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On February 13 2014 07:21 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 07:19 Koshi wrote:On February 13 2014 07:13 Holyflare wrote:On February 13 2014 07:05 marvellosity wrote:On February 13 2014 07:03 Holyflare wrote:
What sense is there to keep both marv and rayn in the game when they can both read me well and kill off palmar who had a town read on me? x_x?????? wat? I tell everyone to get on palmar on the nominations because: a) If there was mafia on the wagon based on thread posting he would be most likely scum (although crazy unlikely based on who else was nominated) b) Palmar stated he can't play as well past day 1 as you and rayn c) You and rayn can read me best and I'm pretty sure we'd win (me and rayn's reads were pretty much identical) by keeping you in the game @Risen, there is no "town slip", I want to win the game. If you are going to discuss what happened yesterday I wont be able to move my vote off you. You mean nothing scummy happened yesterday? I just explained how both grack and va have expressed their interest to lynch me based on nothing (in the case of grack) and posts that would implicate more than just me (in the case of VA) yet your first post after that was to vote me instead of discussing it? Grack also lynched off rayn who had a scum read on him because: Show nested quote +On February 11 2014 11:36 Grackaroni wrote:
##Vote: Rayn
Sorry Palmar is the more entertaining player.
It seems so.
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But in all fairness. I have 0 interests in lynching you.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
No. He REALLY didn't flip flop.
On February 12 2014 01:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Maybe i need to re-think about my Grack read. As soon as i call him town and Palmar is unsure he is wanting to lynch Palmar over me for some arbitary reasoning.
On February 12 2014 07:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 07:19 Holyflare wrote:On February 12 2014 07:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am not sure what you are trying to do Holyflare. Are you trying to look better or find mafia? well i'll tell you names now; grack/wos/geript/va expect walls of text with all their names on it soon so if i've found mafia (i'm pretty sure i have) then what else can i be doing in my downtime from writing the cases other than reasoning out this lynch that's happening now? It doesn't really matter who we lynch now because it's irrelevant because we are all town. The discussion about who has 1% chance or who has 0% chance of flipping scum is fucking retarded. It's like having 3 blue claims in a game where there can be 3 blues and all you can talk about is who is fakeclaiming if someone is. lol. But yeah, those 4 stand out for me the most too. Drop in Oats if Vayne is somehow town (i think he could be, if he is just being dumb and refuses to do shit like he unfortunately does as town because he is just dumb).
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And Palmar does say some pretty funny stuff.
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lol it's in the first sentence HF. "Maybe I need to re-think about my grack read."
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Are you misconstruing what he is saying? He has you as scum. You are going to vote him. He says you are town, you want to switch to Palmar.
Coincedences?
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And what he was arguing was that I was trying to use Risen's craziness as justification to lynch off Palmar because Rayn had been town reading me.
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On February 13 2014 07:26 Grackaroni wrote:
lol it's in the first sentence HF. "Maybe I need to re-think about my grack read."
town to scum. kk. you die.
##unvote
##vote: Grack
Any of those 4 rayn mentioned is ok with me. Sleep in 60 mins or so.
WoS/Grack/Geript/VA
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You didn't even read these quotes before you posted all of this.
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Koshi I actually like you. But you are really rather stupid.
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On February 13 2014 07:28 Grackaroni wrote:
Koshi I actually like you. But you are really rather stupid.
DIEEEEEE!
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On February 13 2014 04:16 WaveofShadow wrote:
Reading his case now, I'm still honestly not sure why we're not lynching Keirathi. One post after replacing somebody who didn't look particularly good shouldn't be enough even IF people aren't lynching him because 'give him a chance' or some shit.
He uses the word 'contrived' to talk about VE but that perfectly describes the case in general.
It could be bias because I have a townread on VE but his describing the thought of Cora's lynch being 'worrying' is exactly what I would have done were I around (yes I know marv but we've been over this) and I probably would consider that exactly as VE did. I'm not sure why his describing it as such even makes him scum.
What? My point wasn't that VE calling the lynch "worrying" was somehow scummy. It wasn't.
The scummy part was coming back into the thread later being all "I shat on the Cora lynch and no one listened to me, wah wah".
On February 13 2014 04:16 WaveofShadow wrote:
Another thing I thought about was somebody posted recently (in a postgame or something somewhere? I don't remember) that Keirathi is supposedly some sort of meta master. Where's the meta in this case on VE? (Am I wrong wiht thsi point?)
I was in the process of re-reading VE's filter from NMME1 since I had just played with VE less than a month ago, but it was already after 2am and I didn't have time to keep reading/writing.
