to tell anyone here to change their vote. I understand why Rasputin has come to what he's concluded. But this is making me a bit nervous. | ||
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I hope we got this right  | ||
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*gives Rasputin a hug* | ||
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On December 03 2014 07:03 rsoultin wrote: Sweet! Lol. Damn, I was scared of screwing this game so bad. >< This was such a critical juncture of the game, it could have gone either way on us. I was afraid we'd go into LYLO with 2 lurkers but we took the bugger out I am so relieved, stoked and thrilled we got this right. Fully aware I didn't vote him, but I can only vote 1 out of 2 scum. 50% right, this... Rasputin, Bats wasn't answering ANYONE'S questions hahahah. | ||
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Ls is in this game to ask dead end questions and be all around pilly wally. What has he done besides cover his tracks and post little during the times when he was able to coast, mainly because bats and oats and mainly the rest of town has been fighting over one another. So my previous vote analysis notwithstanding, it's almost clear that scum has had almost no play in the push of town against town, and this explains the passive play by ls. He could vote for A or B or whatever and it doesn't really matter because either way one step closer to lylo. I would be happy to vote on ls even if I had another viable choice here. In fact I would have thought about it yesterday, but kush being afk made me assume that he was lacking in defense.[QUOTE] This is an example of a post I really didn't like by Meat. This game catered to the lurkers. Meat lurked even more than LS (Brisbane storm aside) and he's using the same argument to justify killing LS. Two scum left, I'd say either one of Meat or Hopeless for sure. Either that or look for someone who shadowed another player to blend in. This game was all about the scum who could stay low which is how they had gotten this far. LS was one of them, I am thinking there was a second. Third was probably someone a little more involved to take advantage of our confusion. That's just a hunch. Like you both, I want to hear Batsnacks' response to this. | ||
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On December 02 2014 21:48 meatpudding wrote: Ls is in this game to ask dead end questions and be all around pilly wally. What has he done besides cover his tracks and post little during the times when he was able to coast, mainly because bats and oats and mainly the rest of town has been fighting over one another. So my previous vote analysis notwithstanding, it's almost clear that scum has had almost no play in the push of town against town, and this explains the passive play by ls. He could vote for A or B or whatever and it doesn't really matter because either way one step closer to lylo. I would be happy to vote on ls even if I had another viable choice here. In fact I would have thought about it yesterday, but kush being afk made me assume that he was lacking in defense. This is an example of a post I really didn't like by Meat. This game catered to the lurkers. Meat lurked even more than LS (Brisbane storm aside) and he's using the same argument to justify killing LS. Two scum left, I'd say either one of Meat or Hopeless for sure. Either that or look for someone who shadowed another player to blend in. This game was all about the scum who could stay low which is how they had gotten this far. LS was one of them, I am thinking there was a second. Third was probably someone a little more involved to take advantage of our confusion. That's just a hunch. Like you both, I want to hear Batsnacks' response to this. | ||
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On December 02 2014 08:10 batsnacks wrote: I really don't feel like suffering through three days of lylo with you people. It's just not worth it especially when oats, if mafia, will be legitimately difficult to lynch. Like meat should be the easiest lynch ever. If we can't get that right without me holding everyone's hand I give up. What do you make of the above? | ||
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On December 03 2014 08:21 Breshke wrote: LS doesn't mention bats in like his first two sets of reads, he also then calls him scum and then town without explaining how he has made the jump between these two reads. I havn't really looked into it much and probably wont until later but yeah. I will keep an eye for this as I keep filter diving. Still working on Bats... | ||
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On November 30 2014 04:48 batsnacks wrote: Plus the way he voted kush is really scummy. I don't think kush looks great d2 but if I were to vote kush the reasons I would give would look nothing like the reasons HTS is giving. If I'm voting kush all I would say is "he isn't posting enough." Examine the above - common scum tactic. You could technically WIFOM that argument but this shows trying to impede the town. Taking out the townies who are posting more and doing more instead of those who are posting less, obviously Kush was VT, but if he were scum he'd have known that with both PRs down by D2. Trfel was especially strong against Bats, but WIFOM was used to discredit that. But it makes sense in a newbie game. Also this list from D2 I think... On November 28 2014 05:37 batsnacks wrote: Not you Not LS Not Damdred Not Kush Not me oats is null even though I dislike his tunneling on me. I actually remember things he says. putin is null because I remember some of his posts and that's better than nothing. slam will go from scummy to super scummy if he doesn't post again tomorrow. Trfel's relentless tunnel is scummy. everyone else looks bad because I don't remember anything they've said. He eliminates LS in that list. | ||
