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On April 03 2014 00:42 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Like i am not going to talk anything about gumshoe in this game any more. He is confirmed mafia because this is so retarded he can't be town.
I hope you people see that and are not dumb.
~rayn
Isn't this the exact same line of reasoning you used on me and now youre null? on me?
~g
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On April 03 2014 02:23 raynpelikonoshi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 02:21 getmoript wrote:On April 03 2014 00:42 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Like i am not going to talk anything about gumshoe in this game any more. He is confirmed mafia because this is so retarded he can't be town.
I hope you people see that and are not dumb.
~rayn Isn't this the exact same line of reasoning you used on me and now youre null? on me? ~g I don't think you are reading properly if you think i am null on you. ~rayn
This is lie. At points you've called me scum. At points you've said you're not sure. Koshi has definitely at least said he has doubts. I find it funny how you comment on how Cav/I are on different pages and yet you and Koshi at many points are on different pages. Like wtf is that?
~g
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[QUOTE]On April 03 2014 02:36 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
[QUOTE]On April 03 2014 02:33 getmoript wrote:
[QUOTE]On April 03 2014 02:23 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
When i say you are on a different page i mean the fact that Cavalinho has absolutely no idea why you (geript) think what you do and he has absolutely no reads of his own.
Could you paraphrase your hydra log immediately please?
~rayn[/QUOTE]
No. I think that's cheating.
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On April 03 2014 02:41 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 02:40 getmoript wrote:On April 03 2014 02:23 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
When i say you are on a different page i mean the fact that Cavalinho has absolutely no idea why you (geript) think what you do and he has absolutely no reads of his own.
Could you paraphrase your hydra log immediately please?
~rayn No. I think that's cheating. "think" did you pm host about it? or is it a personal rule that you don't want to break?
I don't mind pulling out relevant bits of the hydra log when it's relevant to a specific discussion. But flat out summarizing a whole log is something that I think is 100% cheating because it confirms my alignment as either direction.
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On April 03 2014 02:44 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
I jsut want to know what you have been talking about in chronological order.
~rayn
Look, that's flat out cheating regardless and I won't do it.
~g
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On April 03 2014 02:43 raynpelikonoshi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 02:40 getmoript wrote:On April 03 2014 02:36 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 03 2014 02:33 getmoript wrote:On April 03 2014 02:23 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
When i say you are on a different page i mean the fact that Cavalinho has absolutely no idea why you (geript) think what you do and he has absolutely no reads of his own.
Could you paraphrase your hydra log immediately please?
~rayn No. I think that's cheating. No it's not. You can't just copy/paste. ~rayn
No rayn, It's not that simple. This is a major reason why, imo, some people are 100% against hydras. Hydras can easily prove their alignment by something like this. I don't support it in any fashion in any game.
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On April 03 2014 02:50 Holyflare wrote:
rayn and koshi had already done some copy/pasting earlier in the game, geript has not raged on about it at all and has taken the stance now that he won't paste it despite it already being done in this game before
the only explanation is that his qt is full of scummy shit and he can't paraphrase it straight away without forging some bs play
No. There's a major difference. Rayn/Koshi had a post on the back/forth of them on me at some point. It's not like any of that couldn't be faked. But flat out paraphrasing a whole log IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER to show our thought process is 100% against the spirit of the game.
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We've talked about prplhz some. We've talked about mayor strategy some and how to get it. I've made some notes for him on my read through. I've commented Rayn being conf scum. I actually kinda feel back because I've posted more in the thread than in our log and explained more in here than I have there.
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Like here's what I really don't get about Rayn. He's really hammering the gumshoe thing really hard; he's beating that drum pretty ridiculously loudly but he's not even stopping to think about it at all. Like for me, I'm comparing this gumshoe to the gumshoe I saw in cultured. Me personally, I don't see that much of a difference.
