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Detention Mafia - Page 2

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 28 2014 11:11 GMT
#440
Don't ask hard questions Chrom, he might not have an answer right now.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 28 2014 12:11 GMT
#443
On May 28 2014 20:37 Chromatically wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2014 20:11 Palmar wrote:
Don't ask hard questions Chrom, he might not have an answer right now.

hue hue hue

Palmar, you still feeling good about this lynch?


Amiko, I don't see you pushing anything. Who do you want to lynch and what's your read on jabber?


I don't know.

I think we have to lynch him. He's flailing so much and saying all the wrong things even after coming back to the thread makes it hard to think he will 100% flip mafia. If he is mafia he is not receiving any help from coaches or teammates.

On May 28 2014 01:14 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2014 20:59 Chromatically wrote:
Also, read this whole page again: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=5

bunnies starts by (presumably) joking about me being scum, not a serious push as evidenced by not voting.

On May 27 2014 11:19 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Both of you make a fair point, but I agree with bunnies.
If he's lurking (he probably is) he'll be quick to post something, which we can further use as more information comes to light

This is jabber's passive-agressive response. "he probably is" heavily implies that jabber has a strong scumread on me, which clearly doesn't make sense given that I've made one completely non-alignment indicative post. From a scum perspective, it makes sense for jabber to try to go with the flow of the thread and throw suspicion on me, but accidentally take it too far.

On May 27 2014 11:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Counter point: he could have been super into last game because he was mafia, and isn't as into being vanilla town.

On May 27 2014 11:21 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Definitely leaving towards scum though

Again, here he makes it seem as if he strongly thinks I'm scum, which just doesn't make sense unless he has a preset idea of what he wants to push my alignment as.

Lovely.
I was trying to get the game moving along, I was pretty pumped to start interrogating and scum reading, which isn't how I acted last game, when I was scum.
Lying about who was scum last game, I was trying to conceal information. I didn't realize that last game's roles were known, it would be beneficial for me if no one knew I was Mafia, just because there would be no real patterns of my play, and I could remain a wild card, which I thought could help me later.


This post specifically is so bad. If he is town this game it would have been directly in his benefit to make known he was mafia in the last game and then proceed to play like a townie. There is no benefit in concealing information about your playstyle as a townie. I'm not 100% caught up on the game so I don't know if he elaborated on how being a wild card might help him.

But the point is, he's doing that thing where he is almost too scummy to be scum. So if we get a slam-dunk case today I'm all ears. We actually might have one with MZ's overreaction and misinterpretation of my post against him, but we need to let it play out.

Thing is, too scummy to be scum is really hard to deal with. To my knowledge he's not providing any useful reads or cases, he sheeped i on the case on me with almost no explanation other than my initial vote being weird. Could he be a deer in headlights? Yes, absolutely.

But I'm not sure I want to gamble the game on just thinking he's too bad to be mafia. Maybe the explanation is simple and he is just mafia who fucked up. I haven't really read the setup but if we have a vigi it might be a good thing to not lynch him and shoot him.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 28 2014 12:12 GMT
#444
No vigis in setup so scratch that.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 28 2014 13:06 GMT
#446
On May 28 2014 21:54 Chromatically wrote:
So I agree that he's done absolutely everything wrong, but I don't really get "too scummy to be scum". Like he's done everything I would expect scum to do in his position. What do you think he would be doing differently as mafia? Or what about it makes you doubt that he's mafia as opposed to just sealing the deal?


The "too scummy to be scum" concept is a very fragile and shitty, but surprisingly often correct thing that happens.

The idea is basically that if he is mafia, his team knows he made a blunder, so they would help him devise a strategy to come back, or bus him.

if bus: I'd expect him to just shut up and not try to come back. Now I know I'm town but other people don't so this is weak from everyone else's perspective, but why on earth is he piling shit on me if his team is busing him. That is basically just helping me gain influcence in town. It's just bad play if he's mafia to give credit to a townie.

if they try to save him: I'd expect him/his team/mafia coach to have come up with a better plan than what he has posted. His arguments are just straight up awful, If the mafia team can't collectively think up some better defense than this well.. I just don't want to believe that.

And thus, he's being soooo awful that it's possible he's too scummy to be scum. He's blatantly wrong. He's hardly trying to cover up how awful his stuff is.

But, there's also the chance that he's just acting on his own, he messed up, he's not thinking long term and thought maybe a wagon could be built on me, and in that case he's just mafia who's playing badly.

Like I don't really like or see the point in speculating on this thing. If we have a slam dunk case on someone I'll support it, but currently I see no other outcome for today than lynching him.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 28 2014 13:07 GMT
#447
Like I'm more inclined to talk about something else, if you want to bring up a specific point. The MZ stuff is pretty good I think.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 28 2014 13:09 GMT
#449
On May 28 2014 22:07 mderg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2014 11:08 27ninjabunnies wrote:
On May 28 2014 10:59 Chromatically wrote:
this is quite possibly the finest scumhunting tl has seen in ages


Hey im scumhunting....