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Onwards... | ||
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Day #1 - Votes No Lynch, then votes DSMI On November 26 2014 06:15 LightningStrike wrote: I was just wating for more posts to get some better reads that why I haven't posted much because there was really much for me to ready. I still waiting for alakaslam, Dicksmash McIroncock, and Meatpudding to post. My reads are atm the following Town: Oatsmaster, sicklucker, Damdred, kushm4sta, Trfel Null: Half the Sky, Breshke, Alakaslam Scum: Dicksmash McIroncock, Meatpudding. Dicksmash didn't post anything after his first post for the day and Meatpudding is either trolling us with the stuff he posted earlier or he scum but time will tell. Alakaslam at least gave a good explanation for his posts. Breshke gave a explanation on why he voted for sicklucker Half the Sky made some decent posts but it reads null in my eyes but I still kind of new to TL Mafia (2nd game in TL mafia). Day #2 - Votes Meatpudding, change vote to Rasputin, change vote to myself On November 27 2014 07:53 LightningStrike wrote: I thought I saw a post of him pushing for the lynch but Kush and Damndred I know did and now that I just reread the thing since you questioning the bolded part it was just a misread it was HTS who helped push it so here the scum list for me now that I had reread everything Kush HTS Damndred. On November 28 2014 22:36 LightningStrike wrote: I just woke up after going to bed after my last post and I asked who my top 3 scum are and here is mine that are here meatpudding kushm4sta Alakaslam @rsoultin The only wagon at the time was Dicksmash McIroncock and other cases that wasn't well put out and few people who I felt was townie voted for Dicksmash McIroncock so sorry if I put it all on you but it was mainly your push to get me to vote kind of forced my hand :| On November 29 2014 08:25 LightningStrike wrote: If you had read my my top 3 scum list that I had made per your request I had put Meatpudding in there first on my list and reading the case on bats I think if meatpudding ends up as scum I think bats would be our next lynch but that just me in my opinion and here was my last I made earlier in the thread obviously my view changed now with the following as my current scum meatpudding batsnacks kushm4sta kush posts seems to not have any real substance at all and the same thing happened in my last game when he was scum so it's a high chance in my opinion he would be scum. Day #3 - Votes Meatpudding No scum lists. It appears he's pretty anti-Meatpudding here actually going through all these scum lists. Hmmmmm. | ||
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On November 28 2014 12:56 LightningStrike wrote: Okay since now that my cousin and his wife and son have left I can finally give you guys my current reads for the time being. Breshke: Town since he displaying the same kind of approach for today as he did in my last game when he was town. Batsnacks: Null leaning town since he is acting close to the same way he did last game with me when he was a doctor but he been dodging questions from Oatsmaster and Half the Sky. Damndred: Null leaning town since he was one of the major pushers for the lynching of DSIM without much of a good reason and been defending Batsnacks actions but at the same time he been giving losts of questions although DSIM didn't respond well to the questions. Half the Sky: Town since he been giving good reasonings for his reads throughout the game although I don't like his case for Batsnacks being scum based on my own experience playing with Batsnacks in my last game. sicklucker: Town because his posting style had pretty much stayed the same from the last game I played with him although he did looked very scummy in that game but he was just a Vanilla town and since our power roles had been lynched/killed I having a safe bet that sicklucker is town. meatpudding: Null leaning town he had some decent questions after being gone for a while and now he claiming to have no power at his house it could be a scum move because one of the scums in my last game tried to pull that move but failed so perhaps meatpudding could scum. alakaslam: null leaning scum since he not posted much of his reads but he also admitted to notread much of the thread during the time of us lynching DSIM but I need to see more posts of his though since he said he had to go earlier in the thread to confirm my suspicions. Oatsmasters: Town since he been asking lots of questions to everyone and been trying to lead the discussion when he can which isn't a trait a scum member would do. kushm4sta: Null leaning scum since he not been contributing a lot like his last scum game which was my last although he did give a couple questions to people he also didn't post much so I need to wait for him to post more so I can get a better read on him rsoultin: Null leaning town since he trying to ask some questions and responding to questions he been asked by others although he did convence me to lynch DSIM that is haunting me because of my last game experience :| The above was D2. | ||
