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On February 20 2014 09:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2014 09:42 Palmar wrote:On February 20 2014 09:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
When marv comes in, he'll explain my posts to everyone. Trust me, he has do to that, even as mafia. Then we lynch mafia. How about you explain your idea yourself? I mean I posted the two options I saw, but you can probably elaborate better than I on your intentions. Now this is the point. I already did. Why are you not reading?
I am reading, but it doesn't explain why you think it's relevant. You explains what you hope to achieve, but not why you think it's a good idea.
On February 20 2014 09:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:
It puts pressure on people who are considered lynch targets. And yes, if you are not pushing a lynch or have a stance on the current lynch targets you should vote for yourself then.
I would assume by default, any vote with a case/reasoning backing it would pressure a lynch target, no matter where some random votes have been left behind. In fact, I haven't even voted you, yet I'm pretty sure you feel much more pressure from me than Toad does, who currently has my vote on him.
So why do you think we need the plan? Do you simply disagree with me in the notion that the random votes are completely pointless?
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On February 20 2014 09:49 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2014 09:46 Palmar wrote:On February 20 2014 09:43 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote:On February 20 2014 09:39 Palmar wrote:
The important part here is why rayn created the plan. If he's town I see two options, he either thought it was a good controversial move to start discussion, or he actually believes idle shitvotes randomly assigned by the host actually mean something.
If he's scum, it's a fantastic way of saying things without actually contributing anything to the game. I also don't know why his first post didn't simply lay out his plan, but instead left it up to guesswork by the rest of us. But I don't know if that says anything about his alignment. So basically he could be town or scum for it and all you've done is waffle things that have either already been posted or could be extrapolated within a second. I haven't actually waffled, I simply haven't made a decision. You have pointed out something that had already been pointed out and didn't conclude anything alignment indicative from it, nor did you attempt to inquire further into Rayn until I and Rayn called you out on it. Show nested quote +On February 20 2014 09:43 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote:On February 20 2014 09:40 Palmar wrote:On February 20 2014 09:39 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote:On February 20 2014 09:35 Palmar wrote:
I agree with what prplhz is saying, and to the extend that I don't understand why people care where votes are parked. It's completely irrelevant, there is no pressure in a vote that isn't being actively pushed as a lynch target. No one cares. I have no idea why rayn seems to think we need a plan to address that non-problem. It's an extremely bad opening discussion point and serves no purpose. Do you think Rayn is scum for it? You're saying it's pointless and you have no idea why he's talking about it, yet you continue to talk about it without asking any questions or having any follow up in your post. Everything you've said has already been said too. What is this post meant to accomplish? I don't know if he's scum because of it. We have plenty of time to figure it out. I was basically explaining where I stand. But your post said nothing prplhz hasn't already said. You've given your thoughts on this and your conclusion was that it's a null tell, or you haven't followed up on it with any questions geared towards Rayn. Why did you feel the need to address this from all the things in the thread when you both consider it useless and don't come to a conclusion from it? I don't think you can reach a conclusion from it. On it's own it's not enough to say he's scum. That doesn't mean I'm going to shy away from talking about it. Also I don't think what we're discussing now is useless. I think the plan itself was useless, but discussing the thought process that made rayn come up with the plan is extremely useful.
Do you think it makes him more likely to be scum, then? I'm not getting anything out of this discourse other than a scumread on you.[/QUOTE]
Why are you trying to pressure me into making a call? I have plenty of time to decide whether or not rayn is scum...
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On February 20 2014 09:53 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote:
Why am I pressuring a scumread? Gee, I wonder.
Is that a serious question?
It is an entirely serious question.
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On February 20 2014 09:58 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote:
I saw no point in your initial comments, and with a lack of a follow up to continue on them I saw them as fluff as they added nothing new to the table.
Even rayn would tell you (and notice how he responded specifically to me) that it matters where people stand. I wanted to say I agreed with prplhz on his point about rayn's plan. That's about it.
On February 20 2014 09:58 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote:You have given potential scenarios rather than ask Rayn to explain himself, so if your intention was to read him, it seems like a horrendous way of approaching it.
On February 20 2014 09:42 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2014 09:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
When marv comes in, he'll explain my posts to everyone. Trust me, he has do to that, even as mafia. Then we lynch mafia. How about you explain your idea yourself? I mean I posted the two options I saw, but you can probably elaborate better than I on your intentions.
Seems to me I did exactly what you're accusing me of not having done.
