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It seems there is a strong difference in Goodkarma's play regarding his two scumreads. I feel he ended up focusing much more on Haru than on WoS, and that after criticizing Haru for nullreading WoS for that.
Like, the one thing GoodKarma had to expect in his opinion was that Haru would scumread WoS with a -1.
I think that if they wanted to nullread somebody as opposed to scumreading him, then scum would prefer ścumreading the townie and null reading the other scum.
If that's what GK might think, too, then he must just feel as strongly scummy about Wave than he does for Haru, cause just then nullreading WoS might show a scum motive.
However all we are left with Goodkarma vs Wave is:
Your scumread and dunno read have been pretty active in thread. Kinda curious you haven't had anything to say to them.
WoS wrote this before GK posted that:
Scum: Haru---his defense of me is awkward and he immediately backtracks on it when given an out. Rubs me in completely the wrong direction
So they both scumread the same guy, Wave says what he found scummy about Haru, but GoodKarma still asks him that.
Besides, I don't really like the reason WoS is using there for scumreading Haru, so I'm surprised Goodkarma wouldn't also try to get more interactions with WoS aside from that sort of loaded post.
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On August 05 2014 00:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Vivax, correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds to me like you're making an unflipped association between GK and WoS which seems to be the foundation to your case.
I wouldn't really call it a case yet, I prefer to call it observations the mentioned people have to react to.
I realize that it could come from a town perspective to prefer one guy over the other, maybe cause he got tired and stopped playing when he could talk to wave, or that he got tunneled in the process of talking to Haru, but that kind of doesn't apply in my logic where hf and gk in my opinion excessively rode on the -1 + 1, since I experienced Haru using those numbers that make sense to nobody else to describe his reads as town previously.
It seems to me like it was nitpicking, and something that could be picked up by anyone if he so wanted, and doesn't prove a thing to me regarding Haru except that his reasoning there has holes, but not necessarily scummy holes.
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On August 05 2014 01:06 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +but that kind of doesn't apply in my logic where hf and gk in my opinion excessively rode on the -1 + 1 I made 1 post on the -1+1 and that wasn't even a reason to scum read him? my other post that you shut down was to do with him addressing a meta read with generalisations that did not apply to the actual meta read I made. The rest of my scum read is entirely to do with his contentless filter. Why are you making it sound like we're ott attacking him?
You automatically expect him to accept your argument and if he gives you his own interpretation, which he later thinks about again, he's supposed to be scummy for it.
Since your interpretation of Wave's entrance was in my opinion way too simple, like kush agreed with, then Haru doesn't really owe you an answer for why he wants to nullread Wave cause he doesn't believe your argument for *reasons*.
Plus, good luck showing that his filter has no content. It's a statement anyone can make but nobody can prove, good luck posting the nothingness you see.
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I'm actually more interested into rolling out the WoS issue again.
He called you a straight out liar, although probably town, and says he could find such a thing in 80 % of his games.
You confidently said he wouldn't be able to.
What I miss here is a reaction to his post, trying to further push the issue. Are you really satisfied with you still being unsure about Wave when he gets mad at you and simply puts his word against yours? Did you lie or is he lying? Did he do it as town earlier or didn't he?
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Here, you plebs:
I find Wave still scummy, discuss.
Emotional longish answer to HF that leads to nowhere between the two, and then a list of reads that reads like "here's my stuff, ok? Bye". It looks cooked and doesn't really say a thing, doesn't look for answers. That's my issue with that post.
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On August 05 2014 01:26 justanothertownie wrote:
It feels like some ancient philosophers are battling it out right now.
Thanks to you I ended up having chewed food on the floor.
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On August 05 2014 01:40 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2014 01:35 Vivax wrote:
Here, you plebs:
I find Wave still scummy, discuss.
Emotional longish answer to HF that leads to nowhere between the two, and then a list of reads that reads like "here's my stuff, ok? Bye". It looks cooked and doesn't really say a thing, doesn't look for answers. That's my issue with that post. how familiar are you with Wave's play in general? Do you think this is out of the ordinary for him?
I don't know if he does that more often as either alignment, I just know that it seems hasty and that he seems content to sit on a conclusion and a not-conclusion without further inquiries, devoting most of his post to a call out to HF that doesn't really find resonance. It's almost as if he had made that last part in a hurry.
Then Eden asks him out more precisely about it, and Wave explains why Haru's post is scared scum, the backtrack and blahblah, and I don't know why I just don't like those posts of his after the big one.
Easy towncred when called out for defending everyone else's apparent scumread so he can say 'lulz why would I hard defend someone everyone else is attacking as scum' but more damning is the grabbing the quick out as soon as he could when attention trundle to him. It's pretty basic scared scumplay IMO, guy made a play and felt like it might have backfired/wants to play safe and get on everyone's good site now. See conversation with GK for example.
If I look at Haru's post, I don't feel like he's being scared at all, he's simply conversing with HF and rethinking part of his argumentation loudly.
