EPTCultured Mini Mafia
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raynpelikoneet
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Just post good nalysis, no need to have 100 hours to play!  | ||
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On February 26 2014 03:47 Ange777 wrote: Well if you promise to not lynch me immediately, I will play. D1 immunity granted! | ||
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geez do not try it, DO NOT TRY IT! | ||
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DON'T DO ITTTT!!! | ||
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BOOM! | ||
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No it actually is my thunder! | ||
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[...] Pandain as Harry Potter was sent to St. Mungos! [...] | ||
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On February 26 2014 09:42 Toadesstern wrote: of course not, but I like this question. You replace WoS as my buddy to murder all of mafia. Easiest townread ever I like what you are doing. We can be townbuddies. | ||
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On February 26 2014 09:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: I coached Cavalinho in the last (ongoing) newbie game so no explanations yet. To elaborate more it's not about what he did say in the game because i have not even read the game. It's about what we talked about after he died. | ||
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On February 26 2014 09:47 geript wrote: No I don't. Look at the reason for the read he gave and don't tell me it's not bullshit. Yes you actually do if you are trying to convince people that was scummy. | ||
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On February 26 2014 09:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Cool beans, alright. Suki town 'cause feels. The rest of you, why aren't you as good at proving yourselves as her? Well me and Toad are obviously town. | ||
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Here i am, awaiting orders! ![[image loading]](http://i62.tinypic.com/14nirnm.png) | ||
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Mocsta: On February 26 2014 10:05 Mocsta wrote: Rayn Do u thibk its plausible for a town wave to infer I am a scum read already? idk. lemme reread what he said. I wasn't really paying attention to other than geript and then i tired to draw pictures but they went shit so i gave up and drew something... /GOTO INN *if it's allowed to smoke there* | ||
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On February 26 2014 10:38 Toadesstern wrote: [...] He didn't get in the thread and hold it against me that I'm asking a "stupid" question, instead he ended up with a plausible read on me, or so I think. Frankly speaking same goes for me, I didn't get back and yell at him for not reading the set-up. Does anyone really think either mafia-Rayn or mafia-Toad would pass up on this chance to call the other one a retard? I don't think so. [...] No it's actually the fact that if you were mafia you would not call me town for something like that and vise versa. Because why would you? Unless we are both mafia. Which we both know we are not. geript not reaching to this conclusion is imo weird as fuck. | ||
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If i can: /Commission nyan cat to save kiterayn | ||
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On February 26 2014 10:57 suki wrote: Rayn care to share your opinion on Mocsta? no opinion yet. | ||
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On February 26 2014 10:59 Holyflare wrote: oh oh rayn, would you believe me if I said I caught scum already? no. | ||
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On February 26 2014 11:10 Holyflare wrote: Remember what GG did? Joined while questioning. hmm.. Not sure if it holds water but we'll see.. | ||
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Also why did you question Mocsta about the gumshoe/you mistake? Why was it possible it's alignment indicative? | ||
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On February 26 2014 11:18 WaveofShadow wrote: Inside joke Rayn. Current Champions only. As for Mocsta, because I wanted to see the context of him backing off. As scum it's often difficult to simply back off a read, but in this case as scum he would have jumped on me for literally no reason which just looks awful on him---so with his explanation it means he's scum who jumped on for a purposefully terrible reason and backed down even though he knew it would make him look bad, or he is telling the truth---which isn't necessarily alignment indicative. I choose option #2. Ehh.. There is nothing alignment indicative in misreading someone's post and him calling you out because of it is definitely not alignment indicative. He just made a mistake, as town, or as scum. Therefore it's equally easy to back off from it as either alignment as it's a honest mistake in the first place. | ||
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On February 26 2014 11:14 Mocsta wrote: Im drafting up my issues with Suki so feedback on that would be good when its released. As an aside/observation/muse till then, I havent read in detail the interactions between Geript/Toad/Rayn (as I have been focussed on you + Suki) however I am finding Rayns approach to Toad odd (regardless of alignment). Basically I know Rayn doesnt respect Toads town play. Red Herring or something to keep note of? Well this is a bad post. | ||
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On February 26 2014 11:22 WaveofShadow wrote: Thanks for restating what I already said. So you are saying there was no point in your question because Mocsta would give the same answer 100% regardless of his alignment? | ||
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WaveofShadow Holyflare gumshoe Ange777 - for D1 bcz promises Toadesstern Cavalinho JarJarDrinks TheChyz suki Mocsta Vivax Geript | ||
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No it's for correctly describing gumshoe's meta and then making a really bad read that contradicts the meta he described. | ||
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ugh.. reasoning for voting for gumshoe contradicts the meta Wave brought up on gumshoe. In other words, gumshoe plays directly to his town meta that Wave (correctly) described and now he is voting for him. | ||
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On February 26 2014 10:22 WaveofShadow wrote: Yes gumshoe's post was reasonable, but also easy. It doesn't say a thing to me about yours or his alignment. I was curious as to whether or not he'd actually be playing this game as I'm used to him either playing his heart out, or lurking like crazy. Now this is exactly what gumshoe does. His scumplay is actually far better than his townplay because he realizes what town wants to hear and contributes towards that. As town he makes absolutely awful posts (sorry gumshoe ^^) that might not say anything at all or have one thought which might be "i don't know what X is doing" and there are 1000 words around it that explain his thoguht process and where he found that information that was in the end useless. He literally posts exactly what is in his mind at that time and it ends up in terrible posts that are like the easiest thing ever to attack. Now the green part in the quote makes me 100% sure WaveofShadow knows this. I also went to check on last couple of games where i remember both of gumshoe and Wave being town and gumshoe making his typical posts: Quiet game mini mafia: EOD1, we have outed mafia. gumshoe comes in 20min before the deadline, ignores the outed mafia and makes a hugeass case on Wave. Wave does not even consider gumshoe being mafia, in fact based on his N1 posting he says the opposite. TL Mafia LXIV: gumshoe makes terrible posts on D1 (like "vote me for mayor because i am so bad") and says nothing all D1. Wave never talks about gumshoe on D1, at all. Now both of these games in addition to my first quote from Wave support my argument that Wave knows gumshoe's meta pretty well. However, in this game, here is Wave's reasoning for voting for gumshoe: In this post gumshoe doesn't offer the option that doesn't fit his idea of what suki is doing. (For example, she is neither AND is town.) Here is the post in question: On February 26 2014 10:08 gumshoe wrote: Mocsta seems into it this game, overall just sharper off the bat then when I was scum together with him just a few days ago. Hes been rolling red alot lately and thats been frustrating him, but I hear none of that agitation in his posts so far. Preliminary read of course, but I feel good about his accusation not coming from a place of deceit. So now I'm left wondering, is he right about Suki? Suki's post doesn't quite feel like it was thought out days in advance, (it's a fairly sloppy one and obviously susceptible to critique) but it does feel crafted, which gives me the sense that she read her pm an hour ago and started over thinking her opening. The post itself is also one that calls back to old games, an attempt at inducing nostalgia. How someones posting makes us feel can easily influence our perception of them and the harry potter claim might be aiming for that. If Suki isn't scum she's either a) nervous, or b) baiting. Suki, which explanation do you prefer? See, a big fucking thought process that ends in somewhat bad conclusion (that really says nothing). Now Wave's reasoning for calling this conclusion scummy is really terrible. First of all there is nothing scummy to not think about a conclusion you didn't think of because... YOU DIDN'T THINK OF IT! Second of all this is all characteristic to gumshoe's townplay, which Wave very well knows taking account he correctly described gumshoe's town!meta earlier on. This case on gumshoe is horrible and is not from a townie | ||
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On February 26 2014 12:36 geript wrote: @Rayn. Your townread on JJD... You got some essplainin to do. This post and especially the green part reads really townie to me: On February 26 2014 11:42 JarJarDrinks wrote: Lol, I thought rayn was the only person I always read backwards. But actually, I'm starting to come around on you being town because I feel like gumshoe is using you to try and get suki lynched. Like I think u've been acting kinda scummy mostly because of ur suki read. But it's way scummier to call you town and sheep that case. | ||
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On February 26 2014 12:36 WaveofShadow wrote: lol. Terrible. Remember Nuclear Winter where I pushed a mislynch on gumshoe for doing dick all the whole game? His plaing his heart out or lurking is completely alignment non-indicative and I said so earlier. That post you quoted in green is not a meta case, and you are awful or scum for thinking that I would dare make one as such. Don't you dare to come tell me you are not aware of gumshoe's meta because in last couple of games as i just pointed out you have correctly identified his alignment while he has been making equally "scummy" posts than he has in this game. You cherrypick on some irrelevant part in one of his posts and regardless of if you know his meta or not (which you btw do - and don't even try to bring up some 6 month old game) the case is so fucking awful i don't even know what to say. How about you don't comment on the meta part because it's "no you" as neither of us can 100% prove being wrong on it but instead comment on the case you made that is fucking terrible. | ||
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On February 26 2014 12:46 geript wrote: Like, he's acknowledging how scummy it would look for him to sheep the suki case. That feels really off to me coming from any town perspective. Ahh okay. I don't know, i don't really get what JJD is saying there, maybe he can explain, it's not really clear to me. Anyways if your interpretation is correct why would he say that as mafia? Like say something irrelevant that makes people think he is avoiding doing scummy stuff? | ||
