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If i could access scum QT and Hari Seldon was one of the players in the game i think it would be fair.
Not being able to communicate is the biggest imbalance in mafia game for scum.
Also marv, think about it, what if you had been Hari Seldon without mafia knowing it. You would have totally caught me on D1. Because as scum you are supposed to evaluate what you can get away with based on who the players are. I didn't know i was playing against yamato, why should i assume so? Also not being in game gives you an edge over other people because you can just tell what you see, you don't have to think about if you get lynched or if people believe you or not. You don't have to defend yourself in any case. You can just tell what you think.
Because i was playing against people in the game i wanted to see what this Sheldon guy does on N1, to get clues on who they are and from there on HOW TO DISCREDIT them. I made a plan, and i think it could have won us the game. Except that it would not because the Sheldon guy was not in the game. So we were TOTALLY an uninformed minority, whih in my opinion is NOT balanced.
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Also i think the scum extra vote should cancel town extra vote (make it so that Sheldon moves his vote). Otherwise it's nothing but a proof that there is a scum role that can fuck with the Sheldon guy, which in fact helps the town... 
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How do you suggest i should have proceeded to do it this game so that it's good for scum given that i thought he was someone in the game?
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Like you can't just say "wow you are so bad you should have done something".
I am perfectly capable of admitting i am wrong if i am in fact wrong and someone can tell me why. But given the information and the tools i had i do not see how i could have done anything that does not hurt my team in the long run.
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Well idk, maybe it's my fault because i just couldn't assume there would be another player who is not really in the game because i think it's just completely BS.
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On March 13 2014 00:29 Koshi wrote:
rayn is always mafia when it is the most fucked up mafia setup.
It is known.
I gave him a scumread for it in Suspicion mafia but the set up was not crazy enough. Evul scummers lying and stuff.
Well i was town in the Mini PYP so not always.
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I think role-cop was really useless ability, that's what i figured out really quick.
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rofl i just noticed that too.
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On March 13 2014 00:45 Koshi wrote:
Also. Rayn almost has exact same post number as me.
We must post in turns in Titanic game.
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On March 13 2014 00:48 thrawn2112 wrote:
here's another thing, it's really hard to balance out all these weird ass roles because you have no idea how the players are going to use them
-2nd foundation... I never would have thought that somebody who gets to be in a secret qt would have claimed the qt on d1. that was actually meant to be a buff to the mule. so no, the 2nd foundation wasn't random, i'd always planned on throwing the mule in there with 2 random townies, and since i knew i was going to pick a good scum player as mule I figured it'd be a buff for the mule. boonetown inadvertantly spoiled your advantage there
-seldon messages and town's reaction to seldon... I didn't expect that yamato's first post would be so... boring? i guess in hindsight what he did was probably correct play because it gave scum as little info as possible. i kinda expected him to claim "yamato" or something. I NEVER thought that town would be so trusting of seldon as they were. a few people grew paranoid when yamato voted grack, and who knows how more paranoid they would have been if the mule used telepathy. i think yamato's reads were just so good that it was very difficult for town not to trust him
That's one of my points.
You basically can't balance the game based on it "looks good on paper".
Basically the only way for scum to play that game was lynch townies every day. That was the ONLY way i could actually discredit Sheldon:
N1) find out what's thet guy up to
N2) make people know there is something that fucks up with the power
N3) drop a really hugeass WIFOM bomb
*losing one mafia is acceptable at this point. you can still win*
N4) make Sheldon work for you because of the WIFOM
D4-D5) LYLO, use the extra vote and ggnore.
If you lose 2 mafia the game becomes unwinnable because you can't deal with the Sheldon role (especially as i didn't know i could use the extra vote again).
One of the problems was that i could not tell the game plan to my team.
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On March 13 2014 01:06 thrawn2112 wrote:
i don't know.
i think i probably underestimated what you could have assumed about your role given the information you had about seldon (minimal, but more than every player)
i think you are probably underestimating how much damage your seldon abilities could have caused town given the information town had about seldon (none)
like imagine you are a townie. they didn;t know anything about seldon! alakaslam even decided it was so crazy it most have been host wifom. this seldon guy (apparently) has multiple votes even though he claims to only have 1, he leaves you messages, one of them missing letters, some of the messages don't agree with each other and seldon might even have to discredit himself by saying "i totally didn't write that last message and that vote wasn't me"
what about this scenario:
you use telepathy for the D3 (seldon's 2nd chance to post) post, and in that post you say "guys! that D2 post wasn't me! i'm town, so there must be some way for mafia to interfere what i'm doing!"
then real seldon shows up D4 and goes "uh guys the D3 seldon is the real liar! trust me, not him! btw here is my town cop check on alakaslam"
then tduring D4 the mule uses his extra vote on alakaslam. then the real seldon must immediately use HIS vote on not-slam
so from town's perspective, seldon has been essentially fighting and aruging with himself. if you are a townie who is naturally suspicious of everyone and everything, are you ever going to trust this guy as implicitly as everyone trusted yamato?
That's what i was trying to do onwards into the game!
I was going to claim a red check on myself from N2 so it doesn't even matter if town believes the Sheldon or not but the check is WIFOM and the messages can't be trusted and hopefully i gain so much town credit i can save Grackaroni until eternity.
If i knew the Sheldon role was not a player in the game i would have started earlier. I wanted them to claim and work for scum instead of the town. I still think it's unreasonable to assume there is a guy in the game who is really not there. Ugh.. that kinda fucked over me because i just couldn't assume so.
But yeah thrawn, i got the idea, i just approached it a bit differently because i thought the Sheldon guy was in the game and i wanted to figure out who he is (by letting him give a non-fake N1 message as they can't possibly claim their check).
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Like this:
"My post was fucked with on D3. My vote was fucked with on D3. There is something wrong. I checked rayn N2 he is mafia. I checked rayn N2 he is mafia. I checked rayn N2 he is mafia. I checked rayn N2 he is mafia. I checked rayn N2 he is mafia. I checked rayn N2 he is mafia."
wat to do, who to trust?
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On March 13 2014 01:23 thrawn2112 wrote:
oh another things, the jamming ability...
I think it actually ended up being pro-seldon instead of anti-seldon as intended. People spent so much time reading the message trying to decode it that yamato's will to lynch grack probably bled into the thread in a way it woudn't have if town hadn't of had to work for the message.
Yeah that's actually true.
But honestly for me it did not matter. It was not the message's fault Grack got lynched, it was his own fault. The only thing i wanted to achieve with jamming the message was to tell "there is something that can fuck with you".
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EPT