Rayn at one point in cultured even noted how Gumshoe had some sick reads there. Like my biggest problem with Rayn is that his reads have been so drastically different from mine in general. The thing I really don't like about the gumshoe push is that Town Rayn generally takes a pause at some point to stop, look back and think about his direction and where he's going. Like he pauses to reevaluated his reads and what he should be pushing. I'm not seeing that here; it's just full steam ahead Rayn. That added to the fact that, in the least, he and Koshi haven't been on the same page and he's not really bothering to reconsider things more based off of what Koshi says ESPECIALLY AS RAYN CONSIDERS KOSHI A GOOD PLAYER seems especially out of character.
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On April 03 2014 03:05 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
geript would you lynch Cavalinho in this game if you were not hydraing with him and he had made the posts he has?
~rayn
He wouldn't be my top lynch but I could see him being in my to lynch pile.
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On April 03 2014 03:11 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Also you don't get to call my arguments bad without commenting on them geript.
That's pretty BS and you do it over and over again.
Why are my arguments bad?
~rayn
That cuts both ways. Like you've continued to ignore my point on prplhz opener. Balla had a decent post on the policy lynch part of it, but I've bothered to reiterate the main point over and over and you keep on ignoring it and calling it shit logic when it's definitely not.
~g
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Re: part 1
Gumshoe lying. I don't see a real point to Gumshoe baiting or "baiting" you. I don't really think anything can come of that, but I don't think your conclusion is logical either. If he's actually baiting you with Steve and you ignore it, he loses nothing by doubling down on the bait. This isn't in any way alignment indicative.
Re: part 2
I can see both sides of this. Like I don't think gumshoe thinks that it's pro-town to be unreadable, but I think you're taking the quote out of context. For me, the quote you post gives a hint of gumshoe being paranoid town. Like, of course he's going to try and read his own pod first. If he's town, why should he give any rat's ass what you read him as until he's confident that you're town. IE why should he care about what your read on him is until he's sure that he's not pocketed/getting thrown for mislynch. For me, this point leans town to me; not definitely so but definitely not scum and 100% not strong scum.
Re: part 3
Gum dodging re: the Steve thing is ok. I don't find this particularly alignment indicative either way personally but I can see you calling it scummy. I don't think this is a strong argument for either alignment; this setup makes it super easy to call one guy town and one guy scum and call it a day.
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On April 02 2014 15:36 getmoript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 05:12 getmoript wrote:On April 02 2014 03:47 prplhz wrote:
so maybe the mayor doesn't matter much Is a super odd stance for a towny to make. It's neither stating, "I don't fucking care who mayor is and I don't fucking care about the order" OR "I super care about who the mayor is and what the order is." I've seen and played in a number of odd games and I've taken a number of unique stances about things myself, but I don't think I've ever seen a stance that's so bland about it. Like that's a really, really weird way to approach this game and I'm not liking you right now for not picking up on this specifically. I want to reiterate this post. Maybe I'm not explaining it well. This is a really good point I've been trying to make and hasn't gotten through someone. Town tends to come down and stand up for what they believe; they know they're town and will evaluate their plans and think about them and reevaluate etc. But when a townie presents a plan, they're confident in it. They like the plan. They want town to follow it. So prplhz taking such an unconfident odd stance on the mayor mattering one way or another really bugs me.
Honestly, I'd rather you comment on this. I think I explain it the best here. The VE prplhz policy lynch scumread thing isn't something I'm 100% on reading prplhz as scum for; it's more an added bonus.
On April 02 2014 15:26 getmoript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 04:51 LSB wrote:On April 02 2014 04:47 prplhz wrote:On April 02 2014 04:38 Balla24 wrote:
I find it weird that people want to lynch "unreadables" first...
Unreadable means you can't properly discern their alignment, therefore lynching groups with "unreadable" people in it means we have less chance of hitting mafia, so why would we want them to go first. That's silly, we'll just be behind early if we don't get lucky.
For the record, I think my group is very READABLE, and I think it will be easy to catch the mafia in my group therefore we should go first but I think it's stupid that you guys want us to go first if we are "unreadable".
