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On July 11 2014 10:40 batsnacks wrote:
That's weird. He said this twice:
OBIWAN SAID:
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some people have pointed out that ritoky is forced, and i agree, but i do think that its really early to be forming some kind of read on him at this stage because people call him weird for the exact same reason every game.
"
"
nb the reason nobody is listening to your ritoky case is because the ritoky case ends up being the exact same thing people push him for every game.
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Hey bats, you can use the "quote" function (found top right corner of posts) to get instant formatted timestamped quotes, just so you know.
You've played with the group right? Could you give me a general feels of ritoky, and if what obiwan said is legitimately something that happens or not?
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I dunno if it's b/c layabout said so, but I am less enthused of a ritoky lynch. He has been suspicious of yamato from the start of the game so his progressive read into yamato is scum at N1 makes sense.
My choice of lynch right now would be HiroPro for this post:
On July 10 2014 11:04 HiroPro wrote:
sup. I read the thread.
anyway, I think you guys are missing the boat on VE. I'm more interested in how VE went from saying that he wasn't interested in lynching anyone who was active to lynching the second-most active player in this game (iamperfection). The reasons that he gave don't appear very strong at all and he only said anything about the guy when sloosh prompted him to.
The entry read very out of place for me. We had like a super long D1 ending in a mislynch, and he casually saunters in with his 2nd post of the whole game, and says he read the thread. This is a feels read. I dunno how accurate my feels are but that's where they are.
His read on VE fits in with my evaluation of how the game has been unfolding, and just generally for someone who has been absent for close to a hundred pages or so, he isn't really trying to do much.
Scum skirting by kinda attitude.
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Ehh maybe it's just mderg for not instantly realizing that VE voted ObiWanShinobi and is super unlikely to be scum.
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On July 11 2014 14:48 HiroPro wrote:
Let's imagine that you're a mafia player who got caught with his pants down like this.
Do you:
a) fake-claim
b) ignore any questions as to why you lied
c) try to out some power roles
d) all of the above
Explain.
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Right now I'm most comfortable with an mderg lynch.
On July 11 2014 11:12 slOosh wrote:
Ehh maybe it's just mderg for not instantly realizing that VE voted ObiWanShinobi and is super unlikely to be scum.
Let me expound:
On July 11 2014 00:25 mderg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2014 00:12 Vivax wrote:
So your scumreads are Cora, forum and yamato?
Do you still scumread yamato? You forgot VE. He was on ObiWanShinobi, right? Then I´m not sure about him anymore. Not impossible that they´re scumbuddies but unlikely.
Context: D2 (pg 94~95), Vivax asks mderg to clarify his scumreads. Additionally he asks if mderg still scumreads yamato (presumably asking about mderg's interpretation of the Obiwan flip).
Mderg responds "you forgot VE". As in, "VE is still a scumread".
Then he says of yamato, "he was on ObiWanShinobi, right?", and then retracts his scumread on yamato based on his voting of ObiWan and the unlikelyhood of a bus.
Checkpoint: At this post, mderg knows that ObiWan flipped scum. I say this because he is doing this slow reading thing, and it's not at all clear where he is and while really annoying, it's something to consider. He has read the D2 daypost and knows ObiWan flipped scum.
The way the phrasing happens, mderg is recalling from memory the D1 stuff. "yamato was on Obi right?"
Night 1, p90:
On July 10 2014 08:44 mderg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2014 23:51 VisceraEyes wrote:
I actually like yamato and I'm nullish leaning town on prplhz, so I'm actually gonna stop pushing mderg becase A) I'm not getting any support for it and B) because ObiWan is an equally good lynch fmp. So yeah.
##Unvote
##Vote: ObiWanShinobi This looks really bad to me. Considering how convinced you were of me being scum this unvote was surprisingly easy. I also can´t really grasp your reasons for voting ObiWanShinobi. I think you mentioned him 1 time before that vote and that mention didn´t look like a scumread to me. So you decide to change your vote from your biggest scumread to someone who somehow is an equally good lynch. There is a lack of explanation and it doesn´t make you look very townie.
mderg's scumread on VE is precisely because VE moved his vote off him (mderg) onto Obiwan. So mderg knows that VE voted ObiWan. Yet when he reconsiders yamato as potential town for being on ObiWan, he does not mention VE at all! The read that should have changed first doesn't change!
What's my point?
mderg is scum because he is inconsistent. The information he holds and the way he interprets it is inconsistent with his reads. Town don't do that. Scum do that.
##Vote: mderg
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On July 11 2014 16:03 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2014 15:51 slOosh wrote:On July 11 2014 14:48 HiroPro wrote:
Let's imagine that you're a mafia player who got caught with his pants down like this.
Do you:
a) fake-claim
b) ignore any questions as to why you lied
c) try to out some power roles
d) all of the above Explain. Koshi would have been a prime target for medics/protective roles last night. By claiming to track someone to Koshi, but not giving a name, you encourage anyone who did so to out themselves. If no one claims, no harm, you're already in deep shit anyway.
This makes no sense. Why would a blue out themselves before BM claims anything?
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On July 11 2014 16:37 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2014 16:29 slOosh wrote:On July 11 2014 16:03 HiroPro wrote:On July 11 2014 15:51 slOosh wrote:On July 11 2014 14:48 HiroPro wrote:
Let's imagine that you're a mafia player who got caught with his pants down like this.
