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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On July 17 2014 00:23 Holyflare wrote: Kinda prefered the shadow game (not the switch around bit) for the newbie aspect. yeah i think that format was way better. hydra games are quite dumb. you don't really learn anything as a newbie, especially as mafia. | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
On July 17 2014 00:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: GlowingBear it looked like you made up stuff on the fly (Haru's comments on D1 didn't really help ^^) and you were insecure of giving "hard" reads. When i read your D1 posts, what i saw was "someone is scum because they act nice".....?!?!? Then you voted for me. Except that you should have also called Palmar scum because he made the same case i did. In fact Palmar should have been more scummy because he was "nice" (for not voting - which you later on called OTHER team out for).  Just try to be more confident. There is nothing scummy in being wrong. People are wrong as town all the time. Thanks, Rayn! that "being nice" reasoning is the one I got from my last game. I guess it's a good way to find scum but it sucks as primary argument. This game was really a lesson. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
Replacements should be also be done more carefully. But replacing is always better than modkill? | ||
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IAmRobik
United States5878 Posts
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IAmRobik
United States5878 Posts
That shit was so bad and so wrong and so convoluted lol | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On July 17 2014 00:26 GlowingBear wrote: Thanks, Rayn! that "being nice" reasoning is the one I got from my last game. I guess it's a good way to find scum but it sucks as primary argument. This game was really a lesson.It depends on the players. Sure newer players as scum tend to be more careful and just try to blend in iwthout actually calling anyone mafia. But when you play more games and start have a lot of meta on people you notice that some people work in different ways and have different playstyles. After all it comes down to who makes sense and who does not, why people say the stuff they say and does it make sense or not. There really are no "universal scumtells" as everyone is different. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On July 17 2014 00:31 IAmRobik wrote: I might have to nominate myself for worst case: the case on why Rayn is town That shit was so bad and so wrong and so convoluted lol I kinda wanted to claim mafia at that point just to say "FUCK YOU!" | ||
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IAmRobik
United States5878 Posts
you didn't use a smiley in your first post you didn't say you were town or were happy that you rolled town or that town was going to win you spited me when you posted a spoiler of a bunch of smiley faces you tried to get someone to take a quick stance for no good reason | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
Careful about discussing too much policy early on. You comment about the Kenpachi rule multiple times, scum hunting vs town hunting several times, and whatever the "chupazi rule" is. Scum players had the opportunity of attacking you for lacking a opinions. Your first read came late into the first day. I know it's tough to scum hunt early on, but try to provide opinions whenever you can to be a bit more transparent. In your first legitimate post, you identified four targets you were suspicious of, all of which were town. Maybe go back and reflect on what you misinterpreted there. I also think you spent a bit too much effort defending yourself early on in the game, rather than providing content that could be used to lynch mafia. Explaining why you are town to a mafia slender doesn't accomplish much and by the time you finished, it seems like you didn't have time for anything else. At one point, you share your mafia read on slender and later rayn. However, it took someone asking you about this first. If you have a mafia read, share it with the thread, explain your thought process, and follow through with it. If your case is being ignored, call specific indviduals out to evaluate your points and explain why they agree or disagree. I really liked how you guys swapped to rayn/slender at the end because he was your strongest read, rather than lynching poofter for the sake of the check. Obviously, you don't want to every claim parity cop if you don't have to since you don't know about a protective role. The mafia obviously played a role in pushing your lynch, but try to identify why certain townies were voting for you and what you could have done different earlier on. Overall you played pretty well though. In most cases, effort is king and you did pretty well on that front. | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
The downside is that it gets much more meta focused, and that's not good for newbies because that's just impression on someone vets are used to play. It does not make us evolve as a player, it only gives us experience regarding the vets. We evolve our "vets reading" but not evolve "game playing". I don't know if I am clear here... | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