"unreadable" as in "having them around probably will not give you any information to work with". at the same time lynching into unreadables might give us a good idea about the people left in the town, rather than autolynching someone who claimed scum. if there's some ezpz town read in a group i think it would make sense to have them around for long, they can help town focus and will not cause a distraction. So if you are so focused on lynching unreadables, why are you on a giant crusade to lynch group four first? This just doesn't make sense. I can understand slam to a certain degree if he just plays nonsense, however me and balla are pretty active and readable. Why not something like group 2 or 3 if you are looking for people that are unreadible? I think this question got dropped. LSB picks it up again a little bit in the following: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 04:57 LSB wrote:On April 02 2014 04:52 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 04:47 prplhz wrote:
dunno, i like his activity so far and he seems interested in the game. we also agreed on cell 4 first though apparently for different reasons but i don't mind that because his reasons are alright too.
i'm okay with him for now. You just said he seems kinda scummy. ~rayn Prplhz is just a mess of contradictions right now. Likes the scummy balla. Wants some easily readible town group to stay in the game for a long time, agrees that group four is readible and pushes them to get put up to the block first All this is going on during the whole setup/order/etc. stuff. The specific reason I'm seconding this stuff is moreso because I really don't like how rayn has this post: Show nested quote +On April 02 2014 04:58 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 02 2014 04:56 getmoript wrote:On April 02 2014 03:47 prplhz wrote:
so maybe the mayor doesn't matter much
so how we rank these groups. i think we should have annoying unreadable players on d1 since more time with them isn't going to give us more information. there's a small consideration in that we kind of might get people's flip when their group is up so it might be a good idea to put a group with good players in d3 so later towns have something to go on for sure.
dunno though, all of these groups seems okay. if anything, i think cell4 is a good group for first lynch. Rayn you liked this post and I absolutely hate it. Why in the world do you like this post? This is an awful post and you should know why? You roll scum? I just figured it out. I was approaching the game stupidly and from the wrong perspective. ~rayn Like I 100% agree that we should lynch the groups with obv scum first. It's the fact that Rayn agrees with me that Prplhz's opening post is a bad post but he does it for different reasons from me. He specifically has the problem with it that prplhz doesn't want to find scum and insta lynch them. But his follow up isn't on prplhz for that at all. Town Rayn is perfectly fine pressuring two people at once and he can push both prplhz and myself at the same time EVEN WHILE WE'RE IN THE SAME POD!!! I don't like how he bounces only onto me for this line of reasoning and completely ignores prplhz. I'll talk more about this later I think but need to finish reading.
This too, because I thought this was really odd when I reread last night.
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On April 03 2014 03:31 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Like here is how it went:
prplhz: "i don't think mayor matters, but the group order does"
rayn: "damn i don't actually think we should talk about this yet"
rayn: "yeah i agree mayor does not matter, mayor needs to do what the town says unless they wanna claim scum"
prplhz: "yes, exactly"
geript: "LOL PRPLHZ SCUM BECAUSE WHO IS MAYOR AND WHET MAYOR DOES IS THE SAME THING! RAYN ALSO SCUM BECAUSE PRPLHZ SCUM!"
rayn:"w00t???"
~rayn
Now you're just straw manning my argument here. My early argument for you being scum is moreso based on how you prefer to play scum which is specifically to protect your scumbuddies and push mislynches. Go back and reread it from my perspective; pretend you're me and I'm town. What you see is:
prplhz: funky post
rayn: bs +1
geript: attacks funky post
rayn: +1 for completely different reasons, doesn't call/think/pressure prplhz
rayn: looks at geript policy preference post, pushes geript, ignores prplhz for making a pretty analogous stance.
Like it's really odd that you didn't push both of us for the same thing. You've done it before and you'll do it later on.
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On April 03 2014 03:39 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
geript you can't call prplhz mafia because Cephiro hasn't posted so you need to do something else.
~rayn
I don't appreciate being baited with something as dumb and obvious as you're doing.
~g
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On April 03 2014 03:43 prplhz wrote:
you can't call me mafia because i'm town and all of getript's arguments are stupid.
like all of getripts arguments so far have been addressed. i was just about to ask him if he thought he was using VE's meta rule on reading me correctly but then he just admitted out of the blue that he hadn't a goddamn clue and he just added it to maximize the bullshit.
getmoript have you played with me before?
Video a few times I think. Maybe a few other times; I don't particularly remember you other than being more lurky.