Do you:
a) fake-claim
b) ignore any questions as to why you lied
c) try to out some power roles
d) all of the above Explain. Koshi would have been a prime target for medics/protective roles last night. By claiming to track someone to Koshi, but not giving a name, you encourage anyone who did so to out themselves. If no one claims, no harm, you're already in deep shit anyway. This makes no sense. Why would a blue out themselves before BM claims anything? Because people on TL love to claim for the slightest reason? You should know this by now. Anyway your case on mderg seems pretty ticky-tacky. It's not all clear from what you quoted whether mderg was still expressing a mafia read on VE then or whether mderg was saying that Vivax had forgotten that mderg had expressed a previous mafia read on VE.
Garbo soft defense HiroPro, it's pretty clear that Vivax asked him for current scum reads (hence his use of the present tense), Try again.
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On July 11 2014 16:51 HiroPro wrote:
w/e. there's no point in me discussing this with you any further when he should be the one talking about himself. But I think you're seriously mistaken if you think that shows anything, especially when he's not a native english speaker.
Do you have any town explanation for BM's behavior?
*Soft defends mderg multiple times*
"he should be the one talking about himself"
*defends him again in the same post*
And yes I have reasons to believe BM is more likely town than scum, but that is independent of mderg's alignment.
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I'm gonna go to sleep now because I'm pretty tilted by the fact that HiroPro dismissed my case on the basis that mderg might not be able to speak english well. Like really.
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On July 11 2014 16:56 prplhz wrote:
##Vote Bill Murray
confirmed liars get lynched
sloosh, thoughts on damdred and my case and some very very good reason you think the confirmed liar is town
Town sometimes lie. You can argue that it's wrong and stupid but it doesn't change the fact that sometimes town lie. Sometimes for baits, sometimes cause they just forget, sometimes for other reasons.
Ver says it himself in how to improve:
On August 26 2010 13:08 Ver wrote:Also, this is a good point to address the misconception that 'lying=mafia,' which is clearly not the case. I lie all the time as town, and much more rarely as mafia. Some may condemn this as inferior play, but lying, among other 'anti-town plays,' lets you open new routes of play that are ordinarily inaccessible if you behave as a 'perfect townie.' Most of the time you have to take a risk if you want to win. Of course the execution is everything, as lying for no gain is just going to make it harder for the town to do anything. And of course, many town players will lie on accident, without reason, or for some bizarre reason or another that you have no way of knowing. A point that will be emphasized continuously is the necessity to differentiate between mafia and bad townie play. You can't just lynch people and when they pop green excuse yourself by saying 'oh they were anti-town anyways.' The goal is to kill mafia, period.
So I don't see him claiming to be roleblocked alignment indicative, since it could have town motivations or scum motivations.
I think it is unlikely that BM is scum because ObiWanShinobi's one scum read was BM. I really doubt that the one actual read that scum holds among all null reads is on a teammate, especially when you don't anticipate your death.
As for Damdred, I'm more hesitant of the lynch because he came from a different site where playstyles and habits and whatnot might just straight up be different. I agree he is laidback and doesn't have strong convictions, but I could see town doing that too.
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K, sleeping before I start getting caustic.
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On July 12 2014 01:47 ritoky wrote:
VE, how do you feel about sloosh and his push on low hanging fruit?
Decent heuristic but only when applied with proper context. Read my posts on my interpretation of how D1 went to see how I came to that conclusion.
That said, could you please give your thoughts on mderg, HiroPro and BM?
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I second the sentiment.
I understand wanting to max out day lengths, but right now momentum is slowing down and I don't really know what people want more time to discuss exactly.
Also he is voting exo for not considering him scum. Doesn't make sense.
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Wow that's basically my list. Except I put Exo higher b/c vote on ObiWan but ehh
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Not quite following you there Toad.
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VE, it's cause like we want to carpet bomb a good 3~5 players, and all our preferences are slightly different.
Sinani you should mason me and VE.
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By the way I'm WIFOMing out of my mind here
On July 11 2014 12:44 sinani206 wrote:
what if the mason targeted robik and prpl/koshi and then the action got shifted
On July 11 2014 13:28 Bill Murray wrote:
hmm On July 11 2014 13:31 Bill Murray wrote:
I was waiting on someone to talk who I tracked to Koshi last night
Should I say who?
Like, BM sees sinani do this, and then he outs him ...
Yea I don't get it. Scum BM that tracks blue role sinani and then publically outs him? I don't think it's good town play, but I'm finding difficult mafia motivations.
GUHHH WHY BILL MURRAY DO YOU TORMENT ME SO
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uhh that should read
*I'm finding it difficult to find mafia motivations to do this*
I'm finding bad town motivations to do it.
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On July 13 2014 02:58 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2014 02:49 slOosh wrote:
uhh that should read
*I'm finding it difficult to find mafia motivations to do this*
I'm finding bad town motivations to do it. You're finding it difficult to find mafia motivations for mafia to fake-claim a town investigative role? Really?
It's not a fake claim. He actually somehow knows sinani visited Koshi.
So if scum the team somehow has a tracker role (unless you think sinani is scum, which is a possibility).
If BM was scum tracker and saw that sinani had some blue power, he could just have shot him instead of outing him.
Hence the WIFOM. What does outing sinani try to accomplish? It's not like sinani's gonna get lynched.
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Scum BM and scum sinani feels comfortable in my mind.
Scum BM and town sinani less so.
Eh thoughts on sinani?
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EPT
