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Here is why gumshoe is mafia and we should be lynching him:
Point #1: gumshoe's bait and why it does not make sense from town perspective and proves he is scum:
Here is the full conversation regarding this:
On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think?
On April 02 2014 06:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not. I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not? ~rayn
On April 02 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:17 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not. I dunno, why should i think something? getmoript is mafia agreed or not? ~rayn I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / :
Now here other stuff happens and both of me and gumshoe discuss other things.
Later on i revisit the argument and it bothers me because it looks weird.
I ask gumshoe this:
On April 02 2014 08:40 raynpelikonoshi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:10 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 05:46 Steveling wrote:
Was watching champions league.
Sleep time, will catch up on everything tomorrow. Steveling plays alot of video games, he lives in greece(athens, its 11:57 over there at the time of this post) and has been known to post/stay up/game late. He also likes quality literature and is invested in public conflict (like the syrian civil war). Which gives me the sense he is excited to play mafia overall and I find he can be quite active at the start of games (have not played with him in some time but thats my old impression). Seems interesting that he feels the need to recalibrate instead when this is really the best time to jump on the game, I mean theres only like 6 pages so far, perhaps he wants to tread lightly? Rayn watcha think? I am trying so hard to think about this post and what the fuck is the point of all this. gumshoe what's the point of all this? Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote:
I'm just curios if you had thoughts on steve, or any history with him I should know of / :
I don't believe this. I don't believe this for one second. ~rayn
On April 02 2014 08:52 gumshoe wrote:I was offering an olive branch to see your reaction. No I wasn't honestly going after Steve with so little, but you know I'm capable of weird arguments like that so If your scum you have to consider 2 things, if I'm genuine and if your better off tentatively agreeing with me or turning on me for that silly read.
Now read the red part and the green part. Both are gumshoe's answers. Both cannot possibly be true. Agreed? Yes, good. Now this leads us to the following:
gumshoe says he laid a trap on me and i did not take the bait. Okay, maybe this is true. However why this is scummy is because the trap and the conclusion from it happened before gumshoe makes his green explanation. If it was truly a trap gumshoe has his conclusion already. In this case he would post the red part instead of lying and posting the green part in the first place. There is absolutely no reason to lie about the motivation behind your argument when asked, especially when you have already gotten your conclusion!!
There is no town motivation for gumshoe to do what he did. This also leads me to:
Point #2: gumshoe's contradicting stance regarding readability and what it means:
I made a post about this already. It's here:
On April 02 2014 10:21 raynpelikonoshi wrote:So i went to see if Holyflare is hard to read for gumshoe. Turns out he had a pretty clear read on him in World Heavyweight mafia game (where he was town) half past D1. I also found this: Show nested quote +On March 28 2014 01:53 gumshoe wrote:On March 28 2014 01:30 Holyflare wrote:
because it is so wrong, not reading your pm enables you to be towny because you have no hesitation about finding your partner at that point because you don't know who he is so your entire reason for voting palmar is incredibly weird.....
not to mention he actually claimed scum, why haven't you commented on that instead? Cause I'm not there yet : P and I disagree, bieng readable is a big part of bieng town, if you make your self unreadable you can't be trusted. I'm not going to argue with you about this because it's retarded to think otherwise. However as me and gumshoe talk about being readable in this game his stance is this: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 09:14 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 09:03 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 08:56 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 08:54 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Why didn't you say so in the first place when i gave my answer and asked the same question?
~rayn Because there's a 50 percent chance your scum therefore I owe you no favours, and I didn't catch anything worth bringing up at that moment. So instead of answering me you decided to lie because "you don't owe me anything"? Do you realize i am supposed to have a read on you in this game and it's not looking quite townie atm. ~rayn "Mafia is about finding scum, period" your words not mine, why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? You opinion is literally a coin flip away from worthless to me. If you can't read me, that's not my fault, I am playing the game as I see fit, your bieng shit at reads doesn't factor in to my play. Here i present you our first...... Confirmed scumscumscumscumscum!!!! ezpz ~rayn
Look at the post.
- In the green part gumshoe, as town in the last game we played, claims his stance. He says "being readable is a big part of good town play. It's retarded to think otherwise."