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My case on Wave is that he made a terrible case on gumshoe based on some scenario gumshoe "should have thought about as town" when in fact if he didn't think about it he possibly couldn't have thought about it in the first place. That's making something out of nothing, especially considering how gumshoe posts as town - yes, he makes all sorts of mistakes like this. For reference: In Extractor trick mafia gumshoe has even said "rayn claimed cop as town but not because of what he is saying but because of something else". Yes, that's our gumshoe. <3 | ||
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On February 26 2014 13:01 WaveofShadow wrote: I see absolutely no reason why he should be assuming that suki's posting is either coming from a scummy place or a bad towny place at all, and to me that shows a scum mindset of setting the stage of placing her in a bad light/misrepresenting what she does. He gives her no options that make her look good-towny. Scum agenda, very clearly. Well he has commented on this and explained his thought process which reads very clear to me. Yet you have nothing to say about the explanation but the original action instead? | ||
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He gives her no options that make her look good-towny. And this is very much bullshit because it's impossible as if suki is a "good-towny" she'll disagree and get into argument with gumshoe. | ||
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Maybe Holyflare got it. | ||
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On February 26 2014 13:25 WaveofShadow wrote: According to you, if suki thinks gumshoe could be town she has no reason to respond in a rage to his post. Or is that solely something that's supposed to come from me because I know gumshoe's meta? No i am saying i do think it's odd that you don't find it odd that a case that is really bad to you doesn't seem any bad to suki, who is the target of the case. Usually townies, when facing a bad case against them call it bad and are very vocal about it, especially when we are talking about suki here, who calls all the cases against her bad when she is town. So this is not odd at all to you? | ||
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Now how does any of this make any sense? | ||
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Why? | ||
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gumshoe, when you made this post: + Show Spoiler + On February 26 2014 10:08 gumshoe wrote: Mocsta seems into it this game, overall just sharper off the bat then when I was scum together with him just a few days ago. Hes been rolling red alot lately and thats been frustrating him, but I hear none of that agitation in his posts so far. Preliminary read of course, but I feel good about his accusation not coming from a place of deceit. So now I'm left wondering, is he right about Suki? Suki's post doesn't quite feel like it was thought out days in advance, (it's a fairly sloppy one and obviously susceptible to critique) but it does feel crafted, which gives me the sense that she read her pm an hour ago and started over thinking her opening. The post itself is also one that calls back to old games, an attempt at inducing nostalgia. How someones posting makes us feel can easily influence our perception of them and the harry potter claim might be aiming for that. If Suki isn't scum she's either a) nervous, or b) baiting. Suki, which explanation do you prefer? ..did you think suki is scummy or not? | ||
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Like everything he has talked about he has been misguided or "misguided" in. | ||
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On February 26 2014 14:03 geript wrote: That's not the point. The point is that he's aware of 'scumminess" but not pushing anything in either direction. IDK, I just don't get you Rayn. He clearly says gumshoe is scummy for sheeping Mocsta's bad case. no? | ||
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On February 26 2014 14:04 gumshoe wrote: I thought she was the scummiest person in thread at the time, which is not saying much. I dont put much stock in a conclusion I come to not an hour into the game, but the read itself was useful for pressure, so I made the post with the aim of hearing more out of her. As the game went on though, I got distracted and in my absence she deflected, then left. Well just a yes or no would do. No need to over-explain anything. Okay, so you thought she was the scummiest person in thread. Now your final line, what was it supoosed to achieve? What happens if suki answers (a)? What happens if suki answers (b)? What happens if she answers something else? In any situation, what does that make her? In other words, why did you ask those particular questions and what would you expect a townie/scum to answer (like, that's how you are supposed to scumhunt)? | ||
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On February 26 2014 14:10 WaveofShadow wrote: Rayn if gumshoe is 100% town (and presumably your earlier scumreads in that list seem to be based on other people jumping on him) where does that put JJD? I retract from my townread on gumshoe. | ||
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On February 26 2014 14:10 gumshoe wrote: I did not expect any particular answer, I played instinctually, in the moment I wanted to hear more out of her, so I crafted questions, I did not especially consider what her answers might be, or what they would mean before hand. Okay two questions: 1) Why do you ask questions that have no purpose behind them? Townies do things for a reason, usually because they try to ask stuff that makes people reveal their alignment. What's your reason? 2) Where does suki's actual answer put her and why? | ||
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On February 26 2014 14:14 WaveofShadow wrote: Well that's stupid. What about your own meta shit on him? I thought i knew what he was doing, apparently i didn't. Also my read on Mocsta or anyone has nothing to do with their read on gumshoe (like i don't do connection cases - i didn't think yo uare scum because you think my townread is scum). | ||
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On February 26 2014 14:19 gumshoe wrote: 1) I am reactive, not proactive, at points in the game I run through filters and find scummy things and build cases around them. Traps, well pointed questions, pressure, is not my forte, when I ask questions, my only goal is to create content, so long as I can get people talking I feel that thier alignment will reveal itself overtime regardless of the discussion itself. This is how I've always played, an answer to a question for me is not a fork in the river, but rather a random water toy sunk to the bottom of a wave pool. 2) She chose not to answer, which puts her at null. As the games goes on, I will probally look back at her reactions and try and put two and two together. At the moment shes not here, so not much to go on. 1) Okay so you are trying to create content with your questioning. Now why did you think asking some random questions is a better way to create content than asking about her scumreads? 2) See (1). Also how can you look at her reactions to this particular happening "later on" when you don't know what to expect in the first place? | ||
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You don't think suki is mafia, yet you say she looks scummy. You ask her questions, which do not help you in any way. You don't expect anything, and when she does something that says nothing you get nothing out of it. What was the point of the post in your opinion? | ||
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TheChyz you seem to think JJD is mafia, why? | ||
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On February 26 2014 14:42 TheChyz wrote: I don't think he's mafia, but I do think this sentence "But it's way scummier to call you town and sheep that case" is scummy. He is addressing himself to mocsta and basically saying (or this is how I read it, maybe misinterpreted) that if he [JJD] calls Mocsta town and sheeps that case it will make him [JJD] look scummier. And I don't understand why a town would be afraid of having a "scummier" image. If you are town, you know your intent was not scummy and you can give an explanation out of it. However if your scum it seems more likely that you are afraid of your image. That's totally not what he is saying. I am amazed how anyone who actually reads the post and the rest of the page it was posted in with any thought can think like this. | ||
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You just said there is a mafia motivation but no town motivation so why is JJD not mafia then? | ||
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On February 26 2014 14:47 gumshoe wrote: I think the real question you need to ask yourself Rayn is this, if I'm scum, what do I gain by flip flopping? If suki's town, I just keep pushing her, makes me look consistent and helpful, if Suki's scum why bus her in the first place only to flip flop? Also do you really think Geript is this dense? I feel hes is deliberately being unhelpful and hes getting a pass for it cause geript. I don't know. I have no idea what would your goal be from any perspective tbh.. That's why i don't push it further. It does not answer anything, jsut raises more question that will never be answered because you are gumshoe. I don't know what exactly do you mean with "dense" on geript, but yeah, he's quite meh atm.. I find it very unlikely he would read the thread and people's intentions this carelessly as town. | ||
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On February 26 2014 14:49 TheChyz wrote: NVM on the JJD case. I'm retarded and kept thinking he was refering to mocsta and not gumshoe. I also don't call him mafia cause 1 scummy thing from a person doesn't mean they are mafia. Actually yes it does. | ||
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On February 26 2014 13:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: geript has really been misguided a lot in this game. Like everything he has talked about he has been misguided or "misguided" in. | ||
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On February 26 2014 14:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well geript, you interpretation of me <-> Toad exchange is a big pile of i don't even know what but you are clearly not on the same page with us and your case on JJD is based on him talking about himself when he is actually talking about gumshoe which is in fact very easy to see if you read the post in question in context. On February 26 2014 14:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: He clearly says gumshoe is scummy for sheeping Mocsta's bad case. no? | ||
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On February 26 2014 15:04 gumshoe wrote: Do you feel somewhat sympathetic towards Geript because of how hes treated you?(ironic considering his whole case on toad is that he buddied you). How do you expect a scum Geript to play? What? I think he is scummy. | ||
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On February 26 2014 15:12 TheChyz wrote: You guys can play having 1 scummy thing on someone and immediately call them mafia. I don't. Kinda funny you say this because in your last game you called someone scum for their first post. | ||