It's simply a complete one-sided representation of Haru's play here:
nullreads wave -> It's a defense for towncred
states that wave wouldn't be happy about rolling scum -> backtracking
backtracking -> scared scum
tries to get on everyone's good side
Not happy about this stuff at all.
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Hf what did wave do to give you such a strong preference of Haru over him.
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On August 05 2014 05:46 WaveofShadow wrote:
Oh yeah a lot of weir pd shit surrounding. Haru
It really doesn't mseem that complicated to me, and I think people we're saying my posts about him were bad? Maybe Eden?
Gotta look back and refute dat shit when I get the chance
I did. I said that you only tried to put things from a scummy perspective that doesn't really seem to consider if he is indeed scum, cause there are also townie explanations for the behaviour.
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WoS no progress on your haru reread?
Do me a favour and compare this statement with his filter:
On August 05 2014 04:40 Holyflare wrote:
i literally don't understand how anyone can look at haru's 3 PAGE FILTER and say that he has contributed anything but generic mafia responses of setup talk and asking people for their scum reads over and over again
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On August 05 2014 08:13 WaveofShadow wrote:
Well I'll look over that along with vivaxs stuff soon
Probably a little over an hour
Don't go to sleep hun
Dude stop posting promises please, it looks terrible. A man townie just does stuff without telling us beforehand he's gonna do something, cause it's not some tiring work, it's his desire to solve the game that drives him.
I don't post this at every occasion but it's a recurring thing in your filter imho.
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Artanis why can't you always be active like this and only when summoned
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On August 05 2014 09:35 goodkarma wrote:
A couple people in my absence mentioned it was odd to them I wasn't present. Well, I'm back. I know this is hard to believe, but I'm not available to play this game with you every moment of the day.
I don't like lynching Haru anymore. And given Obi has recently posted semi-respectable non-troll posts, I'd like to give him a chance.
WoS/Poofter still look like good lynches. Both have promised posts soon. Feel free to ask me anything, but I'm waiting on these too to deliver said promised posts.
Yeah gimme a rundown of what changed your mind and how you feel about HF being so stubborn on Haru.
I found his post I quoted to be quite the stretch since I was able to find a couple of reads in Haru's filter. I admit not much but it still didn't warrant HF saying that the guy hasn't been doing anything.
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Not sure yet, waiting for Wave to deliver something more substantial at the moment.
As for you, I have a hard time telling if you're just saying stuff to keep your story straight, you seem to try kinda hard to stay very consistent in your play but I'm not sure if it's me being tunneled or a fact.
Hence it would be helpful for me to know how you want to read Haru if you feel that he's super scummy on one and townie on the other hand. How do you get to the conclusion that his reaction was townie, for example?
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WoS still have to see you act up on that sort of FoS you placed on GK early. How do you read him currently.
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On August 05 2014 10:32 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2014 10:19 Vivax wrote:
Not sure yet, waiting for Wave to deliver something more substantial at the moment.
As for you, I have a hard time telling if you're just saying stuff to keep your story straight, you seem to try kinda hard to stay very consistent in your play but I'm not sure if it's me being tunneled or a fact.
Hence it would be helpful for me to know how you want to read Haru if you feel that he's super scummy on one and townie on the other hand. How do you get to the conclusion that his reaction was townie, for example? I actually can't recall a game where you haven't thought I'm scum. You must really really hate my playstyle... I've told you exactly how I've read Haru. How a person comes off towny is a semi-subjective thing. Generally when a person curses and screams at their tunneler in the way Haru did it's a town response. It's not a foolproof read by any means, but reads of this ilk have historically served me well. If you're a skeptic, just go with my latter reason (he easily could have just made a scumread up). It's totally valid here. Haru isn't a good lynch today. And saying you don't know who you want to lynch when the thread's already ~40 pages, and the day's half gone is pretty weak. If you were forced to choose now, who would it be? This question really isn't that hard.
I would be lying if I said I had no scumreads. I'm simply not confident into them yet. Still in the process of deciding on you and WoS, and that's evident, so don't call my play "weak" just cause I don't go guns blazing on you guys, which is something you should actually value if you are town, since I give myself space for reconsideration.
Implying I'm doing something scummy with what I'm doing in your regards isn't something I would expect from a townie in your position to be honest. You see this guy talking to his persons of interest, but not dead set on lynching them, and the first thing coming to your mind is that the play is "weak"?
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Btw what's the super scummy stuff you talk about in regard to Haru, when I look at your filter I see you in conversation with him and when I asked you, you said you found it a bit odd what he was doing.
Not really a post where you showcase A to B how what he was doing was super scummy so if you really feel that way it might be a good time to display what it is.
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Like, you put it out there that I could be scum for some unknown reason, then some guy says something about him being indifferent about me and you go all like "yes, yes precisely", then kush says why he thinks I'm town and you go "he does that shit all the time at mafia".
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I'm just going to say this: I'm going to do my thing in the next hours, but if you think I'm scum then you've either become bad at this game or scum.
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EPT