- In the red part gumshoe claims his stance in this game. You need to remember this has to do with the point #1 i presented. I have an argument that gumshoe is mafia because he is lying. I want to know why gumshoe is lying and if he has an explanation regarding why it makes sense to lie here as town. His stance is "why should I care about your read on me until I know what you are? If you can't read me, that's not my fault."
Why this is scummy? Because town!gumshoe PROVABLY thinks the exact opposite he claims in this game. He only says what he does in this game because he lied and can't explain it in any other way. His explanation does not match with what town!gumshoe thinks. Noone can possibly have a contradicting stance on what is the optimal play for a townie regarding being readable or not when they are town, it's impossible, regardless of the game or situation!
Point #3: gumshoe is dodging arguments and working against his own heuristics + :
I'll just make a list of these:
- gumshoe refuses to answer my case on him and fearmongers something about "you can't read me scum because Steveling bla bla". That's didging an argument, Steveling not posting has nothing to do with if gumshoe is scum or not
- As Balla already pointed out then gumshoe calls me mafia for this. In case gumshoe's logic as town was "you can't call me scum because the other dude has not posted" he can't based on his own logic call me mafia for that. The point is not if this is true or not, the point is if gumshoe thinks this is a good heuristic he can't possibly forget it when it comes to me. He is selectively choosing to apply his heuristics when they benefit him and forget's them when they don't.
- gumshoe refuses to comment on my arguments on his case on me. Instead of telling people why i am wrong (i must be if i am scum and he has a good case on me right?) he only makes the same case again and hammers the same answered points over and over again. See my pretty picture. That's not how townies work.
Thank you for reading.
~rayn
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I would like to ask that everybody that is convinced that gumshoe is scum in our group votes raynpelikonoshi as mayor. I am also quite good with blue roles and I am pretty sure I can make a smart lynchline. Currently I would actually put our group first because gumshoe looks like a solid lynch. Balla will go second. After that Holyflare/Palmar need to close this out. I currently think those 3 are town. Palmar is not certain because his cellmates are afk. If they start playing the game Palmar could go second.
##unvote
##vote: raynpelikonoshi
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On April 02 2014 23:13 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 23:12 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
I would like to ask that everybody that is convinced that gumshoe is scum in our group votes raynpelikonoshi as mayor. I am also quite good with blue roles and I am pretty sure I can make a smart lynchline. Currently I would actually put our group first because gumshoe looks like a solid lynch. Balla will go second. After that Holyflare/Palmar need to close this out. I currently think those 3 are town. Palmar is not certain because his cellmates are afk. If they start playing the game Palmar could go second.
##unvote
##vote: raynpelikonoshi So your voting to take yourself out of the game first? If Rayn is so town, why remove him from the game at the start just so you can rush a mislynch?
Do you mean steve?
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On April 02 2014 23:10 gumshoe wrote:Point 1: Why do you assume the trap was over? I wanted to see if youd say anything else 0_0 because your initial answer was this Show nested quote +I read bla bla bla can't tell if true or false because impossilble to know if he went to sleep or not.
I dunno, why should i think something?
getmoript is mafia agreed or not?
I wasnt satisfied with that answer, it was totally inconclusive and a complete dodge. You then game me this Show nested quote +Well i don't have any thoughts on him because he has made one non-alignment indicative post.
Comments on my case on getmoript? Which was fine, didnt reveal anything important so I moved on and saw no point to causing a shit storm in thread over nothing. Of course you didnt even bother considering any of this cause scum. Point 2: What readibility? I dont feel the need to be transparent with people who are 50 percent scum, in what world is this scummy? This has nothing to do with proving my townieness, which I do through effort and finds. Point 3: I am presenting arguments that fit YOUR scum meta first off, not mine (my scum meta is inherently lazy and unmotivated the exact opposite as I've played this game. Over all your, arguments are "gumshoe lied so hes scum" and "gumshoe contradicted himself as scum" both of which are things I do as town, and you town read me for when your town. You are calling a lynch on me for playing shitty, not cause I', scim : P I on the other hand, am saying "rayn reassures his own reads when hes scum cause hes scared of looking weak" "Rayn meta fits his scum games" "Rayn is certain of my alignment when he has no right to be" all of these things are true brahs / : I can do this aaaall day Rayn ( : glhf.