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On February 26 2014 15:16 gumshoe wrote: See I dont get that from your posts, you portray him as misguided and foolish, is that the same as scummy to you? Well that's why i said "misguided or "misguided" ". I don't know what he is yet, if i had to say i'd say scum because he made really bad cases last game he was scum in but i need to see more from him. | ||
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On February 26 2014 15:19 TheChyz wrote: Ye, I played reckless. So I'm not allowed to play differently and have my philosophies change? Don't know what your leading to. All your doing is pointing out a playstyle that you probably don't agree with. Doesn't mean you have to like it. And im pretty sure both you and I would actually rather try to look for actual scum then keep talking about this thread clogging argument. Yes? I am pointing out that there is ~25 pages of content, you have pointed out one thing that you thought is scummy but it's not scummy after all and that's all you have had to say. I don't know why you think this is a better playstyle than being "reckless" (i don't even know what do you mean by that) but i can tell you it definitely is not. | ||
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On February 26 2014 11:16 TheChyz wrote: Ionno suki, are you going to come in and provide any attempt at reads or just ask questions all day long? As per your question, I have hunches on some things, but nothing I feel is actually worth saying atm. This is actually valuable for people trying to read you, so please, what are these hunches you were talking about? Could you point out the specific posts. | ||
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On February 26 2014 16:38 TheChyz wrote: kk. With geript I still have a problem of how he was so quick to say that rayn and toad couldn't be scum together. There was no explanation why he made that conclusion until I finally made him answer with All of these points are terrible. It seems more like he just put out some random statement and after being asked to answer on it it seems like he is backtracking. See how he goes to make several points. Not only does it seem like he is trying to be over defensive but that most of them are just a big pile of poop. Let's go over the points: 1) I don't even know what chummy means but it seems like the way you guys are acting early on. Again that doesn't really say anything and is something anybody can say about almost anything. 2) He is backtracking to a joke rayn made that makes him town? Well shit i think he just solved mafia. People making jokes = town. I don't understand the context but I believe that is irrelevant. 3) I don't even understand this one. Something again that rayn is towny to him. 4) Saying how its unlikely for something to happen which does not seem unlikely at all. In all of these points, NOTHING again answers why he think rayn and toad cannot be scum together. If anything it seems more like he is developing a rayn town read. This all seems like a load of backtracking and most likely hoping that he wouldn't get called out for his words before hand. Apart from that everything else just has no effort to even try and scum hunt. Thought he was kinda scummy but not this scummy until re-reading his filter now. ##Vote geript Is this a response to me? Also you said "some hunches" in plural. What were the others? | ||
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Now me/Wave argument about gumshoe cannot possibly be one of these "hunches" because it happened after you said you had some hunches. So the only conclusions is that you are making shit up. | ||
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On February 26 2014 17:13 TheChyz wrote: Well your asking me what my hunches are. Am I not allowed to post anything that I have found since then? Or should I pretend that my thoughts dont develop over time and stay 1 dimensional? Dunno what your on about. I especially asked you what those particular hunches were at that time. | ||
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On February 26 2014 15:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is actually valuable for people trying to read you, so please, what are these hunches you were talking about? Could you point out the specific posts. | ||
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On February 26 2014 17:29 Mocsta wrote: I like her attitude after my callout. I dont think a scum Suki had any need to maintain thread presence after I was getting hammered. Also, on a reread, I agreed with JJD that Suki was actually relatively light hearted. I completely misread that her dig on Toad was a retort to Toad calling her out, for example. There one or two other minor things, but I dont think its important to discuss them right now. No you literally reread him, even made a case that never ended up being a case because there were "townie things and scummy things so you ended up on a null read". Then, after suki has posted nothing at all after that, you say she is your #2 scumread. That's pure bullshit. | ||
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On February 26 2014 11:57 Mocsta wrote: hmmm started off by wanting to write a case on Suki but now ended up as nullish. Anyways for reference: + Show Spoiler + (1) On February 26 2014 09:08 suki wrote: For me, if you want to fake claim, you just do it.Hey guys, so I moved my thing that I had tonight to Wednesday day/night so I'm here now. I had to read my role pm a few times because it's kind of weird but anyways I'm Harry Potter. My power is I can shoot ##spells at people and make them do things. If we lynch correctly I learn new spells. Right now my spell list is: ##Expeliarmus - Makes target sheeping player provide reasoning on their vote otherwise they have to unvote. "I am HP, I have #spells" blah blah . The addition of "having to read my role pm a few times because it's kind of weird" is verbose and the type of fluff I find people write to make themselves feel safe with a lie <--- indicative of a mafia mindset. (2) On February 26 2014 09:38 Mocsta wrote: Sukmi U seem most out of place for me so far Everyone else is relatively carefree whereas u seem more try hard - in particular your claim is overly worded I get the history with toad, but your approach is not conducive towards gleaning alignment either On February 26 2014 09:42 suki wrote: So are you saying I'm scummy? On February 26 2014 09:43 Mocsta wrote: Scummiest so far, yes On February 26 2014 09:47 suki wrote: So then why isn't your vote on me? On February 26 2014 09:55 Mocsta wrote: This is an unusually passive aggressive approach for early game.- And something I throw out as scum all the time. Instead of trying to understand if my read on u is genuine or feigned, u play the psychological game and twist my lack of vote as something scummy. That diversion is it self very scummy. Now suki, were u aware harry potter is not in the game?? On February 26 2014 10:01 suki wrote: I've read this exchange a couple times and come to the same conclusion... null.lol what. ##vote Mocsta I never said anything you were doing so far was scummy, so who is twisting whose words? You, on the other hand, seem really intent on twisting the things I say to be scummy. Also I'm Harry Potter, of course I'm in the game. (and for the record I'm a different Harry Potter than the game rayn linked). I completely agree with what I wrote: "so then why isn't your vote on me?" is very passive aggressive for early Day1 and is a precursor to calling somebody scum. HOWEVER, I can't shake the feeling that Suki is retorting emotionally/personally -- which ties in with being called not Suki prior -- and thus makes me consider this is a townie going passive aggressive based on anger. (3) The rest of the filter makes me lean town somewhat. Im leaning towards I haven't communicated my position well, and Suki has interpreted me the wrong way. Now it's quite clear he has put a lot of thought into this case (regardless of the conclusion) if he is town. Okay, that means he has read suki's posts with thought and this is not a "okay let's just throw something from the top of my head" type of a post. The only thing suki posts after this is "I still think Mocsta is my #1 scumread. cya tomorrow". This is something that is at best a null post for town!Mocsta because it doesn't really say anything new. This is what Mocsta posts next: On February 26 2014 16:34 Mocsta wrote: Caught up and re-read Current reads: Wave Suki Gumshoe Calvalinho toadesstern ange777 jarjardrinks vivax geript Holyflare thechyz rayn Will expound in a bit. swamped @ work. Now, suddenly, suki is his top 2 town read, which makes no sense based on what suki has done between these two posts from Mocsta. Possible explanations for contradiction are:
Now, there is no fucking reason why Mocsta would go from reasoning(post1) to reasoning(post2) unless one of the above is true. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=444078¤tpage=32#621 In this post you question gumshoe about things i think either he, or someone else has already answered. Did you even read the big me/Wave/gumshoe discussion? Like, i don't see anything in that post that is not answered already. | ||
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On February 27 2014 05:02 geript wrote: Rayn, why are you so town on Toad? bcz of what i have already said. If you don't do anything real i will end up voting for you because scum want to break up people's townreads on other townies when they don't understand where they are coming for (yes, i just did that in GSL IV). Even if the read is as bullshit as you make it seem like it is in your opinion (which it isn't) it's far far more likely that it's townies who give town reads on other people based on bad reasoning at the start of the game because scum have no reason to do so. So get over it and go do something else, right now you are tunneling someone for bullshit reasons and it makes you look bad. Even if you are right that definitely does not make Toad mafia and you are never going to convince anyone with your case. This is also something i think you would realize as town which makes me think you are even more scummy. | ||
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On February 27 2014 05:04 WaveofShadow wrote: Rayn do you not think that's actually attacking gumshoe from a different perspective? Neither you or I mentioned his read of mocsta in conjunction with that post. Geript, am I town now? Because apparently now you may have to convince Vivax 'cause he wants to talk to you about me. No but it has been mentioned before. Vivax already said later on he does not want to question people for same stuff other people do and that's all i see in that post. | ||
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On February 27 2014 05:07 WaveofShadow wrote: K Rayn I have officially decided I like you this game. For once, just once, can we try and work shit out together? Well i already think you are town so yes. | ||
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On February 27 2014 05:10 geript wrote: I want you to admit it's because of my read. No it's because of the gumshoe debate where Wavi did come very townie off from. | ||
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On February 26 2014 11:42 JarJarDrinks wrote: [..] But actually, I'm starting to come around on you being town because I feel like gumshoe is using you to try and get suki lynched. Like I think u've been acting kinda scummy mostly because of ur suki read. But it's way scummier to call you town and sheep that case. ..than this: On February 26 2014 16:18 Vivax wrote: What I don't like about this post is that he can't simply say what he thinks about suki, but feels like has to put a Mocsta townread in front of it. That reads to me like he feels pressured to overjustify for picking a side in the debate, which is something I could see scum doing in a town vs. town argument, after all you're always painfully aware that what you say just isn't right, so you need to create a story. And this looks like a story, the story of how you think suki could be scum ONLY after thinking that mocsta is town, which is something I don't see townies do at D1. | ||
