On January 21 2014 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am not even voting for him after his first clarification. Where did you get the idea that i am tunneling him?
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On January 21 2014 02:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have absolutely no idea why bumatlarge is voting for VE because he did just say "he did some stuff i find out to be scummy but then again i remember him doing same kinda stuff as town too".
I have no idea what his read on VE is because it's inconsistent.
Perhaps it's just a difference in interpretation, but you start grilling bumatlarge for being 'inconsistent' when I don't see one.
What, you even agreed with me in saying the case is wishy-washy. How can you call me out for "twisting his words" when you agree with me, because that was what i was saying before he clarified his case?
I agreed that it was wishy-washy, but I disagree with your statement that his reads were inconsistent. I think his 1., 2., 3. points were clearly points towards a VE scum theory, wishy-washyness aside. You were making it sound like he was going back and forth without a clear reason and then just randomly voted against VE without providing evidence.
On January 21 2014 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am not even voting for him after his first clarification. Where did you get the idea that i am tunneling him?
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On January 21 2014 02:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have absolutely no idea why bumatlarge is voting for VE because he did just say "he did some stuff i find out to be scummy but then again i remember him doing same kinda stuff as town too".
I have no idea what his read on VE is because it's inconsistent.
Perhaps it's just a difference in interpretation, but you start grilling bumatlarge for being 'inconsistent' when I don't see one.
What, you even agreed with me in saying the case is wishy-washy. How can you call me out for "twisting his words" when you agree with me, because that was what i was saying before he clarified his case?
I agreed that it was wishy-washy, but I disagree with your statement that his reads were inconsistent. I think his 1., 2., 3. points were clearly points towards a VE scum theory, wishy-washyness aside. You were making it sound like he was going back and forth without a clear reason and then just randomly voted against VE without providing evidence.
It's because he didn't provide clear evidence. You even agreed with me on that. Like he literally said "he could do this as mafia or he could do this as town". How am i twisting his words if i say he is saying "he could do this as mafia or he could do this as town"? I even pointed out where he did so - if you can't prove me wrong you can't say i am twisting his words. That's what i read from his post, what he meant was irrelevant because he later on explained it - it was that time, but i sure as hell was not twisting his words in any direction and i want you to explain why you are trying to say i did something i clearly did not do?
On January 21 2014 03:33 kushm4sta wrote: you shouldn't even worry about my alignment, just like I won't worry about rayn's fail wagon on me. I will be pretty solidly town by EoD.
Hi kush. Who do you think is scum and why? (yes I know I can open your filter but I don't want to, i want to have a new convo)
I am thinking VE is scummy based off of a few things:
1. Lots of early discussion about the two plans + Show Spoiler +
He talked a lot about the two plans and asked others about them, and said so many things about them that people were mixing up which plan he was talking about. Not necessarily scummy in and of itself, but a very easy topic to talk about if you don't actually want to start making reads on people
This seemed like another very easy thing to do, but in his accusation he doesn't really explain why it's scummy, just that "it's all bad." It's easy to attack someone for being obviously contradictory without actually calling them scummy, and that's what he did.
On January 20 2014 14:25 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Vote Wile E His little act about not knowing what a boxer is does not really jive with the claim. Add to that the fact that he claimed 5 hours into the game after being very clear about how he feels about boxers claiming, and it all just looks bad.
I also dislike the sentationalism in this, "his little act," etc., especially in combination with a lack of explanation as to why this means he's scum. It reminds me of Mocsta scum from when I played with him a year ago.
On January 20 2014 11:26 VisceraEyes wrote: It does NOT matter if scum figure out the setup before town does...in fact given the nature of this game that is pretty much a given. What DOES matter it's that we not tell them exactly what it is ON DAY ONE BEFORE WE GET ANY INFO OURSELVES, which is very possible if we have boxers claim.
Is it worth the risk? I'm starting to think not, but want other opinions.
Why do you think not?