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Oats, you have any updated reads by any chance? I'm actually glad I went through that stuff on LightningStrike now that we know he is scum...because he was pretty damn anti-Meatpudding the whole game. Makes me wonder if Meat might actually not be scum. | ||
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Off to bed I go....well done again town. Huzzah! | ||
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On December 03 2014 19:50 meatpudding wrote: What is the point of this? Half his reads are null anyway. Is there anything you can tell from here or any reason to repost it now? Read this AND the last thing I posted on his record. Now that we know LS is scum, I'm re-reading everything he's done and put out there. His list of threes tells me he seemed like he wanted to take you out for awhile, which makes me reconsider you as scum, second page, since all the reads are together, he probably didn't want to indicate he was possibly aligned with anyone. It's always good to go back and re-examine someone when their role is revealed and that's so that we aren't missing anything. I am also posting such that if anyone else here had a different opinion on this, they can say something on it. On December 03 2014 19:52 meatpudding wrote: That makes absolutely no sense. Any scum could have claimed not just the rb. Context. If there's one mafia left and it's the roleblocker...the key word here is AND. Even then I would take this a step further and say that if it's one scum left, we know it's RB, and the people left are what we think are the towncircle. Either way his situation he describes is that we know what specifics are being revealed as a scum goes. You read the N3 post right? It revealed LS as a goon, so we have one goon and the RB left. | ||
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Bats reads super scummy to me. Hope is a null. He did try to get me to play ball with him end of day 2, however, which is odd to me for scum.[QUOTE] QFE, massively. I thought Hopeless would have been a good candidate being a lurker but that's the thing, that's the only thing you can say, and lurking goes either way. He did cite work as a problem, and looking it over, he was called in as a replacement which is something that should be considered against that. Meat fell in for me partially because of lurking but I really didn't like most of his posts, as SL said, it is not easy to follow your train of thought in most of them. Ironically LS's posts once he was caught is what may have revealed the most about Meat. On the other hand, I can make a long laundry list of all the scumlike things that Bats has done. The way he played EoD 2 is probably the biggest red flag out there, I cannot imagine any universe where a townie would hold someone hostage to switch votes to someone else like that. The fact that Damdred went toe to toe with me for 40 minutes even though we reasoned at the end made me feel MUCH better about him, but Bats did none of that, hasn't taken questions, even Damdred and Hopeless both expressed reluctance to switch their votes back to me. Complete agreement with both of you SL and Rasputin, Bats needs to go, and he needs to go as soon as possible. | ||
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On December 03 2014 13:02 rsoultin wrote: Bats reads super scummy to me. Hope is a null. He did try to get me to play ball with him end of day 2, however, which is odd to me for scum. Damn quote boxes. I'll be completely honest, Rasputin, I might sound crazy here, but I just haven't been impressed with Meat's posting at all this game. Maybe it's inexperience, I think we're all learning. But even as a beginner myself I've had a difficult time following where he's trying to go with his posts half the time. Although now, I'm not as convinced he is scum after re-reading LS's posts. There are eight alive right now. I'm good on you, Breshke, SL, Rasputin We have Meat, Hopeless, Oats and Bats left. Meat could be scum, but it's unlikely, though I will admit I'm not sold on an argument yet as to why he's not. He did say he's bad at his defense, EoD D3. Hopeless is a complete tossup. Bats is the clear scum for me. I think if we take him out, that will reveal all we need to know about Oats. So in order: Bats, Hopeless and a tossup between Oats and Meat. | ||
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On December 03 2014 22:43 Breshke wrote: HTS explain what you mean that it will reveal all about oats?? Bats' alignment, once he goes, will reveal the motives behind Oats' trying to steer us away from him. Why any player - especially a veteran, should advocate a lurker over Bats is beyond me when loads of evidence is currently pointing to Bats across the entire game. And with this few people left in the game, there's less room to hide for the scum. | ||