So why did I go after VE instead of the other random people in this game? I expect more from VE than I do other people because I've played with him multiple times and I know that he's capable of having reasonable arguments rather than boo-hoo'ing after the fact that he wanted VA lynched and that Cora was town but no one would listen to him. He didn't care about either one of them when it was important.
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On February 12 2014 18:01 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 17:23 Keirathi wrote:@yamato: Meh. You were all about getting the credit for the lynch, then On February 10 2014 09:34 yamato77 wrote:On February 10 2014 09:31 marvellosity wrote:
alright yam, you get all the credit. Whatever, it's his own damn fault he got lynched. and basically told everyone to fuck off. How the fuck is that a townie mindset? I'm not going to go back to verify what you're claiming is true here Keirath, but I don't see how that is mafia mindset either. Assuming your premise is true, that yamato initially wanted credit for the lynch, and then blamed cora, why would mafia do that? Mafia already knows there is no credit to be taken from the lynch, right? So why would scumyamato want credit.
Because yamato has more ego than brains. And because you're here making this argument for him.
But really, my point was about his response after him trying to take the credit.
Rational townie response: "Bah, I really thought he was town. I fucked up."
Damage control scum response: "Fuck him he didn't even try. He deserved to get lynched."
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Actually, that reminds me of something else from my extensive filter diving on VE last night:
On February 11 2014 03:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
Palmar looks fucking terrible for his stance on Cora. Whether he's familiar with Cora or not, the circumstances surrounding the Cora lynch should have made it blatantly obvious that Cora was town, and to justify still being on him, he's got this whole "He's an asshole, would lynch regardless of alignment" thing going on. Marv is reliant on meta, and so the lack of rage from Cora holds water for him...Palmar has no such excuse to be on Cora.
Which is basically exactly what yamato said too. But he only called out Palmar for it, not yamato. What gives, VE?
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EBWOP: Also, while Palmar and yam had basically the same attitude post-Cora lynch, there are plenty of other redeeming qualities in Palmar's filter. Not so much with yam.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Grackaroni
Grack is odd, he has shown a great deal of disinterest this game and that set off alarms because I have played with him a few times and the time that this occured was in LXIII when we were scum together. So, I decided to see if this disinterest had a coherent reasoning behind it or whether or not it was random bs scummy wifom, hence the questions I was asking him earlier. I did not like his responses at all and so here we are. The scum case.
He initially pressured Corazon, the person who ultimately ended up being the main lynch wagon and town here:
+ Show Spoiler +On February 09 2014 11:46 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2014 07:57 Corazon wrote:
Yeah I really don't feel like defending myself. I'm just gonna wait for Yamato to reply to my message.
Btw, you guys should look into Palmar's vote of Geript. Wouldn't it make a lot of sense for scum to try and rile up Geript for no reason? Show nested quote +On February 09 2014 10:58 Corazon wrote:On February 09 2014 10:47 marvellosity wrote:
Maybe if Palmar does non-geript or better-geript things and rayn tells me where to look, we can get a good lynch. We could always lynch Palmar for going after Geript, because attacking Geript is a pretty easy thing to do as scum. Cora do you want to vote Palmar? On February 09 2014 11:51 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2014 11:49 Corazon wrote:On February 09 2014 11:46 Grackaroni wrote:On February 09 2014 07:57 Corazon wrote:
Yeah I really don't feel like defending myself. I'm just gonna wait for Yamato to reply to my message.
Btw, you guys should look into Palmar's vote of Geript. Wouldn't it make a lot of sense for scum to try and rile up Geript for no reason? On February 09 2014 10:58 Corazon wrote:On February 09 2014 10:47 marvellosity wrote:
Maybe if Palmar does non-geript or better-geript things and rayn tells me where to look, we can get a good lynch. We could always lynch Palmar for going after Geript, because attacking Geript is a pretty easy thing to do as scum. Cora do you want to vote Palmar? Not yet. I'll give Palmar some more time to do something useful. You think he's scum though right? On February 09 2014 15:09 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2014 14:52 Corazon wrote:On February 09 2014 11:51 Grackaroni wrote:On February 09 2014 11:49 Corazon wrote:On February 09 2014 11:46 Grackaroni wrote:On February 09 2014 07:57 Corazon wrote:
Yeah I really don't feel like defending myself. I'm just gonna wait for Yamato to reply to my message.
