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On February 26 2014 12:04 TheChyz wrote:
Mocsta what is your reason for voting gumshoe? Surely not just "marketing crap" post you made. You don't really explain it much. Guess I was supportive of Gumshoe originally because he gave me confidence at a time I felt I was against everyone active (i.e. Wave + Suki)
But in hindsight having read his reasoning for calling me town, its very generic but is written as fact.
Similar to how Gumshoe treated my scum claim in GSL (written very factually).
Then when reading stuff like the "marketing crap" thats indicative of the type of fluff I took issue with Suki in the first place.
The main difference was, Suki could be trolling etc as the post had no direct impact on the game.
Whereas gumshoe used the fluff to substantiate a push onto a read.
So yes, it is heavily related to the "marketing crap".
Regarding the martyr, I dont take value in that. These days, ppl can pull those cards as they please. Having played scum with Gumshoe recently, I know he is self-aware of his meta, so its not out of question that he could play the card as town or scum.
As town, if anything I think hes playing the card prematurely. But thats a personal opinion, and not something I would validate towards a read.
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United Kingdom30775 Posts
On February 26 2014 12:09 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 11:52 Holyflare wrote:So tram, if you can post try hard cases as either alignment, what significant reasoning do we have to believe that you are town this game? Why even post the caveat that you can do that as scum as well? Also or me making a good one because I felt I had to ( it's not that difficult to make anyone look scummy if you set your mind to it) and getting someone mislynched.
what does that mean??? Surely if you made a good one it would be on a scum...? Nothing, honestly I'm just writing down my thoughts, it's not for me to decide if I look townie or not : P ask yourself why I'm saying whatever I say, and if what I'm saying is hurting town. Then decide for yourself what I am, all I'm going to do is respond honestly and write try hard cases as they occur to me, I'm not gonna be making up bullshit to save myself if that's what you expect of me.
Just find scum, don't defend! Questions can come later.
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On February 26 2014 12:09 TheChyz wrote:
Also, why is my case better now (@Mocsta). Before you told me how "fallacious" it was. Why does it change now?
It still is fallacious.
But its written with the type of bias I imagine town would be more likely to admit in the thread.
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I'm heading to bed. Mocsta is still my #1, I don't like TheChyz dodging my question and just sort of actively lurking.
I'll reread the thread in the morning and post more in depth reads then.
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On February 26 2014 12:08 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 12:01 Mocsta wrote:On February 26 2014 11:56 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 26 2014 11:52 Holyflare wrote:So tram, if you can post try hard cases as either alignment, what significant reasoning do we have to believe that you are town this game? Why even post the caveat that you can do that as scum as well? Also or me making a good one because I felt I had to ( it's not that difficult to make anyone look scummy if you set your mind to it) and getting someone mislynched.
what does that mean??? Surely if you made a good one it would be on a scum...? That's a pretty martyr-y post. I dunno I'm starting to lean more towards sloppy townplay on gumshoe right now (and I'm also noting the involvement of JJD and Mocsta pushing gumshoe now) but I want to go look at his recent scumgame right now. HF if you had to make a call right now one way or the other, red or green? U know as scum, when I want to get ppl off a scum buddy. I vote jump on them scummily. Case in point: PYP with Johnnywup In this game, I gave a sound reason for gumshoe. Further, I agree completely after a re-read that his post for calling me town was opportunistic and lacking in detail. Ironically I now prefer Chz position for calling me town. You know, as scum my agenda is to infiltrate town. Thats my goal every game as scum. As town, I dont have that care. Thats how you read me. The fact that half this game think I am scum, in indicative of me pushing the buttons I DONT as scum. My 6 scum games out of 8, should be indicative of this enough to be gospel. I don't understand, what is the reason for this post? If we should all know your scum meta why would you need to point it out and describe it all to us? Isn't the fact that you "know" your meta a good enough reason to throw your meta out of the window now? This post just leads to wifom and I find it hard to see where your aligns with you posting these defensive meta posts because the fact that you "needed" to post that infers that you do actually care what other people are thinking about you. If anything this is a more "infiltration" post because you're pointing out why you must be town, just like you tried to point it out with the JJD post earlier. Me no likey you
##Vote Mocsta LOL
if this is your town play, no wonder you only won the champsionship whilst scum.