I think scum.
I don't understand the question. Or the accusation.
On January 20 2014 22:36 VisceraEyes wrote: There isn't much to them. After reading through I can at least say that he weakly agrees that I look bad (though I don't know why) and he believes the boxer claim and he thinks other boxers should not claim.
I wouldn't mind some elaboration on his issue with me.
On January 20 2014 22:52 VisceraEyes wrote: Kish look me in the balls and tell me you don't think that as town if I don't believe a claim that I wouldn't vote for it if I think it is scum.
It is not dumb for scum to claim Named VT, they are supposed to claim SOMETHING other than Mafia, yes?
On January 20 2014 23:01 VisceraEyes wrote: Ski I'm literally ignoring your posts friend. If you have an actual accusation I'll respond to that.
On January 20 2014 09:23 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm KINDA okay with Boxers claiming.
On January 20 2014 10:01 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah I'm mostly indifferent to the matter. I can see the argument for it not being needed and it giving scum information, but I think it could help us in the future by 1) eliminating scum's ability to fake-claim it on the block and 2) forcing scum to decide now whether they want to fake-claim the role.
On January 20 2014 11:40 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm giving benefit of the doubt where that its concerned...I had to go look again at the setup to remember myself when it was first mentioned.
On January 20 2014 11:26 VisceraEyes wrote: It does NOT matter if scum figure out the setup before town does...in fact given the nature of this game that is pretty much a given. What DOES matter it's that we not tell them exactly what it is ON DAY ONE BEFORE WE GET ANY INFO OURSELVES, which is very possible if we have boxers claim.
Is it worth the risk? I'm starting to think not, but want other opinions.
Yes, let's talk MORE about these plans
On January 20 2014 22:36 VisceraEyes wrote: There isn't much to them. After reading through I can at least say that he weakly agrees that I look bad (though I don't know why) and he believes the boxer claim and he thinks other boxers should not claim.
I wouldn't mind some elaboration on his issue with me.
On January 20 2014 22:47 VisceraEyes wrote: Kish I'm open to suggestions. If you think someone is a better lynch then convince me. Its called playing Mafia! :D
On January 20 2014 23:04 VisceraEyes wrote: What do you think of bum kush? I liked rayns post on the matter, and agree he looks bad. What do you think?
Note the lack of reasoning for his agreement, but the suggestion that others should talk about it
6. "Giving up" on his Wiley scum read and switching to a more convenient target
On January 20 2014 23:09 VisceraEyes wrote: I think the timing is such that it is more likely to be a scum fakeclaim than town, but I'm not 100% sold on it. The more we talk about it, the more I can see a townie just not caring what he said earlier, and I guess it's less likely that scum would do something completely against what they previously went on record saying.
I can give Slam more time I guess.
##Unvote ##Vote bumatlarge
Read: The more people disagree with me, the more I think I should stop pushing for his lynch. I will now randomly vote for someone somebody else made a case on without any further reasoning.
Note that the entirety of this post is actually justifying why he is no longer voting for Wiley, and not at ALL why he is now voting for bumatlarge.
VE is scummy in tone, content, and voting patterns, and my top scum read now.
I have seen people make cases that say "this dude is town" and then vote for them. They are usually mafia, because mafia does not really want to call townies mafia as they already know they are accusing someone who they know is town - but they need to post something to not get lynched.
If someone makes a case that says "i think this guy is mafia but they could also be town" and votes for them my first impression is always "this case is bullshit because they don't even really think the other dude is scum".
Why am i supposed to not question a case that does not even imply the guy thinks the person they are accusing is mafia?
On January 21 2014 03:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Artanis i am not interested in talking with you if all you are going to do is troll the shit out of the game. This is not a game where i agreed on trolling at the start like the Really small mafia was. So please play the game.