#1: It doesn't matter if the trap was over or not. You didn't tell the truth even after that until i said you were fishy. The point is you lied, there is no town motivation to lie in that situation.
#2: Are you fucking braindead? As town you claim "being readable is big part of being town". In this game you claim "I don't give a fuck if i am readable or not". You are not only readable to me, you are readable to 13 other people. You answering to me does not only help me read you, it also helps 13 other people to read you. You are not this stupid.
#3: No. You literally claim i can't read you scum because of X but you read me scum despite X which is still there. That has nothing to do with anyone's meta. Nothing i have said has anything to do with meta. You are the one who brings up retarded meta arguments "he did this in that game so he is also scum here herp derp". You have NEVER in this game commented on my case nor have you backed up your case or argued with me about it before this post. I have answered your case and you fucking don't even read the answer but just mindlessly hammer the same things over and over again.
Anyways this conversation is over. I am not going to convince you you are mafia because obviously you will not agree. I am going to convince others so there is no point in you talking to me, talk to other people. Questiontime is over for you, now it's time for me to tell why you are scum and convince the town to lynch you. You got your chance to answer my questions, you blew it.
~rayn
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On April 02 2014 23:21 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 23:19 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 23:13 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 23:12 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
I would like to ask that everybody that is convinced that gumshoe is scum in our group votes raynpelikonoshi as mayor. I am also quite good with blue roles and I am pretty sure I can make a smart lynchline. Currently I would actually put our group first because gumshoe looks like a solid lynch. Balla will go second. After that Holyflare/Palmar need to close this out. I currently think those 3 are town. Palmar is not certain because his cellmates are afk. If they start playing the game Palmar could go second.
##unvote
##vote: raynpelikonoshi So your voting to take yourself out of the game first? If Rayn is so town, why remove him from the game at the start just so you can rush a mislynch? Do you mean steve? Nope I mean me XD Please answer the question you shifty bastard.
hehehe? dafuq? I am rayn?
I don't want to remove myself from the game. I want to secure a first lynch on scum. Currently I think HF is town because either tehpoofter/mdreg is scum (I got tehpoofter, rayn got mdreg). I think that Balla is quite obvious town. Both players are quite capable to do without us and I think thread needs more time to decide in their group than in ours. Palmar looks town but there was 1 point I was a bit iffy about, and we can't say shit about his teammates, so I am a bit hesitant about him but currently I want to call him town. So it's not that this thread needs us to win.
I don't understand what you are saying though. You think I am scum, thread thinks we are town. As scum it would be smart to use our influence and stay alive. I am sure Koshi/rayn can push more mislynches when alive then just go for this 1 misslynch on you 
Pretty sure.
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On April 02 2014 23:32 Palmar wrote:
How am I not obvtown for being the only person who actually read HF's meta point Koshi?
Because you aren't. Or are you going to prove to me you read the thread halfassed as scum? Also after Championship game you will be very tryhard as scum.
Anyway. Like I said. I want to call you town. Not confiming you because your cellmates are not playing. But let's not kid ourselves, you wont get lynched over them ever probably.
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Koshi go read our QT.
~rayn
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On April 02 2014 23:46 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 23:45 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 23:41 Palmar wrote:On April 02 2014 23:37 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 23:36 Palmar wrote:On April 02 2014 23:35 gumshoe wrote:On April 02 2014 23:32 Palmar wrote:
How am I not obvtown for being the only person who actually read HF's meta point Koshi? 0_0 can you explain to me why this makes you town? Because it means I'm actually reading the thread, and that I care about the cases being made? Why are scum not capable of that? Especially if said scum is one of the best players on tl. Go read my last two games and see how well your theory holds up hurr durr I think you played fine that game 0_0 and totally read and responded to each of my questions. You were just caught out fast cause Marv is awesome, otherwise you were never getting lynched that day. Were you in a totally different game?
hahaha this
~rayn
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On April 02 2014 23:45 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Koshi go read our QT.
~rayn
meh, I stick to my read on Palmar but yeah I agree that he is likely town.