Btw, you guys should look into Palmar's vote of Geript. Wouldn't it make a lot of sense for scum to try and rile up Geript for no reason? On February 09 2014 10:58 Corazon wrote:On February 09 2014 10:47 marvellosity wrote:
Maybe if Palmar does non-geript or better-geript things and rayn tells me where to look, we can get a good lynch. We could always lynch Palmar for going after Geript, because attacking Geript is a pretty easy thing to do as scum. Cora do you want to vote Palmar? Not yet. I'll give Palmar some more time to do something useful. You think he's scum though right? Where did I say that You've been insinuating that he is scum/should be lynched.
Now, this line of questioning was actually quite decent and I was liking it from Grack, however, the follow up to this and his posting in general I found to be quite an unnatural flow of things. For instance:
On February 10 2014 00:30 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2014 10:36 marvellosity wrote:
It doesn't involve you simply trusting me, because it makes sense. It's the making sense part that's different from the blind trust part. Jeez :/
Anyway, the Cora thing. I didn't mind his big post like you did. I even saved it to talk about it but I decided not to. Essentially it seems pretty possible that he believes that what yamato did was genuinely misrepresenting him, even though what yamato said was actually totally fine. I *think* I'd expect a town-Cora to think that way more than a mafia-Cora, perhaps?
I expect a certain level of productivity from him though which I've not really seen so far. So that mini-read will only get him so far. Can you elaborate on this? Why did you think that post is more indicative of town-cora? After all of the questions probing Corazon's actions, Grack should have had an assumption of how Cora was playing the game at that point, who he wanted to vote etc etc. Yet, none of this was followed up on AT ALL for the entire day. Instead, random questions regarding what Marv thought of Cora's alignment were used instead. Now, the cora wagon was gaining a lot of traction and based on interactions with other players and Cora, Grack should have a slightly more informed opinion of him by now than nothing. This is where things get a little disconnected. Grack never mentions Cora EVER again. Like... not at all anywhere in his entire filter. He see's the wagon and says "probs bus lolol" which is odd in itself because the initial reaction of most people is to think "oh maybe he is town after all" and then decides to vote random people like VA (who he was agreeing with in reads) and Risen who he had no idea about.
When I questioned him he came out with this:
On February 10 2014 10:36 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 10:11 Holyflare wrote:On February 10 2014 10:01 Grackaroni wrote:
I always argue with my scum reads. It's really helpful honestly. Grack, why did you take no stance on Cora the entire game despite him being the main wagon, the most voted player, looking scummy and being town? You even questioned his intentions with Palmar here: On February 09 2014 11:46 Grackaroni wrote:On February 09 2014 07:57 Corazon wrote:
Yeah I really don't feel like defending myself. I'm just gonna wait for Yamato to reply to my message.
Btw, you guys should look into Palmar's vote of Geript. Wouldn't it make a lot of sense for scum to try and rile up Geript for no reason? On February 09 2014 10:58 Corazon wrote:On February 09 2014 10:47 marvellosity wrote:
Maybe if Palmar does non-geript or better-geript things and rayn tells me where to look, we can get a good lynch. We could always lynch Palmar for going after Geript, because attacking Geript is a pretty easy thing to do as scum. Cora do you want to vote Palmar? On February 09 2014 15:09 Grackaroni wrote:On February 09 2014 14:52 Corazon wrote:On February 09 2014 11:51 Grackaroni wrote:On February 09 2014 11:49 Corazon wrote:On February 09 2014 11:46 Grackaroni wrote:On February 09 2014 07:57 Corazon wrote:
Yeah I really don't feel like defending myself. I'm just gonna wait for Yamato to reply to my message.
Btw, you guys should look into Palmar's vote of Geript. Wouldn't it make a lot of sense for scum to try and rile up Geript for no reason? On February 09 2014 10:58 Corazon wrote:On February 09 2014 10:47 marvellosity wrote:
Maybe if Palmar does non-geript or better-geript things and rayn tells me where to look, we can get a good lynch. We could always lynch Palmar for going after Geript, because attacking Geript is a pretty easy thing to do as scum. Cora do you want to vote Palmar? Not yet. I'll give Palmar some more time to do something useful. You think he's scum though right? Where did I say that You've been insinuating that he is scum/should be lynched. What did you think of his responses and then why did you not portray those feelings to us so as to give us more information on the main lynch candidate? Also, why did you use a throwaway vote on risen with no explanation: On February 10 2014 03:44 Grackaroni wrote:
Yeah I give up for today. Risen safe lynch; best lynch NA.
