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On October 12 2014 05:28 AsmodeusXI wrote:Alright, I've finally gone with a comprehensive read and I'm ready to actually post some substance. Of course, after this I'll have to go for a while again (I think), but hopefully this puts suspicion off me and back towards the true scum where it belongs. By the way, I am also Vanilla Town (yo, Wave, you want some town solidarity and boldness? here it is). So, it's D1 and we know fuck all, so my #1 evils atm are lurkers. I might end up voting on a lurker later or asking for a policy lynch if necessary. Lurkers are scum even if they're town because they're useless to our cause. Die lurkers die. (Yes I realize the hypocrisy, but hopefully I'll get more chances to participate from now on). Here are my current scum reads: Alzadar and MoonBear. So far, these two have put forth the most useless content imo. No conclusions, lots of thoughts that don't lead anywhere concrete, a bunch of confusion that basically just serves to sow dissent among the ranks. In the end, MoonBear gets a pass from me for now because most of his post was based on a rules misunderstanding, but Alz has no excuse. In other words... ##Vote: Alzadar... because until we have a reason to trust you at this point, you super scummy. We also have our townies: Alaric and Req. Alaric's post was far too genuinely helpful for me to buy him as mafia. I don't think anyone's got that kind of skill just yet (except for perhaps Wave and soniv, but we'll get to them), so I'm taking that as genuine. Also, I don't see Req's attitude as a cover YET. However, if townies start falling around him, I'll totally revisit that because it'd be a DAMN good play for scum. But it comes back the fact that I don't think either player is good enough at Mafia yet to being lying based on the contents of their posts thus far. Reads on everyone else: - Wave - I, like ketchup, saw the boldness and the use of color text out of the gate as a little suspicious. It seemed to me that you could be using our noobishness against us by making it LOOK like your Town-hood was official. However, your other posts seem reasonable for the most part. I can't even blame you hunting me since I haven't posted much yet and, as I've said, lurkers be scum. I'm not entirely convinced you're town yet, but that's where I'm leaning. Probably Town.
- owb - Die lurker die. Come out of the woodwork and prove me wrong.
- Ghandi - I don't like your aggro behavior and one-liner style. It smells of scum. But I'm not ready to call this just yet. Still, your shit ain't up to standards.
- LT - Trolls are as bad as lurkers. Die. You're not an obvious threat yet, but I'd want to take you out first if there were no remaining threats like Alz.
- Coma - Die lurker die.
- Cixah - Not sure yet... Innocent Child claim is confusing.
- mordek - Similarly, not sure what to think. Don't like immediate hunch vs. Cixah, but you're clearly not committed to anything yet. I'll also keep an open mind.
- ketchup - I've generally agreed with you, starting from your first suspicions of Wave, so I'm thinking you're town in general. However, I don't buy a vote against Req right now, so you're in a gray area. Probably Town.
- soniv - I like Soniv as town because his posts have been sensible so far, but that's exactly what scumiv would do D1 too. Keeping an open mind because I like the perspectives, but could go either way.
Hopefully I didn't leave anything out or put anything suspicious in because I did do this in a semi-rush to get a post in before I moved on to other busy parts of the day. I'm happy to answer or clarify wherever anyone is confused.
Asmo, consider that the conclusions MB draws on me have nothing to do with the misunderstanding at all, nor does his current three 'feel-based' scumreads.
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On October 12 2014 05:33 jcarlsoniv wrote:Oh wow, things happened. Cixah, not sure why you claimed that early... I don't think you're in any real danger of being lynched. Ugh, now I'm incredibly torn. MoonBear, while your post was glorious and fun to read, it was utterly useless. You can't take 80% of your post talking about wave and his behavior, not come to a conclusion, and then go off on some other non-conclusion bearing tangent. It's a huge "look at me I'm contributing" post, but there is 0 substance. Req is scummy as fuck because of newbie claiming. T_T The longer jeff goes without contributing, the scummier he looks. Swaglord is looking likely town for me. Jesus fucking christ the claims lol. If everyone's VT, then nobody is! Show nested quote +On October 12 2014 05:31 AsmodeusXI wrote:On October 12 2014 05:30 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Can people stop making silly VT claims D1? Super annoying. Sorry, starting to realize how dumb this is. Staph blaming... super noob here. god and the noob claims can we just lynch everyone?