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On February 27 2014 05:19 WaveofShadow wrote: Yeah I'm reading JJD right now. It's sort of the same thing I guess but Vivax goes into specific detail while JJD simply just goes off of gumshoe's sentiment at the time. You are right though it's not completely novel and so now I feel better about being suspicious of Vivax. Can you read into JJD a little for me? He flip-flops around a lot on Mocsta which I actually find decently townie, but the problem is throughout his posting, his reads look as though they're echoing wherever he guesses thread sentiment to be going at the time. He also says he agrees with my sentiment (the post you and I argued about forever) but never comments on it beyond that point or expands; you'd think that a comment on his strongest scumread at the time would warrant a little more. The only thing that bothers me with JJD is that (i hope i am not lying here because i am not 100% sure if he has in fact done this ^^) he's not came up with a case that's actually JJD'ish already. But from what i read the post i just referenced in addition to Vivax' one, i stand behind my townread on him for the towniness of the thought process in that post. | ||
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On February 27 2014 05:19 WaveofShadow wrote: Yeah I'm reading JJD right now. It's sort of the same thing I guess but Vivax goes into specific detail while JJD simply just goes off of gumshoe's sentiment at the time. You are right though it's not completely novel and so now I feel better about being suspicious of Vivax. Can you read into JJD a little for me? He flip-flops around a lot on Mocsta which I actually find decently townie, but the problem is throughout his posting, his reads look as though they're echoing wherever he guesses thread sentiment to be going at the time. He also says he agrees with my sentiment (the post you and I argued about forever) but never comments on it beyond that point or expands; you'd think that a comment on his strongest scumread at the time would warrant a little more. This is actually a really good point and worth of investigating. | ||
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On February 27 2014 05:28 geript wrote: I missed this earlier. No, it's not a read I'm backing down on. I'm tired of backing down on my reads when I think they're 100% right and people aren't listening. Everyone said the exact same thing about Oats in LoL... who was right there? I don't give a hot damn if that makes me look scummy or if that makes you want to lynch me. It's my read. I'm going to end D1 with my vote on scum and pushing Scum and if you don't want to join me then that's your problem not mine. So you are going to vote for Toad until the game ends or you die? How is that productive? | ||
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but please please don't be like thins geript. okay? | ||
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On February 27 2014 05:34 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm not so sure I agree. His play is awfully close to Survivor series. I'm not saying that make him scum but what it does mean is he is very much aware of himself and what he looks like. I would say I'm on the townier side of null when it comes to him, but I find the Toad/Geript thing hard to believe is a town/town fight for some reason. I need to look into Chyz. No he is not. In Survivor he was giving opinions left and right and commented on multiple cases in detail. This is the "my way or highway" -geript that ends up being a massive shitfest or ragequit. geript and Toad, you can't lynch each other, it's not gonna happen today. Could you both please at least talk about other people? This is going nowhere atm. | ||
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On February 27 2014 05:52 geript wrote: I think he's town but that's only based on his post about having to go to his computer to post or something. WaveofShadow Holyflare gumshoe Ange777 Toadesstern Cavalinho JarJarDrinks TheChyz soft tho suki raynpelikoneet Mocsta soft tho Vivax Geript So what do yout hink about suki and gumshoe? I haven't really looked at them. I really don't like Mocsta's posting at all. His reasoning for calling people scum or discrediting them is what he does as scum. Yes gumshoe could be mafia. suki is a wildcard at the moment, i need her to post more and actually comment on what she wants to comment on and not what other people want her to comment on. What is it that you don't like about Holyflare? | ||
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On February 27 2014 05:59 Toadesstern wrote: ctrl-f mocsta my filter and tell me where. The only time I "agree" with him is this: I also want an answer to this. | ||
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You are not really pointing out what it is. | ||
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On February 26 2014 17:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: Here is where Mocsta makes a big fucking post on suki: Now it's quite clear he has put a lot of thought into this case (regardless of the conclusion) if he is town. Okay, that means he has read suki's posts with thought and this is not a "okay let's just throw something from the top of my head" type of a post. The only thing suki posts after this is "I still think Mocsta is my #1 scumread. cya tomorrow". This is something that is at best a null post for town!Mocsta because it doesn't really say anything new. This is what Mocsta posts next: Now, suddenly, suki is his top 2 town read, which makes no sense based on what suki has done between these two posts from Mocsta. Possible explanations for contradiction are:
Now, there is no fucking reason why Mocsta would go from reasoning(post1) to reasoning(post2) unless one of the above is true. geript comment on this, the bullet points are the important part which Mocsta most likely deliberately ignored. | ||
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On February 27 2014 06:21 Vivax wrote: WoS votes gumshoe, asks for metaless case. Gumshoe says he has some stuff at hand but waits for it to unfold. WoS becomes entirely disinterested into his request and gives him a townread. JJD asks me about Chyz, I say I have a not-scumread, but I won't expand on it cause it would be counterproductive in my eyes for the aforementioned reasons. According to WoS I am withholding information from town and scummy. Hmm okay that makes more sense. | ||
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On February 27 2014 06:21 Toadesstern wrote: In case anyone wonders because I've been mostly spending my time on geript and didn't get to explain more in detail. The above is one of the main reasons I don't like mocsta atm. This post makes very little sense from a town PoV imo. Okay I get that Rayn doesn't respect my townplay and I would have guessed so. Now I don't know what those irc talks are about but telling him to ignore me is just bullshit. Rayn doesn't respect my townplay, no shit sherlock, if he did he'd be voting geript right now... But not respecting my townplay doesn't mean he should just toss me in a corner and not try to read me. That's one of the most anti-town idea's I've ever read. I can actually say the feeling's quite mutual and I think rayn is aware of that. I am sure he knows I'm taking digs at him for being wrong A LOT in... I always forget the name... the parity cop game I already referenced. Still I do end up with a read on him and Mocsta isn't holding that against me. The reason that's a yellow and not an orange in my sheet is because I have no idea what thse irc talks were like but anyways, don't like that sentiment. The problem is that's not true and Mocsta knows it. I always look at the games from "this game" perspective. The person whose townplay i respect the least (besides supersoft because he is just a whiny bitch) is Oats, and yet, in every game i treat Oats as i treat any other player until he starts doing stupid stuff. Always, AL-FUCKING-WAYS! Read the post i posted about Oats/Toad SMB post game, this one: On January 27 2014 10:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: I policy lynch a shitton. I just do it after i see who are playing and who are not. I don't like policy lynching at the game start based on "this dude will not help anyways", i think that's dumb. Mocsta knows this! Again, I never, ever, at the start of the game think "yeah i can't read this guy so i ignore him". NEVER. The only point of that post by Mocsta is to grow distrust between Toad and me for some arbitary reason he made up. Maybe even make Toad go nuts on me for some IRC conversation i don't even remember, yes, i may have bitched about Toad's play after the SMB game but that NEVER translates to another game BEFORE something similar happens in this PARTICULAR game. AND MOCSTA KNOWS IT! 100% | ||
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On February 27 2014 06:30 geript wrote: No I get that read coming from Moc. Again I'm not super town on him, but I know how he could transition between those reads after thinking about it. I actually think the scummiest thing (a few times at that) that Moc has said was about Suki's question, "if I'm scum to you why aren't you voting for me?" Moc has off and on used that as a heuristic for catching scum. Even if it isn't a good one him insta reading her scum for that question felt really weird from town Moc. That's not the point. The point is he does a big read on suki's posts, and ends up in a null read on her. Then he "re-reads the thread" and has a different read on suki. Now what was the point of the FIRST post? He says he didn't even read closely but still he was able to write one of his biggest posts in the game on it?!??!!?!? Seriously? He is basically saying his first post is bullshit for some reason. Well the effort put on the post doesn't seem like bullshit to me. Much effort = bullshit post in Mocsta's opinion. Usually it goes another way around. | ||
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On February 27 2014 06:42 geript wrote: Meh I don't take it that way Rayn. Nappy nap time But that's the way it is. If i read the thread first time as it grows, and call you out for most of your posts and in the end make a post that ends up in "null", and after a while i say you are town for the same shit, what do you ask yourself? 1) Why is this contradictory? 2) Why does the guy call out my posts as the thread grows but now calls me town for it? 3) Did he not read the thread closely the first time? But fuck, he did even do a full re-read of my posts as he EVEN STARTED TO BUILD A CASE on me.. but ended up on null. Now he did another re-read of the thread (my posts) and calls me town. Okay so, this guy has read my posts THREE times. Has three different conclusions.. Okay maybe the first one and the second one can be explained by misreading. But fuck, THREE TIMES?!?!? No fucking way. | ||
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On February 27 2014 06:57 geript wrote: If that's the case then you need to explain how Moc is different from Toad then. Because toad is like sacred terrify for you but doing the same shit. Because Toad has clear train of thought that does not change for no reason which is totally different from Mocsta. He has a read and he is pushing the read. | ||
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On February 27 2014 06:32 Holyflare wrote: kiterayn, why does mocsta hate me so much?  also read this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=444078¤tpage=40#794 Yes i read that and i agree with you. | ||