On July 17 2014 00:35 kitaman27 wrote: @GlowingBear Careful about discussing too much policy early on. You comment about the Kenpachi rule multiple times, scum hunting vs town hunting several times, and whatever the "chupazi rule" is. Scum players had the opportunity of attacking you for lacking a opinions. Your first read came late into the first day. I know it's tough to scum hunt early on, but try to provide opinions whenever you can to be a bit more transparent. In your first legitimate post, you identified four targets you were suspicious of, all of which were town. Maybe go back and reflect on what you misinterpreted there. I also think you spent a bit too much effort defending yourself early on in the game, rather than providing content that could be used to lynch mafia. Explaining why you are town to a mafia slender doesn't accomplish much and by the time you finished, it seems like you didn't have time for anything else. At one point, you share your mafia read on slender and later rayn. However, it took someone asking you about this first. If you have a mafia read, share it with the thread, explain your thought process, and follow through with it. If your case is being ignored, call specific indviduals out to evaluate your points and explain why they agree or disagree. I really liked how you guys swapped to rayn/slender at the end because he was your strongest read, rather than lynching poofter for the sake of the check. Obviously, you don't want to every claim parity cop if you don't have to since you don't know about a protective role. The mafia obviously played a role in pushing your lynch, but try to identify why certain townies were voting for you and what you could have done different earlier on. Overall you played pretty well though. In most cases, effort is king and you did pretty well on that front. Thank you, kita! Very insightful. I'm going to check my misinterpretations. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On July 17 2014 00:36 GlowingBear wrote: From my newbie POV, this game pushed me to the limits because vets have a very conversational behaviour, it was really hard to keep up reading the chatting. It's hard because faking town for vets is really easy and their accusations are really difficult to avoid. So, this is a very good game for newbies. Also, with a veteran playing with you, they are much more engaged on the game and more helpful because they teach juniors specific topics, which I think is not very well discussed with coaches. The downside is that it gets much more meta focused, and that's not good for newbies because that's just impression on someone vets are used to play. It does not make us evolve as a player, it only gives us experience regarding the vets. We evolve our "vets reading" but not evolve "game playing". I don't know if I am clear here... I get your points and i think you are right. Basically if you want to "learn" on what to look for and how to post or scumhunt on D1 you can shadow me in the Twitterverse Mini Mafia (in case Blazinghand allows that). You follow the game, we would have a QT and i tell you why i think someone is mafia and why i post what i do. It doesn't even matter if i am town or mafia because i tend to post quite similarly on D1. Ignore robik because i do all of those things as both alignments and that's not really behavioural analysis. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Stay and play more, won't you. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On July 17 2014 00:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: You meant to say "don't join games with 4am deadline in the first place AND replace out when something that you can't control happens." I just hate replacing out. It's so dirty when you can actually meet the activity requirements. Ah I suppose that would be a bit rough. Sounds like you need to move.  | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On July 17 2014 00:47 kitaman27 wrote: Ah I suppose that would be a bit rough. Sounds like you need to move. no i just need Artanis to host more games | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
On July 17 2014 00:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: I get your points and i think you are right. Basically if you want to "learn" on what to look for and how to post or scumhunt on D1 you can shadow me in the Twitterverse Mini Mafia (in case Blazinghand allows that). You follow the game, we would have a QT and i tell you why i think someone is mafia and why i post what i do. It doesn't even matter if i am town or mafia because i tend to post quite similarly on D1. Ignore robik because i do all of those things as both alignments and that's not really behavioural analysis. I'd love to do that! I'm going to pm him. @marv: thanks! I'm loving playing this game and I'll definetely play more. I'll wait for the next newbie game (I think I should play those 4 before jumping into vets games) | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22634 Posts
On July 13 2014 08:58 Palmar wrote: Btw, if I self-meta my shitty town play, I reach the conclusion mafia teams must be a) chairman ray/koshi b) rayn/slender why? Because I haven't read shit from those teams as nothing they've said sounds important at all. I always ignore mafia because they never say anything fun, so if I am correct that I always ignore mafia, these teams must be mafia. QED get logickd. | ||
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OnceKing
United States939 Posts