Other than my last post I haven't trolled at all this game though. There was intention behind my posts. Apparently you're also not interested in finding out my alignment or trying to start conversation with me so I guess I'll just make my intention clear. ##vote Raynpelikoneet
In no way is it "entirely false". Suki points out multiple lapses in VE's thought process. You can change your mind, but throwing phrases out like, "that's dumb" or "I'm indifferent" are strong blanket statements to lay down. Clearly VE is either rapidly changing his mind throughout his posts, giving us no indication of where it's going, or he is not thinking his posts through, which he shouldn't be doing as town. I say point out that VE is capable of doing this as town.
There is nothing wrong in those quotes suki brought up. VE thinks kush's plan is bad and VE is not sure if claiming/not claiming Boxers is best play. Where is the inconsistancy? He does not change his mind anywhere.
Interpretation is key. I clearly mean "I think VE is scum, and the only thing making me reconsider is if he actually posts like this as town." I have played quite a few games with VE, but they were a while ago. All in all, I think Rayn misconstrued what I said here, an possibly purposefully. Townies do do this with analysis, because they want to be right, especially if an ego is present, and interpretation is where alot of analyses hit speed bumps. I do think Rayn is scum here though.
You said "i think VE is scum but i need to go back and look if he does this as town". That's exactly what you said. Did you go back and look at if he does that as town or not? Does he do that as town or not?
On January 21 2014 02:46 bumatlarge wrote: To be fair, I was not expecting all three initial posts to be completely taken out of context.
For the record I don't think bumatlarge is scum at this point.
My thought process: bumatlarge agreed with my initial case against VE. It was pointed out that my case was bad and I had mistakenly thought VE was talking about one topic when he was talking about two. Bumatlarge, having agreed with my post, was now coming under fire from Rayn who asked him to point out the inconsistency.
He then said, he was not expecting all three initial posts to be completely taken out of context. I then posted my townread on bum to back him up because I felt like Rayn was going to attack him on this point and I think it would have been a waste of effort.
In hindsight, Rayn was pressuring bum for answers but not accusing him of scum behaviour and there was no reason to have to back bum up.
On January 21 2014 03:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Artanis i am not interested in talking with you if all you are going to do is troll the shit out of the game. This is not a game where i agreed on trolling at the start like the Really small mafia was. So please play the game.
Other than my last post I haven't trolled at all this game though. There was intention behind my posts. Apparently you're also not interested in finding out my alignment or trying to start conversation with me so I guess I'll just make my intention clear. ##vote Raynpelikoneet
So you are calling me scum because i didn't counter-claim your mafia claim. Fucking terrible.
On January 21 2014 03:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Artanis i am not interested in talking with you if all you are going to do is troll the shit out of the game. This is not a game where i agreed on trolling at the start like the Really small mafia was. So please play the game.
Other than my last post I haven't trolled at all this game though. There was intention behind my posts. Apparently you're also not interested in finding out my alignment or trying to start conversation with me so I guess I'll just make my intention clear. ##vote Raynpelikoneet
So you are calling me scum because i didn't counter-claim your mafia claim. Fucking terrible.
I'm calling you scum because you're not engaging me in conversation when you have had a myriad of possibilities to do so which I can explain only from a scum point of view. You don't want me to get a correct read on you.
@Rayn 'twisting his words' was too strong a phrase to use. You misrepresented them might be a better choice of words? You stating that bum wasn't providing evidence against VE was incorrect, because he did provide evidence - again, minus the wishy-washiness.
Your point on people saying 'he could be mafia, but then he could also be town' is true and I generally see that as a scum tell. However, I did not get that feeling from bum and especially not so now after reading through some of his past filters.
On January 21 2014 03:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Artanis i am not interested in talking with you if all you are going to do is troll the shit out of the game. This is not a game where i agreed on trolling at the start like the Really small mafia was. So please play the game.