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##unvote ##Vote: Mocsta | ||
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Vivax now it's time to hear your read on TheChyz, please. | ||
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On February 27 2014 07:47 gumshoe wrote: Bad timing, I've just given you five by my count. Well your reasoning for scumreading suki is absolute crap, especially the part where you compare TheChyz' meta which he already said himself does not line up with his meta from last game. What gives? | ||
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So no gumshoe, i don't understand a single portion of that post. | ||
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If you are town do so, please. | ||
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You may call me the worst mafia player ever if he is mafia in this game. | ||
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On February 27 2014 08:01 Toadesstern wrote: Deal. What do I have to say / what are you allowed to call me if he's town? Geript and Mocsta more scummy but bottom 3 is still too good odds to let this slip. Well we already know you are the worst mafia player ever soo... j/k, idk, i don't care, i just know he is town for reasons i will not elaborate on. | ||
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On February 27 2014 08:11 Holyflare wrote: :O! i feel vunerable i am shocked nobody has even mentioned ange by the way, not even once i swear. even as a joke end day lynch for lulz? dat scummyness! I have mentioned her. She is confirmed town for D1. | ||
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On February 27 2014 08:13 TheChyz wrote: I think WoS and Toad are the most towny. On the flipside vivax is playing very overdefensive and he goes in his long post about WoS which I think was just more about trying to find something scummy and have people jump on it. It's fairly easy having a bias on someone being scum and being able to find some small scummy things but nothing he said seemed concrete. Also I don't like that he does not want to share his read on me. Also in bolded it just seems very manufactured and why would you not be willing to share a read on someone no matter what is happening to them. Especially if someone is being voted on quiet a bit, if you think they aren't scum, wouldn't you atleast look at him/her more to see why that is the case and make your case on it instead of ignoring it. It's like he is ok if town were to mislynch because he didn't want to take any pressure off me. Might be just me but it seemed hella weird. The Vivax part is interesting because he already saw how you did respond to pressure (which was you didn't). I don't get why he thinks you are under pressure since you yourself clerly didn't care about the pressure at all. | ||
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On February 27 2014 08:18 Cavalinho wrote: Because I died immediately last game. I'm going to try being much more measured instead of just posting shit and seeing what happens. But you were not posting shit. The town was shit and you were the most townie person in that game. There is no reason to not do anything you did in that game. | ||
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On February 27 2014 08:21 Vivax wrote: Imagine you're scum and a townie defends you thinking you're town. Imagine you're town and a townie defends you when you're not really at acute danger Imagine you're town and a scum defends you. All alternatives aren't really attractive except for the scum party involved, except when you're at realistic danger of being lynched, which you weren't. Shouting your townreads out loud without need only helps scum in picking their targets, for the nightkill and for lynches. They will know who they can push safely without facing resistance and who they have to NK. Besides, town shouldn't spend time circlejerking around why somebody is town in such situations, but why somebody is scum. Of course it's situational, and in your case I didn't feel the need to redeem you from anything to find scum. I simply didn't find you scummy like others did, and that's all town needs to know. Now this is not really what translates to clarity and transparent so i heavily disagree with this post. There is no reason why one should not give out townreads, especially with reasoning. I understand the "useless" part but if half of the players find someone scummy and you don't, there is no reason to do what you did, which is you said "TheChyz is not scum but i won't tell you why". You cut off the bad cases if you know better because it gives people a better read on you and if you are right it forces the town to focus on targets that are important. | ||
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Why i am townreading TheChyz is this post: On February 26 2014 17:02 TheChyz wrote: Just some stuff on you and WoS clogging up the thread with your discussion surrounding gumshoe. It just felt like it was going no where and more like an ego thing at the end (which if I remember correctly I think WoS sayed he kept his vote in spite or something along those lines). Also suki just rubbing me the wrong way with here weird defensiveness and interactions with mocsta. Not sure what but something from reading her filter just doesn't seem right. And somethings on mocsta but I have to re-read his filter to see what. Mostly I just remember his very jumpy nature from a target to another and his vote is very weak in my opinion. But nothing I think will lead anywhere atm and just something to maybe keep an eye What was going on at this point of the game was that he was accused of contributing nothing and just saying some half-arsed stuff. What does he do? He gives more half-arsed stuff, but he answers what he is asked for. I actually thought this post was really scummy because it's so goddamn wishy-washy, but then i thought to myself after he answered me on the "hunches" thing: Does this make sense from mafia perspective? No. If TheChyz was mafia he would know he is (correctly) under pressure. What would (especially new) mafia do in that situation. Well i would make damn sure my story sticks and i give precise answers and not some wishy-washy crap. In fact this post looks like he skimmed over my question and gave me an answer from top of his head, which i find REALLY unlike for him to do if he was mafia. Also his later responses to me regarding this support that. | ||
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Working that way gives town less information and more info is always better for town. Because this game is not about blues, it's about scumhunting (and townhunting is a part of scumhunting). | ||
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On February 27 2014 09:02 Vivax wrote: Did you compare gumshoe's meta to GSL? Feels a lot different to me. Agree on geript though. I'd throw WoS in there though, still gotta hear from ange7, and I wouldn't discount suki yet, but I still got to dive her filter. Did I miss anyone else? Well gumshoe has proven he is familiar with his meta and he just played scum with me in that game so he knows what i know. It's not impossible for him to intentionally "dumb down" his play from informed to "uninformed". yes suki is a questionmark aswell. | ||
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On February 27 2014 09:05 Vivax wrote: Rayn how confident are you that HF is town? Didn't like those questions he asked me back then. I felt like he wanted me to say obvious stuff. There is a certain pattern in how he operates as town which i have never seen him do as scum. I read the following games earlier on today: - Vengeful (town) - Titanic II (town) - Really small mini (town) - Survivor (scum) - TL Mafia LXIII (scum) - Shadow (scum) | ||
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Oh the answer, very confident, very very confident. | ||
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On February 27 2014 09:54 suki wrote: One thing. There are too many people being called out for scummy. Town is ina horrible atmosphere right now which indicates to me that scum are actively stirring shit up What? | ||
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On February 27 2014 10:01 WaveofShadow wrote: I wouldn't mind some acknowledgement form you re:Vivax, Rayn. I don't appreciate how you've essentially ignored everything I brought to the table about him since I started and the second Vivax counters you engage him. I am more interested in my read on Mocsta at the moment. I don't care about Vivax because he is voting for the target i think is most likely mafia. In case Mocsta proves himself as town then i'll look into Vivax. I want more from the people who are NOT voting for Mocsta (don't think he is mafia) and not pushing any lynch. If we have a counter-wagon or Mocsta starts shitting townie bricks then we can talk. I think your case on Vivax is okay, but my case on Mocsta is better. If you want more detailed answer you have to wait until things happen. | ||
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On February 27 2014 10:02 suki wrote: Like for all the activity in the thread so many people have been called out as scum and there's no consensus. Toad and geript are at each others throats. Mocsta is being wagoned on. Thechyz, vivax now, gumshoe, wave. All of them can't possibly be mafia Usually town has some direction day one.this game there is none Funny thing, in the last game you got killed you called about seven people mafia on D1. And now you think town has no consensus, because 12 people have called 5 people scum (btw all of those people are definitely not even lynch targets any more). | ||
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What does that achieve? | ||
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Now what does you missing mafia (whatever that might mean) have to do with what the rest of the town is doing and you misrepresenting it? On February 27 2014 10:19 Mocsta wrote: There was nothing to respond to U created two situations where I must be scum only I'm. Not.. So didn't understand your points and responded accordingly already I want you to answer specifically these things:
[2.] I don't understand how you read suki's posts three times and end up in a different conclusion every time. Which time you didn't read closely, because i can't believe you read someone closely enough to make a big post on them but not closely enough that after a re-read you form a different opinion on them. After your last re-read, which are the posts from suki that outweigh the earlier scummy posts from her so much that you are confident enough to call her town? Now Mocsta, i know you know how to make people think about certain way of you when you are mafia. You appeal to emotion a lot because you know what people want to hear. Based on suki's case on you it's totally possible that you changed your read on her just to throw her off you, which apparently worked out if you are mafia and she is town. The fact that you call me town now, it does not work, and i also want ot hear this:
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Please guys, give your opinions and participate more. | ||
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At that time there were three real cases. Case on Mocsta, case on you and a case on TheChyz. Nobody was really pushing anything else. This is not "all over the place" by any means. Also there are no people telling each other to go fuck themselves or refuse to engage into discussion with someone else or generally raging by any reason - which is another instance of shit atmosphere. So, suki's interpretation of shit atmosphere is totally incorrect and she could not even explain it later on. | ||