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First, we're not giving him a free pass. At least I'm not, and it doesn't appear anyone else is either. If we were, then we'd be calling him town. I don't believe anyone at this point has called him town. At least, I'm not. On December 03 2014 23:02 Oatsmaster wrote: Hopeless is massively scum. You guys are giving him a free pass for lurking? No town lurks this hard when they are almost gonna lose the game. My problem with the above is that Hopeless HAS cited a RL (work) for his AFKness. RL is irrelevant to whether someone in this game is town or scum, yeah people can lie, but since EoD D2, he has posted where he will be. I have my doubts. On December 03 2014 23:02 Oatsmaster wrote: I really cant believe that you guys dont think lurking is a legitimate scumtell. This late in the game, it is. To me it is however it's not the only one, and it is not the strongest. I fail to see how lurking alone overrides the scummy behaviour in Bats. If you don't think Bats is scummy, you have not given a counterargument for that, and if you have, please quote it. Now Hopeless' quote. On December 03 2014 23:02 Oatsmaster wrote: Then he tries to push sicklucker by referencing his read on damdred? His points are not even legitimate. This reads so much like hopeless trying to create a lynch outta nothing. And for him to be actually doing stuff so he has some content. It sucks. LYNCH HOPELESS. To me it doesn't make sense. I understand your point on this. And that's why some of us are putting him on the list, but he's not number one. Bats is number one for all actions cited through the game - not just one post, not just one action. The above is the only action that you can demonstrate, and Bats's problems are an aggregate from all three days. And I don't understand how someone as experienced as you are can ignore this. To me it appears you are sidestepping Bats altogether. | ||
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Oats, make a case that one post from Hopeless carries more weight than the aggregate of Bats' behaviour over three days. | ||
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On December 03 2014 23:36 batsnacks wrote: Btw I've been afk because I've been too busy wrestling gators to play, do I get a pass now for RL excuses? lol Now you're just trolling. Please. | ||
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On December 04 2014 00:25 Oatsmaster wrote: none of you have strung 5 posts together about how bats is scum, and you post this? Baffles me man. Absolutely. We've hit on all the points plenty. RTFT, more specifically page 88, Rasputin's reads, and go to Bats at the bottom of his post. Of course, that's easy for you to ignore, just as easy as it is to say you confused me for LS when you pushed the vote away on me D2. I sense a pattern here. On December 04 2014 00:25 Oatsmaster wrote: Also lurking one lynch before lylo is fucking scummy and IRL reasons are not real reasons. Context - He was lurking before LYLO one and he's still lurking. On December 04 2014 00:25 Oatsmaster wrote: In fact, the fact that you even think about trying justify your absence is scummy. IRL reasons or any other activity excuse are not valid in this game. Do not use those as a reason to not lynch people. WIFOM at best. People can be uninterested because they are a scum trying to hide or a townie who is lazy and doesn't want to put in the work to find scum. Both have happened, both are possible. Either way, unhelpful for the town, and if there was a vigilante in this game, the conventional meta is to take out lurkers regardless of perceived alignment, but that's not the case in this game. Hope is policy all the way. It was said multiple times by people D1 and it's true now - policy vote only when there are no other options for scum. Therefore, a justification for Bats being town is actually in order if you truly believe he shouldn't go. | ||
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On December 04 2014 06:33 rsoultin wrote: Lol, SL. That is definitely concise. xP My version of concise. LS resisted voting when you were leading the lynch votes. LS stated you were scum, then suddenly started sheeping you with no explanation other than you "made sense". Your editing portions out of my posts then claiming that I was contradicting myself during EoD2. Threatening HTS with lynching if he didn't switch his votes. Declaring him townie then switching your stance to possibly mafia after I pointed out that HTS and I logically were the same alignment. Calling out Damdred's death before he died. Your general refusal to answer questions clarifying your stances on things. Example: Why LS is a bad lynch even if he's mafia. Trolling and insults rather than expressing alternative views. Your general absence yesterday. (You have been increasingly absent throughout the gme.) The way the game has gone decreasing likely scum to you, Hopeless, meat ad Oats. Every one of these can probably be explained, but the aggregate comes out very scummy. Oatsmaster when you get back here please read the above and then tell me a lurker with one suspicious post is stronger case for a lynch than someone showing the above. | ||
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##vote batsnacks | ||
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Bats, please. Mafia is a team game. You should know that as a vet | ||
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On December 04 2014 07:28 batsnacks wrote: I'm glad we agree but why are you voting me then? Pardon me whilst I fix your broken sarcasm meter. | ||
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Meatpudding: Leaving you a question for when you arrive, can I get some updated reads from you, please? Cheers. Good night everyone, onwards to victory! | ||