So im thinking,

Team for mafia:

Jabber/Sqrt/mderg

Or

Jabber/palmer/mderg

Something like that,

Id lynch both jabber and mderg though

I don´t get how defending jabber like I did would make any sense, if we were both scum. That would be like the worst mafia play ever. Me being scum only makes sense, if jabber flips town. I could see mafia reasons for that. But hard defending a scummate who will almost certainly be lynched anyway doesn´t seem like scum play.


*clap clap*

I hope you're mafia because if you are this post is amazing.

I'm giving you a townread for this.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 28 2014 13:37 GMT
#451
I don't think we know which setup was used.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 28 2014 14:50 GMT
#456
I feel pretty okay with the following people being probably town:

Chrom
mderp
i
Ninja
Haru

I think the following people are sort of scummy

fuba
MZ
Jjabber

rest I don't really know cause I haven't really read them enough (sloosh, slam, amiko, gobble).
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 28 2014 16:36 GMT
#466
I like me.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 28 2014 16:44 GMT
#468
Now that slam has explained to you why your case on me is incomplete at best but more likely invalid, do you want to stop calling me mafia?

This is a newbie game so I'm going to be real nice and explain why your thought process doesn't work.

My initial vote on Ninja was based on simply what I perceived to be a slightly different mood/tone from the first game. The "ugh" seemed to be genuine frustration followed just like 3 posts later by a "XD".

The last point of my initial case was what she asked "can we now hunt some scum" which I found in her filter and didn't know the context it was written in. I was assuming that she was asking people to scumhunt, instead of just doing so herself. However when I read the game I realized she was trying to shut down a really dumb tangent people were on.

If you can't tell by now, this case is obviously very flimsy and more of a prod than an actual case. If you read my interaction with gobble after that, it confirms my intention of opening a talking point.

When I came back to the thread, the Jabber thing had gone down, and Ninja made some post (I may have quoted it in myfilter, can't remember) that made me think she's probably town. So I retracted my scumread on her and focused on other things.

Does this explanation of events work for you?
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 28 2014 19:11 GMT
#494
Chrom so smart. #townhero
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 28 2014 23:38 GMT
#564
On May 29 2014 07:09 fuba wrote:
Looked at gobbledydook first, since his filter is shorter XD

His initial reaction to bunnies' case, as well as his follow-up reaction to Palmar seem to indicate that he didn't read the entire case against jabber before disagreeing with it (twice), which I don't feel bodes well for him. I think his jump on the wagon also seems kinda strange, since the reason is kinda lame. I mean, there were plenty of ways in which jabber "admitted guilt", and the fact that he said a stone fell on him is the least of those. It's like he's not really thinking about the game. Problem with this is that it could just be general laziness, rather than him being scum.


I'm confused by the bolded. I don't think it makes any sense. I don't think him reacting to my shit on Ninja has anything to do with jabber, but I could be wrong.

Please elaborate. This looks off.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 28 2014 23:38 GMT
#565
We're not last minuting off this wagon. If it's a mislynch we can deal with it. Stop proposing these alternative wagons.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 28 2014 23:51 GMT
#570
my mistake fuba, I forgot about that post.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 29 2014 00:07 GMT
#572
On May 29 2014 09:00 Amiko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2014 08:38 Palmar wrote:
We're not last minuting off this wagon. If it's a mislynch we can deal with it. Stop proposing these alternative wagons.


Why?

If we all have the same primary scum wagon, I think it's good to see how people think on secondary scumwagons.

I'll grant the information isn't too reliable (since the secondary wagons don't have much chance of being lynched) but I think it's good to see people making cases on other players.


I'm going to sleep and I'm afraid people do stupid stuff. I've seen some shit man, you wouldn't even believe.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 29 2014 08:36 GMT
#604
On May 29 2014 09:32 HaruRH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2014 09:25 fuba wrote:
On May 29 2014 09:13 HaruRH wrote:
On May 28 2014 22:37 Palmar wrote:
I don't think we know which setup was used.


In fact, palmar seemed to have been baited. It is obvious to VT that we dont know the setup - but palmar is second guessing his own decision of not knowing the setup. A townie will not state 'I don't think', but use stronger words that indicate full understanding of the rules.

Therefore, palmar is either scum or ignorant and I would go with scum. I will keep an eye out for more of his posts.

Eh, he also didn't know that there wasn't a vigi in this game (I think that was him). I think he just plays mafia and checks the setup if it's really important for him to do so. Actually, mafia would know that they were given the setup, so I think scum palmar would be more likely to actually know that town doesn't know. If that makes sense, haha.


That doesn't to me. In fact, I actually read the whole rules and roles because it may actually be important in the future. He was pushing a strategy with vigi, but failed to realise vigi dont exist. Everyone knows mafia was given the setup. Dont use ignorance as an argument, it is weak. What it simply tells me is that the 2 things on his mind were 'vigi' and 'role setup'.