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On February 27 2014 11:49 gumshoe wrote: There is a difference between conceding that someone isn't scum because of one post, and believing so firmly in their townieness as a result of that null at best opening, that one is willing to literally orient their play around that person alignment. I am going to answer this. What the fuck are you doing? | ||
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On February 27 2014 12:05 WaveofShadow wrote: Weren't you the one that said town gumshoe is all pants on head? I don't get this: gumshoe makes an argument. JJD answers the argument. gumshoe asks him to elaborate more on his answer. JJD proves his statement. gumshoe says "no that was not my argument, in fact it was this (something else)". That makes absolutely no sense. | ||
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On February 27 2014 12:22 Mocsta wrote: 1. My personal assessment of your character 2. My attention is very diverted this game cos of real life. Hence what I think about things changes when I reread. Yes I'm guilty of outputting low formed thoughts. 3. Mainly because u approached early game ignoring me. I expected u to spend a lot of time on me given we were just hydraed. Well this is not detailed enough answer for me. | ||
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On February 27 2014 12:41 Mocsta wrote: Lol chz M first comment in the gsl scum qt was that BH promised to roll me town and didn't. Not that it matters but I did the same thing this game Anyways I'm not spelling ya name wrong intentionally Auto correct in a rush. Did you claim scum or modkill yourself? | ||
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So either Mocsta has requested the same thing again and didnt' get it or he is modconfirming himself as town in which case he should be modkilled. | ||
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Not that it matters but I did the same thing this game | ||
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Yes and he either got it which modconfirms him as town or he didn't which makes him scum. Anyways the statement is out game information and totally BS. | ||
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Then, when i make my decision i will never ever look to him again and treat him as confirmed!alignment. Which is fucking shit but that's how it goes. | ||
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If Mocsta is mafia this game is invalid. Thank you for ruining the game Mocsta. ##unvote I'll look into other people tomorrow. Good night. | ||
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##Vote: Vivax | ||
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Anyways i am not interested in your alignment or what you think because i don't care. | ||
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Btw i also think you are modconfirmed town, despite me thinking you were town earlier. Hosts should never interact with the game in any way and while your modconfirmation is most likely crap there is a chance it's not because it makes sense. So from now on i will make a policy that i refuse to believe anyone who get's "modconfirmed" by stupid hosts or does BS shit like Mocsta is town and if it ruins the game so be it because it's not my fault. | ||
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On February 27 2014 06:21 Toadesstern wrote: In case anyone wonders because I've been mostly spending my time on geript and didn't get to explain more in detail. The above is one of the main reasons I don't like mocsta atm. This post makes very little sense from a town PoV imo. Okay I get that Rayn doesn't respect my townplay and I would have guessed so. Now I don't know what those irc talks are about but telling him to ignore me is just bullshit. Rayn doesn't respect my townplay, no shit sherlock, if he did he'd be voting geript right now... But not respecting my townplay doesn't mean he should just toss me in a corner and not try to read me. That's one of the most anti-town idea's I've ever read. I can actually say the feeling's quite mutual and I think rayn is aware of that. I am sure he knows I'm taking digs at him for being wrong A LOT in... I always forget the name... the parity cop game I already referenced. Still I do end up with a read on him and Mocsta isn't holding that against me. The reason that's a yellow and not an orange in my sheet is because I have no idea what thse irc talks were like but anyways, don't like that sentiment. On February 27 2014 09:03 Toadesstern wrote: yeah. I've got geript, Holy and Mocsta as red/orange/yellow in that order. If I ignore Holy for because of mysterious meta reasons the only people I'm left with are Ange and gumshoe as replacements. gumshoe technically speaking a green on my list but the weakest of them all. Ange still neutral for obvious reasons. green: Toad does not respect my town play -> i often have crap reads in his opinion red: but he trusts my meta-read on Holyflare enough to ignore his scum suspect These two don't go together very well. | ||
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On February 27 2014 07:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Shit i think i have cracked Holyflare's meta completely. On February 27 2014 07:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: btw i guarantee everyone Holyflare is town. You may call me the worst mafia player ever if he is mafia in this game. On February 27 2014 08:01 Toadesstern wrote: Deal. What do I have to say / what are you allowed to call me if he's town? Geript and Mocsta more scummy but bottom 3 is still too good odds to let this slip. On February 27 2014 08:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well we already know you are the worst mafia player ever soo... j/k, idk, i don't care, i just know he is town for reasons i will not elaborate on. idk if someone else has a "mysterious meta-read" on Holyflare. | ||
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What bothers me about Vivax is his.. idk what to call it.. apathy towards anything? It's like he doesn't care about anything at all and i don't see the motivation to find mafia between his posting. Now this in itself is not a certain tell especially as Vivax has not played in a while but what i do remember from Vivax is that he's either fucking awesome and nails all the scum or everything goes south from the beginning led by him (just like me <3). I get that he can cut his entusiasm to post like a madman and call stuff out left and right but one thing that usually does not change even when people's playstyle changes is the motivation of posts and the overall quality. Smaller posts tend to merge into bigger posts but the quality is there. I just don't see the quality and the will to really find mafia in his posts. | ||
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On February 27 2014 18:05 geript wrote: Partially because it's D1 so town is more likely to flex to trust a solid townread's opinion. Partially because I can see scenarios from both perspectives that would get him both remembering the meta read and ignoring it for the time being. I don't think anyone should do this because it's really fucking dumb. Someone being town does never make them right and to be blindly trusted. | ||
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Like just a small comment like "i like this post", or "i disagree because [insert small reasoning]", or "this is scummy"? It would be valuable to know where you stand at each point of your catch up as by that way you are "reading the thread like everyone else is". No need to ask anything but just to comment on, to let people know where you stood at each point of the game and what your thoughts were at that time. If it does not suit your style then ignore this proposition. | ||
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a) It's really easy to do as town considering your situation and everyone can see a bit of where you stand and why b) it's really hard to do as scum as you obviously have read the scum QT first and have a grasp of what's going on already and will slip up. | ||
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On February 27 2014 21:10 Vivax wrote: Rayn tell me more about this moconfirmation stuff. It seems like horseshit to me. Also, I'm disappointed. Mocsta, you had a chyz, rayn and HF scumread back in ur list post. Now it's all Chyz and me when the votes seem to swing in my direction, one of them being one of your feel scumreads (fuck those feelreads). Post reasoning for me being scum. Mocsta makes a post that he knows will raise a question to me that cannot possibly be answered. I know there is like 99% chance mods have told him they will not give him town for his request but it's still a possiblilty that will always be nakking at my back and it's a fucking cheap thing to do as scum. Like if someone says "if you don't believe i am town now i will never play a game with you again". I don't like it so i just consider him town and i don't care what anyone thinks about it. | ||
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On February 27 2014 22:03 Vivax wrote: Ange7, can you tell me what you think of Mocsta's early aggression on suki in the early game banter around page 14? Like, he calls her for scum for overly wording a joke claim. On the other hand he's the first to call somebody out as scummy if I'm not mistaken. shh.. don't distract ange until she has caught up plz. | ||
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On February 27 2014 22:10 Mocsta wrote: Rayn you are an idiot and im sick of hearing you bitch about it. My first post in the game... not once have I insinuated I am town because of this. Drop it. I don't care man. Your post was a dick move. You know exactly how i deal with it regardless of what i say. so either be town or be a dick. | ||
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I'm gonna sheep the best case when i am done with broodwar. I can't understnad what's going on @ the last couple of pages and it confuses me. | ||
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On February 27 2014 23:22 Holyflare wrote: stop the wifom of your mind, that post meant nothing and it's actually more likely to modconfirm him scum than town No i don't really want to. You all can lynch Mocsta if you want to. My game was ruined D1 and i don't care. | ||
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If there is no consensus on the last couple of hours a couple of players will shout like madmen. | ||
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I'll be back before deadline if i wake up. | ||
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On February 28 2014 10:52 Vivax wrote: Hey Rayn who should I shoot? I dunno, are you vigi? | ||
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Vivax claimed blue and mafia didn't save suki right? | ||
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On February 28 2014 14:12 gumshoe wrote: Then why bus Suki in the first place? Why would scum arrange a lynch to be between scum ) : the only way we lose here Rayn is if we defeat ourselves, lets not do that. Mocsta called all his fucking scumteam scum on D1 @ LXIV. | ||
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On February 28 2014 14:15 Cavalinho wrote: I voted suki to start with and then TheChyz pressured me to change it because apparently it was stupid. Well that's not really what happened. You basically called suki town and TheChyz asked why your vote is still on suki. | ||
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On January 29 2014 09:43 Mocsta wrote: Guys its obviously close to end game if we lynch town. Lets make the most of the 48hrs and not rush into voting anyone. Treat this like an instant majority lynch (which it kinda is with the mayor power anyways) FYI, I am working off: Town Pool of players for lynch ordered by scumminess + Show Spoiler [more here if you want to read] + Frankly, Bums play makes a lot of sense as scum.