+ Show Spoiler +
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gumshoe i thought you said Holyflare and Palmar are the hardest people for you to read in this game besides unreadable Slam/Coag and now they are sure scum?
~rayn
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... based on reasoning "they think i am scum and they are active".
I have a hard time seeing you would say that as town, or think it's legit to even think they are mafia because of it in case your statement "they are the hardest people to read" (=hard to catch as mafia) is legit.
~rayn
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On April 03 2014 00:04 Palmar wrote:
Like the more gumshoe posts the less certain I am he's mafia and not just insane.
No no, town!gumshoe follows his own logic. I don't care if people use bad logic, that's something that's not necessarily scummy. Not following his own logic and making logical inconsistancies is scummy. That is what mafia!gumshoe does, especially when he is taken away from his comfort zone.
Remember mini PYP? gumshoe made an argument on me. When people pointed out what was wrong in his argument he didn't explain his logic, instead he made a new argument. That's what he is doing here. He is just making new arguments hoping the old ones are forgotten.
~rayn
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On April 03 2014 00:09 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 00:04 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
... based on reasoning "they think i am scum and they are active".
I have a hard time seeing you would say that as town, or think it's legit to even think they are mafia because of it in case your statement "they are the hardest people to read" (=hard to catch as mafia) is legit.
~rayn 0_0 thought you werent talking to me? Virtually all my losses are to great scum players and I can point out examples from my very first game of me saying we should assume the best of them. I KNOW FOR A FACT YOU, THE MOST ACTIVE PLAYER IN THIS THREAD ARE SCUM. Why would I have a hard time believing any of this as town? Why are you fighting this idea so hard Rayn?
So yo uare asking me why i do not believe i am scum.
stop already. rofl.
~rayn
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On April 03 2014 00:09 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 00:08 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 03 2014 00:04 Palmar wrote:
Like the more gumshoe posts the less certain I am he's mafia and not just insane. No no, town!gumshoe follows his own logic. I don't care if people use bad logic, that's something that's not necessarily scummy. Not following his own logic and making logical inconsistancies is scummy. That is what mafia!gumshoe does, especially when he is taken away from his comfort zone. Remember mini PYP? gumshoe made an argument on me. When people pointed out what was wrong in his argument he didn't explain his logic, instead he made a new argument. That's what he is doing here. He is just making new arguments hoping the old ones are forgotten. ~rayn You may not have noticed but I didn't really read PYP
gumshoe: "i don't want rayn to pick 2,1 because he is scum and i don't want him to have universal backup, otherwise i am okay with his plan"
people: "why?"
gumshoe: "i don't rayn him to pick KP"
people: "but he is not picking KP"
gumshoe: "he has a plan for picking KP"
people: "but he can't have a plan because it will be confirmed where the KP is, you agreed with the rest of his plan"
gumshoe: "but he still has a plan. NOW MORE TALK ABOUT THIS KTHXBYE!"
That's literally what happened.
~rayn
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On April 03 2014 00:13 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 00:10 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 03 2014 00:09 gumshoe wrote:On April 03 2014 00:04 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
... based on reasoning "they think i am scum and they are active".
I have a hard time seeing you would say that as town, or think it's legit to even think they are mafia because of it in case your statement "they are the hardest people to read" (=hard to catch as mafia) is legit.
~rayn 0_0 thought you werent talking to me? Virtually all my losses are to great scum players and I can point out examples from my very first game of me saying we should assume the best of them. I KNOW FOR A FACT YOU, THE MOST ACTIVE PLAYER IN THIS THREAD ARE SCUM. Why would I have a hard time believing any of this as town? Why are you fighting this idea so hard Rayn? So yo uare asking me why i do not believe i am scum. stop already. rofl. ~rayn No, I am saying my stance is perfectly reasonable if I'm town 0_0 which I am.
No you are saying you did something scummy and i am scum because i called you out for your scummy shit and on top of that you can't even reasonable explain it. But that doesn't make you look scummy at all, no, it makes me look scummy in your opinion.
hilarious
~rayn
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Palmar is quite obviously town. I am good at reading him. As scum he does not read the thread, he just doesn't give a fuck about properly reading the thread. He sticks to his policies (lynch lurkers, lynch liars, etc etc..) and makes weak cases. He does not think about motivation behind what people say.