Two things:
Save me from this.
You'd better not be scum.
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##unvote
I dunno I tried to have a problem with his post but in the end I really don't, aside from it being a massive vomit-reads post. Known scum tactic to get people off their back but if so it worked for me for now. Let's see what else you can do.
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Claiming VT isn't a noob move per se, but it is obviously incredibly useless. I do it all the time in TL mafia games. I thought it was pretty obvious I did it for fun but people keep proving me wrong.
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We should also stop discussing VT claims in general because they don't mean a damn thing and don't further useful discussion. (They are not a scumclaim tolkien lol)
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On October 12 2014 05:40 Cixah wrote:It's my first game, sorry  . I've watch enough voice mafia to have my head say 'You probably shouldn't do this.' but I didn't feel safe with how hard and fast that bandwagon came at me. It still doesn't sit right with me how fast those 3 votes came out of the gate against me. Curious though, What made You (Soniv) and Wave think I wasn't getting lynch D1?
The bolded is a good direction if you want to do some analysis, though it being so far from deadline you gotta be careful.
In my case it's just based on experience. I find it particularly rare that a 'prime' target in the early game (first few days) for most of the day is ever the one who actually ends up getting lynched unless he/she does something particularly egregious like scumclaims. Plus to me you didn't look nearly as bad as some others do so I never planned on voting for you.
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On October 12 2014 05:42 jcarlsoniv wrote:y'know what? fuck it ##vote: MoonBearYou can, in fact, continue on the "he said, she said", that's how this game works. And y'know what you've said? Nothing. But you, more than any of the others who've done the same, come off as faux-contribution. Moreso than Alzadar. Asking about cops, trying to discern the setup, having 0 conclusions. THE BEAR'S BLOOD WILL DRAIN RED + Show Spoiler +
I hate that I like this post so much because I don't fully trust you yet
I asked you a couple things in my filter, care to answer them? (I forget where or what they are lulz)
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On October 12 2014 05:49 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2014 05:44 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 12 2014 05:42 jcarlsoniv wrote:y'know what? fuck it ##vote: MoonBearYou can, in fact, continue on the "he said, she said", that's how this game works. And y'know what you've said? Nothing. But you, more than any of the others who've done the same, come off as faux-contribution. Moreso than Alzadar. Asking about cops, trying to discern the setup, having 0 conclusions. THE BEAR'S BLOOD WILL DRAIN RED + Show Spoiler + I hate that I like this post so much because I don't fully trust you yet I asked you a couple things in my filter, care to answer them? (I forget where or what they are lulz) About Req? I'm seeing exactly what I expected, and I'm still trying to decide if he's being normal Req or if he's playing us. Either way I think there are probably better targets for D1? I understand the difficulty of D1 analysis, it's tough to figure out, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt there for now. What I don't like is the continual complaining instead of attempting to emulate others and figure it out.
Alright well assuming you aren't playing ME, you have my axe if you so desire.
I think my one reservation here is the open bluefishing (regarding both Req/MB), unless we are to believe that scum Req/MB are newbie enough to not realize that's a no-no. They also truly seem to believe what he posted about the D1 being useless thing.
Actually just realizing now how similar in attitude both MB and req have been. That's interesting.
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On October 12 2014 05:52 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Soniv, why MB instead of Alz? Alz is still the better read for me, especially since he's been mia since we turned against him.
To me Alz is more 'bumbly' if that makes any sense. I've posted monster walls-o'-text to get town off my back before (which is why you're not entirely off the hook) and MB's discussion choices seem very deliberate as opposed to Alz who could be scum but is a little more passive in how he looks.
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Yeah I have to assume you're town here I think. Too much mind-meld going on and I don't know if you're the type of scum who is good enough at disguising intentions/thoughts to sync up with town so well.