In short: he is doing the bare minimum to blend in whilst contributing nothing. SCUM What I would like to see from bum: (1) Please give me an update on your top 2 or 3 scum reads with justifications to why. (2) I would also like to know if you have been in correspondance with Coag. Coagulation
Some questions to all regarding Coag: (1) Has anyone shared PM/IRC with Coag? If so, has the game actually tried to be discussed in a way conducive to solving it? (2) Bum/Coag: Did you two talk together before Coag voted you as mayor? Lower Priority Reads Skanjabs I would like him to detail his scum read on Coag more. I am concerned not by him not being able to explain his read; but moreso, why he even started considering Coag in the first place. Oats I dont know what I want out of you, and I don't know how to approach. Somethings you have done I thought are quite townie (i.e. emotionally invested in the game); than there is stuff like outing the PM circle which I cant comprehend as a town action. You have played with Skanjab and Coag. What is your read on those 2 players? Balla24 I know you had an early scum read on me, and started ignoring me. Without being able to talk to you I have no way to read you; and your activity seems to have dropped recently. Everyone I trust thinks you are town though so I am giving you some benefit of the doubt. This will only hold for so long though without new discussion between us. Can you please update me with your read on Oats. Also, what do you make of the VE kill? bumatlarge was mafia Coag was mafia Balla was mafia Mocsta definitely busses if he wants to. | ||
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On February 28 2014 14:20 Cavalinho wrote: Yes, but do you honestly believe that Mocsta and suki, both being mafia, would turn around and both be the highest votes of the day? That's what happens if you bus because people talk only about you. Remember that if Vivax hadn't claimed blue he would have most likely get lynched. | ||
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On February 28 2014 14:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: That's what happens if you bus because people talk only about you. Remember that if Vivax hadn't claimed blue he would have most likely get lynched. Actually i am not sure this is even true because i still have not re-read so maybe i shut up before i have actually read what happened after my vote on suki. | ||
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On February 28 2014 14:23 gumshoe wrote: I guess? Are you telling me mafia allowed the lynch to be between two scum? Eh. This has happened in the Quiet game where the lynch was between Mr.Cheesecake and Corazon on D1. Also in NMM where we piled on zarepath and when he fakeclaimed we decided to lynch Balla. It's not that black and white, it depends on the stiuation and what actually happened and if scum can or can't do anything about it. Now i actually do shut up and go do the read so i even know what i am talking about. | ||
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gumshoe is scary. Like really scary and i would keep an eye on him. He's like scum kushm4sta way of right. It's like he is too right in calling JJD and suki scum together. I read pages 74-76 and my impression of gumshoe is "what the fucking hell, is this post-flip already??". Really, if you don't believe me read it. Either he is playing a towngame of his life and is just really right or he is too right and scum. Anyways would not lynch but instead listen to unless something really strange happens. Wave is really feelyeyey! I like Wave a lot. Good Wave <3 Vivax will prove his claim tonight. If he is mafia he outs himself or they waste a roleblock on him as long as he is alive. Both are good for the town. If he claims he shot the same target mafia did, we lynch him no questions asked. Toad never talks anything about suki. Worries me a bit. Like, it does line up with his scumreads on geript/Mocsta but to not talk anything at all about the other main lynch candidate is really odd. I have yet to read the SMB game and how Toad acted as town close to lynch. More to come on this. Basically there is no way Vivax is fakeclaiming. I have a man-crush on Wave. His posts are so cool, like supercoolio and feel-y. geript is really bad, like really really bad, but i don't know if scummy. Cavalinho's comment on Chyz pressuring him is weird. If there is "pressuring" on his vote on suki it's JJD and not Chyz, Chyz asked a simple question which btw is correct. Other than that, Chyz is really fucking scummy. Like "idk what to do with my vote, plz teammates help me". One of Cavalinho / TheChyz is scum. I am really sure about it. Like really really sure. I just don't know which one yet. Mocsta gets a free pass for like until close to LYLO because JJD is also friggin scummy. Now it's still possible Mocsta was away, suki was away, and Cav/Chyz didn't know what to do and scum had no chance of pushing to vote into anything but 2 scum on the line, so my theory stands. Possible? Yes. Likely? No. But still possible. Anyways. Vivax - you gotz to shoot into JJD/Cav/Chyz based on what they do on this night phase. One thing that speaks in Chyz' favor is that he indeed didn't save suki by voting Mocsta. So maybe don't shoot him after all, it's unlikely he is mafia unless Mocsta is. Other contenders for mafia are imo Toad and geript, in that order. gumshoe and Mocsta as wildcards that should be considered if something weird happens, but not for days. Just keep and eye on them. Next thing i do is gonna be the the Toad shit from SMB which i have been trying to do for like a day but the thread just keeps getting bigger so maybe i now have actual time to do so. Shame on you Broodwar, headache and sleep for that. | ||
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..as "pressuring you into not voting suki", but this: On February 28 2014 08:49 JarJarDrinks wrote: can we lynch this guy? ..is not? ??? | ||
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On February 28 2014 16:08 Cavalinho wrote: Let's take a quick look at these two quotes. Chyz said that he didn't mind if suki was lynched, but kept his vote on geript. He then takes credit for the lynch, even though he didn't actually partake. Compare this to my involvement. My case was supposedly bad, but I switch on the lynch upon realizing that it is and thinking that suki is town and wind up with a vote on the wrong guy. If my vote is on mafia, no less one of his scumreads, why is it that he is trying to get me to vote someone else? Especially when he supposedly wants this person dead in the first place? (Don't forget, this goes for JJD as well. Both of them came up with weird reasons for pushing my vote away, even though Chyz came up with one that's more solid, despite the fact that it was right.) Yes that's what i was thinking about aswell as i read the thread. But it does not make sense he did not vote for Mocsta unless Mocsta is mafia too. Like he says he is okay with both suki/Mocsta dying, he is here watching, but does not save his godfather. It makes no sense unless Mocsta is scum too because he could easily just say "fuck i think this lynch is better" and vote for Mocsta with some arbitary bullshit reason. | ||
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On February 28 2014 16:28 geript wrote: I disagree, but like that sort of damage control needs to be done way earlier. Exactly, that's why lynching mafia on D1 as scum is terrible. It confirms too much when you look at early D1 reads. It's the worst position you can ever be as mafia. | ||
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On February 28 2014 16:31 geript wrote: Rayn here's the situation. Scum has no thread control or presence. I'm calling it. I'm town, you're town, Wave's town, HF's town. Vivax is probably town. Like it's a really big unlynchable circle right now. Yes, i agree. That's why the mafia D1 lynch was horrible for them. That's exactly what i mean. Whoever is scum with suki i know she is good enough to know to not lynch her if it's avoidable and she would tell that in scum QT. That's why Chyz is town too. | ||
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On February 28 2014 16:35 TheChyz wrote: Thanks for calling my post terrible and basically using almost all of the same confirmed townies that I listed aswell. ++ points to you The post is terrible because you basically list what suki has done but you don't end up in any new conclusions. Like everything you concluded has been said already. | ||
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On February 28 2014 16:37 geript wrote: The only time I've ever seen 2 scum up for lynch was in a hydra game iirc. And that was 99% because of how active and late day shenannies there were. Like town refused as a group to lynch town and balanced on reads and were deciding which of 3 scum to lynch (Sandroba/syllogism got a free pass though). NSB and Raynmaster were the default lynch away from FMB(Prome/someone), WaveofCheesecake and MockArmor. I've read a bunch and I can't think of any other similar situation with both wagons being scum day 1. Again read these: A Quiet game mini mafia Normal mini mafia Episode 1 | ||
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On February 25 2014 19:17 Palmar wrote: But tbh, 90% of skill in mafia is just sheeping the right people. So there's that. Trust it. | ||
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It was so terrible reasoning it was good! | ||
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On February 28 2014 16:58 geript wrote: Remind me after game but after skimming to see the scum teams, I think that's based more on who the teams were. Besides, Moc has actually had an ok thread presence. Yes but he was not here, suki was not here, when the lynch was actually swung from "we don't know what the fuck to do" into "let's lynch suki/Mocsta". Vivax was on the table, gumshoe, JJD.. They were all on the table at that point. | ||
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On February 28 2014 17:02 Mocsta wrote: Not really, im just posting for in case I flip someone will finally listen. otherwise ppl pretty much ignore everything I write. I am listening to you and you are not getting lynched any time soon. | ||