First off I think the game is quite townsided. The reason why I feel this way is because of the numbers -- the amount of townies is doubled making it much easier to PoE the game. I know that the number of scum is doubled too but I feel like doubling the amount of scum had less of an impact. AND the RNG took an enormous dump on mafia, holy shit. That's just bad luck. So as I said at the beginning of the game Eden and I confirmed each other instantly by him doing Kenpachi Rule and me sheeping it. I'm telling you that we can get such strong townreads off of each other for the stupidest things, once irl I got up to use the restroom and he townread me for it. So from there I just wanted to push whatever discussion was available. Eventually discussion led me to push the lynch on Slamroot who I had a huge part in mislynching. I know Robik thinks that I was just bandwagoning w/ him and Eden but the fact is that I was on Slamroot before anyone else for my own reasoning and while I didn't spam one liners to try to get people to vote him I said more than anyone else on him. I want to apologize to them for this. I was trying to be as fair as possible, I was almost absolutely sure they were scum but I guess sqrt and slam must have felt pretty persecuted. When they refused to explain their reads I was just like... there's just no way they're town. It's impossible. If they had said something instead of giving up I'd like to think that I would have reconsidered. But for the life of me I can't remember a single personal attack I did on them, the worst I did was say that a response was useless. Anyway my entire game was thrown off once Slamroot flipped town ROFL... after that I was paranoid of everyone except for Eden. Unfortunately Palmiform who I was quite sure was town died also, marvderg I was on the fence about so... worked out ok for me. I honestly expected Eden or myself to die though marv's notes from earlier about how we were both incredibly wrong d1 make sense as to why neither of us were shot. After that I waffled for just way too long because lots of people looked pretty town and I just didn't know what direction to go. At several points in time I tinfoiled Robik scum with Rayn, then Robik scum with Haru (ESPECIALLY AFTER THE FAKECLAIM LOL, I only realized it was really townie after I took a step back), etc. Robik when he was actually being helpful this game I liked, Robik when he was talking about how he was a townie I didn't like. So at this point, knowing Eden and myself were town I thought: mafia is fucked if they keep us together at LYLO. Because we can't be made to turn on each other, and yet neither of us has been shot so the people who look worst to me are people who are trying to throw doubt on either of us (to convince everyone else that one of us is scum though we confirmed each other a zillion times over). These players were: bunnies, ExO, artanis. I can't really blame artanis for this though as he replaced in. Speaking of which, another thought crossed my mind where replacements are statistically more likely to be scum, so the double slot replace made me think you guys were even more likely to be mafia... lol. Too bad I didn't say anything, so I guess it doesn't count. So I tentatively followed onto bunnies. Then poof as town as fuck. So I followed his case onto Haru and honestly had Haru never made the posts on Rayn and Koshi (even though he turned out to be right) I would have never done that. But then the claims came out and from there imo the game was pretty much solved. At that point, there was nothing the mafia could do imo. At that point mafia has to kill three people -- Haru the cop, Eden the jailer and me who can better than anyone decipher the Will of Eden and his breadcrumbs. They probably didn't realize they have to kill me though lmao. At this point I would have taken a flip over a save as stupid as it sounds. The remaining teams were: Robik/HF OK/Sinani Eden/gk poof/bunnies koshi/artanis haru/gb Because of Eden's breadcrumb from WAY back I knew that Eden wasn't going to jail haru/gb. But there's no mafia with the balls to NOT shoot either the claimed jailer or claimed medic lol. Just... no scum team is ever going to call that bluff when they can get the guaranteed kill on the jailer. So after Eden flips haru gets back his check. I know haru is legit cop because his beef with rayn meant that it couldn't be scum/scum interaction. If he gets back a "same" check then it confirms bunnies and someone else as town, if he gets back a different we just lynch into two teams with two lynches. Once rayn flipped the game was impossible for mafia to win. Eden and I basically became super god-tier confirmed town for that switch. Personally I'm a bit disappointed in myself for faltering so much on day 2. I didn't impact the game at all during those 48 hours except for the very end when I decided to take a stand -- even though that stand turned out to be incorrect, I feel that it eventually led us to the win. So in the end even though I was wrong on Slamroot I should trust in myself more anyway. Thanks to kita and TicaTica for a fun game. Thanks to all the other players for playing with me too. EDEN WE DID IT BRAH | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
You didn't read anything Palmar. | ||
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IAmRobik
United States5878 Posts
Palmar's so good he doesn't have to read games | ||
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