On April 07 2014 13:00 Vivax wrote:
So how does hopeless that previously thought I was scummy and then goes to null say that JJD is town for not wanting to lynch me?

Because I don't think hopeless is saying that JJD doesn't want to lynch you. Rather, hopeless1der is saying that JJD could have given false information regarding his night action result to say that Vivax/Hopeless1der couldn't have done what they said they did.

It's hard for me to make much of this because I don't really agree with hopeless there. I mean, it seems to me that if JJD was scum and lied, he would essentially force a 1v2 (JJD vs. Vivax & Hopeless).
If we take your point of view, then he is setting himself against at least one town. If you got lynched, flipping town, he would be the next lynch/nuke target basically just get a 1 for 1 which seems like a poor trade for scum.

I know that your point isn't that hopeless' comment is wrong, it's that hopeless sees you as town. But, I think even that is sort of off because his comment seems focused on JJD's actions and is explainable if he sees himself as town regardless of your alignment.

I will go back to your inconsistency read in a second though since that part feels more understandable

Vivax

22405 Posts

April 07 2014 04:58 GMT

#2664

On April 07 2014 13:55 Hopeless1der wrote:

Show nested quote +

That read had nothing to do with my read on you, it had to do with my perceived read on JJD and what a scum-JJD might do vs what a town-JJD might do. Scum JJD lies to get one of us lynched. Town JJD does not.

You say he's town cause he doesn't want to lynch me. That implies scum would want to lynch me. That implies you knew or at the very least knew I'm town, after a post where you call me null. So no, the read didn't have nothing to do with your read on me.

Next you say TP is scum for not mentioning kita after you said he was working towards a town objective.

thrawn2112

United States6918 Posts

April 07 2014 04:58 GMT

#2665

really though because i'm undecided

Vivax

22405 Posts

April 07 2014 04:59 GMT

#2666

On April 07 2014 13:57 thrawn2112 wrote:
because he's my scumbuddy

Not funny, thrawn.

Amiko

United States1725 Posts

April 07 2014 04:59 GMT

#2667

On April 07 2014 13:13 Amiko wrote:
@Hopeless

When did you first think kush might be scum?

Why did you find Austin's case more compelling than Kita's given your game-long town read of kush?

Why not defend kush since you had been townreading him?

Also are you in a zombie army?

@hopeless I know Vivax answered these for you but I would actually appreciate if you can chime in on them.

Amiko

United States1725 Posts

April 07 2014 05:01 GMT

#2668

Also @hopeless
Sorry if we are overwhelming you a bit, but what is this post trying to say?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21139682

Reading it, it felt like you were scumreading kush but I didn't understand why since he had already flipped.

I don't see it as particularly scummy so this is a lesser priority for me, but I want to make sure I didn't miss a point you were trying to make.

Hopeless1der

United States5836 Posts

April 07 2014 05:02 GMT

#2669

On April 07 2014 13:59 Amiko wrote:

Show nested quote +

@hopeless I know Vivax answered these for you but I would actually appreciate if you can chime in on them.

I did just very poorly formatted, fine I'll fix it.

On April 07 2014 13:51 Hopeless1der wrote:

Show nested quote +

When he was being reasonable talking to rayn.

Show nested quote +

BIRDGOD

Show nested quote +

Because he was scum.

Show nested quote +

Hopeless1der

United States5836 Posts

April 07 2014 05:03 GMT

#2670

On April 07 2014 14:01 Amiko wrote:
Also @hopeless
Sorry if we are overwhelming you a bit, but what is this post trying to say?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21139682

Reading it, it felt like you were scumreading kush but I didn't understand why since he had already flipped.

I don't see it as particularly scummy so this is a lesser priority for me, but I want to make sure I didn't miss a point you were trying to make.

Reasons to be suspicious of kita: the entire "claim" and use of the scumometer was a planned scum event to fool the town. (possibly)

Amiko

United States1725 Posts

April 07 2014 05:03 GMT

#2671

Sorry and thanks for doing it twice.

Hopeless1der

United States5836 Posts

April 07 2014 05:05 GMT

#2672

On April 07 2014 13:58 Vivax wrote:

Show nested quote +

I didn't intend to infer anything about your alignment, I wanted to infer that scum love chaos and pitting town against itself, which is achieved by calling my check/your actions into question, something that JJD did NOT do, hence town points.

Hopeless1der

United States5836 Posts

April 07 2014 05:07 GMT

#2673

I need to go to sleep, good night guys.

Amiko

United States1725 Posts

April 07 2014 05:17 GMT

#2674

Although tehpoofter didn't return I want to weigh in on scumometer.

First, if the scumometer announces its results we know that he didn't use it because there was no announcement in thread. Well, there is a remote chance that we will get scumometer results in some future post, but it seems pretty unlikely since we didn't get an announcement in the night post.

So, let's assume kush had the scumometer and its results are private.
As scum, kush already knows the results of using the scumchecker on his scum partners. So, as scum, I would never use the scumcheck on my partner.
If I were scum, I would probably want to use the item, just to ensure it can't somehow be reclaimed by town. In that case, I'd target some random town, probably a VT, just to see if they come back as a third party role (or potentially as a miller). I don't really expect a second 3p role, but it's possible

(I wrote some stuff about daleks here, moved to the end of the post)

Basically, I feel scum has a slight incentive to use the scumometer because (1) it consumes the item, ensuring it cannot be used against them, and (2) in a rare case, it might reveal a potential 3p who could be a scum ally.

I guess there is some possibility of using the scumchecker on a scumally to ensure that the player has not been turned back into a town. But, an un-converter role seems like it would be OP for reasons we discussed earlier in the thread so I don't think it would exist (you get unconverted and just reveal all your scum former-allies).

RANDOM ASIDE I WROTE MID-POST ABOUT DALEKS / SERIAL KILLERS
Actually, I sort of expected a serial-killer role (maybe a dalek?). With 2 KP last night, maybe that's possible... if there is KP and a conversion tonight, we should consider players who were not roleblocked as potentially SK.
This doesn't feel that likely to me, however - alternating nights system feels like it makes more sense. I don't have any particular reason to believe in an SK right now, except that it might offset the high number of town protective roles somewhat. Also, thematically, the Dr. Who episode referenced in this game doesn't seem to have any daleks.

Amiko

United States1725 Posts

April 07 2014 05:28 GMT

#2675

At this point my choice is basically hopeless or kitaman27. I think there are fair cases for both, but I'll be nuking Kita.

Kita, I don't know for sure if the better nuke is you or hopeless. If you are town, please use what time you can to comment on the connections and I'll do my best to find remaining scum, I think we have a fair shot. I can only hope that the spirit of rayn guides this nuke.

##Nuke kitaman27

If I don't get to talk to you tomorrow (mornings are tough for me to post), gg!

Also, as a weird and amusing note, in the Catastrophe Game, Doctor Who just died (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447045-catastrophe-mafia?page=172#3425)