Other than my last post I haven't trolled at all this game though. There was intention behind my posts. Apparently you're also not interested in finding out my alignment or trying to start conversation with me so I guess I'll just make my intention clear. ##vote Raynpelikoneet
So you are calling me scum because i didn't counter-claim your mafia claim. Fucking terrible.
I'm calling you scum because you're not engaging me in conversation when you have had a myriad of possibilities to do so which I can explain only from a scum point of view. You don't want me to get a correct read on you.
I will engage you in conversation when you say something useful. Everything you have said is useless so far.
On January 21 2014 03:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Artanis i am not interested in talking with you if all you are going to do is troll the shit out of the game. This is not a game where i agreed on trolling at the start like the Really small mafia was. So please play the game.
Other than my last post I haven't trolled at all this game though. There was intention behind my posts. Apparently you're also not interested in finding out my alignment or trying to start conversation with me so I guess I'll just make my intention clear. ##vote Raynpelikoneet
So you are calling me scum because i didn't counter-claim your mafia claim. Fucking terrible.
I'm calling you scum because you're not engaging me in conversation when you have had a myriad of possibilities to do so which I can explain only from a scum point of view. You don't want me to get a correct read on you.
I will engage you in conversation when you say something useful. Everything you have said is useless so far.
So why don't you ask any questions to me? You seem completely uninterested in my alignment and are throwing down arbitrary barriers just to prevent a conversation from taking place, which points to you being scum.
On January 21 2014 02:46 bumatlarge wrote: To be fair, I was not expecting all three initial posts to be completely taken out of context.
For the record I don't think bumatlarge is scum at this point.
why did you feel the need to clarify that right now?
Because Rayn is tunneling him and twisting his words and I think it's unproductive.
Why would putting your townread on the record change any of that though?
I also find it ironic that you of all people are asking me this question.
On January 20 2014 22:23 kushm4sta wrote: Feels thrawn's town. wiley is town i think rayn is town i think VE is town balla is scummy for being a scumhunter extraordinaire yet doing nothing
Tell me, why did you feel the need to clarify that you felt all those people were town?
On January 21 2014 03:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Artanis i am not interested in talking with you if all you are going to do is troll the shit out of the game. This is not a game where i agreed on trolling at the start like the Really small mafia was. So please play the game.
Other than my last post I haven't trolled at all this game though. There was intention behind my posts. Apparently you're also not interested in finding out my alignment or trying to start conversation with me so I guess I'll just make my intention clear. ##vote Raynpelikoneet
So you are calling me scum because i didn't counter-claim your mafia claim. Fucking terrible.
I'm calling you scum because you're not engaging me in conversation when you have had a myriad of possibilities to do so which I can explain only from a scum point of view. You don't want me to get a correct read on you.
I will engage you in conversation when you say something useful. Everything you have said is useless so far.
So why don't you ask any questions to me? You seem completely uninterested in my alignment and are throwing down arbitrary barriers just to prevent a conversation from taking place, which points to you being scum.
Why are you stupid? Is this another "i wanna lynch rayn reardless of his alignment" bullshit type of thing?
Here, let me anwer your posts (which i could have easily done):
On January 20 2014 09:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Hey guys. I'm Mafia. What roles did you guys get?
I don't have time for your stupid games. Go do something that finds us mafia.
No I'm not happy, because other than refusing to engage me in conversation you're now also attempting to destroy town atmosphere. I have found scum in you, and you are who I want to lynch.
On January 21 2014 04:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote: No I'm not happy, because other than refusing to engage me in conversation you're now also attempting to destroy town atmosphere. I have found scum in you, and you are who I want to lynch.
I already said i do not care to engage in conversations with you before you say something useful. You are calling me mafia because i am supposed to start conversations with us two. Why? Why is it my job to do so? Why do i need to start question you about anything when there is nothing going on in the game and you make an obvious joke thats nothing alignment indicative?
Specifically what's the problem? Should I respond to the case? I mean one of the quotes you ascribe to me is one of suki's, does that change anything about your case?
EPT