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On April 03 2014 03:44 raynpelikonoshi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 03:42 getmoript wrote:On April 03 2014 03:31 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Like here is how it went:
prplhz: "i don't think mayor matters, but the group order does"
rayn: "damn i don't actually think we should talk about this yet"
rayn: "yeah i agree mayor does not matter, mayor needs to do what the town says unless they wanna claim scum"
prplhz: "yes, exactly"
geript: "LOL PRPLHZ SCUM BECAUSE WHO IS MAYOR AND WHET MAYOR DOES IS THE SAME THING! RAYN ALSO SCUM BECAUSE PRPLHZ SCUM!"
rayn:"w00t???"
~rayn
Now you're just straw manning my argument here. My early argument for you being scum is moreso based on how you prefer to play scum which is specifically to protect your scumbuddies and push mislynches. Go back and reread it from my perspective; pretend you're me and I'm town. What you see is: prplhz: funky post rayn: bs +1 geript: attacks funky post rayn: +1 for completely different reasons, doesn't call/think/pressure prplhz rayn: looks at geript policy preference post, pushes geript, ignores prplhz for making a pretty analogous stance. Like it's really odd that you didn't push both of us for the same thing. You've done it before and you'll do it later on. No that's totally misrepresenting the situation. You are using fancy words to make something look like you want it to look like while it's not. Everyone can go and read the whole conversation in thread by themselves. Can you now answer my posts. Why do you refuse to answer them? ~rayn
Which ones do you want me to answer? Like you keep up completely ignoring the points I'm making and spewing whatever crap you want to. I'm absolutely voting for you when you come up for lynch.
~g
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On April 03 2014 03:46 raynpelikonoshi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 03:43 getmoript wrote:On April 03 2014 03:39 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
geript you can't call prplhz mafia because Cephiro hasn't posted so you need to do something else.
~rayn I don't appreciate being baited with something as dumb and obvious as you're doing. ~g There is actually another meaning behind this. How is it in your opinion perfectly fine gumshoe has this heuristic and it's perfectly fine he uses it to call me mafia but ignores it when it comes to you and himself? Why is it not scummy in your opinion? Like if you say i am mafia for X and someone else says i am mafia for X i can't possibly, as town, think you are scum for saying that but the other person isn't. Can i? ~rayn
I don't know gumshoe used it in your situation as compared to mine; personally, I think you're either scum or tunnelling him ridiculously as town. I don't think he applies it to me because, as town, that's not how he reads me. He recognizes as town that I'm perfectly capable of being illogical/stupid at points. So, as town, he discards weak reads in favor of strong reads.
Like you think that everyone is going to act 100% the same as town and that's flat out not the case. People have different heuristics they use for different people. For example if I'm all trolly and useless and post spam for all of day 1, then you and palmer are going to read me as scum; but if Slam does it, then he's likely town for it. I don't see why you can't get that. Hell, you thought I was scum for a while in Cultured IIRC on D1; most of the thread definitely did, and Gumshoe made a really weird defense of me there too. When I was rereading last night and got to gumshoe's defense of me here, I was really skeptical and had to go reread cultured to get perspective. I think he can make that townread on me as town; I think he can make it as scum too, but I definitely think he can make it as town. So when you've been pushing on both of us when you should know that he's capable of making good reads on me, that's really sketch bro.
~g
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On April 03 2014 03:49 raynpelikonoshi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 03:30 getmoript wrote:
Re: part 1
Gumshoe lying. I don't see a real point to Gumshoe baiting or "baiting" you. I don't really think anything can come of that, but I don't think your conclusion is logical either. If he's actually baiting you with Steve and you ignore it, he loses nothing by doubling down on the bait. This isn't in any way alignment indicative.
Re: part 2
I can see both sides of this. Like I don't think gumshoe thinks that it's pro-town to be unreadable, but I think you're taking the quote out of context. For me, the quote you post gives a hint of gumshoe being paranoid town. Like, of course he's going to try and read his own pod first. If he's town, why should he give any rat's ass what you read him as until he's confident that you're town. IE why should he care about what your read on him is until he's sure that he's not pocketed/getting thrown for mislynch. For me, this point leans town to me; not definitely so but definitely not scum and 100% not strong scum.