##Unvote: VA
##Vote: Risen but then not push for his lynch, question him or argue with him (seeing as you just stated that arguing with your scum suspect is good) I think it will be easier if I just give my thought process for the day. I joined the game and read the thread. I didn't see anything I found very scummy, but Corazon was acting like an indifferent observer so I thought that would be good to pressure. (Not in a way that I think he is necessarily scum more that I want to see how he reacts and how other people would respond.) Then he wasn't really interested in talking so I moved on to Marv, who got pissy that I troll voted him and he wouldn't talk to me either. Then I figured Koshi was town and that nobody else was pushing Vayne too hard so I was ok lynching him. BUT then Vayne seemed like he genuinely didn't know anything this game which was really in contrast to last game where it seemed like he knew everything and told town nothing so I settled with Risen because safe + lazy. If it was a close lynch I would have moved my vote either on to Corazon or on to somebody else depending on the situation. Then a townie got lynched. And then I blamed Marv because Marv.
First of all, this bolded line does not fit with his reasoning whatsoever. If he thought, like he stated, that the votes on Corazon were most likely a bus then he would have had no problem with placing his vote on Cora because if the votes were closer he would have been on the lynch so why would bussing change that? (hint: because he knew cora was town)
Despite all this, there is evidence that his thought process does not align with his actions in the game. He doesn't want to vote cora (for no good reason). I ask him why he placed his vote on Risen at the time when he had been pressuring marv and thinks marv is probably the most scummy, he said it was "safe". That doesn't make ANY sense as he did not pressure Risen or discuss him or talk to him the ENTIRE GAME. His safe vote should have been marv, yet, despite all that AND calling cora's lynch a bus, he says if the votes were closer he would vote cora OVER his reads on marv and DESPITE ALL THAT if he could he would lynch WoS over EVERYONE ELSE despite mentioning him NEVER in the game.
On February 10 2014 10:45 Holyflare wrote:Ok then. Explain your town read on koshi to me please because all I get from your filter is Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 03:05 Grackaroni wrote:
I think lynching Koshi is a bad idea. and Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 08:19 Grackaroni wrote:On February 10 2014 08:18 Koshi wrote:
How sure are you that I am town Grack? Koshi totes town. Also, in regards to your thought process. You stated: Show nested quote +On February 10 2014 06:52 Grackaroni wrote:On February 10 2014 06:45 geript wrote:##vote GrackaroniFirst off, we can all agree that Grack's been useless this game. Unfortunately, this isn't alignment indicative of him though. There are some good reasons for him to be scum. + Show Spoiler [filters] +1.He's objectively weird but no one has been interested in discussing him. Like he's gotten a complete free pass. 2. The Cora lynch has too much steam. There are way too many people ok with lynching Cora right now for it to end up being a good lynch. On top of that, Cora reacted to Palmar exactly how I had which should be a good litmus test. 3. Grack has bounced around to 3 different people with completely shitty reasons every time. 4. We get to avoid super awkward situations like happened in LXIV. 5. Grack has more swagger as town than he has as scum. Hell he's voted for himself both times as town (once was for mayor). He's also far more negative as scum than he is as town. It's weird to try and describe, but I'm not seeing any sense of confidence coming out of Grack. Most of his statements this game have been qualified: "I do think it could be" "I might be ok" "But you haven't done anything to try to solve the game?" There's a serious disconnect between these posts and how I read him in his other town games. 6. This is weak, but in his scum games he also uses quotes more than he does as town. It feels like his lack of confidence wants him to pad his filter with extra space. That's the bullet point. Rayn/VE your thoughts. This is the only part I'm going to address. I'm definitely less confident about being correct with reads this game; I don't have anyone I really want to lynch too strongly except maybe Marv but he's actually made himself hard to read by just refusing to chat with me. If marv was the only person you felt it necessary to address when someone talks to you then why was your throwaway vote on risen and NOT on marv? They both would have meant equally as little but then your vote would be on the person you thought was scum? As well as this you JUST stated that: Show nested quote +If it was a close lynch I would have moved my vote either on to Corazon or on to somebody else depending on the situation. After everything you have said about marv after placing your "safe" vote onto risen why would cora be your chosen candidate if the lynch was any closer??
this doesn't even line up with what he said within the previous day
This is the only part I'm going to address. I'm definitely less confident about being correct with reads this game; I don't have anyone I really want to lynch too strongly except maybe Marv but he's actually made himself hard to read by just refusing to chat with me.
in response to geript's poo case.
yet he states a post-lynch insight:
On February 10 2014 09:24 Grackaroni wrote:
I gave absolutely no opinion on Cora whatsoever. That credit is mine.