On February 20 2014 09:58 CuteFluffyPuppy wrote:Therefore since you already have a read I'd like to hear it so that it may make my read on you more accurate. I'm more interested in hearing thoughts from you rather than Rayn right now.
I don't. I don't think I have nearly enough information to make a call, hence why I'm baffled why you're trying to force me to make a decision, it makes no sense for me to throw out a random conclusion when I haven't reached one.
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Like I don't mind you asking questions, but please believe my answers. If I say I don't know if it makes rayn scum, then that probably means I don't know if it makes rayn scum.
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On February 20 2014 10:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2014 10:04 Palmar wrote:
Like I don't mind you asking questions, but please believe my answers. If I say I don't know if it makes rayn scum, then that probably means I don't know if it makes rayn scum. How can you agree with prplhz's vote if you don't think i am necessarily scum?
I said I had no problem with the vote. I don't think it makes prplhz any more likely to be scum. That doesn't mean I have reached the same conclusion.
Now if you go all super-towny and start raping mafia left and right the rest of the day and prplhz's vote stays on you, then we have a problem, but at the moment I have no problem with the vote.
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On February 20 2014 10:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
My problem is that there are now at least 4 people who have no interest in thinking of my motives behind my posts. I'll make a clarification after marv posts anyways, but there is something i want out of marv first. I'll explain that too after.
I'm asking exactly for your motives. But for some reason you don't seem to want to tell me?
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As far as I could read, rayn didn't back off his plan when he realized the votes didn't work the way he thought. That's the assumption I've been working under.
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@Smurf can you please stop breaking posts, it's really annoying to reply to you when you constantly do.
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On February 20 2014 10:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2014 10:11 Palmar wrote:On February 20 2014 10:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
My problem is that there are now at least 4 people who have no interest in thinking of my motives behind my posts. I'll make a clarification after marv posts anyways, but there is something i want out of marv first. I'll explain that too after. I'm asking exactly for your motives. But for some reason you don't seem to want to tell me? You are supposed to make educated guesses about my motives and post your conclusions about them. Apparently you don't understand them. That's technically fine. What's not fine is you blindly soft +1 prplhz and Toad while saying you don't understand what's going on.
I did already make two educated guesses that assume you're town, which of course are the only ones you'd ever confirm as either alignment.
You just ignored me.
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On February 20 2014 10:18 marvellosity wrote:
The point of that being that Palmar will talk about things like you've been constantly attacking him for talking about things. And it doesn't mean very much. That's just how he talks about stuff.
I wasn't aware I talked about stuff in a particular way
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@rayn could you at least say I'm wrong/right? Marv made the same-ish guess as me.
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On February 20 2014 10:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So here we go (marv i would have expected a bit more from you, i am sad):
There are three possibilities about my motives and here they are:
1) I am town and this is my thought process; I misunderstood the setup as i have already explained and thought the votes from previous days are added to the current days votes. That's why i made my plan in the first place. Now this would have been the most pro-town plan because i would have later on brought up the fact that we should treat this as a majority lynch and at the end of the day people who are not in the majority wagon put their votes on themselves. In that way we would have eliminated any cons for the town in setup we possibly can, which is pretty much everything other than the randomness which we can't eliminate.
However, that was not the case. Now, i still stand behind my "if you "unvote", vote yourself" plan because of this. If we do not push this policy it leads to possibly stupid and irrelevant questions like "you don't think this dude is scum anymore, why is your vote still on him?". We don't want that because we benefit from clarity and it's beneficial we know exactly WHEN and WHY people drop their scumreads and where they head next. If they don't have next target they should inform that by voting for themselves. This prevents mafia from misrepresenting people because you can always back up your thoughts with your actions in thread (most importantly voting). Having no possibility to unvote is pro-mafia, if you't agree with that you need to explain me why. It's never irrelevant where your vote is at.
I don't mind these questions. Helps me filter the people that are dumb and think it matters and the people I should be listening to.
I don't agree, as I already explained. I think it can be very irrelevant where my vote is. I usually make it very, very clear when I decide someone is scum.
On February 20 2014 10:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why did you not try to see what i was/am trying to do and how that would make me whatever alignment. What you did is you took some posts from me and painted them scummy without no thinking behind it. I want to know why.
I did exactly this, but it didn't help when you decided to make some ridiculous "trap play" I guess and thus didn't want to answer the obvious question I raised.
On February 20 2014 10:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If what i was doing was (1), then i am town.