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Meat, yes, those were my thoughts. Alright, so I'm back. So I read through Hopeless filter, saw the 1-2 posts on SL. SL was def town. Caught up on this thread. I've been uncomfortable with Bats gameplay all game. There's too much from him that indicates he's not town, and he's done almost nothing to establish credibility that he is. That's the approach I see. Why no one (Oats or) whoever is explaining why he's town is also pretty indicative and ironically as Meat said, we're not entirely agreeing on the approach to Hopeless. Even Meat asked this. Rasputin pointed this out already but he said he didn't like how Oats sounded absolutely so sure about his argument. It screams to me "Oats what on earth do you have to hide?" The kicker to me is in the choices and what to do afterwards based on how everyone's playing. Bats is the scummier to me regardless. The lack of the cop makes me consider some of these scum guys knew they could get away with some of their arguments. If Hopeless flips town, then I'm stuck between Bats and Oats. I'm not sure Meat is scum after reading LS posts. If Hopeless is town, at that point, I'd vote Bats. A worst case scenario would result in LYLO and people not fully sure where to go next. If we vote Bats, if Bats flips scum, we know what to do based on motive. If Bats is town, that clears Oats and we know to go to Hopeless. I am falling into the same boat here - it's all about credibility and I'm not buying into the manner that some are debating here. Hopeless is suspicious for lurking this long but there's some motivation to keep the pressure off Bats, and that's the biggest issue for me. The fact that Meat has also questioned it also confirms I'm not the only one puzzled by this or the way Oats is reacting. I also do think Meat needs to give us some updates. But yes those are my thoughts for now, unchanged since last night. Also looking forward to Hopeless picking it up. Let's see what happens. | ||
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On December 05 2014 01:00 rsoultin wrote: Weird way to phrase it. What are you actually asking? As for several people explaining why...he's talking too much to be scum is kind of a laughable defense imo. Especially when none of the games I saw you in you were a complete non-entity. But then, I keep saying I don't trust meta, and everyone here still likes to try to shove it down my throat. This obsession with how many pages is in someone's filter seems to be a pretty superficial way to go scum hunting. And a very easy one to get around. Yea, this is the thing, both extremes are bad. Lurking is bad, but then excessive spam is actually a good way to muddle things up for the town, makes it harder to filter dive, and using sheer activity as a defence, I have no idea why you're doing this Bats. Also people have explained why you're scum at every stage of the game. Aside from Rasputin, Trfel and Sicklucker were two others. | ||
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On December 04 2014 10:44 meatpudding wrote: sl was for pushing hopeless today, he said it several times. Did he give any reason for it? Perhaps it was by the process of elimination by who he thought was town? If I remember correctly it was oats who suggested first to lynch hopeless. Actually he was not, Meatpudding. Here are the relevant quotes: On December 03 2014 11:39 sicklucker wrote: I think that bats/ls being the two people to vote meat after me makes him a likely town. So we vote bats out next almost certainly. If he shows mafia we never vote out meat its too unlikely. On December 03 2014 11:37 sicklucker wrote: Bats and Hopeless1der are the most likely mafia team. Lynch them in that order | ||
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He clearly didn't read EoD D2, otherwise he wouldn't think I'm scum. So I just need to re-explain to him. My sentiments echo yours fully Rasputin. Him thinking I am doesn't make me think he is. I told before I think LS filter helps his case. | ||
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That is where I stand. I have been told by Oats that RL reasons are not valid. Take that as you will. But that is my position on you. Let me know any questions you have. | ||
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Much appreciated on the reads, any guidance is great going forward. | ||
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EoD is 10pm here, I'll be around depending on what you all want to do. I won't seak for Rasutin but Meat isn't scum to me atm so it doesn't appear my vote is going anywhere. | ||
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(Correct me if I'm wrong Rasputin.) I cannot speak for Breshke and cannot guarantee his action but I am just trying to say all isn't lost on your end. | ||
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He is a new player but I cannot grasp where he's going or coming from with his posts. We tried to figure what I did to trigger him. My biggest issue with him is a lack of defence for his end. It's not fully indicative or definite but it makes sense. | ||
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Gahhhhh, stupid time zones. | ||
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#2 is what makes me worried. Trfel died, I almost died, SL died.... | ||
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Where we go from here is what I am driving at. Is the alternative (assuming Lylo) any better for us? | ||
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On December 04 2014 22:03 meatpudding wrote: Kill hopeless first then hts. I'm sure on hopeless I don't think any defense hopeless can put forward would change my mind. He's scum. This was his explanation. Wtf? | ||