You're just gonna have to take my word for it, but I never really read or pay attention to setups. Usually someone fills me in or I check whatever I need to know. It's sort of my thing. "Palmar doesn't read the OP"
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 29 2014 19:55 GMT
#629
On May 28 2014 16:49 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2014 16:43 Palmar wrote:
On May 28 2014 13:55 slOosh wrote:
On May 28 2014 08:51 Palmar wrote:
If someone isn't following why that last MZ post raises alarms (aside from the fact he's calling everyone mafia), I'll explain.

On May 28 2014 08:42 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 28 2014 08:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
You know what else I don't like?
Amiko's not as active as he usually is.
Yes, he's making big posts and big cases.
Yes, he has been the most substantial player so far, in terms of post content.
But he's not as active.
Other games, he's always around, asking people questions and the like.
This game, not so much.

You've thrown around a lot of suspicions this game. Instead of making a vague statement like this, interpret what it means. If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand. Instead tell us why this is a problem, maybe provide some examples if you're gonna cite his meta.


The bolded quote is very much not trying to figure out i's alignment. If MZ thinks there is any chance i is mafia, why is he trying to stop i from digging his own grave under the threat of "if you keep doing this I'll be suspicious of you!!!!". This looks like MZ wants to read i as town, while still looking like he's poking people.


Palmar could you please explain your MZ read more?


Which part of it do you not get?

"If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand."

This is basically saying

"If you don't elaborate, you're acting like mafia".

When in reality if MZ is town, he shouldn't care whether or not i acts like mafia, but if he is mafia. If MZ is town and thinks i is town his logical explanation should be

"If you don't elaborate, you won't convince anyone".

Because if MZ thinks i is town, he wouldn't care about i doing something potentially scummy for the sake of it being scummy, and rather because it is not helpful. However if MZ thinks i is mafia, why is he explaining the steps i can take to remove any suspicion MZ might have to him. It's like me saying "hey, you just made a case that is wrong, that is very mafia like. please make another case that is right so I don't have to call you mafia." It's just an absurd way of playing the game.

The only reasonable conclusion is that MZ must think i is town, and thus it makes no sense for MZ to point out something i does looks like something mafia does.

The reason I created in my head is that MZ knows i is town, and doesn't feel the need to call him mafia right now, but does leave the open-ended suspicion for use later.

Palmar that's honestly one of the worst posts I've ever seen you make and does nothing to change my opinion on your alignment. It seems as though you called me out, misjudged the thread's perception of me, and are now trying to back out of the read.


If I die tonight.

MZ is like 95% mafia. His response to me here has nothing to do with what I was saying in the post. Like it's beyond obvious he's not reading the argument at all and all he wants to do is discredit me.

What I was doing: Explaining why I thought MZ was mafia
What MZ claims I was doing: Trying to back out of the read.

The two are mutually exclusive damnit. I was explaining my read to someone who wasn't following it in hopes of convincing them, which is literally the opposite of trying to back out of a read.

Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 29 2014 20:07 GMT
#630
Other things.

i looks slightly less good, but I still think he's town.
Ninja too, I feel like her activity is dropping, or I'm not noticing much useful come out of her.
Chrom looked really good yesterday.
Amiko looks pretty town for now. He thinks I'm town for the right reasons. (This is important, mafia members know I'm town, he seems to have figured out that I'm town by actually reading the thread and analyzing it). If you ever clear this guy, follow him. He seems to be really good, but I hope he's really good town, not really good mafia
mderg has that one post that screams town (I hope he's mafia so I can be like super impressed ). I'm going with town for him
fuba looks better than I initially thought, he's sort of null-ish to me now, but I'd not lynch him tomorrow. I liked how he responded to me erroneously calling him out, so I'm backing slightly off on scumread. But he's still in the bottom half of the table.
sloosh is just meh. I have no idea tbh.
Slam is also meh. Both of them (sloosh and slam) are good cop checks. This is the first game I've actually thought to myself "slam looks sorta townie here", so that's making me nervous, as I fully admit I can't read the guy.
MZ is mafia
gobbley I don't know. I thought he was town at first, but he had really low content last time I checked his filter. So idk.

Lynch MZ tomorrow, pressure sloosh, fuba, gobbley. Slam or any of the previously mentioned are pretty good checks.

Also because most of you haven't played with me before. I usually super miss one mafia. So don't follow my reads blindly even if they give you 1-2 mafia.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 29 2014 23:16 GMT
#645
On May 30 2014 08:07 HaruRH wrote:
Palmar - you still did not address my point of why did you initially strongly agree with the bandwagon, but fall off later? Stronger cases were put out against him at that point.

Uh cause first I thought he was mafia, then I wasn't as sure he was mafia.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
May 29 2014 23:17 GMT
#646
If I was mafia and wanted credit for not lynching him I wouldn't have been whipping people to stay with the lynch buddy. I have no idea where you're going with this.
Computer says mafia
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