TL 'Order' LXVI Mafia - Page 263

On June 21 2014 23:30 sinani206 wrote:
##Vote: ketomai

I'll be back later.

On June 22 2014 00:30 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Can i please point out in golden sun I was town!

The only game I have been mafia in was Cell 2!

Get your games straight people!

I have rolled town 6 times! Six!!! That in includes this game.

I have no idea where he is getting the idea i was mafia that game.

On June 21 2014 19:24 Chairman Ray wrote:
Okay, I read through ritoky and 27nb's filter from Golden Sun.

[b]Ritoky is not mafia. 27nb is. [\b]


If you want to read through the filter yourself, go ahead, if not, I'll give you the relevant key points.

In Golden Sun, Ritoky faked a claim against 27nb. He did it when 27nb wasn't around, and opened it off by discussing his claim with other people. In this game, Ritoky redclaimed against 27nb when 27nb wasn't on yet, and opened it off by discussing with Chrom.

In Golden Sun, Ritoky did not really put much consideration into the option that he might get counterclaimed. In this game, Ritoky got screwed over when Chrom turned out to be miller.

In Golden Sun, 27nb was not one of Ritoky's scumreads, but then he chose 27nb out of everyone to do the fakeclaim on. He didn't do the fakeclaim on someone he had as scum. In this game, 27nb was not one of Ritoky's scumreads, but then he just decided to fakeclaim on 27nb out of everyone.

Ritoky basically just did the exact same sequence for the claim. This is exactly what he does as town on the exact same person, for the third time. He approached it the exact same way, and the only difference really is that he got counterclaimed this time.

Does this mean that Ritoky is town? Not 100%, but it's likely, due to him performing his town strategy. He could also be faking it, but if that were the case, he would have probably said at some point that he's done this kind of thing before. He didn't say anything about doing this twice in previous games until I asked him specifically.

Now let's look at 27nb.

I would like to start off with this quote from Golden Sun, and a quote from this game





I would also like to reiterate that ritoky has fakeclaimed against 27nb in previous games as town twice.

From reading 27nb's filter, it reads as if this is the first time 27nb has ever been fakeclaimed against. 27nb is fully aware that ritoky does this kind of thing as town and is used to it by now, so why is she responding this way?

If 27nb thinks ritoky is town, she will allude to previous games and mention that ritoky fakeclaims as town and is terrible at it. If 27nb thinks ritoky is mafia, she might look for subtle differences between this game and what she's used to.

But instead, we get responses like this:


27nb is going strongly on Ritoky, but her reasonings are not that great. A lot of other people who voted Ritoky pointed to things that separate a town fakeclaiming to a mafia fakeclaiming. Tica's case is a good example. Even after everything, she concludes that Ritoky is just a question mark. Why does 27nb want to lynch Ritoky for being a question mark read, and even if cop checks him clean? That doesn't make any sense. I think I understand what OWS was talking about when he mentioned white-knighting. This seems to me like town is starting to think Ritoky might not be mafia, so the response from 27nb is to keep the lynch on Ritoky, regardless of his role or cop check. This is a really mafia thing to do, especially this close to mylo.

I'm gonna have to consider this a bit more in the morning, but I can't imagine 27nb's response to ritoky's fakeclaim being like this if she's well aware that ritoky does this kind of thing. She's being quite defensive and is pushing really hard for this lynch despite not having any reads on Ritoky's alignment. What really changed between this game and the previous ones? It makes sense if 27nb is mafia this time around.

On June 21 2014 19:24 Chairman Ray wrote:
Okay, I read through ritoky and 27nb's filter from Golden Sun.

[b]Ritoky is not mafia. 27nb is. [\b]


If you want to read through the filter yourself, go ahead, if not, I'll give you the relevant key points.

In Golden Sun, Ritoky faked a claim against 27nb. He did it when 27nb wasn't around, and opened it off by discussing his claim with other people. In this game, Ritoky redclaimed against 27nb when 27nb wasn't on yet, and opened it off by discussing with Chrom.

In Golden Sun, Ritoky did not really put much consideration into the option that he might get counterclaimed. In this game, Ritoky got screwed over when Chrom turned out to be miller.