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*covers her mouth with her hands* | ||
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WHY? OMG. OMG. | ||
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I am at a loss for words right now. Did you just hammer yourself? | ||
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On December 06 2014 07:26 Oatsmaster wrote: seriously what the fuck guys, How fucking hard is it to lynch hopeless. Oats, if Bats had not switched, Hopeless would have been gone. I can't believe Bats did this. Look at the sequence of votes. I said multiple times my vote wasn't going anywhere. Breshke did nothing. Bats didn't have to do anything! | ||
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What do you make of Bats voting Meat then? I said the votes weren't there regardless Rasputin is in the air. He posted that in advance. Can you please read page 103 again? I'm not saying my vote was good but you didn't need it! Was ANYONE supposed to or even able to save Bats from himself? How was I to have known he was going for Meat with three minutes to spare? How was anyone? | ||
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I'm just really shocked at how this happened. Dammit. | ||
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On December 06 2014 07:02 Blazinghand wrote: batsnacks (3): Half the Sky, rsoultin, Hopeless1der Hopeless1der (3): Oatsmaster, Meatpudding, Breshke Meatpudding (1): batsnacks There's only one choice - Hopeless. It's most likely Hopeless and Meat. | ||
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And Oats, read my post again, the one that you just quoted. Context please. You four had the votes before Batsnacks changed. YOU DIDN'T NEED [b]MY[/b] VOTE. MY vote. | ||
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But yes, Breshke, go for Hopeless. | ||
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Possibility 2 is Rasputin but that would mean he bussed Lightning Strike. How far is Brisbane ahead of me (UTC)? I'm trying to calculate how much time elapsed. | ||
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Or wait. Kush flipped town. He wouldn't have had to hammer anyone. OMG. | ||
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So it is plausible that either could have bussed Bats. | ||
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1 He bussed Lightning Strike. 2 EoD D2 is going to be key. He didn't vote me down, but I was forced to vote Kush to save myself. Why would he bus LightningStrike when he could have taken us straight to MYLO D3? If he is scum, that is the part I cannot figure out. Am I making sense? | ||
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Straight to LYLO D3. | ||
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So possibility 1 is that Hopeless was bussed early on by Oats or Meat, possibility 2 is that Rasputin bussed LS. Which is more probable? | ||
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Alright, now I'm out. Gah. | ||
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On December 06 2014 15:20 rsoultin wrote: Yes, I see that I was wrong. At least about bats. :/ I hate meta...meta is kicking my ass this game though so lol, guess I can't keep ignoring it. Same. Damdred was right again about Bats being the "scummiest townie" or however he put it. | ||
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On December 06 2014 14:14 rsoultin wrote: Dude, seriously? Hts never claimed that he thought hopeless was scummier. He just doesn't understand the clusterfuck of votes at the end, or why bats shifted his vote when there was no chance of lynching meat...though, to be fair, with everything happening all at once I'd be surprised if anyone was fully aware of what was happening. Correct me if I'm wrong for those who were there. This is 100% correct, at least from my end. | ||
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And Oats I'm glad you finally see I'm not scum. | ||
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Regardless, I'm sure on you as well. Always have been. Even after trying to picture a scum Rasputin, the puzzle didn't fit. Breshke questioned me first thing last night, that who was the second scum that voted Bats, saying he wasn't sure that Hopeless' partner couldn't have bussed him with the votes so close. That got me thinking "OMG what if it was Rasputin" and then my mind was scrambling everywhere. But if you were scum, you had multiple chances to take to lylo much sooner than this. Prior to waking up, it appeared Oats had been taking my posts out of context. I feel like I was going to be framed on weak arguments. I'm just glad he re-read D2. Meat had voted so early on Hopeless. I'm trying to come to a sensible argument why he'd do this if they are both scum. | ||
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On December 06 2014 18:35 rsoultin wrote: It's possible? ... Am I allowed to cuss on this site cause if I'm not I've been breaking rules right and left lol -_- Okay, ahem, he'd had it out for meat for awhile. Brand new to scum. Bad at hiding himself, but others could have made suggestions to him to keep riding meat. It's possible. I don't think he would have done it without guidance from someone else though. Scum could have had a coach in theory. There were 4 volunteers this game. So there's that. | ||