Your trying too hard to find connections that arent true HF.
When you stop looking at keywords, and start considering the whole parapgrah, you will realise, that to infiltrate as per my mantra, would mean outright as scum I wouldnt make a post like that.
Of course im aware of my meta, who isnt. I might adjust my game as in how I post etc to satisfy other players.. but the core intent remains the same.
You should know this.... mr champion.
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I see Rayn isn't going to address me.
That's real good because if he does I think I know what he's getting at and I will absolutely destroy his shit.
@Mocsta, reading through GSL I think I do have to drop the martyr tell. And bad association tell inc., but I'm pretty sure at this point it's impossible for both Mocsta and gumshoe to be scum.
@Gumshoe, what Holyflare said. Want to read some usefulness from you at some point.
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I really dont get the issues here.
A lot of people are saying im playing suspcious, but noone has outlined what the problem is? (in my opinion)
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United Kingdom30775 Posts
Yeh, I'm quite happy where my vote is.
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On February 26 2014 12:16 Holyflare wrote:
Yeh, I'm quite happy where my vote is.
So, you are happy that your scum read has posted so brazenly that within a span of 2hrs you have identified multiple "contradictions".
Congratulations HF, with scum hunting like this, the game is over before it started.
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On February 26 2014 12:03 WaveofShadow wrote:Oh and by martyr-y post I meant gumshoe's, if that wasn't clear. The over-defensive 'woe is me I'ma get mislynched' I find is usually more likely to come from town (or scum jaybrundage), but yeah, gonna go read a scumgame. Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 12:00 gumshoe wrote:
As for accusations regarding meta, my post on Suki talked about how I felt the post wasn't made a long time in Advance ( because it was careless) but felt crafted, she had to have thought about the Harry potter thing at least , it's a somewhat complicated thought, not really a spur of the moment one . I then supplemented the read with meta.
Same with toad, his serius change in tone felt abrupt, it felt odd, especially after a very serious scum game, so I tried to think of a motivation for it. I always combine and justify my reads with a combination of substance and meta, the substance provides actus reus , the meta providing men's reus. I fail to see your issue, what's more in past games we've played, you were aware of my lurker meta yet never treated me as hostilely as this. Have I pissed you off somehow? Because you came out of the gates swinging at me ( a target so easy that if I'm not being attacked I'm probably scum) and you haven't stopped, using every bit I post to reinforce your baseless confirmation bias. Whoa, this shoe has claws. Where do you get confirmation bias from anything I've said? And my 'lurker attack' of you has nothing to do with me coming up with a scumread on you at first that is now threatening to devolve. Please stop talking about how easy of a mislynch you are, because you're just going to make it a self-fulfilling prophecy. And Rayn, as I said before, you don't have marv to back you up here with baseless shit so you're gonna have to try harder than that if you want me to swing this time around.
I will talk about how easy a mislynch I am all day everyday, so I can bitch about it later on when I get mislynched XD I see no reason to differentiate myself between games, being consistent overall makes me harder to read, which benefits my overall play,
Also last nail bite, I don't like how you came into the game threatening me over my activity and then proceeded to berate me for said play, honestly I feel like you had me as a fixed target no matter what I'd do, and although you claimed to want responses from me you were eager to start pushing me in my brief absence, so that when I did return I would be arguing from lower ground. Very particular of you / : the more I think about it the more I feel like a bump on the agenda.