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On February 28 2014 17:05 geript wrote: No Vivax was effectively off because of the claim. Gumshoe, idk I never really felt like he was gaining traction. JJD, idk maybe but like so many people have given him a soft town read at points that I find it hard to believe most people would shift to him. Like it really felt like to me it was Mocsta, suki or me; just that no one wanted to "roll the dice" on me. There is no way mafia would know what will happen because Vivax had not claimed yet and until Wave started yelling consolidation there were at most 2 votes on someone. I think you are misreading the situation. | ||
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On February 28 2014 04:34 Balla24 wrote: Votecount Mocsta (1) - geript (2) - TheChyz (1) - Toadesstern (1) - JarJarDrinks (1) - gumshoe (1) - WaveofShadow (0) - suki (1) - Vivax (2) - WaveofShadow, Vivax is currently set to be lynched. Day 1 ends in . If any votes are missing or incorrect please let us know! Do you think this looks like there is some clear direction?? | ||
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Yeah but even marv thought they lost the game because of the lynch. | ||
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On February 28 2014 17:18 geript wrote: No but vote count doesn't always equal thread sentiment. That JJD vote looks really out of place and sticks out like a sore thumb to me. What do you mean? Both JJD andd gumshoe have a big case against each other at the time. | ||
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On February 28 2014 17:21 geript wrote: Let me get on my comp Rayn. Okay geript, let's drop it for about 5 days or so? Basically we are arguing if there is a scenario where Mocsta can be mafia or not. That is something that is not relevant until it becomes self-explanatory (when all the scummy people have flipped and the game does not end). Agreed? Let's talk about TheChyz. Do you think he can be mafia? | ||
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No way she is scum. | ||
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On February 28 2014 17:56 geript wrote: I'd be really surprised about that too because her posts were like really towny. But LittleTram=gumshoe right? You know where I'm going with this right? not really no? | ||
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On February 28 2014 17:59 geript wrote: No my point is more in gumshoe being right. Like ya, I could see wave being scum too but that's really more on his filter being way longer than mine. But no I'm referring to the "Tram is making sense and is therefore scum" heuristic. Yeah i can get that but are you referring to Ange or gumshoe possibly being scum with this? | ||
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On February 28 2014 18:02 geript wrote: No I'm talking about little tram from voice. Like it has to be him because he brought but the ban list discussion we had. Like let's dive gumshoe. yes tram = gumshoe. yes i know he is "too right in this game". That's why i said he is scary. | ||
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On February 28 2014 18:06 geript wrote: I'm saying we should still expect from Ange but gumshoe making sense on a few specific things, especially how dogmatic he was about the read on me, like we need to take another really serious look at tram. Like it hit me right after the flip and I brushed it off, but I remembered BH posting in scum QT in the game about how he and I should mix it up together but he'd stop short of calling me scum. It reminded me of Gumshoe's softball post toward suki. Yeah i know. Like it was so friggin odd when i called Mocsta mafia gumshoe got suddenly really mad at me (because of JJD?!??!) and yelled "fuck you rayn Mocsta is town and suki is scum and you are wrong and so bad!!!" read the conversation, it's so fucking odd. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=444078¤tpage=55#1093 | ||
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On February 28 2014 18:14 Vivax wrote: Still not finished reading, but a lot of points I disagree with. If Mocsta is scum too he doesn't have to be preferred to die over suki cause he could as well be a scum RB. And I'd rather lynch the GF who can just sit there and hope to be checked rather than a role that's able to actually do something. Yes, also Mocsta has far better chances imo to lead his team to victory than suki because he knows the players and knows what to do more likely than suki does just because of experience. But anyways this is not a discussion point that's relevant now imo. Can you look at JJD and Toad and tell me what do you see when you are ready? Also Cavalinho and Chyz too. | ||
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I think there are several people who play far better when they are considered "confirmed town". That includes me, Vivax, Holyflare and Wave. I have no idea about Ange and geript. I know i play far better when noone has any reasons to call me mafia and therefore distract me or make me angry. I know at least Vivax and Wave do get distracted the same way. That's why i don't wanna talk about them as mafia, i wanna work with them. I would love to "clear" Mocsta, but i don't want to. Just because he has been incredibly lazy this game and has said some pretty suspicious stuff. I don't want to call him mafia either, but instead give him some time to prove himself. Mocsta use it wisely and start saying wise stuff okay? | ||
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On February 28 2014 18:22 geript wrote: I'll look at it in the morning Rayn. I'm sweepy tired. His filter is interesting of what I've read. Either way, we have to promise not to lynch him tomorrow either way. Like I'd feel so awful for lynching him over JJD or Toad and gumshoe flipping town. Like idk if I could ever play a game with him again out of shame of lynching him for playing so amazingly as town. Obviously not. I just don't want to clear him for what he has done. | ||
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On February 28 2014 18:26 geript wrote: I gotta admit though, you still probly need ice for this one Rayn. I don't get offended by personal attacks. I have never seen gumshoe angry, never ever. Even when i YOLO'ed him 12 hours into the game without giving him chance to answer just because. That's why it's weird. | ||
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Now he is suddenly so good? | ||
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On February 28 2014 18:29 Vivax wrote: Well, on the last two first. I found Chyz townie for that comment on wanting to lynch me even if I were a townie. Like, scum knows I'm town and mostly feels like I'm hardly attackable since the claim so they would not put it out there that the claim means jack to them and they would lynch me even knowing I'm town. Overall the guy has said a few things that can come from newbie town, like lynching who is useless and not who is scum. The above conclusion is based on the premise that scum is afraid to piss off/draw attention from townies that they can't get lynched anyway. Cavalinho would need massive balls to do what he did as scum and his post flip reaction was similar to mine, so I went with town for that moment. But I still gotta read his filter with my scumhunting goggles on. About JarJar I can say however that if he's scum he had massive balls too since gumshoe had been riding on the argument that he's scum for townreading suki all day long. And since suki was a very possible lynch he should have gotten cold feet at some point and reacted to gumshoe's pressure in a way that would be evident for somebody knowing her alignment. On Chyz that is a really good point actually. Dunno if i agree about Cavalinho. Do you mean it takes balls to call himself "right" after being on "wrong" lynch? Or what? Also JJD, why would it take balls? I mean after the argument is on, he can't just go "okay okay, suki is in fact scummy" if he is scum and already decided to not call suki mafia. | ||
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just lol | ||
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On February 28 2014 11:08 geript wrote: The bad news for me is that suki's dig at Toad makes it more likely that he's town. That makes me really sad. | ||
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On February 28 2014 20:25 Vivax wrote: Oh and of course I was a possible counterpush to suki's lynch until I claimed. Well tbh your play before and after the claim is like day and night. heh.-- | ||
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On February 28 2014 21:05 Vivax wrote: Also the association thingy he mentions at last is mega shitty. In his association, JarJar is scum when suki flips town and he's scum when she flips scum. So gumshoe basically puts himself in a situation where he calls one mafia and one townie scum and there is no way back? I am not sure if this makes sense from scum pov. | ||
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I highly doubt gumshoe is mafia tbh.. It just does not fit. | ||
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On February 28 2014 21:20 Vivax wrote: I don't get this. He didn't want to lynch suki (first) before my claim, JarJar posts that other association thingy, gumshoe doesn't jump on it. He only jumps on it after my claim to use it as his justification for voting suki. It would have been more realistic if he said that he's voting suki cause he can't lynch me or JarJar, not use that shoddy reasoning for it. I know, but that would also look much better on him and i am pretty sure gumshoe would know that as mafia. I just can't figure out his mindset if he is scum. Like he goes into the game hard defending a townie pretty much everyone found at least somewhat suspicious, then he busses his godfather and yells me about these two things, then he makes a case on another townie that is most likely not gonna get lynched anyways because he does not even really push the case, then he creates the association between that townie and his godfather which kinda ensures he must bus even if suki survives D1 lynch. And then he kills his godfather. It just does not make sense to me. | ||
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