Re: part 3
Gum dodging re: the Steve thing is ok. I don't find this particularly alignment indicative either way personally but I can see you calling it scummy. I don't think this is a strong argument for either alignment; this setup makes it super easy to call one guy town and one guy scum and call it a day. part 1: why is my conclusion not logical? gumshoe could not explain his thought process, can you help him out and do that? part 2: no this is wishy washy as hell. give a direct answer. why does gumshoe flip 180 on his stance? or explain why does the situation matter? part 3: i just addressed this and you are not making any sense. ~rayn
Re: part 1 let's do it like this:
6:10-- gummy trap
6:17-- rayn #DODGE
6:22-- gummy trap level 2
8:40--rayn demands explanation
8:52--gummy explanation
Your argument is the gummy explanation should happen at 6:22 instead of 8:52. The thing about it is that if it is a trap, he loses nothing by doubling down on the trap. There's no detriment to trying to go further with it. I don't see it as good play, but I don't see worthwhile as any alignment to do traps. However, if you're going to waste time with traps, then there's no loss in making an easy play to confirm your trap.
part 2. No it's not. I can see people reading this as scummy. I personally don't. I don't feel comfortable enough calling him supertowny for this to absolutely hate your push for this reason. I disagree with your conclusion that gumshoe is scum specifically for this. To explain better let's take a different scenario. Pretend with me for a second that Slam is town here. He knows either LSB/Balla is scum. Why should Slam care what LSB's read on Slam is? He shouldn't. There's no point because he needs to figure out if LSB is pocketing him (LSB is scum) or if LSB is giving an honest read (LSB is town). So him not giving a fuck what your read on him is leans paranoid town to me. That shows to me that he's actually concerned with reading you properly instead of being pocketed. I can be wrong here, but I don't think I am.
part 3. then maybe I'm not explaining myself well.
~g
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On April 03 2014 03:51 raynpelikonoshi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 03:47 getmoript wrote:On April 03 2014 03:44 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On April 03 2014 03:42 getmoript wrote:On April 03 2014 03:31 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Like here is how it went:
prplhz: "i don't think mayor matters, but the group order does"
rayn: "damn i don't actually think we should talk about this yet"
rayn: "yeah i agree mayor does not matter, mayor needs to do what the town says unless they wanna claim scum"
prplhz: "yes, exactly"
geript: "LOL PRPLHZ SCUM BECAUSE WHO IS MAYOR AND WHET MAYOR DOES IS THE SAME THING! RAYN ALSO SCUM BECAUSE PRPLHZ SCUM!"
rayn:"w00t???"
~rayn
Now you're just straw manning my argument here. My early argument for you being scum is moreso based on how you prefer to play scum which is specifically to protect your scumbuddies and push mislynches. Go back and reread it from my perspective; pretend you're me and I'm town. What you see is: prplhz: funky post rayn: bs +1 geript: attacks funky post rayn: +1 for completely different reasons, doesn't call/think/pressure prplhz rayn: looks at geript policy preference post, pushes geript, ignores prplhz for making a pretty analogous stance. Like it's really odd that you didn't push both of us for the same thing. You've done it before and you'll do it later on. No that's totally misrepresenting the situation. You are using fancy words to make something look like you want it to look like while it's not. Everyone can go and read the whole conversation in thread by themselves. Can you now answer my posts. Why do you refuse to answer them? ~rayn Which ones do you want me to answer? Like you keep up completely ignoring the points I'm making and spewing whatever crap you want to. I'm absolutely voting for you when you come up for lynch. ~g Why is prplhz scum and Cavalinho is not? You think Cavalinho is a good player. Why is he allowed to say nothing in thread but prplhz is 100% scum for what he has done? ~rayn
Yah I think Cav can be good. The reason why Cav isn't scum is because I'm clearly not scum. People have consistently ignored how I've literally told them the easiest way to read me. Just look at the prome post that I quoted in cultured. Like it's super easy. So if people think Cav is scum... fine I don't care about that; but people shouldn't be calling us scum because Cav is my other half so if you can't read him then you can read me. Like ezpz
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EPT