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On February 26 2014 12:11 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 12:09 gumshoe wrote:On February 26 2014 11:52 Holyflare wrote:So tram, if you can post try hard cases as either alignment, what significant reasoning do we have to believe that you are town this game? Why even post the caveat that you can do that as scum as well? Also or me making a good one because I felt I had to ( it's not that difficult to make anyone look scummy if you set your mind to it) and getting someone mislynched.
what does that mean??? Surely if you made a good one it would be on a scum...? Nothing, honestly I'm just writing down my thoughts, it's not for me to decide if I look townie or not : P ask yourself why I'm saying whatever I say, and if what I'm saying is hurting town. Then decide for yourself what I am, all I'm going to do is respond honestly and write try hard cases as they occur to me, I'm not gonna be making up bullshit to save myself if that's what you expect of me. Just find scum, don't defend! Questions can come later.
I'm reading you bastards, not posting unless I have something XD
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Votecount
gumshoe (2) - WaveofShadow, Mocsta
Mocsta (2) - suki, Holyflare
Toadesstern (1) - Geript
geript (1) - Toadesstern
WaveofShadow (1) - raynpelikoneet
suki (0) - WaveofShadow
Not Voting - gumshoe, Ange777, Cavalinho, JarJarDrinks, TheChyz, Vivax
gumshoe is currently set to be lynched. Day 1 ends in .
If any votes are missing or incorrect please let us know!
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United Kingdom30775 Posts
Oh yeh, wave that reminded me:
On February 26 2014 12:00 Holyflare wrote:
wave, why were you keen to hear responses about posts that came from mocsta etc but you didn't hesitate to put a vote on gumshoe before he had the chance to respond to anything?
what gives?
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gumbo,
i voted ya too.
I know my accusations are not directly said to you, but, any reason you not commenting on those?
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On February 26 2014 12:21 Holyflare wrote:Oh yeh, wave that reminded me: Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 12:00 Holyflare wrote:
wave, why were you keen to hear responses about posts that came from mocsta etc but you didn't hesitate to put a vote on gumshoe before he had the chance to respond to anything? what gives?
Early D1.
No reason to hesitate.
I feel marginally better about gumshoe though less good than I did before reading his scumgame.
It is pretty clear that gumshoe is very aware of his meta and his above post is right; it's not going to make him easy to read.
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##unvote
##vote jarjardrinks
I feel better about this. Rayn explain why.
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Hey geript I'm not a moron you know. My memory lasts more than a few minutes. Would you mind explain why rayn and toad can't be scum together. (for the third time...)
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United Kingdom30775 Posts
On February 26 2014 12:18 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 12:16 Holyflare wrote:
Yeh, I'm quite happy where my vote is. So, you are happy that your scum read has posted so brazenly that within a span of 2hrs you have identified multiple "contradictions". Congratulations HF, with scum hunting like this, the game is over before it started.
Ok, I'll humour you. Explain to me why you get all on wave for posting his gumshoe policy meaningless post and telling him how if he's town he isn't being conducive to finding gumshoe's alignment
On February 26 2014 10:19 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On thi 26 2014 10:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
Gumshoe just tell me now.
Am I going to have to policy lynch you for lurking this game? If u r town I don't like at all what our doing. Which is. Crating an atmosphere of intimidation If u think otherwise, surely you can admit that the above is not conducive to gleaning the alignment of gumshoe in the slightest Gumshoe post was very reasonable and called me town for the right reasons. Did u read a thing he wrote?
but then the past page and a half of your filter is all self-meta posts and chastising me for having a scum read on you (peppered slightly with gumshoe/suki stuff)? What kind of environment are you trying to create and if it's a townies best interest to glean information from others sensible posts why are you berating me instead of questioning why I have those reads?
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On February 26 2014 10:22 WaveofShadow wrote:
Yes gumshoe's post was reasonable, but also easy. It doesn't say a thing to me about yours or his alignment.
I was curious as to whether or not he'd actually be playing this game as I'm used to him either playing his heart out, or lurking like crazy.
Now this is exactly what gumshoe does. His scumplay is actually far better than his townplay because he realizes what town wants to hear and contributes towards that. As town he makes absolutely awful posts (sorry gumshoe ^^) that might not say anything at all or have one thought which might be "i don't know what X is doing" and there are 1000 words around it that explain his thoguht process and where he found that information that was in the end useless. He literally posts exactly what is in his mind at that time and it ends up in terrible posts that are like the easiest thing ever to attack.