If what i was doing is (2), you can't tell my alignment.
If what i was doing is (3), then you are saying i am some random noob which this post already proves i am not because i would have came up with a decent explanation on the fly.
So again, why am i mafia? Especially prplhz and Toad?
You left out (4) You thought this would be a well-received plan by town and allowed you an easy "pro-town" contribution, which would make you scum. I even explained as much as a possibility.
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On February 20 2014 10:32 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2014 10:30 Toadesstern wrote:On February 20 2014 10:20 marvellosity wrote:
Let's go with this:
##unvote
##Vote: Toadesstern
His +1 on prplhz's vote is super-weak. Why is Toad agreeing with prplhz that rayn is looking for a way not to take stands? Toad is passingly familiar enough with rayn to know that's not how rayn operates.
Naughty toad. I voted him because I like voting rayn after the last game we had together, just look at the post I quoted while voting him. I think that was the first game we had together so no I don't really know how he plays considering that I ragequited because of him on d2. At least I don't recall any other game. Do you honestly think I'm going after him in all seriousness right now instead of just taking sidestabs at him for last game? After posts like these: On February 20 2014 09:43 Toadesstern wrote:On February 20 2014 09:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:On February 20 2014 09:38 Toadesstern wrote:On February 20 2014 09:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:On February 20 2014 09:35 Palmar wrote:
I agree with what prplhz is saying, and to the extend that I don't understand why people care where votes are parked. It's completely irrelevant, there is no pressure in a vote that isn't being actively pushed as a lynch target. No one cares. I have no idea why rayn seems to think we need a plan to address that non-problem. It's an extremely bad opening discussion point and serves no purpose. Do you agree with prplhz's vote on me? Actually this goes to everyone. If you read my posts, you'll find that I actually said the exact same thing and that I as well have my vote on you. So yes. So why is your vote not on me? On February 20 2014 08:57 Toadesstern wrote:On February 20 2014 08:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:The quoted below is in addition to votes cast on D1 correct?On day 1 each player will be randomly assigned a vote on someone else. No one will have more than 3 votes on them to begin with.
##vote: raynpelikoneetI have a plan and i am not sure if this is the best plan because i have not thought it through from every angle yet but does anyone know what i am doing? sounds good to me, I like this ##vote: raynpelikoneet I didn't feel the need to vote myself and revote you for a more dramatic expression of my desire to get you lynched. ? I had the same idea as prplhz had and said I can't think of a reason why a town would want to proppose this and I'd still like to see his reasoning for all this. you can't say 1) "I'm not going after him seriously" and 2) "but I need to hear from him about this" 1) is backing out of it and yet you're pushing it with 2) my vote stands while I go to bed
This is a very good point.
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On February 20 2014 10:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Palmar the problem is not that if you make it clear or not. It's if other people think you are being clear or not which is not always so easily said. You know how this shit works, scum misrepresent everything people do because that's how you lynch townies. Why not reduce the possible amount of misrepresentations by an easy policy that does no harm in any case?
Because attempts at misrepresentation are excellent way of catching scum? I'm cocky enough to think I'll see through those.
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On February 20 2014 10:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Toadesstern do you think being able to unvote in general is pro-town or pro-mafia?
oh can i? ??
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but I know the answer! !!!
such excited
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ok it doesn't matter at all and has no impact on the game
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On February 20 2014 11:00 suki wrote:Show nested quote +rayn said:
We don't want that because we benefit from clarity and it's beneficial we know exactly WHEN and WHY people drop their scumreads and where they head next. If they don't have next target they should inform that by voting for themselves. This prevents mafia from misrepresenting people because you can always back up your thoughts with your actions in thread (most importantly voting). Having no possibility to unvote is pro-mafia, if you't agree with that you need to explain me why. It's never irrelevant where your vote is at. Here's how I see it. Because you're forced to vote someone, you can't unvote and remain without an opinion (well, except with this stupid plan). This is pro-town. If someone voted Koshi and said, 'I don't think Koshi is scum anymore' but kept his vote on Koshi, then pressuring that person to take a stance on someone else IS pro-town because they can't just unvote and say 'I dont know I'm thinking'. It forces accountability, and mafia hate being accountable for their actions. This outweighs scum possibly misrepresenting someone because they didn't take off their vote.
On February 20 2014 11:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
suki is probably mafia.
I read this exchange. I think suki is wrong and bad but I don't think this post makes him mafia.
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I'm catching up btw, will post as I run into things I find interesting.
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EPT