On February 10 2014 09:34 Grackaroni wrote:
Lulz Yamato. I probably should have known but Marv was super confident he would rage and that's just hard to ignore.
Now, here is where some real scum motivation appears. Rayn/Marv/Palmar are up for lynch. It's like a free night kill if all are town and Grack had already stated that those 3 would appear (yeh it was obvious anyway) but even so, who would scum want to keep around for later in the game? The answer is the people that have town reads on yourself or your scum buddies.
Now, rayn spotted this before he got lynched and this is what's very suspicious:
On February 11 2014 11:36 Grackaroni wrote:
##Vote: Rayn
Sorry Palmar is the more entertaining player.
On February 12 2014 00:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Town -> Scum
raynpelikoneet
Palmar/marvellosity
yamato77
Risen
Holyflare
Grackaroni
Koshi
WaveofShadow/VisceraEyes
Oatsmaster
geript
VayneAuthority
On February 12 2014 01:02 Grackaroni wrote:
I kind of like Risen's Palmar point though.
On February 12 2014 01:04 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 01:02 marvellosity wrote:
Risen didn't have a Palmar-point beyond "paranoia for no reason" No he's right. If Palmar is scum then he can make it to the end without having to do much else of anything this game; we are pretty much accepting he is town at that point.
On February 12 2014 01:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Maybe i need to re-think about my Grack read. As soon as i call him town and Palmar is unsure he is wanting to lynch Palmar over me for some arbitary reasoning.
On February 12 2014 01:06 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 01:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:On February 12 2014 01:04 Grackaroni wrote:On February 12 2014 01:02 marvellosity wrote:
Risen didn't have a Palmar-point beyond "paranoia for no reason" No he's right. If Palmar is scum then he can make it to the end without having to do much else of anything this game; we are pretty much accepting he is town at that point. So do you think he is mafia then? probably not.
On February 12 2014 07:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2014 07:19 Holyflare wrote:On February 12 2014 07:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am not sure what you are trying to do Holyflare. Are you trying to look better or find mafia? well i'll tell you names now; grack/wos/geript/va expect walls of text with all their names on it soon so if i've found mafia (i'm pretty sure i have) then what else can i be doing in my downtime from writing the cases other than reasoning out this lynch that's happening now? It doesn't really matter who we lynch now because it's irrelevant because we are all town. The discussion about who has 1% chance or who has 0% chance of flipping scum is fucking retarded. It's like having 3 blue claims in a game where there can be 3 blues and all you can talk about is who is fakeclaiming if someone is. lol. But yeah, those 4 stand out for me the most too. Drop in Oats if Vayne is somehow town (i think he could be, if he is just being dumb and refuses to do shit like he unfortunately does as town because he is just dumb).
This is the exact timeline of events that occured. Grack votes rayn > Rayn posts town read list and grack isn't low > Grack entertains idea of lynching palmar instead > rayn points it out > grack says maybe not palmar nvm.
This is ridiculously suspicious. He doesn't even say WHY he wants to vote rayn other than palmar is the more entertaining player. He brings up points that could mean palmar is scum but then it's like "no, rayn it is because... nothing"!
Grack also says that VA is scum because of the events that took place with Marv/VA and he says VA likes to bus etc etc but then today wants to lynch ME over VA with this post:
On February 12 2014 13:23 Grackaroni wrote:
##Unvote: Oatsmaster
##Vote: Holyflare
I guess we can table this for the time being. I agree with Vayne regardless of whatever weird contradiction he had in his mind earlier and whatever weird town slipping Yamato might have done if he is scum.
On February 12 2014 13:24 Grackaroni wrote:
I'll explain tomorrow, but he is our best bet.
On February 13 2014 03:43 Grackaroni wrote:
I don't think I could explain why HF is scum in a way that I could explain another person being scum but it doesn't mean I'm not confident enough to trade 1 for 1 with him all the same.
He says VA is scum and wants to look elsewhere for the rest, notices i'm afk and people are posting stuff about me, jumps on top of me saying he'll explain why i'm scum but then doesn't, flip flops when voting for VA all the time, happy to wagon me for no reason whatsoever.
##Vote Grackaroni
Didn't need meta but leaving this here in case I need to look into previous games for whatever reason.
"SMB" Mini Mafia - Town
LXIV: The Restart - Town
Titanic 2 - Scum
Golden Sun - Scum
LXIII: Time to Die - Scum
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You were even the one that said you wanted to lynch the guy who was the worst at reading you.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
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EPT