Now the green part in the quote makes me 100% sure WaveofShadow knows this. I also went to check on last couple of games where i remember both of gumshoe and Wave being town and gumshoe making his typical posts:
Quiet game mini mafia: EOD1, we have outed mafia. gumshoe comes in 20min before the deadline, ignores the outed mafia and makes a hugeass case on Wave. Wave does not even consider gumshoe being mafia, in fact based on his N1 posting he says the opposite.
TL Mafia LXIV: gumshoe makes terrible posts on D1 (like "vote me for mayor because i am so bad") and says nothing all D1. Wave never talks about gumshoe on D1, at all.
Now both of these games in addition to my first quote from Wave support my argument that Wave knows gumshoe's meta pretty well.
However, in this game, here is Wave's reasoning for voting for gumshoe:
In this post gumshoe doesn't offer the option that doesn't fit his idea of what suki is doing. (For example, she is neither AND is town.)
Here is the post in question:
On February 26 2014 10:08 gumshoe wrote:
Mocsta seems into it this game, overall just sharper off the bat then when I was scum together with him just a few days ago. Hes been rolling red alot lately and thats been frustrating him, but I hear none of that agitation in his posts so far. Preliminary read of course, but I feel good about his accusation not coming from a place of deceit. So now I'm left wondering, is he right about Suki? Suki's post doesn't quite feel like it was thought out days in advance, (it's a fairly sloppy one and obviously susceptible to critique) but it does feel crafted, which gives me the sense that she read her pm an hour ago and started over thinking her opening. The post itself is also one that calls back to old games, an attempt at inducing nostalgia. How someones posting makes us feel can easily influence our perception of them and the harry potter claim might be aiming for that.
If Suki isn't scum she's either a) nervous, or b) baiting. Suki, which explanation do you prefer?
See, a big fucking thought process that ends in somewhat bad conclusion (that really says nothing). Now Wave's reasoning for calling this conclusion scummy is really terrible. First of all there is nothing scummy to not think about a conclusion you didn't think of because... YOU DIDN'T THINK OF IT! Second of all this is all characteristic to gumshoe's townplay, which Wave very well knows taking account he correctly described gumshoe's town!meta earlier on.
This case on gumshoe is horrible and is not from a townie
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On February 26 2014 12:10 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 12:04 TheChyz wrote:
Mocsta what is your reason for voting gumshoe? Surely not just "marketing crap" post you made. You don't really explain it much. Guess I was supportive of Gumshoe originally because he gave me confidence at a time I felt I was against everyone active (i.e. Wave + Suki) But in hindsight having read his reasoning for calling me town, its very generic but is written as fact. Similar to how Gumshoe treated my scum claim in GSL (written very factually). Then when reading stuff like the "marketing crap" thats indicative of the type of fluff I took issue with Suki in the first place. The main difference was, Suki could be trolling etc as the post had no direct impact on the game. Whereas gumshoe used the fluff to substantiate a push onto a read. So yes, it is heavily related to the "marketing crap". Regarding the martyr, I dont take value in that. These days, ppl can pull those cards as they please. Having played scum with Gumshoe recently, I know he is self-aware of his meta, so its not out of question that he could play the card as town or scum. As town, if anything I think hes playing the card prematurely. But thats a personal opinion, and not something I would validate towards a read.
You misunderstand, my read of you is not similar to the gsl game, it is a product of the gsl game, I feel I have a good grip on your state of mind after it, the way your playing to figure things out and pressure but at the same time adjust your reads, all while doing so in a reasonable manner, is totally opposite from your play in gsl. I cannot reconcile this Mocsta with the one who scum claimed in thread three times while under no pressure whatsoever, if you consider that a "matter of fact read" then what can I say / : I'm pretty much 100 percent sure your town this game, but you might surprise me( I will turn on anyone if they set my imagination on fire) as things stand, I would not be capable of voting for you today.
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EPT