In Golden Sun, 27nb was not one of Ritoky's scumreads, but then he chose 27nb out of everyone to do the fakeclaim on. He didn't do the fakeclaim on someone he had as scum. In this game, 27nb was not one of Ritoky's scumreads, but then he just decided to fakeclaim on 27nb out of everyone.

Ritoky basically just did the exact same sequence for the claim. This is exactly what he does as town on the exact same person, for the third time. He approached it the exact same way, and the only difference really is that he got counterclaimed this time.

Does this mean that Ritoky is town? Not 100%, but it's likely, due to him performing his town strategy. He could also be faking it, but if that were the case, he would have probably said at some point that he's done this kind of thing before. He didn't say anything about doing this twice in previous games until I asked him specifically.

Now let's look at 27nb.

I would like to start off with this quote from Golden Sun, and a quote from this game





I would also like to reiterate that ritoky has fakeclaimed against 27nb in previous games as town twice.

From reading 27nb's filter, it reads as if this is the first time 27nb has ever been fakeclaimed against. 27nb is fully aware that ritoky does this kind of thing as town and is used to it by now, so why is she responding this way?

If 27nb thinks ritoky is town, she will allude to previous games and mention that ritoky fakeclaims as town and is terrible at it. If 27nb thinks ritoky is mafia, she might look for subtle differences between this game and what she's used to.

But instead, we get responses like this:


27nb is going strongly on Ritoky, but her reasonings are not that great. A lot of other people who voted Ritoky pointed to things that separate a town fakeclaiming to a mafia fakeclaiming. Tica's case is a good example. Even after everything, she concludes that Ritoky is just a question mark. Why does 27nb want to lynch Ritoky for being a question mark read, and even if cop checks him clean? That doesn't make any sense. I think I understand what OWS was talking about when he mentioned white-knighting. This seems to me like town is starting to think Ritoky might not be mafia, so the response from 27nb is to keep the lynch on Ritoky, regardless of his role or cop check. This is a really mafia thing to do, especially this close to mylo.

I'm gonna have to consider this a bit more in the morning, but I can't imagine 27nb's response to ritoky's fakeclaim being like this if she's well aware that ritoky does this kind of thing. She's being quite defensive and is pushing really hard for this lynch despite not having any reads on Ritoky's alignment. What really changed between this game and the previous ones? It makes sense if 27nb is mafia this time around.

On June 22 2014 01:35 Holyflare wrote:
I still don't see him say you were mafia in golden sun????????? He says you reacted one way in golden sun as town but in this game you act really defensive like you've never seen him do it before

On June 21 2014 19:24 Chairman Ray wrote:
Okay, I read through ritoky and 27nb's filter from Golden Sun.

Ritoky is not mafia. 27nb is.


If you want to read through the filter yourself, go ahead, if not, I'll give you the relevant key points.

In Golden Sun, Ritoky faked a claim against 27nb. He did it when 27nb wasn't around, and opened it off by discussing his claim with other people. In this game, Ritoky redclaimed against 27nb when 27nb wasn't on yet, and opened it off by discussing with Chrom.

In Golden Sun, Ritoky did not really put much consideration into the option that he might get counterclaimed. In this game, Ritoky got screwed over when Chrom turned out to be miller.

In Golden Sun, 27nb was not one of Ritoky's scumreads, but then he chose 27nb out of everyone to do the fakeclaim on. He didn't do the fakeclaim on someone he had as scum. In this game, 27nb was not one of Ritoky's scumreads, but then he just decided to fakeclaim on 27nb out of everyone.

Ritoky basically just did the exact same sequence for the claim. This is exactly what he does as town on the exact same person, for the third time. He approached it the exact same way, and the only difference really is that he got counterclaimed this time.

Does this mean that Ritoky is town? Not 100%, but it's likely, due to him performing his town strategy. He could also be faking it, but if that were the case, he would have probably said at some point that he's done this kind of thing before. He didn't say anything about doing this twice in previous games until I asked him specifically.

On June 22 2014 01:38 27ninjabunnies wrote:


Unless im reading what he said wrong, but okay.

I didnt even act defensive!

I laughed. Like what?

On June 21 2014 11:04 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Okay, so i was being town read, and now im on the top of everyone's scum list.

And i see NO reasons as to why I am scum. Like no cases whatsoever.

Its obv mafia are trying to push a ml on me, which leads me inclined to believe i have a few mafia within my lynch list.