In this game it's the opposite. at the start he did what he always does in PYP (said "be back in 48h this phase dumb"). When i explained him why he should not afk he realized i was right. If he was mafia he would have stuck to his PYP policy 99%. He is also trying to actually figure out shit and not only look like it ( see for example Holyflare - mderg meta thingy, in contrary see Thug life where i insta-caught him for his shit read on yamato and Titanic where he just tunneled VE and made some half-arsed comments on other people). In both scumcases he clearly didn't care about the game. WHWC game was even more hilarious. He just asked some random questions from gumshoe and ended up in non-conclusion, then he didn't do anything at all.
Palmar can be lazy as town aswell but it's different. He still shows he thinks about the game when he posts.
It's totes different than in this game than when he is scum. Palmar is town!
~rayn
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On April 03 2014 00:28 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 00:21 Palmar wrote:On April 03 2014 00:13 gumshoe wrote:On April 03 2014 00:09 Palmar wrote:On April 03 2014 00:07 gumshoe wrote:On April 03 2014 00:04 Palmar wrote:
Like the more gumshoe posts the less certain I am he's mafia and not just insane. Even if I'm insane that still makes Rayn scum XD Why though? Ok here's something. Your trap ends now. Right now. Policy lynch if it doesnt. Now explain in detail what you intended and what you achieved with the trap. Ok, its been over sometime. This is everything about it right here. I assume that if Rayn is scum, he is looking to get an easy kill on one of his cell mates (as opposed to legit working out which one is scum), so I make up some stuff on Steve and see if he jumps on it, Rayn didnt take the bait, instead he turned it back on me for lying to catch him, ironically this ends up proving my point because it shows that Rayn was looking to jump on one of his cellies XD it just so happened to be me. Thats literally the whole of it ) : I'm sorry I caused so much confusion. The bolded is the important part. If you admit to have lied, and rayn spotted that. Why isn't rayn your strongest townread now? Isn't that exactly what townies do? Like if I catch Sentinel saying something that can be verified as a contradiction, I'm lynching the fuck out of him even if Coag never comes back to the thread. screw it, you have to be scum. Rayn is extremely sharp as scum, please hear me out this point its extremely important, in gsl mafia, I accidentally scum slipped by revealing that I knew how many blue roles town had, He jumped on me instantaneuosly and I was his scum buddy in this game, Scum Rayn feels he has to jump on inconsistencies because he is logic bound even as red. I was looking for that instinct, expecting it to be even greater considering the setup. And Rayn certainly didnt dissapoint / :
THIS POST IS TOTALLY FALSE!!! 100% FALSE AND A STRAIGHT OUT LIE!
Here is what happened (compare especially the bolded parts).
I thought gumshoe scumslipped and i thought other people will see that too. I called him out instantly in thread so that i will look better when he flips (i assumed he will flip 100%). gumshoe didn't in fact scumslip, i had misread his post. We talked about the situation in Teamspeak and decided that we argue about it for a while because it will end up both of us looking better, or at least not worse. We did so.
Second bolded part: So jumping on inconsistancies IS BY YOUR OWN WORDS A NULL-TELL on me! Yet you call me scum for it in this game.
hahahahahah!!
lynch the fuck outta this scum!
~rayn
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On April 03 2014 00:38 gumshoe wrote:
And thats what youve done this game, not once considering that I'm a town / : leaping on everything I say you hyena.
BECAUSE YOU DO MAFIA THINGS! DO YOU UNDERSTAND MAFIA PEOPLE DO MAFIA THINGS!
YOU CAN'T CALL ME MAFIA FOR CALLING OUT YOUR MAFIA THINGS BECAUSE YOU DO THEM!
If you do them as town you are bad. But it's more likely you do them as mafia because mafia does mafia things and town does townie things!!!!
You literally agree you do scummy stuff, then you call me mafia because i tell people you do scummy stuff. That's the most retarded logic i have ever heard, it's mafia logic. Because you have no real arguments.
~rayn
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Like i am not going to talk anything about gumshoe in this game any more. He is confirmed mafia because this is so retarded he can't be town.
I hope you people see that and are not dumb.
~rayn
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EPT