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The roleblocker caveat? | ||
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And yea town have been a load of errors this game. I'm no exception although Bats gets the WTF award from me. | ||
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GG Rasputin. Dammit. Mr. Lylo, it is not a pleasure to see you tonight. Again, Breshke, we wanted to know, well now I want to know, why you partook in the shenanigans last night. | ||
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##vote Hopeless1der | ||
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On December 07 2014 09:41 Breshke wrote: So the question why i partook in shenanigans is a weird question for you to ask. What do you hope to achieve from this question? I think a better question is why did I try to lynch meat. The fact is during EoD i started reading bats town. Could you not tell how frustrated hew as that we weren't voting bats and he was being voted. He was pushing his read until the EoD. Alright, this is fair. First, I know you didn't start the shenanigans. I should not have couched it that way. But it was happening so fast, and a bit too fast for me. The votes going back and forth was what upset me because in those minutes I could not figure out what was going on when it happened. Specifically I saw this On December 06 2014 06:53 Breshke wrote: I really want to switch to you here bats followed by the voting on Meat. So I couldn't tell if you were going to change your mind or what. When Bats also said that he wasn't doing it with 3 minutes left, that's when I knew it wasn't going to work (especially with Rasputin airborne IRL). Could I have changed my vote from Bats, sure, but like I said before, I was convinced that Bats was more scumlike than Hopeless based on the behaviours described before. At EoD D3, I wasn't as convinced on Meat after reading the LS stuff as I was Bats and Hopeless. Given my position at that time, I didn't sense a need to. I even posted twice in there saying my vote wasn't going anywhere. On the second question, fair enough on you not liking Meat and saying Oats is town. And now knowing Bats is town, I agree. I'll tell you when it did occur to me when Bats was town - when he said "I hope I get lynched I'm over this dumb game" then I go to respond and at that point time my message marker showed 2200. Any earlier and I'd have mashed some keys to save him, because that was the dead giveaway. I've found his behaviour extremely discouraging, let alone indicative of a townie to begin with, and I'd be lying if I said otherwise. (Similarly I don't believe I'm the only one that said this, I know Sicklucker said the same thing earlier too.) After EoD D2, I thought things would change but then the question dodging and such came up again, and I kept telling myself "should I be really ignoring this?" I have said multiple times I didn't believe in meta, but that might have to change based on my general performance this game. I really don't ever want to be doing this poorly as a townie again. Honestly, I am frustrated with myself. | ||
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On December 08 2014 21:47 meatpudding wrote: ##Vote Hopeless1der Sorry don't have time to post ..... *rolls eyes* Suurrreeeeeeeee you don't.......scumbag.  | ||
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Two down and one to go. Down to the wire. | ||
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On December 09 2014 08:29 Breshke wrote: HTS do you have any follow up from your questions to me before? At this point, no I do not. | ||
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##vote Meatpudding | ||
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On December 10 2014 08:17 Breshke wrote: Like why are you so sure it is not me HTS? Well I have to choose between one of the two of you. The last remaining mafia is the roleblocker and you were the one to have claimed that though I doubt scum skipped out on this D1. I mean, it's possible but not likely. You have been pushing people in the prior days leading up to this, and generally speaking you've been more credible throughout the game. In the Bats v Hopeless vote, both of you if I recall correctly voted Hopeless, which means one of you for certain bussed. I'm more likely to think Meat would have since I didn't recall an explanation for his vote or him scumlisting Hopeless. The other problem is Meat's lurking and not putting a strong case forward on anything at all these last few days. I've filtered you several times now and if I had a case to make against you in any point of the game, I would have done so. It's certainly possible you are scum, but given everything I've considered, unlikely. | ||
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First game done, well clearly I have a lot to learn. Almost got lynched D2 over meta, wow you scum had a nice seat as we were self destructing and guessing left and right. And guess I was right about 2 scum on the block when Meat and LS were both up. Shoutout to coach Sentinel for helping me with the ropes! | ||
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On December 12 2014 07:40 batsnacks wrote: Can we please nominate me for an award? I deserve the blooper award I was made for it. Well since he asked... Also looking through the QTs, didn't know you got Obs QT after your death. Nice to know. | ||
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