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On October 12 2014 06:08 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2014 05:39 WaveofShadow wrote:
Claiming VT isn't a noob move per se, but it is obviously incredibly useless. I do it all the time in TL mafia games. I thought it was pretty obvious I did it for fun but people keep proving me wrong. I saw it as a fun post, but I'll still definitely question you on it. I don't see why you would be irritated at that since this IS mafia, and that SHOULD have been the expected response. I found it as a fun post that I didn't like because it didn't help town from my prespective. I also enjoyed putting pressure on you about it because at the time I didn't think it came from someone who wanted to help town. The fact that other people have parroted this though makes me think you are more likely town. It also helps that you are trying to find more information from various people even if you are trying hard to put yourself on team soniv --- Similarly, I really wanted to put pressure on Requizen so I voted on him. I don't like his posts so far, and I really don't enjoy when people say things like "i was skimming posts" and then pretending that he is too "newb" to be scum. I'm fairly certain everyone has a general gist of what this game is about, and it bothers me when people pretend they were not "paying attention" so they are free to ask scummy things. I don't see how people already put in him in their town list already. He is still scummy since he still doesn't give substance to many of his posts. I will keep my vote on Requizen until he gives more information in his posts or someone points out exactly why he is a bad vote. He could defend himself, but other people are defending him, which is weird. For example, both Alaric and Asmo have said they don't trust him, but don't want to see him die day 1. Why not?
And who is on 'team soniv' exactly? Soniv can be on my 'team' since everything he said upon his return echoed earlier thoughts of mine.
Whose team are you on?
As for req it's a difficult situation because I've seen scum play this way and try to play up the fact that they're new and they can get away with it, but you also must consider the fact that everything req has posted so far could very well be genuine.
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On October 12 2014 06:13 MoonBear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2014 05:34 WaveofShadow wrote:
Asmo, consider that the conclusions MB draws on me have nothing to do with the misunderstanding at all, nor does his current three 'feel-based' scumreads. My answer of which was constructed was to answer a question put forward to be my one Mr. Ketchup. I answered and I also prefaced that they are 100% not based on anything because D1 arguments are really silly anyway. Google says it means going fishing for bluefish which is confusing. Does this mean something specific in mafia?
Don't know which I don't like more. MB's blatant persistence in being unapologetic for his misgivings this game, or Req throwing them in our face. I guess if you're new there really is no way around it.
On October 12 2014 06:16 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2014 06:13 MoonBear wrote:On October 12 2014 05:34 WaveofShadow wrote:
Asmo, consider that the conclusions MB draws on me have nothing to do with the misunderstanding at all, nor does his current three 'feel-based' scumreads. My answer of which was constructed was to answer a question put forward to be my one Mr. Ketchup. I answered and I also prefaced that they are 100% not based on anything because D1 arguments are really silly anyway. On October 12 2014 05:54 WaveofShadow wrote:
open bluefishing Google says it means going fishing for bluefish which is confusing. Does this mean something specific in mafia? Can you give any other people if we exclude Wave from the list please? Who else seems scummy to you so far?
This post seems a little silly since 'quantity of reads' isn't the issue we have with MB to begin with.
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Obviously not and Ive stated so, but adding more useless reads to his list of the previous three does me no good. And on that note did you even read his post? He himself said he doesn't want to focus on me.
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lol what?
I'm saying he should elaborate on the reads he gave that were based on nothing, not add more like you suggested ketchup. Alz/Tolkien/Jeff. What's so hard to understand about that?
(Though if theyre based on nothing how can he elaborate anyway?)
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On October 12 2014 06:16 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2014 06:13 MoonBear wrote:On October 12 2014 05:34 WaveofShadow wrote:
Asmo, consider that the conclusions MB draws on me have nothing to do with the misunderstanding at all, nor does his current three 'feel-based' scumreads. My answer of which was constructed was to answer a question put forward to be my one Mr. Ketchup. I answered and I also prefaced that they are 100% not based on anything because D1 arguments are really silly anyway. On October 12 2014 05:54 WaveofShadow wrote:
open bluefishing Google says it means going fishing for bluefish which is confusing. Does this mean something specific in mafia? Can you give any other people if we exclude Wave from the list please? Who else seems scummy to you so far?
Unless by this you just meant the original three he didn't discuss much.
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Reading through this monster:
Asmo's post was so obviously scummy it didn't need pointing out? Then how come nobody did until I did, and then barely anyone reacted to it after I pointed it out?
I wouldn't say relying on soniv so much as it is difficult for me to gain ground when so many people have no idea how to play and immediately accuse me when I am very obviously town. As soniv for the most gets it (and I have played with him before,) I suppose I am relying on him a little more than I should for support)
+ Show Spoiler +I still disagree with your saying I haven't done anything before that point; I drove conversation which wasn't happening at all (constantly grilling/commenting will do that) and posting my own thoughts and reads constantly so as to establish my overwhelming towniness---this is neithe rhere nor there however and is really irrelevant discussion. It just annoys me that you think I haven't done shit. As far as me being bad---what are you basing that on exactly? I know exactly why I am bad but I'm curious as to why you seem to think so now.
As for your other reads:
Won't lynch Tolkien today, would lynch Jeff but at that point it's policy because he's doing dick all, same as Coma/owb and whatnot.
I see what you're saying about Asmo---could probably actually lynch into any of the top three you suggested though I'd balk a little at Alzadar for reasons I gave earlier.
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On October 12 2014 07:17 jcarlsoniv wrote:
so are you voting Asmo, Alaric?
That post only has slightly more useful information than MoonBear's. Lots of "suspicious" isn't really worth mentioning, you should be suspicious of everyone. Even "very suspicious" is pretty noncommittal for someone who's top on your scum list.
Wat---this is WAY more useful than MB---and considering you're voting for MB at the moment I'm not sure how you can only offer a bare distinction. If you're getting at semantics then forget the fact that he says suspicious a lot and look at who he specifically names as scum reads and in which order.
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On October 12 2014 07:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
TBH the reason I'm avoiding actually saying anything substantial is because I suck at the game and want to play my cards close to my chest until I legitimately learn what good ideas even are in this game.
But nobody else is able to throw around anything but baseless conjecture anyways so I don't think that I'm really that far behind in terms of actual tangible contribution.
I was trying intentionally to aggravate Wave to bait him into telling me more about the game without me actually asking, in order for me to get better. Wave gets mad in this game really easily though so tbh there was a lot of entertainment value there.
One thing I have noticed, is that Coma hasn't been speaking. Is there a precedent for lurkers being scum?
Yeah that wasn't obvious in the slightest. Just play the damn game.
Yes lurkers can be scum, no, there's no good way of knowing.
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On October 12 2014 07:39 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2014 07:27 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 12 2014 07:17 jcarlsoniv wrote:
so are you voting Asmo, Alaric?
That post only has slightly more useful information than MoonBear's. Lots of "suspicious" isn't really worth mentioning, you should be suspicious of everyone. Even "very suspicious" is pretty noncommittal for someone who's top on your scum list. Wat---this is WAY more useful than MB---and considering you're voting for MB at the moment I'm not sure how you can only offer a bare distinction. If you're getting at semantics then forget the fact that he says suspicious a lot and look at who he specifically names as scum reads and in which order. Oh , the fact that Alaric actually came to conclusions is wonderful. I suppose it's more useful than I let on, but still, at it's core it's a big list post, which I tend to dislike.
Better than Asmo's
I really don't want to lurker/policy lynch today and I'm hoping it doesn't come to that.
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On October 12 2014 07:47 Alaric wrote:
Eh trying to get people to talk like that without asking doesn't bother me, I mean if you just look at the concept itself I find it amusing, but I'm not the best example since I like shittalking people for fun. ^^'
The "you're bad" was an innocent jab for once, Wave, kind of "Well I'm not quite sure, so that probably means that you really aren't good otherwise you'd have already convinced me!".
As for my vote, Asmo, Alzadar and Moonbear are pretty much on the grill already. I've just thrown some stuff at Asmo so there's still to see him reac tot that. Hence why I'm more looking toward Coma/owb/Ghandi/Tolkien atm (well Ghandi answered somewhat just now).
... I guess you could argue that if you grilling Alzadar then moving onto Moonbear after other people start banwagonning against him makes me weary, saying Asmo is my biggest scum read but then devoting my attention to others is hypocritical. Uh... I prob have to reconsider some stuff.
Alternatively if the lurkers post I won't have to wait for them. x)
Well I wasn't insulted, just curious 
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.brendazguiberson.com/images/books/moonbear-b.jpg)
